I love Guild Wars but I'm really starting to hate everything about Multi-player - Guild Wars Forums

Hand of Ruin · Jul 13, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

I'm so aggrivated right now... and I'm considering just uninstalling the game and returning it to the store or selling it.

I'm sick and tired of failing missions and quests not once or twice, but upwards of seven and eight times because people haven't figured out the most basic aspects of PvE...

Mainly idiots who charge into large groups of monsters then run back to the party looking for help, now aggroing a ton of monsters for everyone. Or these stupid eles who use AoE spells in aggro-sensative areas, effectively ruining our pull and setting off a horde of angry monsters!

I try to explain over and over but people just don't care, are too stupid to understand, or have no self-control whatsoever, and it's ruining the game for me. I suppose I need an experienced guild, but it seems without some shiny 15k set or a 100k axe, any good guild will turn their nose at me. I really miss when I could get things done with hench...

Clerihew · Jul 13, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Recently I have taken to going into most missions with hench.....

I think it is a shame if people have no options but to get into a really 'good' guild or play with just npcs. If only we could solve the leaver problem - I just spent 2 hours going into the first two levels of tombs and having people get nasty, fall out and leave. It's so frustrating.

But there's nothing that can be done but get on with it .

sinican · Jul 13, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

I understand the frustration...

you should consider at this point using Henchies for the bulk of your missions... in more cases then not in the majority of the missions henchies work as well if not better than most pugs...

this allows you to move at your pace and explore your character more... the henchies have some controlability...

before giving up try alternative means...

as far as returning the game... it wont happen game has to be sealed in order to return it... or else everyone would be doing it to get multiple account access keys for free

Hand of Ruin · Jul 13, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

I understand the frustration...

you should consider at this point using Henchies for the bulk of your missions... in more cases then not in the majority of the missions henchies work as well if not better than most pugs...

this allows you to move at your pace and explore your character more... the henchies have some controlability...

before giving up try alternative means...

as far as returning the game... it wont happen game has to be sealed in order to return it... or else everyone would be doing it to get multiple account access keys for free

Some missions really just can't be done with henches if I want to get the bonus, which I do for all missions. Right now i'm doing the Crystal Desert missions and I don't see how I can do it with henches. It'd be possible if I had the right elite skills, but in order to get those I have to progress further and beat these damned missions! It's like a catch-22.

sinican · Jul 13, 2006, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clerihew

Recently I have taken to going into most missions with hench.....

I think it is a shame if people have no options but to get into a really 'good' guild or play with just npcs. If only we could solve the leaver problem - I just spent 2 hours going into the first two levels of tombs and having people get nasty, fall out and leave. It's so frustrating.

But there's nothing that can be done but get on with it .

I really wish Anet wuld consider a 7-15 day downloadable trial of GW- via credit card even if the trial version were always a chapter before current... aka trial versions of Prophacies... then of factions when chapter 3 comes out...Not only would this benefit the comunity it would benefit Anet... i could be wrong but it doesnt seem like a bad idea...

this would allow people to get their friends at the least to try it out... its hard to find people in a virtual world that play like you... easier to get friends that you already get along with to come try the game out...

reason i say credit card trial is to not leave too much room for hack accounts... can track them by CC and only allow one trial per CC and the card can automatically be billed the retail price if not cancelled within the trial period

SpeedyKQ · Jul 13, 2006, 05:54 PM // 17:54

I don't know, PUGs get a really bad rap on the forums. I've pugged my way through both storylines several times, and haven't had too many problems. Once in awhile you get in weak groups and have to repeat a mission a few times, but not that often in my experience.

Clerihew · Jul 13, 2006, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Yeah, that's true. I have used PUGs for all my characters and made it through and had some great experiences. I hate people who call others noobs because - face it - we have all been new.

But people who deliberately leave a whole party high and dry because they have a minor problem with one player or because they are a jerk really make things tough. It is a futile complaint - but I still feel the need to air it from time to time.

Legendary Shiz · Jul 13, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Yeah I have done a lot of missions with PUGs, very few with henchies. I do quests and cap, and basically everything outside of missions with henchies.

But some missions you need a certain build, and a PUG MM is going to be better than your N henchie.

I think the only missions that are (nearly) impossible to do with just henchies is everything in RoF.

Hand of Ruin · Jul 13, 2006, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyKQ

I don't know, PUGs get a really bad rap on the forums. I've pugged my way through both storylines several times, and haven't had too many problems. Once in awhile you get in weak groups and have to repeat a mission a few times, but not that often in my experience.

For what reason would I have to lie or exaggerate? Not every PUG is terrible, however for missions that don't require just following a path and killing monsters, then yes I end up failing many times. I make mistakes sometimes too, but at least I'm able to recognize I made a mistake and learn from it. Not continue repeating it every time we restart and messing the entire mission up.

Not to mention I can't stand the impatient and crappy attitude I come across with most PUGs. When I try to explain something important, everyone just wants to run ahead and not listen, and then they can't understand what happened when the mission is failed, and they leave thinking that everyone else sucks and nothing was their fault.

Parson Brown · Jul 13, 2006, 06:07 PM // 18:07

I've PUGged through every mission in both games multiple times. Since I'm in a rather small guild, a full-guild group is a near-impossibility.

I've found my share of good groups and terrible groups, but I usually have fun. The only thing that really upsets me is when people leave at the first sign of trouble, especially since my favorite GW moments are when we snatch victory from the jaws of sure defeat!

Maria The Princess · Jul 13, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

i think you should join a active PVE guild.

now, i hardly ever do missions with random people. i go with henchman or with my guildies that are always happy to help, because i do same when someone needs help. when u playing with guildies its a copletely diffrent and better PVE experience then what you have seen so far:

1-u enjoy playing with NICE people,
2-you COPLETE mission,
3-you have fun makin friends and chat.

when we dont have 8 guildies avalble for a mission, we take rst henchman. with 3 good players and rest henchman its better then 8 bad players who keep flkaming each other.

Rent · Jul 13, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Hennnnnnnnnnchmen.

Absolutely everything in this game, both Factions and Prophecies, can be done with henchmen.

For the inevitable person who will post after me and say "lol wut about fow and uw and urgoz/deep" henchmen aren't even available there so just shut up.

Alternately, yes. Join a guild. There are several good guilds out there who will take pretty much anyone--you just have to find one which doesn't suck.

LoKi Foxfire · Jul 13, 2006, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Yeah I have done a lot of missions with PUGs, very few with henchies. I do quests and cap, and basically everything outside of missions with henchies.

But some missions you need a certain build, and a PUG MM is going to be better than your N henchie.

I think the only missions that are (nearly) impossible to do with just henchies is everything in RoF.

RoF is a joke. I henched the bonus and the entire mission by myself before now that they have had 3 pieces infused ever since long ago. Now if it was like before with uninfused henchmen, your statement would be true.

Also as far as not being able to hench any bonus, that is also false. I killed Glint with henchmen easily using the right build. I suppose it could be more difficult without all the elites but it also depends on your class.

Hell, I henched my way through ALL of Cantha during the prelaunch and killed Shiro. The only mission that was too hard to hench was Vizunah square because you can never ressurect the other team.

Ken Dei · Jul 13, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

The only time you should ever do a pug is if you can't beat a mission without, or your mission agenda can still be completed if everyone else dies.

There are luck instances when Pugs fit.

But the basic guidelines for pugs are as follows:
-Pugs will aggro to much.
-Pugs will heal to little, or to late, or both.
-Pugs will argue which direction to go as both patrols close in.
-Pugs will generally have two people who find they hate each other and bicker while in combat.
-Pugs will have a rude little noob who draws immature things on the minimap and pings every action.
-Pugs will have 1-2 quitters (Brand new feature!)
-Pugs will attack the wrong targets in the wrong order at the wrong time, in the wrong way.

Solutions to each problem in order.

-See it coming, mentally manage the attack vectors of every mob near the ones you plan to aggro. Be twice as tactically adept as every other person on the team.

-Be prepared to pick up healing slack any way you can through bodyblocking, protection, enemy debuff, etc. Assume your monk will choke until they prove themselves.

-Make the decision for them, start running at one of the patrols, most of the time the rest of the team will follow the most decisive person. It's better that a quick decision be made then no decision at all.

-Tell them to shut up and get back to fighting, and if they don't get the message the first time, threaten to leave. (Most of the time it puts them in their place.)

-Warn the immature player, then threaten to leave if it continues.

-Figure out by personality assesment which players are most likely to panic and bail at the first sign of trouble. Then assess yourself and figure out which parts of their roles you can fill in, in a panic situation.

-If no one chooses to be caller, you tell the group you will call. Then if they disobey the call you remind them to focus fire. Other then that there's little you can do except pick up their slack.

That's the real problem nowadays, everyone has a "role" and if that "role" goes missing no one knows how to compensate. There's no generic combat training anymore.

For intance W/Mo can effectively play as half monks with one, yes, one healing spell. If you already have a heavy dmg output player in your group, then it's alright to bring Word of Healing. Lo, behold instead of your energy taxed monk letting that one extra player die, or having to chase down the stupid player that strayed to far, you wait till they're below 50% health and boom. 5 energy, you saved your teammate's life and let the monk do his/her job for everyone else.

Now what is the best way for any R primary character to help a caster that's under attack gain energy?

If they're a necro fine, Blood Ritual, etc.

But what if they're not? No go right? Wrong. Cripple the pursuing enemy or interrupt the caster. Now while most archers get the inturrupt, the idea of crippling a melee to give the caster time to escape never seems to occur.

Have a tough boss spamming Reversal of Fortune and don't have any mesmer, ranger or interrupt warriors? Get an Assassin with Shroud of Silence.

Nasty type of monster casting an ugly spell? Bring a Arcane Thief Mesmer, with the copy skills Arcane Thievery and Larceny they have two shots of disabling the nasty spell from those creatures and then throwing it back at them (if they so choose to do so.) Heck, Me/Mo, Mo/Me can steal enemy monk spells and help party members.

There are so many obscure, unforseen uses for skills in bad situations, but no one knows how to use them. It just makes me ill comparing the quality now to quality then.

Miyamoto Tzu · Jul 13, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Not to be a contrarian or anything in this thread (because I agree that the lvl of proficiency of many puggers I've played with has been far less than adequate) but I have had some excellent pug groups in the last couple of weeks in several different areas.

As my Warrior I led a great pug through Gayala Hatchery mission...they all listened perfectly and played their professions just as well. We saved all five hatchlings and got the Masters reward for the mish.

Have had a few excellent groups in The Deep that have gotten to and killed Kanaxai...this was mostly due to the party leader who's extensive knowledge of that elite mish really made a huge difference but we were successful each time he led.

Have also led (again as my Warrior) several successful Forgemaster runs in FoW.

In general you do get bad groups here and there...they are each bad for their own various reasons. Sometimes people get Error 007 or lag at the wrong time and run haphazardly into an over-agro situation.

Frankly I will always try story based missions with a pug until I get familiar with it and am certain a hench crew will cut the mustard...if I'm lucky I get past it the first time...if not then hey, I have to do it again.

Quests that I get from NPC's I always do with henches just because they do what I tell them dammit!! :P

Hopefully you can find a group of skilled players to adventure with but if not, use henchies or try starting your own groups where you can hand pick the players you will be playing with.

Tzu

DevilStick · Jul 13, 2006, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria The Princess

when we dont have 8 guildies avalble for a mission, we take rst henchman. with 3 good players and rest henchman its better then 8 bad players who keep flkaming each other.

Quoted for the truth!

Though I've had mostly good PUG experiences with Factions, I'd take three or four of my guild mates and henchmen over 8 PUGgers anyday.

Poison Ivy · Jul 13, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinican

I really wish Anet wuld consider a 7-15 day downloadable trial of GW- via credit card even if the trial version were always a chapter before current... aka trial versions of Prophacies... then of factions when chapter 3 comes out...Not only would this benefit the comunity it would benefit Anet... i could be wrong but it doesnt seem like a bad idea...

this would allow people to get their friends at the least to try it out... its hard to find people in a virtual world that play like you... easier to get friends that you already get along with to come try the game out...

reason i say credit card trial is to not leave too much room for hack accounts... can track them by CC and only allow one trial per CC and the card can automatically be billed the retail price if not cancelled within the trial period

Are you mad! That way GW will be infected with trial noobs.

nohooiam · Jul 13, 2006, 07:33 PM // 19:33

pug pve is frustrating when you're used to organized pvp.

Lil Pips · Jul 13, 2006, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Hand Of Ruin: do you have a partner that you hunt with often? My friend and I do practically everything in GW together, and controlling henchies is a *lot* easier with 2 humans than with just 1. With 2 humans and the rest henchies we have gotten all bonuses (and all quests) done with no problems. We have done this on 3 sets of characters now, with all 8 professions being represented in some form or another (so you don't need the "best" combos or anything like that).

Regardless of mission completion, GW is just much more fun when you are playing it with your best friend!

Fyre Brand · Jul 13, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hand of Ruin

I'm so aggrivated right now... and I'm considering just uninstalling the game and returning it to the store or selling it.

I'm sick and tired of failing missions and quests not once or twice, but upwards of seven and eight times because people haven't figured out the most basic aspects of PvE...

Mainly idiots who charge into large groups of monsters then run back to the party looking for help, now aggroing a ton of monsters for everyone. Or these stupid eles who use AoE spells in aggro-sensative areas, effectively ruining our pull and setting off a horde of angry monsters!

I try to explain over and over but people just don't care, are too stupid to understand, or have no self-control whatsoever, and it's ruining the game for me. I suppose I need an experienced guild, but it seems without some shiny 15k set or a 100k axe, any good guild will turn their nose at me. I really miss when I could get things done with hench...

The desert missions can be done with henchies with a little practice. The desert missions are low end imitations of PvP style of play (timed, rez after 2 min, etc). The trickiest desert mission with the henches is Thirsty because you often have to run really far back to control the melee henches. You also have to get a rhythm for the rez timer.

In Tyria if you want to do the bonus I would highly recommend doing the mission first and then going back and doing the bonus after. Some missions like Elona's work good in combo with mission and bonus, but really if you are having a hard tiime with a mission or bonus just focus on one or the other.

PUG's can be really good or really frustrating. It can depend on the area you are trying to beat too. Some areas seem like a freak magnet. Pretty soon you get to know what pug's to join and what to ignore. It's hard to describe but you do get a feeling for it. Mostly it doesn't matter how great a person plays their class but how well the whole group works together. A group of 6 mediocre players will do much better than a group of 2 great players with 4 others and no one is working together. I was helping a guildie with Boreas Seabed. We finally just got the henchies so we could finish it because the pug's didn't want to work together and were rude.

It really helps to read the wiki strategy guides for the desert missions. They do a great job of pointing out nifty tricks which work great.

Finally find yourself a good guild. This bears repeating again and again:
Guildies > Henchies > Pug's