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Old Aug 23, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22   #1
zehly
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Default N/Me 4v4 Spike Build?

Just fooling around at work...

Would these skills produce any successful results?

1. Mantra of Resolve, [10,0,20], Inspiration
2. Life Siphon, [10,2,2], Blood
3. Conjure Phantasm, [10,1,5], Illusion
4. Power Drain, [5,.25,25], Inspiration
5. Channeling, [5,1,15], Inspiration
6. Phantom Pain, [10,2,15], Illusion
7. Energy Tap, [5,3,20], Inspiration
8. Life Transfer, [10,2,30], Blood

I've seen people in the random arenas do some SICK health degen with transfer and stuff. Just wondering how this would work
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Old Aug 23, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19   #2
Morganas
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Seems like every nec in the 4v4 arenas uses a build like this, and it's terrible.

10 degen is the maximum rate that health goes down. You can stack more to negate healing breeze and stuff, but breeze is terrible in pvp anyways.

I guess the *overall* damage to multiple opponents with this build is passable, but you've gotta taken into account the fact that a good many monks have hex removal or hex breaker, and almost all mesmers carry inspired hex.

The amount of healing negated by two spells, lingering curse and defile flesh, being cast on the main target, is far greater than any damage you can deal with this build to one target. A curses nec can negate equivalently far more damage from the enemy team, AND deal damage to boot.

Anything this build does damage-wise an elementalist or warrior can do better. Degen is important for combating some characters, and IMO every team should have some, but degen should always be a side benefit to a build that does something else, i.e. a curses nec or a migraine mesmer build, or any ranger who brings poison arrow and bothers using other skills.

Oh, and you'll also have energy problems up the wazoo, even with the energy management spells you have. Channeling does nothing outside of a pretty short range, and power drain is unreliable without slowing the enemies casting, and you often encounter teams with no slow casters like necs and eles, just monks warriors and rangers.

Last edited by Morganas; Aug 23, 2005 at 11:23 PM // 23:23..
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12   #3
The Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganas
Seems like every nec in the 4v4 arenas uses a build like this, and it's terrible.

10 degen is the maximum rate that health goes down. You can stack more to negate healing breeze and stuff, but breeze is terrible in pvp anyways.

I guess the *overall* damage to multiple opponents with this build is passable, but you've gotta taken into account the fact that a good many monks have hex removal or hex breaker, and almost all mesmers carry inspired hex.

The amount of healing negated by two spells, lingering curse and defile flesh, being cast on the main target, is far greater than any damage you can deal with this build to one target. A curses nec can negate equivalently far more damage from the enemy team, AND deal damage to boot.

Anything this build does damage-wise an elementalist or warrior can do better. Degen is important for combating some characters, and IMO every team should have some, but degen should always be a side benefit to a build that does something else, i.e. a curses nec or a migraine mesmer build, or any ranger who brings poison arrow and bothers using other skills.

Oh, and you'll also have energy problems up the wazoo, even with the energy management spells you have. Channeling does nothing outside of a pretty short range, and power drain is unreliable without slowing the enemies casting, and you often encounter teams with no slow casters like necs and eles, just monks warriors and rangers.
I can't garentee anything here due to the fact that I haven't done the actual testing, but I'm pretty sure the game calculates up to 24 negitive pips of hp degen. I know someone who has tested it, and I have heard multiple others agree with this idea (and I've heard plenty of people with the same opinion as you).
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 01:14 AM // 01:14   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Man
I can't garentee anything here due to the fact that I haven't done the actual testing, but I'm pretty sure the game calculates up to 24 negitive pips of hp degen. I know someone who has tested it, and I have heard multiple others agree with this idea (and I've heard plenty of people with the same opinion as you).
Simply count the pips on your health bar. Do you see 24 arrows?
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Old Aug 23, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45   #5
smurfhunter
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when you use an elite, you have to ask yourself, "what will this do for my build other than look cool"

in terms of life transfer, doing degen alone never killed anyone in a random pvp setting. almost everyone has a self heal, and although i admit it i once did go in there without one i got promptly owned by crippling anguish/conjure phantasm. otherwise most people can heal their way out of simple degen.

the time when degen is good is when you can do real damage, as well as degen them. this has the added effect of scaring some people into running away, unsuccessfuly, and giving you more free time at their expense.

back to life transfer. casting time is long, recharge is long, and amount of time it lasts is relatively short. you may want to consider this as a self heal, since the regen you experiance is really pretty nice, but this needs to be coupled with some actual damage to be effective.

i believe there is a preset build which utilizes a n/w with life trasfer. in this case *im guessing* it may work since you can use the degen/regen as a self heal as well as scare your opponent, but you are taking up an elite.

conclusion: needs some work if you plan on using this by yourself. otoh this could be really nice as a support caster, in a team arenas setting. (what with NR going up in tombs i doubt it would do you much good)

please note the above is my opinion, not a collection of 'facts'. please dont take what i say to the extreme and point out obvious flaws, im just telling you what i think...
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43   #6
Morganas
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I've played a degen build before, and it definitely caps somewhere around 10.

The game keeps track of additional pips of degen, but doesn't let it affect your health. Instead, that additional degen negates added regen, like breeze.
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 12:52 AM // 00:52   #7
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Location: my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganas
I've played a degen build before, and it definitely caps somewhere around 10.

The game keeps track of additional pips of degen, but doesn't let it affect your health. Instead, that additional degen negates added regen, like breeze.
wheres ensign to sort out this mess
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09   #8
arredondo
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Max effect is +/-10 pips. Any more is stored behind the scenes until it is needed to ward off an opposite effect. It's not too complicated. A person under a -7 degen on his health can be that way due to max Conjure Phantom (-5), Phantom Pain (-3), and Poison (-4). That's -12 degen, but only the max of -10 will be in effect. That is, until this target puts on a Healing Breeze that gives +5 regen. Then -12+5 = -7 degen.
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27   #9
ElderAtronach
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This is not a spike build. It's a dot build. There's a big difference.

If you wanted N/Me blood spike, go with

Shadow Strike
Vamp Touch
Vamp Gaze
Arcane Echo
Offering of Blood {E}
Life Siphon
Rend Enchants
Res Sig

Use arcane echo to copy whatever spell is needed at the time (i.e. at the beginning of a spike, arcane echo shadow strike for 200+ unblockable dmg, and when finishing off a runner, arcane echo vamp gaze for about 120+ unblockable dmg). OoB is a must have if you're running high blood, its the best Necro energy management skill that exists. Life transfer isn't worth the elite slot... you need OoB. You'll also want to keep Life siphon spread out over multiple targets so you get maximum effectiveness out of it. Use Rend when necessary, it'll help your teammates out.

Btw, don't wear any kind of Tormentor's armor, the presence and sheer number of E/Mo smiters is crazy so you don't want to risk running up against one and suffering extra damage cause of your armor.
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34   #10
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Location: my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElderAtronach
Btw, don't wear any kind of Tormentor's armor, the presence and sheer number of E/Mo smiters is crazy so you don't want to risk running up against one and suffering extra damage cause of your armor.
gah the best looking armor just has to be bugged doesnt it

so its true that max degen/regen is 10? i dont want to waste my life counting arrows i can barely distinguish anyway (lol)
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13   #11
Bast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfhunter
gah the best looking armor just has to be bugged doesnt it

so its true that max degen/regen is 10? i dont want to waste my life counting arrows i can barely distinguish anyway (lol)
Yes, it's true. You are capped to having +/- 10 life regen pips.

It must also be said that dotting a single person to -10 pips is a really bad waste of skill slots. Oh noes, -20 life/sec. Please no. Now, if you can dot an entire team to -10, then you're accomplishing something: mostly causing Monks to burn their energy and start picking who to heal. In 8v8, this is -160 life/sec spread out. A huge difference.

Regarding the armor: Stop playing dress-up Barbie and build for effectiveness. A weakness to Holy damage in the current game is a huge liability.
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Old Aug 24, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30   #12
knives
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Necro spike group: Max curses, 11 blood, rest in soul reaping.

3 n/mes, 1 mo/n (offering + w/e the monk wants to run). Suffering/Shadow of Fear + parasitic bond spam. Arcane Echo + Feast of Corruption on one target. Do it again. THen spam dark pact + vamp gaze on a target. In tombs a build ran similiar to this with only 2 n/mes doing it, and one was just a putrid one.
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