GWG Auction software problems?

[Find_&_Seek]

Hey Folks,

We have received an email asking us to put a list together of all the failings & faults of the auction software system so we're giving you guys the chance to have your voice heard by Curse & to post what's bugging you about the software below.

We have realized for many months you have been irritated by all the problems & Thank you for your patience & understanding.


Find & Seek.
GWG Auction Mod

And PS please keep it clean.

[Swingline]

If I were you guys I would just delete the automated AH and use the forums. No one uses it because everyone on there sells their crap for bold prices, pretty much driving away any buyers from using the AH. Its also buggy as hell and not worth your time fixing it.

[Wynthyst]

I would have to argue with most of your comment. If "no one" used it, there wouldn't be a steady count of 5000+ active auctions. We have the forum sales space for those who choose to sell their items that way, however, there are a lot of people who don't wish to have to babysit a forum thread.

We understand the software we currently use is buggy, that's the entire point of this thread. We hope to be able to get NEW software that doesn't have these issues.


Issues:
*Recurring login problems
*Recurring cronjob problems
*Poor backend architecture

[LicensedLuny]

I hope it's ok to post this here, but I've taken to using the system at gwauctions.org (GWA) instead of Guru's auction system for most of my listings.

The issues I have with the auction system used here are as follows.

• Very limited search capabilities, made even worse by the glitch with the ' character that gets converted to gobbledigook text.
• No requirement that sellers specify exactly what they're selling; it's rather freeform if they want to spell out every detail (like inscribable or not, attached mods, terms used, etc.) or assume buyers will know.
• Known glitches/limitations with images not showing up for everyone all the time.
• Known bug with using the default bid increment setting that result in multiple bidders' offers winding up outbidding each other for the same amount. (I realize this can be avoided if the seller sets a custom increment, but not all sellers know to do that. It can make shopping on Guru auctions quite a hassle when you have no way to be sure if the other bidder outbid you or not.)
• Lack of history for completed trades to review actual price data.
• (I realize this last one here is a choice made by Guru staff rather than a limitation of the software.) I do not like the rule prohibiting sellers from inviting in-game/private offers. It's fine that any item which gets bids or buyouts through the system is binding and the seller must deliver. However, I meet many players who will not or can not register for fansites (the most common reason I hear is security concerns.) Prohibiting me from leaving a note on my own listings like, "Feel free to contact me in-game (<IGN>) with any questions or counter offers," seems unnecessarily restrictive. I understand the idea is to give everyone who wants it the chance to leave feedback. However, I find it unnecessarily restrictive to prohibit us making it clear to guest browsers that we do not mind being contacted in game.
  If someone contacts me in game asking to buy something immediately and my item in question does not have any current binding bids, I have no issue whatsoever shutting down the listing on the system and selling the item that way. The swap offer feature in the current system is supposed to offer that option as I understand it. However, to me that's not at all intuitive to use in such a way, and it still requires players register for a fansite, something not all players are willing to do.
  I'm not proposing that all sellers must accept outside offers, not at all. As a seller, I simply object to the current rules' forbidding me that option.

For all the above reasons, I choose to sell things on GWA instead of Guru auctions. I still, occasionally, shop at Guru auctions since there's no telling where the marvelous shiny new widget I want to buy will appear for sale. IMO, GWA has Guru auctions beat on shopping, too, because they have such a highly searchable system which also includes a wishlist feature that emails me when any new item is listed that matches my entered searches.

Clearly, Guru auctions is not so awful that, "no one uses it." The homepage tells me there are 118k registered users and 2.8k active auctions. That's not no one.

The homepage of GWA tells me there are 11.8k registered users and 1.4k active auctions.

I can only imagine the surge of use we'd see if the comparatively large Guru community had a system as powerful as GWAs to use. We might actually see the "average GW player" start saying something other than, "People still use <insert any fansite like Guru or GWA>? I thought everyone just checked argos/GW estimator now!"

I like having an auction system to use for most items! There are still certain odd and/or fairly rare items that I find it best to list on Ventari's threads, and I wouldn't want to lose the other Ventari's sections either. But having a useful auction system is fantastic for the vast majority of drops this game produces that we find worth the trouble to trade between players.

I predict we'd eventually see more manageable post volume and higher overall views in Ventari's if Guru's auction system worked more like GWA's, but that's just my guess.


I do apologize for any unavoidable offense folks take from my comments here. I assure you, any such offense was not at all my intention!

Cheers & Happy hunting,
Luny


EDITS

- If anyone is interested, I have a "template" PM I send any Guru folks who ask me about GWA. If you think it might help, PM me and I'll send it along.

- GWA (owned/operated by Maarten I think) is a smaller community than Guru. As near as I can tell, the site is entirely supported by Maarten and user donations (no ads, no "big" sponsors like Curse here.) So I seriously doubt their servers can handle the Guru-volume of traffic very well.

[jimbo32]

I can't speak about bugs and glitches because I've never actually used Guru Auctions. I have browsed a bit on occasion though, and I have to agree with Luny's assessment regarding the user-friendliness of the system. In my opinion, GWA is so superior that they really can't even be compared.

If Guru adopted a similar system to GWA, I think that you'd see the number of users skyrocket.

[Find_&_Seek]

From my point of view among other things, the fact that the Images are broken and cannot be fixed (only by posting them in the description box) does my head in, >< I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to listing items and it drives me up the wall when I can't add images to the actual site haha xD.

[Swingline]

Originally Posted by Wynthyst

I would have to argue with most of your comment. If "no one" used it, there wouldn't be a steady count of 5000+ active auctions. We have the forum sales space for those who choose to sell their items that way, however, there are a lot of people who don't wish to have to babysit a forum thread.

We understand the software we currently use is buggy, that's the entire point of this thread. We hope to be able to get NEW software that doesn't have these issues.


Issues:
*Recurring login problems
*Recurring cronjob problems
*Poor backend architecture

Well the whole point of me saying that is because all the s/bs I see on there are either very close, right on or over the price of what I can get in game with zero effort. That's not the mods fault that's just the community and I have met hundreds who think this in game.

Brand new software could very well fix all of the problems with Guru auctions. If the software was overhauled with big fixes, an easier selling system and new design there would be a massive influx of users to change how people buy and sell.

I don't know if it would be possible to fuse GWA with guru but it would only do a world of good for both communities and I believe you guys should look into it. If not it means a lot of work for poor Find_&_Seek.

[Urass]

My biggest issue is auction duplications... I truly do NOT enjoy telling a buyer I don't have an item they purchased because the system made the auction. I scan my auctions for dups, but have been caught flat footed before.

As for GWA, I have had an account there for years also. I liken it a bit to Apple products, excellent, but not always the most flexible... the community also reminds me of Apple users, if you are one, it's the only product worth considering

Initially prices were cheaper on GWA than guru, but not for some time now.

I shop both, but I've stopped posting on GWA due to it's inflexibility... I added a comment to an item explaining it was Old School and the auction was flagged as a violation. It's their ball and they set the rules, so I no longer list there.

One great feature GWA does have is a searchable price history for sold items. Very nice for unusual items.

[LicensedLuny]

Originally Posted by Urass

I shop both, but I've stopped posting on GWA due to it's inflexibility... I added a comment to an item explaining it was Old School and the auction was flagged as a violation.

Interesting! I have bought and sold both inscribable and inherent items there for over a year now. I do follow their requirement that the faked-info tag we create as a seller match exactly what it says in game, and I tend to leave comments/notes on my listings for uninscribable items noting what aspects cannot be modded. I've never run afoul of their rules on my listings before.

I use the terms "not inscribable" or "uninscribable" instead of "oldschool" whenever I buy or sell stuff at any venue. Personally, I don't care which term is used, but I've met too many players over the years whose definitions of "oldschool" vary ... and some get quite emotional over it. I just don't go there if I can avoid it! lol

I will say, no matter your vocabulary choice in the comments, their requirement that listings look precisely as they do in game makes it very handy to search listings that only do or only do not include the string "Inscription:" in the faked-tag.



EDIT - re: below

Originally Posted by Urass

@LicensedLuny...

Thanks for reiterating my points:
1. inflexibility
b. if you are one, it's the only product worth considering
&. I'm happy you are happy... I'm happy too

I really have next to no idea what you're saying or implying there, so my apologies if there was something I was supposed to reply to and failed to comprehend.

But I'm glad to hear we're both happy! Whoot! It sucks when playing a video game leads to anything other than happy people.

Also, I am SO SORRY if I contributed to derailing this thread which wasn't supposed to be about GWA in the first place. Urass' mention of not being allowed to say oldschool in the comments at GWA just took me by complete surprise, as I see sellers use that term in their comments there quite frequently. I wanted to know what was different about his case, that's all. My sincere apologies if I failed to pick up on something subtle that should've answered my question in the first place.

[Urass]

@LicensedLuny...

Thanks for reiterating my points:
1. inflexibility
b. if you are one, it's the only product worth considering
&. I'm happy you are happy... I'm happy too

[jimbo32]

Originally Posted by Urass

@LicensedLuny...

Thanks for reiterating my points:
1. inflexibility
b. if you are one, it's the only product worth considering
&. I'm happy you are happy... I'm happy too

No offense, but that's complete bullshit. If you can't handle making sure that the item you're selling matches what you post, I'm not sure that *any* auction system will make you happy. That's your failure, not the auction site's.

That's one of the criticisms of the current Guru Auctions system - waaay too many inaccurate or incomplete listings.

[Urass]

Originally Posted by jimbo32

No offense, but that's complete bullshit. If you can't handle making sure that the item you're selling matches what you post, I'm not sure that *any* auction system will make you happy. That's your failure, not the auction site's.

That's one of the criticisms of the current Guru Auctions system - waaay too many inaccurate or incomplete listings.

OK, this is really deviating from the original post, so I will make this my last reply on the hijack.

I said I thought WGA inflexible (my "violation" consisted of too MUCH info)
I said those who support WGA are rabid in doing so (self evident)
I said I was happy

WGA is a different style... I use it to my needs... but the larger community is definitely with guru, hence my preference.

Don`t be mad

[Swingline]

Originally Posted by Urass

I said I thought WGA inflexible (my "violation" consisted of too MUCH info)

They have that rule because it's on someones private server.

[shmek]

*Cannot set date/time for end of auction. This became a problem in Jan 2010, was fixed for about half a year, and has been disfunctional for a long time again.

*Images not showing after upload/link. Longstanding issue for a couple years. Was a post that it would be fixed within about a month. It never happened for years and is still an issue.

*Auctions disappear. You post it one day and its gone the next. NOT ended, just disappears. If you have lots of auctions spending an hour or two to list, finding what disappeared is a very lengthy pain.

*Auctions get duplicated. Very similar to the disappearing auction, but instead you get the same auction listed twice. Often when you delete the duplicate you find your auction count has gone down. It seems as though what happens is one auction relists and copies another instead of itself.

==>Special Thank you for the new effort as fixing the auctions. It takes time to list them but makes trading very nice for many people and to find stuff you are looking for much more easily.

===>Apologies for restating some of the bugs/errors. I hadn't posted in quite a while and was thinking the most recent went on top and didn't read down through the thread until I saw my post go to the bottom. I'm leaving the errors there still, and am glad to see the same problems bug several other auction users. Thanks again for the help to fix these known issues.

[Find_&_Seek]

Originally Posted by shmek

*Cannot set date/time for end of auction. This became a problem in Jan 2010, was fixed for about half a year, and has been disfunctional for a long time again.

*Images not showing after upload/link. Longstanding issue for a couple years. Was a post that it would be fixed within about a month. It never happened for years and is still an issue.

*Auctions disappear. You post it one day and its gone the next. NOT ended, just disappears. If you have lots of auctions spending an hour or two to list, finding what disappeared is a very lengthy pain.

*Auctions get duplicated. Very similar to the disappearing auction, but instead you get the same auction listed twice. Often when you delete the duplicate you find your auction count has gone down. It seems as though what happens is one auction relists and copies another instead of itself.

These are pretty much my thoughts on the issues were having with the software also along with other things, I'm hoping things will get resolved or looked into more at the start of 2012 :P will be a good start to the year at least!!

[Saxxon Askanius]

Salvete! :)

! I don't agree with Licensed Luny relating to the conditions. They're almost perfect, including the option to tell your IGN or get it only after auction ends. I enjoy the strict [and liberal] rules in marked contrast to the forum.
- No pictures/ images
- As mentioned above missing letters like apostrophe (needed for English genitive singular)
- Censored "Cockatrice" and other phrases
- Missing/ bugs at [weapon] categories, req's, etc.; [brand]new implemented items
- Received Invoices
- Missed function to delete all sold items on a page*
- Custom End Time [changes] buggy since 2010 (2k bug?^^)
(incorrect numbers of items in the categories - programming problem)
- Inaccurate or incomplete descriptions are indeed a problem (but not for everyone - mostly for sellers;)
! Sorting functions in the lists - as already mentioned [personalized] sales statistics* and
! Search functions (try to search a "Jug" or "Composite Noun"; placeholders (*) - a language and programming problem
* Long time archives of (all) sold items and closed auctions could make relisting, personalized controlling and statistics easier (I had no need for "drafts" [then]). I didn't like the "Auction Deleted" headers and I gave up to delete dozens of pages of them one by one... :D
** "Private Auctions" disused because of a lack transparency

Postscriptum: I support the allowance to say old school.

[Swingline]

Originally Posted by Find_&_Seek

These are pretty much my thoughts on the issues were having with the software also along with other things, I'm hoping things will get resolved or looked into more at the start of 2012 :P will be a good start to the year at least!!

The current software sounds like a mess. Wouldn't it be easier to just write new software? It's like a broken PC that will cost you $500 to fix, for that price you may as well buy a new one.

I can also think of some features that can make Guru AH much easier to use such as linking Guru forum accounts to the AH. The one thing I dont like about GWAs is I log in to sell stuff but they have no message system of their own. I have to use my e-mail and it's hard enough with all the junk I get already.

[LicensedLuny]

Originally Posted by Swingline

The current software sounds like a mess. Wouldn't it be easier to just write new software? It's like a broken PC that will cost you $500 to fix, for that price you may as well buy a new one.

I can also think of some features that can make Guru AH much easier to use such as linking Guru forum accounts to the AH. The one thing I dont like about GWAs is I log in to sell stuff but they have no message system of their own. I have to use my e-mail and it's hard enough with all the junk I get already.

There may be some database security issues with integrating an auction system to use the same login/accounts that we have for forums. I'd rather keep using separate logins for the auction system and forums than see them remove security or add loopholes that hackers would certainly try to exploit in order to get the user lists and emails here. That kind of info is extremely valuable to the unscrupulous RMT market, so the hackers are extremely motivated.

I'm not sure what you mean about the message system. Guru's Auction system has a message system, so does GWA. They're not called "Private Message" like they are here on the forums, but they work pretty much the same way. On Guru's Auction system it's in Members Area - Auction PM. On GWA, it's Messages - Inbox and Outbox. In both cases, messages there send me email alerts, too, but I can read and send messages without using my email. It seems about the same functionality as Guru's (forum) PM system.

[Swingline]

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

There may be some database security issues with integrating an auction system to use the same login/accounts that we have for forums. I'd rather keep using separate logins for the auction system and forums than see them remove security or add loopholes that hackers would certainly try to exploit in order to get the user lists and emails here. That kind of info is extremely valuable to the unscrupulous RMT market, so the hackers are extremely motivated.

Any internet user worth their beans has dummy e-mail accounts. I use google and yahoo to get around this stuff while my important e-mail address stays secure and out of the hands of phishers/hackers. If it was separate and the forums were hacked they can just as easily hack the AH login system. Two separate log ins won't mean squat.

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

I'm not sure what you mean about the message system. Guru's Auction system has a message system, so does GWA. They're not called "Private Message" like they are here on the forums, but they work pretty much the same way. On Guru's Auction system it's in Members Area - Auction PM. On GWA, it's Messages - Inbox and Outbox. In both cases, messages there send me email alerts, too, but I can read and send messages without using my email. It seems about the same functionality as Guru's (forum) PM system.

I probably just forgot they had them. Its been years since I used Guru AH and months since GWA. I found GWA tedious, mostly because I am so use to the flexibility of the sell forum.

[Emesis]

I would like to reiterate a few issues that I personally have a problem with, and add a few more to the list of irritating auction bugs.

Auction duplications
I think everyone knows what I mean by this.

Recieved mail duplications
I get duplicate mail like the auction duplications.

Disappearing auctions
I have questioned my sanity over this one.

Invoices
Get rid of them. I have some that have been there for a while and although I asked for help in removing them, they are still there.

Recurring login issue
I just want to log in when I want to. Nothing fancy, just have the ability to log in.

Broken thumbnails
Yep, with no thumbnails, there is more scope for misunderstanding and the rules state that you must keep the description brief.

Feedback
Well, you sell something and next thing you know you have been given bad feedback for nothing. Or, You leave justified feedback for person not trading and all of a sudden the defaulting buyer has posted some odious feedback for you. Surprise!

Contact us not working
Not sure if this was ever looked into, but this issue led to some very heated words between myself and a moderator who treated me like shit.

Schedule auctions broken
Now this would be a handy item; if it worked.

Bidding glitch
Nothing like being outbid on an item for the same price as your own bid.

Lack of timely support
Who am I kidding? What support. Just have a look through the forum at how many threads and questions were never answered or dealt with.

Lack of PM system outside of auction
I have had the need to contact someone when they have no auctions up and running. A PM system where you can type in the user name and send a message would be most excellent.

Catagory issues
New items may or may not be included as new catagories.

Censorship issue
As mentioned before, the Cockatrice issue can be a pain. If the auctions were policed then there would be no need for the censorship.

Spelling issue
Apostrophies should be able to be used, especially since they are included in the ingame description of many items.

No report system
A button on every auction to raise a flag for attention would be good. Those auctions that defy the rules could be reported much simpler.

No policing of site
Having someone check the auctions for ingame sellers, mis-catagorised items, bugs, innappropriate descriptions etc. would be really cool.

Having to put up with sub-standard service because volunteers don't think they have to uphold any kind of performance standard
A standard should be met and enforced. Moderators should be accountable for their actions and behaviour.

Lack of dispute resolution
Nothing is as frustrating as dealing with someone who has accused you of mis-describing an item you are selling.

That's it for now. I should be able to come up with a few more soon.