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Old Jan 26, 2012, 07:28 PM // 19:28   #1
JoshuaRAWR
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Default Ritualist or Necro (For a beginner)

Hello everyone! Not long been playing guildwars, however i'm very familiar with MMO's, at some point in time i'd like to start farming for the HoM titles & Such as well as gold etc.

After doing some research i've narrowed the choices down to either a Ritualist or a Necromancer, however with my lack of knowledge on guild wars inparticular, i'm uncertain on what would be more user friendly for someone new to the mechanics the game has to offer.

I adapt fairly quickly, so i feel either is a suitable choice for me, but i'm just not sure what would be more viable for what i'm after.

Mostly with Farming gold for the HoM's & such, that's all i'm really after, i don't intend to do any PvP or anything.


All and any advice is greatly appreciated. Cheers in advance! I look forward to reading the replies.


(Edit: I did the tournament zaishen thing where i got 10 keys for free and managed to sell them for 55k, so if i need money and such, i've got 55k to work with).

P.s please also don't think i'm asking for the best class to farm with! As i said i'm familiar with MMO's and know that each class is capable of different things, i did read the forum rules, i'm just curious as to what people would feel would better suit me given what i'm after, as i'm not familiar with the game.

Last edited by JoshuaRAWR; Jan 26, 2012 at 07:30 PM // 19:30..
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 08:21 PM // 20:21   #2
Gabs88
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Necro and Rit is pretty much equal classes in the current state of the game. Neither has a clear cut advantage over the other and they're both allright but not exceptional in any way. Ritualists can farm in the current state, necros don't have any good farming builds to brag about.

If going for 30 points in HoM you'd currently be much better off with an elementalist (cheaper armor and just got buffed) or assassin (really good farmer, really good allround PVE character). Those two are especially good for you as they don't rely on luxon \ kurzick skills to be effective. Since that can take a lot of effort to farm.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:36 PM // 21:36   #3
_Aphotic_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Necro and Rit is pretty much equal classes in the current state of the game. Neither has a clear cut advantage over the other and they're both allright but not exceptional in any way. Ritualists can farm in the current state, necros don't have any good farming builds to brag about.
Uhh..... this person hasn't played Necro... or really Rit.
55 Necro Farmer. One of the most versatile farming builds in the game (as well as one of the oldest to stand the test of time)...
Rits have two farming [builds]. Spirit Spammer (which ANY class is capable of), and VwK (comes in multiple forms).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
If going for 30 points in HoM you'd currently be much better off with an elementalist (cheaper armor and just got buffed) or assassin (really good farmer, really good allround PVE character). Those two are especially good for you as they don't rely on luxon \ kurzick skills to be effective. Since that can take a lot of effort to farm.
-30/50... any class gets you there...
-All classes have nearly-equivalent priced armor; all caster classes have slightly cheaper armor (crafting material prices fluctuate).
-Assassin's are o.k. at general PvE. Farming/SC's are where they shine.
-Yeah, in the short term, Luxon/Kurzick faction is pointless to farm. However, it's absolutely needed if you choose to create a Paragon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaRAWR View Post

After doing some research i've narrowed the choices down to either a Ritualist or a Necromancer, however with my lack of knowledge on guild wars inparticular, i'm uncertain on what would be more user friendly for someone new to the mechanics the game has to offer.
By far, Necromancer will be easier to grasp at the game's start than a Ritualist (unless you have tomes/unlocked skills to immediately run SoS). One of the biggest things to note is that you shouldn't over-specialize, and focus on 1-3 attributes at first.

IMO, In terms of simplicity of learning the classes (fresh start, new to GW)
(easiest top, hardest bottom)

Warrior/Elementalist
Necromancer/Monk (for PvE)
Dervish/Paragon
Mesmer/Ranger
Ritualist/Assassin (they can be easy, but easy to make mistakes as well)

Really though, just roll whatever you think is fun/suits you best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaRAWR View Post
Mostly with Farming gold for the HoM's & such, that's all i'm really after, i don't intend to do any PvP or anything.
EVERY class has it's own niche when it comes to farming. There is at least 1 form of Speed Clear (abb. "SC," farm high-end PvE with players often ending in fast times), and there are multiple solo farms for each profession.

If you want 30/50, you don't even have to touch a Speed Clear/Farm and still make it there effectively.

However, 50/50 is a completely different case... at this point, you'll have to choose to become "competitive" with your game. Because GW2 release is so close, there is no way you can casually make it to 50/50 (without RMT's, of course) before the relase. Choose your niche, solo-farm PvE a ton, do a lot of high-end PvE SC's (find a guild who does it), Power Trade the market, or PvP. All have their ups and downs, but ultimately, it just falls down to what you're good at/enjoy.


--------------------------------------------
tl;dr: (by short term, I implicate GW2 release), all are IMO
-General PvE/Easy to Learn/Most Adaptable:
Necromancer
Warrior
Elementalist
Monk
Dervish
-Short Term PvE/Hard to Learn/Extremely Adaptable (hard to master):
Ritualist
Ranger
-Short Term PvE/Easy to Learn/Hardly Adaptable:
Paragon
-Long Term PvE/Hard to Learn/Somewhat Adaptable (hard to master):
Assassin
Mesmer

And my vote's in for Necromancer~

Last edited by _Aphotic_; Jan 26, 2012 at 09:43 PM // 21:43..
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 11:06 PM // 23:06   #4
Gabs88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Aphotic_ View Post
Uhh..... this person hasn't played Necro... or really Rit.
55 Necro Farmer. One of the most versatile farming builds in the game (as well as one of the oldest to stand the test of time)...
Test of time? Hardly anyone uses it anymore. And for good reason. The anti-farm code makes it inefficient as mobs spread / stop attacking before they die. There are a few honorable exceptions such as the Halycon job but that is a highly luck based farm which recuires extensive knowledge of item prices to be able to spot the ones worth keeping.

And Ritualists are painfully booring because of their lack of versatility in general PVE builds. Spirit spamming is very effective no doubt but it's not fun to do it for months on end.

Quote:
-All classes have nearly-equivalent priced armor; all caster classes have slightly cheaper armor (crafting material prices fluctuate).
Elementalists and paragons need 4 pieces to get a HoM unlock. Other classes 5. You say that's not cheaper?

Quote:
-Assassin's are o.k. at general PvE. Farming/SC's are where they shine.
Assassins are great at general PVE, and especially as unlocking titles / HoM points. Because of their versatility on builds and lack of reliance on their elite skill.

Quote:
-Yeah, in the short term, Luxon/Kurzick faction is pointless to farm. However, it's absolutely needed if you choose to create a Paragon.
Or a dervish for that sake. But then again, Paragons suck. Yeah they have the ability to make a team near invulnerable but they are still not fast or efficient because of their ridicilously low DPS.


Quote:
IMO, In terms of simplicity of learning the classes (fresh start, new to GW)
(easiest top, hardest bottom)

Warrior/Elementalist
Necromancer/Monk (for PvE)
Dervish/Paragon
Mesmer/Ranger
Ritualist/Assassin (they can be easy, but easy to make mistakes as well)
Monks, Paragons and Rangers are inefficient characters in general PVE.

Necromancers are only left with AP caller builds. MM's are done just fine by heroes, SS is very fun but not very good. Icy veins and MoP nukers are only good when played with other players.

Mesmers are top tier but can be replaced effectively by heroes. Ritualists are downright booring to play after a little while. Warriors can be very efficient but is extremely hard to play right.

Dervish needs a high rank in Lux \ Kurz to be truely effective. But is a top tier choice.

Assassins have a ton of viable choices, are great farmers, are great in general PVE and generally are top tier everywhere.

Elementalists are extremely good with AP caller builds and have a ton of other builds available.
Quote:
Really though, just roll whatever you think is fun/suits you best.
Or listen to someone that knows what classes are fun after playing them a couple of months as well.
Quote:
EVERY class has it's own niche when it comes to farming. There is at least 1 form of Speed Clear (abb. "SC," farm high-end PvE with players often ending in fast times), and there are multiple solo farms for each profession.
Beeing able to farm does not mean it's comparable to more efficient professions.
Quote:
If you want 30/50, you don't even have to touch a Speed Clear/Farm and still make it there effectively.
Congratulations, you made a non biased and true statement for once.

Quote:
However, 50/50 is a completely different case... at this point, you'll have to choose to become "competitive" with your game. Because GW2 release is so close, there is no way you can casually make it to 50/50 (without RMT's, of course) before the relase. Choose your niche, solo-farm PvE a ton, do a lot of high-end PvE SC's (find a guild who does it), Power Trade the market, or PvP. All have their ups and downs, but ultimately, it just falls down to what you're good at/enjoy.
Wow, another one. Lets hope for a hat-trick.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------
tl;dr: (by short term, I implicate GW2 release), all are IMO
-General PvE/Easy to Learn/Most Adaptable:
Necromancer
Warrior
Elementalist
Monk
Dervish
-Short Term PvE/Hard to Learn/Extremely Adaptable (hard to master):
Ritualist
Ranger
-Short Term PvE/Easy to Learn/Hardly Adaptable:
Paragon
-Long Term PvE/Hard to Learn/Somewhat Adaptable (hard to master):
Assassin
Mesmer

And my vote's in for Necromancer~
Sorry, didn't happen. Better luck next time
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 12:34 AM // 00:34   #5
MisterB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Test of time? Hardly anyone uses it anymore. And for good reason. The anti-farm code makes it inefficient as mobs spread / stop attacking before they die. There are a few honorable exceptions such as the Halycon job but that is a highly luck based farm which recuires extensive knowledge of item prices to be able to spot the ones worth keeping.
I don't care for that linked PvX mainbar at all, but I still use N/Mo a lot. You can farm tons of stuff. I rarely use 55 health anymore, though. Mob spread and lack of attacking are mostly solved by sticking the mob to a wall and attacking. Rate of kill can be controlled if one is concerned with loot deletion, but I prefer killing more quickly.

I threw together a page showing what I like to use. It squanders energy, but groups of 3 and up feed it enough in Hard Mode, and smaller groups require less defense, and therefore less energy. Here's my contribution to the topic.

http://www.gwpvx.com/User:MisterB/My...s/N/Mo_135-155

Last edited by MisterB; Jan 27, 2012 at 12:44 AM // 00:44..
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 01:11 AM // 01:11   #6
_Aphotic_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaRAWR View Post
Ah! So much to take in!

I notice you've both said that assassins are very good farmers, if i were to pick up an Assassin as my class for farming and such, what would be an ideal route to take? All the abbreviations i'm seeing are too confusing for me to take in at once, i need things simplified in order for them to be taken in. (I'm Autistic).
Assassins are a great choice. It's my most used as of now.
Gabs pretty much summed it up for you, but don't overly rely on PvX.

The biggest thing is, though, is learning why those builds are effective. Sure, you know how to use them, but do you understand why?


----------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Test of time? Hardly anyone uses it anymore. And for good reason. The anti-farm code makes it inefficient as mobs spread / stop attacking before they die. There are a few honorable exceptions such as the Halycon job but that is a highly luck based farm which recuires extensive knowledge of item prices to be able to spot the ones worth keeping.
That's like saying no one Vaettir farms anymore because of anti-farm code and balled mobs, when in fact it is the most used mob-specific solo farm build in the game (SoS excluded).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
And Ritualists are painfully booring because of their lack of versatility in general PVE builds. Spirit spamming is very effective no doubt but it's not fun to do it for months on end.
Again, another biased quote, it's ignorant and as if you were stuck on SoS the entire time you played Rit; it's as if you completely rely on SoS in PvE when there are a plenthora of other builds you could potentially try.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Elementalists and paragons need 4 pieces to get a HoM unlock. Other classes 5. You say that's not cheaper?
Yet AGAIN, you display your ignorance in this regard. You don't need the headpiece of it's respective armor set in order to display it in the HoM.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Assassins are great at general PVE, and especially as unlocking titles / HoM points. Because of their versatility on builds and lack of reliance on their elite skill.
No, they aren't. They're damage is crap in comparison with other melee users. Using extensive chains isn't effective either. You're stuck in a meta-spamming Death Blossom in which Dervishes can output a whole lot more AoE damage and have far more utility and less squishiness than said build.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Or a dervish for that sake. But then again, Paragons suck. Yeah they have the ability to make a team near invulnerable but they are still not fast or efficient because of their ridicilously low DPS.
Dervishes are freed from PvE skills to run any build they want while still having high dps. I see how AoHM falls into place here, but there are far better dps options than Pious Teardowns.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Monks, Paragons and Rangers are inefficient characters in general PVE.
Again, you haven't played these in depth.
Monks allow for less utility healing on your heroes bars, and more damage, if you're good enough as a monk.
Paragons in general PvE get you to 30/50 quick due to it's one and only meta build. Invicibility > Dying with Good Damage on your char.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Necromancers are only left with AP caller builds. MM's are done just fine by heroes, SS is very fun but not very good. Icy veins and MoP nukers are only good when played with other players.
It's like saying Assassin's are stuck with Death blossom but still calling them effective. Necromancers already have 4x more diversity than the information on Assassin's you provided. You fail to see how Necromancers have the best natural energy management in the game and can pretty much run any build they want, albeit at the cost of pvx-effectiveness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Mesmers are top tier but can be replaced effectively by heroes. Ritualists are downright booring to play after a little while. Warriors can be very efficient but is extremely hard to play right.
That's heavily biased, everyone has their own play style. You seem awfully certain about yours being forced upon people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Dervish needs a high rank in Lux \ Kurz to be truely effective. But is a top tier choice.
Again, not true. The words of someone who's been trained and tempered by the ideals of PvX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Assassins have a ton of viable choices, are great farmers, are great in general PVE and generally are top tier everywhere.
No, in general PvE they are not great. As mentioned above earlier, extensive chains are pointless, leaving DB Spam and Crit Barrage (PUG Friendly) as their top tier builds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Elementalists are extremely good with AP caller builds and have a ton of other builds available.
No kidding. Any class is good with AP Caller.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Or listen to someone that knows what classes are fun after playing them a couple of months as well.
Yep, because your idea of fun is everyone else's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Congratulations, you made a non biased and true statement for once.
Quote yourself on that, and get back to me.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 08:23 PM // 20:23   #7
JoshuaRAWR
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Thank you for the reply At this current point in time, are there any farms that elementalists are capable of doing? I see this UW going around a lot, how are they for those sorts of things?
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 08:33 PM // 20:33   #8
Gabs88
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Eles are very popular in speed clears running ER-Prot builds.

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/Mo_ER_Infuse_Bonder

And also there are some emerging SC teams using them as spikers after the ele change but I'm not up to date on how that's catching on.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 08:43 PM // 20:43   #9
JoshuaRAWR
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That looks brilliant, thank you Gabs :-) I'll save that build and give it a go when i'm capable of doing so! Thanks!
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 09:37 PM // 21:37   #10
drowze
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My necromancer was my first character and she's still my favorite.
But both classes should give you a spot in a pug, and both have their place in some speedclears/farms.
A rit obviously has spiritspamming to solofarm, but in NM my necro can do that as well, and my 55 necro is still viable in some places (halcyon job HM for is one of my favorites).
Personally I don't enjoy playing my rit much, because when playing in a team, putting down spirits and spamming splinter weapon on melees tends to get boring really fast.
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 11:10 PM // 23:10   #11
JoshuaRAWR
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Ah! So much to take in!

I notice you've both said that assassins are very good farmers, if i were to pick up an Assassin as my class for farming and such, what would be an ideal route to take? All the abbreviations i'm seeing are too confusing for me to take in at once, i need things simplified in order for them to be taken in. (I'm Autistic).
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Old Jan 26, 2012, 11:18 PM // 23:18   #12
Gabs88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshuaRAWR View Post
Ah! So much to take in!

I notice you've both said that assassins are very good farmers, if i were to pick up an Assassin as my class for farming and such, what would be an ideal route to take? All the abbreviations i'm seeing are too confusing for me to take in at once, i need things simplified in order for them to be taken in. (I'm Autistic).
http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:A/any_PvE_Dagger_Spammer

This is the basic starter build for assassins. With that and it's variations you can easily beat the entire game with great effectiveness.

For farming you have a lot of different builds as assassin, but the majority of them revolve around the skill Shadow Form. And many are team builds using SF (Shadow Form) to run past enemies without getting killed.

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:A/any_Vaettir_Farm

If you check this site you can find the majority of the different builds:
http://www.gwpvx.com/PvX_wiki

Regardless of what class you choose though. The most importaint thing is to have a team build that fits it, you can find several on GWPVX. But for assassin i reccomend this one: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_RoJway a demonstration video of how to use it can be found at the bottom of the page. This is a good build for any melee character such as a warrior or dervish. As well as Paragons and Rangers with dagger spamming builds.

The meta section shows the most used builds, and the great section shows the highest rated ones. Sometimes a build can be Meta without beeing efficient enough to warrant a Great rating. An example of this is the Spiteful Spirits necromancer.

Last edited by Gabs88; Jan 26, 2012 at 11:20 PM // 23:20..
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 12:03 AM // 00:03   #13
JoshuaRAWR
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Brilliant, thank you every one for the input and advice!

I'll be saving those builds so i can look back on them from time to time should i start coming up with builds myself and need something to look back on

Thanks again!
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 02:00 AM // 02:00   #14
Why?
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So true, each class really does play very differently. I hate assassin builds because they come down to spamming numbers and ignoring what is going on.

Necros are the best class to start on and experience the game with. They have the best energy management, and you can run everything any other class does well enough to at least get the flavor of it. I played a necro for a few years straight, and playing the game with other characters really changes things.

I love my rit because I love spirit spamming. But they've got some other really cool spells in channeling as well. But a necro can do them almost as well and doesn't need to worry about energy.

Spellcasters play really differently than melee, especially warrior/sin. i'd choose necro to start every time, but what you might find more enjoyable could be different.
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Old Jan 27, 2012, 03:33 AM // 03:33   #15
Chthon
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To answer the question asked (rather than veer off into the minutiae of farming builds -- which is really a very tiny sliver of the game), necromancers are much more user-friendly for a new player than ritualists. Soul Reaping is a ton more useful than Spawning Power, and the necro skillset offers significantly better builds than the ritualist skillset if you don't have many skills or any elites.

Last edited by Chthon; Jan 27, 2012 at 05:16 PM // 17:16..
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