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Old May 01, 2011, 01:14 PM // 13:14   #1
Hymn
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Default Virgorous Spirit used during FoWSC

Is there any possibility to change/remove this skill from a UA, considering the fact that 100b/vos melees hit mobs in just 1 hit. I personally don't see it as an effective anti-pressure skill considering the fact the only time I really use it is when the team is at forest already and casting it only on MT so he would get a heal-per-cast.

Would like to hear your comments and suggestions as well.
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Old May 01, 2011, 01:29 PM // 13:29   #2
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Honestly I find it to be pretty useless, it can easily be subbed in with Dismiss Condition or pretty much anything else. I personally have not ran it in my build since my first few runs as a UA.

TBH Heal Party isn't needed if you're confident enough, I take out Vigorous Spirit and Heal Party out for Selfless Spirit and Heal Other/ Jamei's Gaze, its a good red for bad situations and IMO just better.
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Old May 01, 2011, 02:31 PM // 14:31   #3
Slaphead Monk
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Depending on how good your MT is, the entire UA bar is pretty much redundant. there shouldnt be very much cleanup to do anyway, and Seed Of Life if anything is something you should drop. half of the pug UAs ive seen enjoy putting seed on the tank whilst he's balling, which can pull aggro and whipe you. If you're confident in your tank/team, run Mo/P with 11 heal, 11 divine and 8 in command (cons put this up to the 9 breakpoint). Bring Cant Touch This and Fall Back instead of heal party (healing tanks to over half hp is pointless- they function better at half) and Vigorous Spirit (shouldnt be much cleanup) and then if you want to, finish him! or ymlad instead of seed. you shouldnt need to be redbarring. people either need powerheals from patient + dwaynas, or theyre better off dying + being ressed at max with UA - redbarring someone with heal other/gaze is just a waste of energy. Hope this helps
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Old May 01, 2011, 02:45 PM // 14:45   #4
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Run your own build you can heal with. AS long you can heal with it no one should have anything to nag about it.

Last edited by Tripolityx; May 01, 2011 at 03:19 PM // 15:19..
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Old May 01, 2011, 04:03 PM // 16:03   #5
ele kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripolityx View Post
Run your own build you can heal with. AS long you can heal with it no one should have anything to nag about it.
i do think UA shloudt be brought as a fast res. nevertheless monk isnt really necissary in fowsc, can be ran without(just takes a little longer)
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Old May 01, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ele kid View Post
i do think UA shloudt be brought as a fast res. nevertheless monk isnt really necissary in fowsc, can be ran without(just takes a little longer)
Don't really think bringing UA or not was under debate even from the person you were quoting. Teams expect you to bring UA. Its the best skill to use for a monk in this particular speedclear.

Last edited by Ok Dont Panic; May 01, 2011 at 04:40 PM // 16:40.. Reason: spelling
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Old May 01, 2011, 03:38 PM // 15:38   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaphead Monk View Post
Depending on how good your MT is, the entire UA bar is pretty much redundant. there shouldnt be very much cleanup to do anyway, and Seed Of Life if anything is something you should drop. half of the pug UAs ive seen enjoy putting seed on the tank whilst he's balling, which can pull aggro and whipe you. If you're confident in your tank/team, run Mo/P with 11 heal, 11 divine and 8 in command (cons put this up to the 9 breakpoint). Bring Cant Touch This and Fall Back instead of heal party (healing tanks to over half hp is pointless- they function better at half) and Vigorous Spirit (shouldnt be much cleanup) and then if you want to, finish him! or ymlad instead of seed. you shouldnt need to be redbarring. people either need powerheals from patient + dwaynas, or theyre better off dying + being ressed at max with UA - redbarring someone with heal other/gaze is just a waste of energy. Hope this helps
Agreed there have been multiple FoW runs that the UA has left and as the Quality of the MT has been good enough the team has still completed the run from Forge onwards without a monk.
HOWEVER this is PUG runs we are talking about the MT is usually a PUG and the standard of them is usually pretty low. So assuming that the MT is going to be bad is generally a good Idea for the monk

As for seed of life the same rule is in effect. I am of course assuming that you are talking about a PUG run. This means that you are going in with people of generally lower exp that a guild team. As the monk you should recognize this.
Seed of life in the wailing forest can be extremely useful especially with the high rate of fails that occur with the canyon pull. (Where the 100bs jump over the canyon to spike the wailing lords[quest] group)

The OP referred to using vigorous spirit. For each attack you gain hp. Or skill used etc. The idea of the spike is that the MT balls the group and the 100bs/VoS jump in and everything should die in 1. Giving them an enchantment (in the 100bs case) is going to make the shadow mesmers in forge reason to change target to use shatter enchantment on them which is going to make them lose more hp than they would gain. This being said in the case of VoS having an well timed cover enchantment could be useful so that VoS isnt stripped.

It all really comes down to what sort of team you are running in. A guild exp team doing t3 way would drop the monk all together. If the spike is clean enough. BUT with Pugs it should be the monks choice as to what build they feel comfortable with.

Infuse health can be very effective as a full health heal, with UA up it (should) fully heal any team member however if this member has agro using infuse will break the agro on to yourself

Air Of Superiority is nice in the same way it is on the spikers and MoP etc. Having the large numbers of mobs that die, you get a good chance to get lots of energy back and a instant recharge on all your skills. This can be particularly useful if things go wrong.

Heal Party- as MR said quite so plainly that healing a tank to above 50hp is useless this isnt always true. Again as I said before it depends on the quality of the tank. If the MT is less exp then having the odd heal when hp is down at 25% can save the day. If the main team is slow on clearing the forge while the MT is tanking the whole 360 agro it could very well be the case that heal party IS needed to prevent a fail. (This being said of course any party wide heal including Seed Of Life in this instance can keep the tank up if its used on the warriors when taking damage)

The main rule of monking is NEVER ever cast on the tank if he has agro) Seed of life may heal everyone to full hp for 5 seconds but after those 5 seconds everyone is going to start dying pretty quick
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Old May 01, 2011, 06:42 PM // 18:42   #8
Hymn
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Alright, thanks for the info.

So right now, this is the bar I'm running

Heal: 12+2
DF: 10+1
Command: 8

Dwayna's Kiss
Patient Spirit
<Optional space> (Been filled with Healing Ribbon; I'm sure you get it that I use this on the melees)
Cure Hex
"Fall Back!"
Heal Party
Selfless Spirit
Unyielding Aura

Last edited by Hymn; May 01, 2011 at 06:42 PM // 18:42.. Reason: Forgot to add Heal party
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Old May 01, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28   #9
LifeInfusion
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Vigorous Spirit is more for the Spiteful spirit/Empathy spam than anything, it's not required if your MT is any good.

Heal Party is generally useless if the tank is any good; the only other use is if you need to redbar people that are outside your aggro circle.

Last edited by LifeInfusion; May 01, 2011 at 08:30 PM // 20:30..
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Old May 01, 2011, 10:56 PM // 22:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion View Post
Vigorous Spirit is more for the Spiteful spirit/Empathy spam than anything, it's not required if your MT is any good.

Heal Party is generally useless if the tank is any good; the only other use is if you need to redbar people that are outside your aggro circle.
If you have warriors that are attacking themselves to death then we just proved the point that pugs are terrible. Ohwait.
Cure hex or spotless is quite a good one but again as LifeInfusion said it depends on the tank there should be no reason for 100bs/vos to get hexed but on the forge clean (360) this can happen a lot and the bridge pull when the 2 extra shadow beasts pop up. Dwaynas Kiss is fueled by hexes anyway. To put a minor heal on 30 hp per attack compared to the 50+ damage from SS or Empathy seems rediculous.

As for heal party, any tank can be good but there does come a point where 50% block +75%block + the armor can fail you and it's fow pretty much the buggiest elite area in the game. It doesn't hurt to have the back up of a quick 200heal.

Also as for your runes if you take a +3+1 divine headpeice for casting UA you can get slightly stronger heals. (Switching back to the healing headpeice after)
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Old May 02, 2011, 09:49 PM // 21:49   #11
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I agree with everything Slaphead and LifeInfusion said. HP is pretty much useless, vigorous spirit is mostly to counter empathy/SS, and big heals like infuse are useless since you can just UA (exception for lots of deaths and pugs who don't bring dp removal). I recommend:

Patient, dwayna's, cure hex, fallback, cant touch this, UA, vigorous spirit, optional

HP if nub tank (only use if he's ~30% hp).
Healing ribbon/infuse/etc for nub spike teams.
Evas/FH for good teams.
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Old May 03, 2011, 03:37 PM // 15:37   #12
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Ua-bar:
Infuse; Evas; Fh; Patient; cure hex; seed of life; Ua; gole

Or the Mo/P-bar.
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Old May 04, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11   #13
Hymn
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Just a question, is bringing "CTH!" really useful? There are only 2 touch skills at the main team side (Lightning Touch and Throw dirt [I've been to teams where MoP brings Foul Feast])
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Old May 18, 2011, 06:07 PM // 18:07   #14
Minimized Rook
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I'll just assume you said CTT!
That's incredibly handy at the worms in forest.
I used to play MoP a LOT and when we got a team that all knew what they were doing I simply did not use foul feast very much (well, a few times each run). Not getting the front end of a manly spike blind is a huge advantage.

What I used to do as mop with a 100B that was used to me and vice versa was just spike the worms (1grp, usually) while he has ctt. He used to put up all preps, get ctt and go in so mop didn't get interrupted. If that spike failed not being blind is still a huge advantage.

As for lightning touch, that shouldn't affect you team alot. The only person that should get hit by it is the main tank. He shoudn't even be targetted by that much, since it's a touch skill used by casters.

To summarise: CTT! prevents blind by worms wich is very, VERY handy.
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Old May 20, 2011, 02:37 PM // 14:37   #15
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Virgorous Spirit--- Never use it in fowsc but still have it on my bar for some reason.. Useless IMO
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Old May 21, 2011, 08:19 AM // 08:19   #16
Saru The Boss
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Bring Great Dwarf Weapon!
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Old May 21, 2011, 08:46 AM // 08:46   #17
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only problem then is splinter weapon..........
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Old May 21, 2011, 11:16 AM // 11:16   #18
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You use it when the rit isn't around, during griffs for example.
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Old May 27, 2011, 09:52 AM // 09:52   #19
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Well, in guild run you can almost take what you want if your MT and spikers know what to do. I play RoJ with some antihex and seed just for kicks.

But when in PUG run, you'd better pack some heal. I think that vigorous is plain stupid. Almost every PUG monk plays it because it's on f**king PvX :

- first HP is not needed except if your MT is newb in FoW
- GoLE : I play with 45 energy and I rarely switch to staff or high mana set, but it might be needed to fuel your HP if MT is a freshman.
- vigorous : gets shattered everything when mesmers are encountered

So, what's to use ? I play :

patient's spirit
dwayna's kiss
infuse
seed
cure hex
remove hex (I like two antihexes with PUGs)
YMLaD (good when berserker are chasing you after a fail spike)
UA

Unless major fail occurs (massive aggro steal, MT dying, whatever), no one should die.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 04:30 PM // 16:30   #20
San Arios
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dwayna's |patient |seed |cure hex |fallback |ee |ymlad |ua
working very well if u got a not oo bad team (80% u got a team whos good enough)
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