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Old Mar 08, 2012, 05:01 PM // 17:01   #1
Dblazer
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Default How to make this teamsetup more offensive

So ye.. I've been using this teamsetup for quite some time now and I just feel like I am missing out on damage and are to much focused on defense.

The warrior is me:


I was personally thinking about swapping the Dwayna order healer out for a Sols Healer but I believe the Derv is better for group healing and preventing spike damage (correct me if I am wrong).
Also I might think about swapping the Shared Burden mesmer out for more of a nuker.

Overall I hope to achieve a more offensive teamsetup while maintaining synergy between the heroes.
I would love feedback on this and hear from u where u guys think improvements can be made.

Last edited by Dblazer; Mar 08, 2012 at 05:41 PM // 17:41..
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 07:09 PM // 19:09   #2
Lyv
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A few ideas :
- remove the ST rit. Except if you are doing really hard areas, you probably won't really need it since you have SY to keep your heroes alive. If needed, switch the MM to N/Mo and give him a few prots (SoA, Prot spirit...).
- as you said, the illu mesmer isn't great for damage. You can switch him to Esurge or take an other nuker.
- for general play, you can switch Panic to Esurge too.
- if feeling brave, take RoJ instead of UA. Or make the Monk Mo/N and give him weaken armor (not a huge investment in curses needed), and enfeebling blood if you like.

Never tried Dwayna dervs, so I can't help on this point.

Also, your warrior build needs an IAS, it will dramatically boost your damage. I also find that you don't really benefit from Warrior's Endurance with only one energy attack skill. You could fetch power attack or something like that in the build.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 07:11 PM // 19:11   #3
Premium Unleaded
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I hope you realise that JI is cancelling out OoP.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 07:35 PM // 19:35   #4
Dblazer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyv View Post
A few ideas :
- remove the ST rit. Except if you are doing really hard areas, you probably won't really need it since you have SY to keep your heroes alive. If needed, switch the MM to N/Mo and give him a few prots (SoA, Prot spirit...).
- as you said, the illu mesmer isn't great for damage. You can switch him to Esurge or take an other nuker.
- for general play, you can switch Panic to Esurge too.
- if feeling brave, take RoJ instead of UA. Or make the Monk Mo/N and give him weaken armor (not a huge investment in curses needed), and enfeebling blood if you like.

Never tried Dwayna dervs, so I can't help on this point.

Also, your warrior build needs an IAS, it will dramatically boost your damage. I also find that you don't really benefit from Warrior's Endurance with only one energy attack skill. You could fetch power attack or something like that in the build.
Thanks for the imput I will def. try your ideas out! Just a question, dont know if you have experience with it, but do you think switching out the Ilu. mesmer for an Esurge mesmer will reduce my overall defence a lot. And if 2 Dom mesmer will be effective (i.e. not clipping their interupts or cast the same hexes).

Also I really fell in love with the ST Rit :P but I guess you are right, they are not really required for easier areas. I do however find that I run alot out of the earshot of my party which leads in my SY not always triggering the whole party.

@Premium Unleaded - Thanks for the information! I wasn't aware of that idd. Guess I'll drop JI in that case.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 07:52 PM // 19:52   #5
Lyv
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2 Dom mesmers are fine, i've seen no real problem with hex stacking and such when using them. Some people out there run 3 mesmers with cry of frustration and it seems to work great, so it should be ok.

The illu mesmer is good against physical, but with enfeebling blood most of them won't be a real threat any more. Shared Burden is nice for really dangerous mobs (I use it in my DoA hero team for safety), but otherwise not needed imho.

It also depend on your playstyle. If you bother with pulling/blocking/balling mobs and such, you won't need the same defence as if you just charge into mobs and let some escape on your heroes. You will need more AoE damage and targeted prot (on yourself) in the first case, and so on...
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 09:06 PM // 21:06   #6
Gabs88
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Do you have either mercenary heroes or Zei Ri (WoC Ritualist) available?
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 10:20 PM // 22:20   #7
Dblazer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
Do you have either mercenary heroes or Zei Ri (WoC Ritualist) available?
I do have one ritualist mercenary hero. And hopefully soon I will have Zei Ri aswell.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 10:37 PM // 22:37   #8
Gabs88
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Originally Posted by Dblazer View Post
I do have one ritualist mercenary hero. And hopefully soon I will have Zei Ri aswell.


Basically, if there's 2 elites on a bar that means there's a free choice which one you should use. Fill out the remaining slots for yourself based on your preferrences. But it makes for an allright base build. Whether or not you want protective was Kaolai on the Me/Rt is entirely up to you. Same about whether you want RoJ or UA since it's the non elite skills youre after anyhow.

The ST / AoTL bar you change depending on zones but in any zones where there's exploitable corpses I always reccomend a MM.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 10:58 PM // 22:58   #9
Dblazer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabs88 View Post
http://s18.postimage.org/6qr89n5a1/image.png

Basically, if there's 2 elites on a bar that means there's a free choice which one you should use. Fill out the remaining slots for yourself based on your preferrences. But it makes for an allright base build. Whether or not you want protective was Kaolai on the Me/Rt is entirely up to you. Same about whether you want RoJ or UA since it's the non elite skills youre after anyhow.

The ST / AoTL bar you change depending on zones but in any zones where there's exploitable corpses I always reccomend a MM.
Thank you for your input! I will aswell try this out aswell.

I do have a question for you tho: Once I found out about the ST Rit I never changed back to any other defensive hero (command para/ER Prot) because an almost 100% upkeep of Shelter is so usefull against spike damage (especially in HM areas).
Now I never was really fund of MM (to much slacking imo), but as you can see I once again gave it a go and it works in certain zones very good.
Now I do run both of them, even tho it's not reccomended I don't remark any problems so far, but do you think a party can really keep up in most areas with a MM instead of a ST Rit?

Aswell as: does in your experience put the heroes the spirits out of range a lot aswell?
As a warrior I charge in and half of my group is out of eartshot, most of the times the Signet of Spirits spirits will just be slacking behind not attackin' because they are put down out of range.

Thanks in advance
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 11:34 PM // 23:34   #10
loopysnoopy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblazer View Post
As a warrior I charge in and half of my group is out of eartshot, most of the times the Signet of Spirits spirits will just be slacking behind not attackin' because they are put down out of range.

Thanks in advance
For the ritu thats using SoS spirit spam build I my self found that the spirits are in the back line then I realised put a spear on the ritu then there much closer a 5Energy spear of fortitude will do then either a shield or a focus/offhand.

My heros on weapons wise depending there rolls is depending on the weapons as I try and create a back line group thats wands/staffs middle group spears front line this is like para's or buffs I equip a caster shortbow not always optimal but fun the main weapon sets would be spears and wands/staffs
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 11:41 PM // 23:41   #11
Gabs88
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ST is awesome, but MM deals more damage period. So you should only bring ST if minions are not available and youre facing strong AoE damage. Otherwise you're usually better off with another RoJ, Esurge, EA or whatever, if you don't need ST don't bring it!


You can, contrary to popular beliefs. Bring both, in some situations it's not an all bad choice either.

SoS, SoGM and AoTL are, like it or not, undefeated champions of PVE. Nobody's been able to anywhere near prove that they can outrun spirits or anything such as that yet. They might outrun them for a few seconds but the ridicilous damage spirits put out is still going to prevail over time. Same with the AOTL minion bomber.

I use spirits regardless of whether I play melee or caster.

Last edited by Gabs88; Mar 08, 2012 at 11:44 PM // 23:44..
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 08:05 AM // 08:05   #12
Dblazer
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Originally Posted by loopysnoopy View Post
For the ritu thats using SoS spirit spam build I my self found that the spirits are in the back line then I realised put a spear on the ritu then there much closer a 5Energy spear of fortitude will do then either a shield or a focus/offhand.

My heros on weapons wise depending there rolls is depending on the weapons as I try and create a back line group thats wands/staffs middle group spears front line this is like para's or buffs I equip a caster shortbow not always optimal but fun the main weapon sets would be spears and wands/staffs
Thanks for the tip i'll try it out. do you know a collector/merchant who sells those 'caster' spears?

@Gabs - Ok, like I said, I'll try it out and hope to achieve the same succes as you do Thanks again for the help!

Last edited by Dblazer; Mar 09, 2012 at 03:47 PM // 15:47..
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 03:22 AM // 03:22   #13
Relyk
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Use a RoJ Monk, replace IAU with YMLaD, SY with Flail, and use Dash instead of Echarge
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:52 AM // 11:52   #14
loopysnoopy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dblazer View Post
Thanks for the tip i'll try it out. do you know a collector/merchant who sells those 'caster' spears?
Try this 1 they drop well so you can have a bunch of caster spears. In no time.

Suntouched Spear:Energy +5 Requires 5 Cobalt Talons; The collectors in Yatendi Canyons his name is Hamri.

sorry for the late reply
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 03:22 PM // 15:22   #15
hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyv View Post
A few ideas :
- remove the ST rit. Except if you are doing really hard areas, you probably won't really need it since you have SY to keep your heroes alive. If needed, switch the MM to N/Mo and give him a few prots (SoA, Prot spirit...).
- as you said, the illu mesmer isn't great for damage. You can switch him to Esurge or take an other nuker.
- for general play, you can switch Panic to Esurge too.
- if feeling brave, take RoJ instead of UA. Or make the Monk Mo/N and give him weaken armor (not a huge investment in curses needed), and enfeebling blood if you like.

Never tried Dwayna dervs, so I can't help on this point.

Also, your warrior build needs an IAS, it will dramatically boost your damage. I also find that you don't really benefit from Warrior's Endurance with only one energy attack skill. You could fetch power attack or something like that in the build.

No no NONONO.

ST is the most broken elite in the rit arsenal and the ST hero is a must have regardless of whether u do nm, hm. You have no clue what u are talking about

He should also keep both a UA monk and a RoJ monk since they synergise well with the war in general.

What i would recommend:

Yourself: HB warrior with WW and S&M slash and SY
RoJ hero with SoH
RoJ hero with balth spirit (though scrubs will qq about this, dont listen to em)
UA monk with healing and DF AoE healing spells
AotL necro with prot spirit and shield of absorption
Dom mesmer with panic or energy surge depending on pref
SoS/resto rit
ST rit

Im too lazy to paste every skill in there but you should be able to get an idea of what the builds consists based on these outlines. Just keep in mind u are a warrior and you have 0 synergy with mesmer heroes so avoid taking 2, much less 3.

Capitalise on the smite hex and condition spells on ur monks, they are amazing considering u always get hexed and are always on the front lines.

16 chan splinter weapon is the most OP spell in the game.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 04:37 PM // 16:37   #16
Dblazer
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Originally Posted by hunter View Post
No no NONONO.

ST is the most broken elite in the rit arsenal and the ST hero is a must have regardless of whether u do nm, hm. You have no clue what u are talking about

He should also keep both a UA monk and a RoJ monk since they synergise well with the war in general.

What i would recommend:

Yourself: HB warrior with WW and S&M slash and SY
RoJ hero with SoH
RoJ hero with balth spirit (though scrubs will qq about this, dont listen to em)
UA monk with healing and DF AoE healing spells
AotL necro with prot spirit and shield of absorption
Dom mesmer with panic or energy surge depending on pref
SoS/resto rit
ST rit

Im too lazy to paste every skill in there but you should be able to get an idea of what the builds consists based on these outlines. Just keep in mind u are a warrior and you have 0 synergy with mesmer heroes so avoid taking 2, much less 3.

Capitalise on the smite hex and condition spells on ur monks, they are amazing considering u always get hexed and are always on the front lines.

16 chan splinter weapon is the most OP spell in the game.
Hehe well thanks for your input aswell.
I have to say I love the ST rit a lot too. I am using both a MM and a ST.
I do wonder about your 'don't bring a lot of mesmers' theory.
I've heard of several people that they are running such as 3 Esurge mesmers to solo the most hardest HM area's.
Also I am now using the inspiration mesmer with a few rit healing spells together with the sos (chann/resto) as the 'healers'
I am aware of the fact that UA monks are pretty damn good, but I am hearing a lot of different statements about the "dedicated healer VS hybrid".

Could you please elaborate a bit on the info, as it sounds you are pretty enthusiastic about it.

Thanks in advance and I will aswell try the setup you mentioned (meaning removing one mesmer and bringin an extra monk)

PS: I am using a SoGM rit aswell atm, don't you think the lack of spirits will have a big impact? I find them to be pretty OP in HM in combination with minions to have a gigantic body blocking wall.

PPS: As someone recommened, I've been trying out Shields+spears setups on my casters with 5e/+30hp on spear and +30hp/10armor against fire on shields for more defense.
I actually noticed their survivability increased aswell as rit's now putting spirits closer to mobs (in actual range). BUT my SoS rit started casting splinter on them aswell because they wear a martial weapon. Would you say it's a problem?

Last edited by Dblazer; Mar 12, 2012 at 04:42 PM // 16:42..
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 04:58 PM // 16:58   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
No no NONONO.

ST is the most broken elite in the rit arsenal and the ST hero is a must have regardless of whether u do nm, hm. You have no clue what u are talking about
Maybe YOU need ST to get through NM, but most people don't. That much defense is completely pointless in easy mode when well micro'd prots are basically all you'll need. I also don't know why in the world you're running an ST and MM together, either.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 05:00 PM // 17:00   #18
Dblazer
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Maybe YOU need ST to get through NM, but most people don't. That much defense is completely pointless in easy mode when well micro'd prots are basically all you'll need. I also don't know why in the world you're running an ST and MM together, either.
Well I have to say that ST in normal mode def. makes things a lot easier. Because then you don't have to bring any prots and thus micro-ing.

Also I think anyone who's saying MM + ST isn't working haven't tested it.
I thought it wasn't a good combo aswell, but minions don't actually take a whole lot more damage than players, they die fast(er) because they have natural heal degen.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 05:35 PM // 17:35   #19
DRGN
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Originally Posted by Dblazer View Post
Well I have to say that ST in normal mode def. makes things a lot easier. Because then you don't have to bring any prots and thus micro-ing.

Also I think anyone who's saying MM + ST isn't working haven't tested it.
I thought it wasn't a good combo aswell, but minions don't actually take a whole lot more damage than players, they die fast(er) because they have natural heal degen.
My point was that dedicating an entire character slot to just defense in NM is massive overkill when all you NEED is a few prots thrown on another character and can load up that slot with damage. I can't think of a single NM area where an ST is a "must have", which is the claim I was addressing. If someone can give me one, feel free.

I tried MM+ST quite a few times before giving up on it. The point is that you're burning Shelter/Displacement uses on things that you want to die in combat for 105 AoE damage. Blood of the Master is great because it keeps minions alive between battles. Keeping them alive DURING the fight and increasing the risk of Shelter going on recharge in a difficult HM area seems pointless to me.
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Old Mar 12, 2012, 05:37 PM // 17:37   #20
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Protecting minions is counterproductive because the whole point of it is for them to die and trigger death novas. "Hero mm" is one of the greatest misnomers in the game, along with the typical pug definition of a "tank/tanking".

In normal mode, it's usually more than sufficient to just have continuous/chained SYG and a biggie like prot spirit.
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