Guild Wars Update - Nov 10 and Nov 11

[Sammael]

sigh .... so now only water eles can eat cheese sandwiches while they play?

Seriously why can't u just assign some intelligence level to these AI monsters and have it based on dmg or their % of health remaining? As it stands, a minotaur and a FOW monk have the same reaction to Meteor Show.

some logic

detectaoe()
if
smartslvl <= x
then continueattack
if smartslvl <= x
then runaway

and

if health > healthpercentage
then continueattack
if health <= healthpercentage
then runaway

hope someone gets the idea

[Yamat]

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

This game is sposed to be based on SKILL. Farming req. a lot of skill and rewarded you kindly if you did it right. So getting rid of it is kind of like going against what Guild Wars is based on.

I have never seen any pentions against farming BEFORE this update if there are any can someone give me a link.

If Anet is so against Farming they should put Quests that give a large amount of gold to replace it or take one of the many suggestion found in the suggest forums.

They aren't against farming. They're against solo farming of high end areas, especially since it is causing mass inflation.

This patch doesn't affect group farming at all. It affects solo farming.

[calamitykell]

Originally Posted by Sammael

sigh .... so now only water eles can eat cheese sandwiches while they play?

Seriously why can't u just assign some intelligence level to these AI monsters and have it based on dmg or their % of health remaining? As it stands, a minotaur and a FOW monk have the same reaction to Meteor Show.

some logic

detectaoe()
if
smartslvl <= x
then continueattack
if smartslvl <= x
then runaway

and

if health > healthpercentage
then continueattack
if health <= healthpercentage
then runaway

hope someone gets the idea

I understand, and wouldn't mind seeing it work like that.

But do you think 10/10's update was whipped up overnight? I doubt it.

So if you want to change this further, be patient.

[kareel]

Originally Posted by Yamat

Because there is a balance between "smart" and "fun"; this is still a game. You are grossly outnumbered on every quest and mission.

I still want the monsters I face to have some level of intelligence and some sense of self-preservation... what's the point in lawnmowering through a game?

Now if the enemy was really smart they'd have healers, mesmers, rangers, ele's, necros and warriors in every group. But then combat would takes ages and everyone would start complaining again...

This is why I suggest we change all monsters to Tengu.

Normal Tengu Charge Party:
1 healer
1 necromancer (or 2)
1 mesmer
2 rangers (or 3)
3 warriors.

... Bring on the level 30 Avicara Fierce!

Arrrribaa!

~ KDS

[Loviatar]

Originally Posted by calamitykell

I understand, and wouldn't mind seeing it work like that.

But do you think 10/10's update was whipped up overnight? I doubt it.

So if you want to change this further, be patient.

i think we will be seeing adjustments for weeks not days.

CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHERE THAT NPC GETS HIS CHAR REPELLANT?

[Loralai]

Originally Posted by Yamat

This patch doesn't affect group farming at all. It affects solo farming.

Wrong.

Effects of Patch on Group Farming:
1. Fire elementalists are often times being left out of groups for community-wide panic, or if they are allowed in a group, many of them are scared to utilize their fire (AoE based) skills.
2. Nothing is running smoothly in any groups I've tried. It's chaotic and even with called targets as soon as someone drops any AoE spells without previous snares (which is unavoidable in general PUGs), it's every player for themselves, as we all get a massive influx of something beating on our head. I'm not saying it's not different, not saying it's completely bad...just saying it's affected.
3. I don't even have to explain the problems with henchmen groups. That's has already been demonstrated by numerous posts.
* there are more I'm just too drained to start trying to think at the moment.

Effects of Patch on SoloFarming:
1. It's a little bit slower.

[Samueldg]

Originally Posted by Yamat

They aren't against farming. They're against solo farming of high end areas, especially since it is causing mass inflation.

This patch doesn't affect group farming at all. It affects solo farming.

okay if you think solo farmers caused the increases in prices ... wait...

now there are MUCH less solo farming.... watch....

that ecto thats 17k now? gonna go up cause there are LESS people getting them in bulk IE no solo farmers.. no trapper teams..

those Gold great axes you could buy unid in augury... for a whole 2k... already hitting 20k+

removeing solo farmers INCREASED the value on everything in the economy because there is LESS items being found/ for sale...

Anet didnt do you some "lil guy" favor so the average noob with 10k can now cover his guys all in black dye ... anet just made the rich richer.. and the poor are gonna be a HELL OF A LOT poorer...

LESS SUPPLY= MORE DEMAND... MUCH HIGHER PRICES>>>>

[Yamat]

Originally Posted by Loralai

Effects of Patch on Group Farming:
1. Fire elementalists are often times being left out of groups for community-wide panic, or if they are allowed in a group, many of them are scared to utilize their fire (AoE based) skills.
2. Nothing is running smoothly in any groups I've tried. It's chaotic and even with called targets as soon as someone drops any AoE spells without previous snares (which is unavoidable in general PUGs), it's every player for themselves, as we all get a massive influx of something beating on our head. I'm not saying it's not different, not saying it's completely bad...just saying it's affected.
3. I don't even have to explain the problems with henchmen groups. That's has already been demonstrated by numerous posts.

I think what you are witnessing is Ele's who have yet to come to terms with the changes. I farmed griffons with my Ele yesterday, taking Thom and Alesia. I used Meteor Shower every time and it didn't scatter the griffons. You just have to wait a bit until Thom has pissed them off so much that they want him dead!!

I also did Abbaddon's Mouth yesterday with a Fire Ele in the party.. he did great--no monster chaos.

People just need to learn to play with the change.

Originally Posted by Samueldg

okay if you think solo farmers caused the increases in prices ... wait...

now there are MUCH less solo farming.... watch....

that ecto thats 17k now? gonna go up cause there are LESS people getting them in bulk IE no solo farmers.. no trapper teams..

those Gold great axes you could buy unid in augury... for a whole 2k... already hitting 20k+

removeing solo farmers INCREASED the value on everything in the economy because there is LESS items being found/ for sale...

Anet didnt do you some "lil guy" favor so the average noob with 10k can now cover his guys all in black dye ... anet just made the rich richer.. and the poor are gonna be a HELL OF A LOT poorer...

LESS SUPPLY= MORE DEMAND... MUCH HIGHER PRICES>>>>

What you are seeing at the moment is the panic after a change. Panic buying causes prices to increase. At some point people won't pay the increased prices any more and they will start to fall. Just don't buy anything for a couple of weeks.

The huge influx of gold (from solo farmers) was causing prices to increase way too fast... new people entering the game have no chance of buying anything. Now we need a new equilibrium to set in, and that will take some time.

[yangster]

If you can't deal with the update then just don't play the game and stop complaining. There not going to change it back. I can farm griffons solo with my E/Me perfectly fine, it just takes a bit longer. If your a lazy person who can't change your skills to fit with the update then just go to pvping. Remember that this game have both PvP and PvE, so if you don't pve at all and just pvp then you have no right in complaining about this update.

[Aeon_Xin]

Originally Posted by Ellix Cantero

Not true, most good pvp team builds will have at least one ele with a couple of AOE spells for things such as dislodging enemy teams on alters. AOE can be useful against real players *because* it causes them to scatter.

I said I wasn't going to argue, but this point should've been touched a while ago.

Players, the guys at the keybaord, are omnipotent. They know what some of the skills are before they're even cast all the way. I think that's why the dev/s made monsters run so soon the first time. Anyways, PvP scatter because why, every player know's it's a damn spell that does DoT.

Now, every monster in the entire world, know's what an AoE is, yeah, like a troll studies that sort of thing.

Now, say you take the AI, feet it what skills to use to counter what PvE'ers are using. IT will always win, based on the reflex factor alone. When to move, how far away to stand, when to cast what interrupt. All before you can even blink.

AI with it's already uncanny quickness and awesome knowledge of interrupt, and copule that with omnipotence and pvp strategy, well, it will win.
To any other person that thinks otherwise. I can beet it.
OK, then, it's You, vs You(with faster fingers, better net connection, instant thought processing)

If you make it as similar to PvP as possible, you're going to be shoving any gamer but those "leet" people aside.

Leet Wars, doesn't have the same feel or ring to it does it?

[Fantus]

Originally Posted by Yamat

Ok, I'll explain it slowly so you understand.

I know building more Ferrari's is a supply action, which is why I equated it to farming. You said farming increases demand. Farming is a SUPPLY action since by its very nature it brings gold and items into the economy. That's why it's called farming!!!

YAY... we're almost there! Yes, farming actually affects BOTH demand AND supply. since, as you correctly stated, both money and goods are entering the economy. We basically have two effects here:

a) Farming produces money on the farmers due to cash drops. The money will be used to buy stuff eventually. It increases the demand side of GW's economy since goods are going to be purchased eventually. This effect is rather bad for the economy because it would mean in increase of the demand of goods like materials and items. If happening isolated, it would mean inflation since prices would go up.

b) Farming also produces items on the farmers, either usable ones like weapons or materials. This means an increase of the supply side of GW's economy. If happening isolated it means that prices would drop (aka deflation).

Both effects actually cancel each other out when it comes to prices.

People farming because they want to buy stuff is not demand. The demand is the fact they want to buy stuff in the first place. Farming is a means to an end: there is a demand for gold.

It's the other way around, actually. The demand is people buying goods. Money is a means to buy them.

On your last point, more money enters the economy than items, simply because you don't get a good selable item on every farming run, so the availability of gold increases faster than the availability of items, so the price of items increases. If what you said was true, we would not have items selling for over 100k and more farmers would mean reducing prices, not increasing.

Allright, the problem is not really a misunderstanding of economics, it's a misunderstanding of farming. I have farmed for months now. Believe me when I say that money drops was the smallest portion of the wealth I earned. WAY more important were the materials I sold to a trader. Yes, I got money that way, but - more importantly - I increased the supply of materials at the NPC traders. You can thank people like me that you don't have to pay 500 gold for a Steel Ingot - we farmers are producing it and selling it to the trader in huge quantities. As for items, you sometimes get nice drops in terms of weapons, too. Again, farming means that MORE of those items are brought into the economy which keeps their prices down. You are assuming that we farmers ruin prices because we use our buying power to purchase every little gold item out there no matter the price and thus cause inflation. That's wrong. Farmers DON'T BUY MUCH, THEY SELL. It's quite unlikely that I'd ever buy a weapon from another player - why would I, I am getting tons of them during my farming activities. I have perfect weapons of every sort imaginable, there is really no need for me to ever buy other people's stuff. True, occassionally, a farmer sometimes might also buy a nice weapon or mod on the market. But they will sell ten to hundred times that volume. The total effect is of course a reduction in prices, not an increase. You want to know what I did with my money? I bought 5 15k armor sets and one Fissure armor. My buying power left the economy in huge quantities that way.

So, now tell me what's so bad about that...

[Aeon_Xin]

Originally Posted by Fantus

YAY... we're almost there! Yes, farming actually affects BOTH demand AND supply. since, as you correctly stated, both money and goods are entering the economy. We basically ................... people's stuff. True, occassionally, a farmer sometimes might also buy a nice weapon or mod on the market. But they will sell ten to hundred times that volume. The total effect is of course a reduction in prices, not an increase. You want to know what I did with my money? I bought 5 15k armor sets and one Fissure armor. My buying power left the economy in huge quantities that way.

So, now tell me what's so bad about that...

I'm not replying to any specific point on your post. The defense of farmers on the whole though.

Ebay farming I believe is the root of the farming problem. IF you feel the need, you can buy a million in game coin.

Boom, a noob with a million coin, can buy a runner to get him everywhere, the materials for the leet armor, and the armor itself, and the uber weapons, the sup runes, and everything else.

Not only is that completely unfair, to have the best of every thing all in one day(considering only really, the time of the runs), that's an economy killer.
This guy buys anything at any price cause he can afford it.

Suppose he buuys for the most expensive class as far as runes go, and wants black armor. You know, he wants the popular stuff.

Suppose he is actually one of several hundred atleast.

One, from that many buyers that buy at really high prices, who cares about fair market value, I'm not going to accept less than X-amount cause some ebayer will come along shortly....

The more things are bought in NPC vendors, the more prices rise, right?
(that really is a question, i don't get the vendors for dyes, runes, and materials)

Third, once his(and other ebayers) one million coin actually starts to circulate, suddenly everyone else has more coin too, and everyone else know's it. Prices go up. Single gold value goes down.

Alot of people are in ascalon, offering the best weapons for alot of money, they want the ebayers money. Cause they know it's on the noobs. They're not selling in Lions arch, because even though you don't find many leet weapons being sold there, you know everyone has them.

Any runner asking for people to pay him to picken or yaks are the only ones that are trying to scrape up some normal in game case.

I've seen people in ascalon offering runs to droks and other such players, they encourage the ebay shopper also.

So, if prices rise for the everything on account of the ebayer, well, normal people decide to resort to farming, to get the gold they need/want to get the items they need want.

Am I wrong?

IF not, am I missing something?

[uidaho_kid]

From what I've been reading, this is what I have seen. People seem to be a just a little ticked (but only a little) because their nukers won't work in the same many as before. So instead of deciding to bash anet and my fellow gamers, I'm going to try and offer some constructive criticism.

With the update, movement hindering skills now can play a major roll in PvE. In GvG I can't tell you how many times a good water or air ele has made a difference between victory and defeat. With this in mind, I think that maybe there are a few additions to the game that might help the overall experience. One thing that might help is to give warriors a greater ability to hold aggro. In FF11, they had a great aggro system with warrior skills that really allowed him to keep the focus of the enemy on him. If anet implemented something like this, then maybe all it would take is an intelligent warrior to be able to pull off the desired effect of an ele AoE spells.

The second idea that I have is to give the AoE spells a kind of "presence" on the screen. In other words, instead of targeting an enemy to use the spell, select the actual area that you wish the spell to take place in. With this you could coordinate so that a ranger could use ignite arrows to drive enemies into an ele's firestorm.

This is the constructive criticism that I have, and I would like to see if anyone else has any additions, that anet would be able to use, that might help with everyone's ill feelings toward the new patch.

[Numa Pompilius]

Originally Posted by Sammael

Seriously why can't u just assign some intelligence level to these AI monsters and have it based on dmg or their % of health remaining?

Good idea. I'd suggest posting in Sardelac.

detectaoe()
if
smartslvl <= x
then continueattack
if smartslvl <= x
then runaway

"OMG Anet has made teh monsters retarded! The high level ones *always* runs away, but the low level ones will act like spastics trying to both attack and run away at the same time!!!1 They hate farmers!!!1 Im never playing GW AGAIN!!!1"



EDIT: everything considered, perhaps I should be clear - there's a small bug in the pseudo-code. One < should be a >.

[Loviatar]

Originally Posted by uidaho_kid

This is the constructive criticism that I have, and I would like to see if anyone else has any additions, that anet would be able to use, that might help with everyone's ill feelings toward the new patch.

OK

my addition is to have(fire elemental example) the condition continue as they run for the duration of the spell.

example firestorm

you have been hit by a rain of fire from the sky but you stop burning 5 steps from where you were? (not likely)

nope you continue to burn for the duration of the spell at which time damage stops.

does something like that sound reasonable to anybody?

[Guardian of the Light]

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

I'm not replying to any specific point on your post. The defense of farmers on the whole though.

Ebay farming I believe is the root of the farming problem. IF you feel the need, you can buy a million in game coin.

Boom, a noob with a million coin, can buy a runner to get him everywhere, the materials for the leet armor, and the armor itself, and the uber weapons, the sup runes, and everything else.

Not only is that completely unfair, to have the best of every thing all in one day(considering only really, the time of the runs), that's an economy killer.
This guy buys anything at any price cause he can afford it.

Suppose he buuys for the most expensive class as far as runes go, and wants black armor. You know, he wants the popular stuff.

Suppose he is actually one of several hundred atleast.

One, from that many buyers that buy at really high prices, who cares about fair market value, I'm not going to accept less than X-amount cause some ebayer will come along shortly....

The more things are bought in NPC vendors, the more prices rise, right?
(that really is a question, i don't get the vendors for dyes, runes, and materials)

Third, once his(and other ebayers) one million coin actually starts to circulate, suddenly everyone else has more coin too, and everyone else know's it. Prices go up. Single gold value goes down.

Alot of people are in ascalon, offering the best weapons for alot of money, they want the ebayers money. Cause they know it's on the noobs. They're not selling in Lions arch, because even though you don't find many leet weapons being sold there, you know everyone has them.

Any runner asking for people to pay him to picken or yaks are the only ones that are trying to scrape up some normal in game case.

I've seen people in ascalon offering runs to droks and other such players, they encourage the ebay shopper also.

So, if prices rise for the everything on account of the ebayer, well, normal people decide to resort to farming, to get the gold they need/want to get the items they need want.

Am I wrong?

IF not, am I missing something?

Dude this update in INCREASE ebay buyers because lazy people who can't farm and have money in real life will get from ebay or some over place.

Ebay seller don't always use farming after all drokar running brings in a lot of gold too.

And like I said earlier this is also decreasing the amount of players in the game a.k.a. potencial buyers of Chapter 2

This has taken OUT money and items from the guild wars economy and Anet has not put anything to replace farming as a money maker.

[Robos Stavanis]

The problem I am having with this update is not so much my character(s), but trying to keep the ele's in my guild playing. This is going to have a real impact if guilds start loosing folks that don't want to change the skill sets they are using to conform with this latest errr patch. I have yet to read a concise explaination why this was rolled out in the manner that it was.........and would still like to see that explaination as I am sure many would.

[Aeon_Xin]

Originally Posted by Loviatar

OK

my addition is to have(fire elemental example) the condition continue as they run for the duration of the spell.

example firestorm

you have been hit by a rain of fire from the sky but you stop burning 5 steps from where you were? (not likely)

nope you continue to burn for the duration of the spell at which time damage stops.

does something like that sound reasonable to anybody?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...d=1#post671818

SAnitaruim is the idea house, and that's my idea.

*edit below

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Dude this update in INCREASE ebay buyers because lazy people who can't farm and have money in real life will get from ebay or some over place.

Ebay seller don't always use farming after all drokar running brings in a lot of gold too.

And like I said earlier this is also decreasing the amount of players in the game a.k.a. potencial buyers of Chapter 2

This has taken OUT money and items from the guild wars economy and Anet has not put anything to replace farming as a money maker.

That is my point. Aside from your first sentence, it didn't really make sense.

More and more farming begets more and more farming, for the reasons I explained above, and as you said, it encourages more ebay shoppers also.

I agree that farming should be stopped, BUT, this patch wasn't the way to go about it. Like you said, it's driving off potential future customers.

There are a plethora of ideas to patch or fix the economy in the sanitarium section and discussion of how to fix the probelm the game has should be there.(I don't agree that the idea house should be the sanitarium, just by what a sanitarium is in definition)

[Guardian of the Light]

I still can't figure out where the complaints were about this if any and if there are not any why does Anet think solo-farming is so "cheap"

if there are any complaints about solo-farming before the update can someone give me a link to it?

[Fantus]

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

I'm not replying to any specific point on your post. The defense of farmers on the whole though.

Ebay farming I believe is the root of the farming problem. IF you feel the need, you can buy a million in game coin.

[...]

Am I wrong?

IF not, am I missing something?

Nope, you are completly right. I am defending legit farming. Ebaying is not legit farming, it's cheating. I don't respect ebayers and I think they should be removed from the game as quickly and throughly as possible. I think most legit farmers hate ebayers as much as I do. We WORK for our money, they don't. They are too lazy too play the game, but they still want everything basically for free. As I said, they are lowly cheaters, nothing else.

The bad thing is that most measures directed against ebayers will hit legit farmers even more than them.