Guild Wars Depression - Solutions?

[moriz]

Originally Posted by Magikarp

explain where this was ever expressed by anet and i'll agree, but until then, you have to realize that over half of the community hasn't ever even tried pvp, so to cater to only pvp (which they did for years, and my i add poorly), is simply letting down a major, if not the most important aspect of the game, and what keeps the majority of paying customers buying your next game.

you can use circumstantial evidence: GW prophecies effectively lacked any endgame content, with very well developed pvp system right off the bat. GW factions has pvp interwoven with the storyline.

whatever happened since then, GW was designed with a pvp-based endgame in mind. there is nothing you can say against that.

or of course, you can search up a particular video interview where an anet dev specifically said that GW's endgame is pvp.

and if you still don't believe me, then you can look at the top gvg'ers these days. they are amongst the richest players in the game, without doing much pve at all. a game's endgame rewards those who play the game like it should. it should be no surprise that pvp'ers are getting rather rich these days because of it.

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by Hiotoko

I believe some of you are confusing the term depression with deflation(which is what is happening here). Just because your ectos, which aren't actually cash until liquidated but an investment, aren't of the same high value as they were before doesn't mean that the market has collapsed. For the average player, I'd say it's never been better. Greens are easily affordable, most materials aren't at excessive prices, and gold is very easy to come by through normal play.

i agreed with you up until "gold is very easy to come by through normal play", because unless you farm a particular material or object worth value, then SELL it, there is no form of hard, untouched gold in this game, minus maybe brain numbing raptor farming. otherwise, you're forced to merch, or sell to the severely missing consumer, who is only willing to pay for what they want, seeing as this game has nothing to offer that we need.

Originally Posted by moriz

you can use circumstantial evidence: GW prophecies effectively lacked any endgame content, with very well developed pvp system right off the bat. GW factions has pvp interwoven with the storyline.

whatever happened since then, GW was designed with a pvp-based endgame in mind. there is nothing you can say against that.

or of course, you can search up a particular video interview where an anet dev specifically said that GW's endgame is pvp.

and if you still don't believe me, then you can look at the top gvg'ers these days. they are amongst the richest players in the game, without doing much pve at all. a game's endgame rewards those who play the game like it should. it should be no surprise that pvp'ers are getting rather rich these days because of it.

fair enough, but you can't deny that anet failed to push the pvp spectrum how they initially planned it. sure, the top tier of gvg'ers are some of the most wealthy, but look at the massive gap in what's "rich" and whats not.

snow bunny said something that made me laugh in this thread. "We're all walking around in FoW armor with chaos gloves.

OBVIOUSLY WE'RE ALL POOR RIGHT???????", and tbh, the funny thing about this is yes, you are poor. compare my 5 stacks of ecto, and 15+ tormented weapons to the panda and kanaxai traders, and im so poor, i could barely express a tenth of what they own. is that balance? is that fair? because im sure a lot of others would say no.

ps, im all for pvp, and moreso pvp as the main form of endgame, im simply expressing views in the form of a general pve only player, seeing as it seems very few understand the place at which they stand in these matters.

[Red Sonya]

Originally Posted by Toxage

How about you stop complaining. Money is WORTHLESS in this game. Who cares if your l33t sword of pwnage isn't worth 100k + 500 Ecots?

GO GO Go depression! This way it makes it easier for players to get the items they want, and all you epeen strokers won't have anything to stroke!

lol Toxage you tell em. But, while it makes it easier for a portion of the players to get items they want, it also makes it boring for those that already have ALL of them. It makes the game really only for new players and pretty much says welp you got your 100hrs plus of playtime...tough now no more content for gew.

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

lol Toxage you tell em. But, while it makes it easier for a portion of the players to get items they want, it also makes it boring for those that already have ALL of them. It makes the game really only for new players and pretty much says welp you got your 100hrs plus of playtime...tough now no more content for gew.

its great that new players can jump in and play the game right off the bat, but hell, gws has ALWAYS had that. players shouldnt be able to run in and have Obsidian and 500 ecto right off the bat, but at the same time, "rich" players shouldnt be able to horde all of the games prized items and money stuck in a 1% of players spectrum.

[moriz]

well, you'll just have to take a step back and ask yourself: "does it really MATTER that a tiny minority of players a hoarding all of these items?"

i did a while back, and i came to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. those items they are so desperately trying to hoard mean absolutely nothing in the end. sure they MIGHT receive some silly little bonus in GW2, but i trust anet to ensure such bonuses will mean nothing in the long run also. rare minipets mean nothing to me, especially since my mini devourer will easily devour them all (haha).

until those items actually give those players a distinctive advantage over the rest of us, there's really no need to worry.

[romeus petrus]

The GW economy is already dead, no point in trying to ressurrect it now.

[Hiotoko]

Originally Posted by Magikarp

i agreed with you up until "gold is very easy to come by through normal play", because unless you farm a particular material or object worth value, then SELL it, there is no form of hard, untouched gold in this game, minus maybe brain numbing raptor farming. otherwise, you're forced to merch, or sell to the severely missing consumer, who is only willing to pay for what they want, seeing as this game has nothing to offer that we need.

When was the last time you played through missions and didn't spend anything on unnecessary items(15k armor, rare weapons, etc.)? With free treasures in NF, merching white drops, salvaging/selling the occasional rare, and receiving gold from missions/quests, it's easy to save up quite a bit of gold. The average casual player who plays with parties and doesn't solo has more ways to obtain gold than his counterpart two or three years ago.

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by moriz

well, you'll just have to take a step back and ask yourself: "does it really MATTER that a tiny minority of players a hoarding all of these items?"

i did a while back, and i came to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter. those items they are so desperately trying to hoard mean absolutely nothing in the end. sure they MIGHT receive some silly little bonus in GW2, but i trust anet to ensure such bonuses will mean nothing in the long run also. rare minipets mean nothing to me, especially since my mini devourer will easily devour them all (haha).

until those items actually give those players a distinctive advantage over the rest of us, there's really no need to worry.

i whole heartedly agree with you on that too, Moriz, but one thing to really consider is the fact that what that small percent control IS the entire endgame/highend form of vanity in the game. sure, Obsidian armor is ok (old form of vanity?), and tormented weapons are almost a dime a dozen, but where are the conversation pieces? the "whoa, where'd ya' get that mr?" items? they don't exist tbh, and i think that's where anet needs to step in. Make some bosses harder, give them some cool skins, or maybe even a boss that drops parts to a puzzle for a green or armor or something, who knows.. i know anet doesn't have a clue though

Originally Posted by Hiotoko

When was the last time you played through missions and didn't spend anything on unnecessary items(15k armor, rare weapons, etc.)? With free treasures in NF, merching white drops, salvaging/selling the occasional rare, and receiving gold from missions/quests, it's easy to save up quite a bit of gold. The average casual player who plays with parties and doesn't solo has more ways to obtain gold than his counterpart two or three years ago.

other than the Treasure chest that most people either don't know about, or care to remember, there isn't anything you listed that we didn't have in proph 3 years ago with zero lootscaling. Btw, the casual player rarely plays much of HM, and in that light, even less of "highend" pve, meaning the cashflow is even less than average for a player such as you and i to achieve while playing through in say, HM EotN. Most players never break 20k ever, meaning they're view of the game is that of a very skewed, uncomfortable playstyle.

[Sha Noran]

Honestly this thread has no where to go.

It has already been announced that GW2 is the next step; a lack of new things to achieve in the GW1 economy, while coupled with the effect of time's continual passage simply means that things will continue to devalue until worthlessness. I project all GW1 items will reach this level of value approximately one year before GW2 release, assuming the current decay only remains constant or gets worse.

If you are so stuck in your Guild Wars dream world that you cannot grasp the concept of a game dying, then consider for a moment the following real-world example:

It is announced that all production on vehicles that run on tires will be halted by 2010 due to the invention of the flying car. Not only that, but this flying car runs on banana peels instead of gasoline. It is only logical and natural that all tire-using vehicles, tires, and gasoline will imediately lose some of their value, and that they will continue to lose this value at a constant rate until they are all replaced by the newer, better product; by the time of replacement (but usually some time before this, though this is dependant on advertising and hype), the product being replaced has reached a value of 0.

Your character is the car.
Your armor, titles, weapons, or any other in-game achievements are the tires on your car.
Your wealth, whether it be ectos or gold, is the gasoline that runs your car.

When Guild Wars 2 is released (that is to say, when they release the flying cars), it is expected that Guild Wars 1 (that is, your car, it's tires, and all the gas you have stocked up) will have little value other than the sentimental kind...

ANet have done more to preserve this sentimental value than Ford or Chevy would I'd say; you can complain that the Hall of Monuments isn't perfect yet, but before they can promise you what will show up in GW2 they have to make GW2.

[Hiotoko]

Originally Posted by Magikarp

other than the Treasure chest that most people either don't know about, or care to remember, there isn't anything you listed that we didn't have in proph 3 years ago with zero lootscaling. Btw, the casual player rarely plays much of HM, and in that light, even less of "highend" pve, meaning the cashflow is even less than average for a player such as you and i to achieve while playing through in say, HM EotN. Most players never break 20k ever, meaning they're view of the game is that of a very skewed, uncomfortable playstyle.

I myself don't play HM in any campaign, have never had over 100k in storage, and don't participate in high end anything. The last time I played through Factions/NF with native characters through the campaigns in normal mode I ended up with quite a large chunk of cash as long as I didn't blow it on anything unnecessary. Loot scaling hasn't changed anything for these players so it has little to nothing to do with their income.

[Stockholm]

Thread Winner Sha Noran

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by Hiotoko

I myself don't play HM in any campaign, have never had over 100k in storage, and don't participate in high end anything. The last time I played through Factions/NF with native characters through the campaigns in normal mode I ended up with quite a large chunk of cash as long as I didn't blow it on anything unnecessary. Loot scaling hasn't changed anything for these players so it has little to nothing to do with their income.

im not even going to explain how the mindset of saving money is obviously going to benefit you with money in your example, but alas, scaling and lack of player to player products worth selling in gws does directly affect the economy.


@ Sha, you're right, and i totally agree, but at the same time, the "give it up, wait for gws2" mentality isn't what someone who bought the game yesterday is going to want to hear. it may be ok for us vets, but you have to think of others sometimes too.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Toxage

How about you stop complaining. Money is WORTHLESS in this game. Who cares if your l33t sword of pwnage isn't worth 100k + 500 Ecots?

GO GO Go depression! This way it makes it easier for players to get the items they want, and all you epeen strokers won't have anything to stroke!

If everything is worthless, then why should players care about getting "high-end" items?

[Hiotoko]

Originally Posted by Magikarp

im not even going to explain how the mindset of saving money is obviously going to benefit you with money in your example, but alas, scaling and lack of player to player products worth selling in gws does directly affect the economy.

So tell me then, how is gold not easy to come by then with the new campaigns? Not having enough money to purchase those high end 100k + Xe items does not mean money is hard to earn.

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by Hiotoko

So tell me then, how is gold not easy to come by then with the new campaigns? Not having enough money to purchase those high end 100k + Xe items does not mean money is hard to earn.

money for what? you said you never have had more than 100k right? can you afford the 300+ armors i have? or just my obsidian? or what about even one of my 3 voltaics? no, you couldn't, and unless you just farmed yourself into oblivion, you couldn't. (this isn't bragging, or a personal attack, seriously) and to me, thats not fair, because you're legitimately playing the game that you payed for, yet you have nearly no opportunity to afford the things that keep the game "interesting".. hell.. neither can i.. i'll never have a panda, or a kanaxai, or anything like that (NOT saying you, or i even WANT those items, this is totally just an example). this is similar to the elitism of pvp, and tbh, its something that shouldnt exist in a game like gws. at least thats what they told us...

the economy needs a stimulant.. something worth while, something worth our interest, time, and most of all.. money. something to get us players to start trading again (note, this something is more of a something*s*).

[Cathode_Reborn]

Solution:

Remind yourself that gold/loot/trading were never the main focus of the game.

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Solution:

Remind yourself that gold/loot/trading were never the main focus of the game.

i agree, but the average player doesn't, nor even knows that that's the case. to most, this game is a mixed subject, capable of multiple avenues of gameplay, as most MMO's are. (and the dispute of "gws isn't an MMO" is not welcomed atm)

imho, the game shouldn't "cater" to any particular aspect of the game, but instead balance all non time-based instances and scenarios, so that the game remains playable in all forms.

[Lord Sojar]

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Honestly this thread has no where to go.

Oh no, it does. See that big concrete barrier? This thread is driving directly into said barrier at about 90 MPH, and the airbags are broken.

This is delation based on too much supply, lack of demand. You can't have a depression in an economy based on such simple principles.

[Bryant Again]

Driving? Felt more like falling.

[Magikarp]

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Oh no, it does. See that big concrete barrier? This thread is driving directly into said barrier at about 90 MPH, and the airbags are broken.

my question is, why do people like you feel the need to interrupt a conversation? isn't it possible to discuss something you can't control, can't even affect, and probably won't change, just for the sake of discussion? I'm doing homework, and would like to converse about the game i like to play for fun, whether or not it has any real meaning in life, because i choose to do so. what right do you have to decide whether or not that's "bad"? obviously we find interest in it, and can openly express our feelings about that.

people that have no influence or position in politics talk about it all the time, but do they have any direct feed or affect on the matters at hand? no, so go troll something else please.