Sabway vs. Discord - Guild Wars Forums

Seventh_Samurai · Jul 15, 2008, 05:13 AM

I'm looking for some insight on the pros and cons of each build for HM Vanquishing. Both builds are well regarded, and I'd like to hear an option on both from someone who has played with heroes set up for both. Mainly I'm wondering about speed, versatility, and ease of play. I also have a few more specific questions:

As both build use a MM, lack of corpses seems to affect both, but it seems this would affect sabway more than the discord spam. Is this the case?

Is sabway better for some areas, and discord spam more suited for others? Or does one seem pretty much better overall?

It seems like the discord build is a little more dependent on the class of the player, which is preferably a Necro, or an Assassin/Necro with popular variants using Assassin's Promise. If you're not N/A or A/N (and instead */N), does it still work well?

I'm not here to bash either build, or start a flame war, I'm just curious about what people think of both builds.

Thanks

P.S. - Links for Discord and Sabway

Ultima pyromancer · Jul 15, 2008, 05:24 AM

Well although i haven't got round to using Discord, i have been using sabway for a while now.

I found that sabway is great against melee, but the lack of hex removal can sometimes become a problem.

Mainly it's degen that kills sabway. But looking at Discord, it seems to also lack hex removal, but the damage looks more consistent than sabway.

zelgadissan · Jul 15, 2008, 05:32 AM

Discord works great for just about any non-monk caster (class X/A) since [Assassin's Promise] fits the hex and [You Move Like a Dwarf!] fits the condition, then the class can move on to spiking, hexing, whatever that class does. Only reason I say non-monk is that they probably use their elite to, you know, heal or prot.

So basically - melee, take Sabway for [Barbs], [Mark of Pain], etc. Caster with secondary assassin, take Discord. If you've got a build you love and don't want to switch it up - which is generally the way I am - Sabway offers much more flexibility in your own build.

Master Necromanz · Jul 15, 2008, 05:39 AM

take discord, but why do you start this thread, try it first and then make a thread about this. discord is safer and better in dmg dealing. I have vanquished and done many HM missions with discord...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Discord works great for just about any non-monk caster (class X/A) since [Assassin's Promise] fits the hex and [You Move Like a Dwarf!] fits the condition, then the class can move on to spiking, hexing, whatever that class does. Only reason I say non-monk is that they probably use their elite to, you know, heal or prot.

So basically - melee, take Sabway for [Barbs], [Mark of Pain], etc. Caster with secondary assassin, take Discord. If you've got a build you love and don't want to switch it up - which is generally the way I am - Sabway offers much more flexibility in your own build.

Melee take racway, war/para(/ranger)/assasin /dervish in my opinion.

Zidane Ortef · Jul 15, 2008, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultima pyromancer

Well although i haven't got round to using Discord, i have been using sabway for a while now.

I found that sabway is great against melee, but the lack of hex removal can sometimes become a problem.

Mainly it's degen that kills sabway. But looking at Discord, it seems to also lack hex removal, but the damage looks more consistent than sabway.

Sabway is not a set build you can make small changes and modify in your own way. When they updated Hero AI for [Dwayna's Sorrow] and [Feast for the Dead] i started to use this as my MM bomber.

[Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Jagged Bones][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet of Lost Souls][Feast for the Dead][Cure Hex][Resurrection Chant]

This takes care of most hex problems you run into and provides some minor healing as well.

Seventh_Samurai · Jul 15, 2008, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Necromanz

take discord, but why do you start this thread, try it first and then make a thread about this.

Was hoping to avoid spending money to rune/equip heroes for both well, and, even if I did, it still takes time to really get to know each build.

Pleikki · Jul 15, 2008, 08:17 AM

Sabway works better in my opinion, vanquished whole tyria with it, tried discord in some areas but it didnt work best in some areas in factions etc

Johny bravo · Jul 15, 2008, 09:08 AM

Seems like Disord takes a little more effort to work well as you have to keep conditions AND hexes on targets to get the full effect. Very potent when you can though.

As for the hex problem I addressed that a bit in my sabway build by running the SS necro as an N/Me with hex eater signet and mantra of inscriptions. In addition I run other interupting signets (or sig of humility) and only SS and Insidous. With Mantra of inscriptions up she can pretty much spam skills on recharge which is usually like 3 interupts every 10s and AoE hex removal. Seemed to work very well, for me at least. I also found the loss of enfeeble and barbs had a minimal effect on how fast I moved, I did miss barbs every once and a while though.

DarkSpirit · Jul 15, 2008, 10:32 AM

I have tried both sabway and discordway extensively and I must say that discordway can be superior in both defense and offense. You can bring hex removal if you want too, but discord kills so quickly and has so much healing that degen hexes dont bother me anymore, unless I am playing in areas with dangerous hexes. Discordway can also do quite well even without minions.

BUT discord is only 1 skill and there are many variations of discordway ranging from the very good to the terrible. Sabway, however, is quite well known and its variations tend to be smaller.

[Healer N/Rt;OAhjUoGYIPxM1wwcyJNrqjzkLA]
[MM Protect N/Mo;OANEUshd95EzqCohqa9IgY02JA]
[Curse N/Rt;OAhkUoG4BGqTMrMgIsD7uhp0kaD]

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=39

If you are a physical attacker and you plan to bring physical henchies, then adapt the Curse N/Rt above to Channeling and bring [[Splinter Weapon] instead. If your character doesn't bring a hex, it maybe good to bring Eve, Lo Sha, or another hench that carries hexes/conditions, just in case your Curse N/Rt dies, the target can still be hexed for discord to work.

This discordway does even better if you use a necro character. This is what I use on my necro:

[AP Necro;OAdTYwD7VqM4G0OYXMmcBCRY3BA]
...and replace the Curse N/Rt above with a Putrid Bile N/Rt:
[Putrid Bile N/Rt;OAhjUoGYITxMKgDTTOSTUbVVJXA]

If you have access to a 6 necro heroes team, discordway can also be extended to form a more powerful team. Discordway is also easy to use because the AI knows to wait for both a condition and a hex before they use Discord on the target. When the target is hexed and has a condition, you can notice your team spikes it with Discord and the target's life goes down very quickly even in HM.

Bloodseeker · Jul 15, 2008, 10:35 AM

Discordway works much better, i have played both builds you mention and in my experience Discordway always turned out better, look under variants though, those builds are better than the main.

Tyla · Jul 15, 2008, 10:41 AM

@DarkSpirit:

I don't necessarily need Signet of Lost Souls as Soul Reaping is already imbalanced enough to keep my energy maxed. [[weapon of warding] = awesomesauce.

Anyway, Discord can be put in and is only one skill making it a variable instead of a completely different build.

DarkSpirit · Jul 15, 2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

@DarkSpirit:

I don't necessarily need Signet of Lost Souls as Soul Reaping is already imbalanced enough to keep my energy maxed. [[weapon of warding] = awesomesauce.

I would say the need for SoLS depends on the area. Certain parts of certain areas may have creatures that dont leave corpses (e.g. Djinns) so having SoLS would help.

I have weapon of warding on one of my discord necros, in my 6-necro heroes version. But on the 3-heroes version with Herta's [[Ward against Melee] (in NF and EOTN), that is already enough, and with Aegis, WoW is not really necessary unless you plan to vanquish in Factions or Prophecies.

Quote:

Anyway, Discord can be put in and is only one skill making it a variable instead of a completely different build.

I know, which is why there are many versions of discordway that range from the very good to the terrible. A good workable Discord build should have more than 1 character, in the team, with a spammable hex and more than 1 character with a spammable condition skill.

In the version that I posted above, which is modified from the official version in pvxwiki, the healing is spread across 2 characters. This is because Discord has such a short recharge and high damage, that you dont really need other damage skills. Sabway, however, has it all on 1 character which means if that character dies, there goes your spike healer.

Master Necromanz · Jul 15, 2008, 11:47 AM

I as necro take also a discord build, foes are in so few seconds death! I love it.

-Lotus- · Jul 15, 2008, 11:48 AM

both work well although i prefer discord. Its the most flexable build ive ever played with, almost every skill is optional. and its only dependant on the player to apply a condition, hex and call a target, its obviously a plus to be /A, but really any class is fine.

Discord can be run however you feel like playing. from some sabway-ish MM/Curses/healer to smiters to wards to... whatever. you need to have some clue of how to design build though or youll be stuck using wiki crap all the time.

Carboplatin · Jul 15, 2008, 04:11 PM

hymm i would like to try out this discord build, but i play mostly a paragon.

i would probably end up dropping the imbagon bar and pick up some conditions and hexes to test it out.

anyone got experience with
1 para
3 discord builds?

Accursed · Jul 15, 2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Langdon

hymm i would like to try out this discord build, but i play mostly a paragon.

i would probably end up dropping the imbagon bar and pick up some conditions and hexes to test it out.

anyone got experience with
1 para
3 discord builds?

You could possibly use a spear damage build with maybe [Assassins Promise], along with a hex/condition henchman[s]?

Washi · Jul 16, 2008, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

BUT discord is only 1 skill and there are many variations of discordway ranging from the very good to the terrible.

[Curse N/Rt;OAhkUoG4BGqTMrMgIsD7uhp0kaD]

Talkin about bad builds. Seriously, 4 attributes and all are important, this cant work well.

I myself prefer sabway since my para works well with curses necro and splinter on my n/rt. I tried discord and it is very good but I would have to drop imbagon build for it to work really, really good.

DarkSpirit · Jul 16, 2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

Talkin about bad builds. Seriously, 4 attributes and all are important, this cant work well.

I myself prefer sabway since my para works well with curses necro and splinter on my n/rt. I tried discord and it is very good but I would have to drop imbagon build for it to work really, really good.

Actually it does and you can still tweak the build to bring Splinter Weapon if needed.

Although why would anyone even use sabway for an imbagon when he can just use Rac's build, which is designed around an imbagon in the first place?

Master Necromanz · Jul 16, 2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Langdon

hymm i would like to try out this discord build, but i play mostly a paragon.

i would probably end up dropping the imbagon bar and pick up some conditions and hexes to test it out.

anyone got experience with
1 para
3 discord builds?

Take Rac's heroes build and you as imbagon. Can vanquish almost evrything.

Washi · Jul 16, 2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Although why would anyone even use sabway for an imbagon when he can just use Rac's build, which is designed around an imbagon in the first place?

Because I don't like Rac's build. It's very good but it is not flexible. I love to play with my builds, I tweak them for almost every area and Sabway is great for that.