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Old May 09, 2012, 04:09 AM // 04:09   #1
mf2
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Default a couple of general questions

long story short, havent played for probably a couple of years, just came back. my favorite character is a Mesmer, who I finally just managed to cap energy surge. the idea with her is to maker her an AoE/interrupter type. I'm a but rusty on heroes, running, etc. i think i'll still play this game for awhile because there's so much depth and variety to it.

Basic skills are
Glyph of lesser energy (energy management)
energy surge
wastrels worry
shatter hex (utility spell to help melee heroes)
empathy
backfire
energy burn

hero basic setups (prob no point in going into detail)
D/Me Melonni: condition auras (ebon dust, thorn, arm of sanc and energy tap and drain ench for energy)
W/ Koss: Thrill of victory/to the limit/dragon slash
MM with mark of pain and weaken armor (disable these two for better AI?)
two protection monks with mark of protection, reversal of fortune, etc.
E/Me Invoke lightning, power drain, leech signet, lightning orb, glyphs.

dont have a hero for my 8th spot yet. one of the things i get lost on is the building your team and where to hunt/run.
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Old May 09, 2012, 06:50 AM // 06:50   #2
godis
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Pvx wiki is a good source of info for builds.

http://www.gwpvx.com
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Old May 09, 2012, 07:21 AM // 07:21   #3
Tess80
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You say you want to be an AoE/Interruptor, but I see no interrupts and Energy Surge is your only AoE (aside from the occasional Shatter Hex). You might want to look into additional energy management too, because you'll run out of energy quickly like this. As for exact skills, the above wiki can be of service. The only thing I'll say in advance is to take Unnatural Signet. It's a staple on almost all domination bars.

As for the heroes, they don't look very good tbh. But then again, I can't say how good/bad they are without builds. PvE is also pretty forgiving, so you can probably handle easier areas without too much problems. Though you should always take a healer of some sort; don't just rely on protection.
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Old May 09, 2012, 10:21 AM // 10:21   #4
Denar
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^Wastrel's Worry is also AoE, but I agree with the point of adding unnatural signet. Free AoE armor-ignoring damage is always a plus. Also mistrust is strong too.

With regards to wanting to run an aoe-y interrupt-y type build, I would recommend running Panic instead (obviously if you need to still cap it, stick with esurge).

As for energy management, Auspicious Incantation pays off even with minimal investment (like, 6+1 inspiration). With esurge on the bar, it might be good to combine with Arcane Echo, or something even like Deep Freeze from the elementalist line you're tied to, because as a 25e spell the return will be quite high and it requires no attribute investment to function as a snare.
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:32 AM // 00:32   #5
mf2
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I think a big part of my problem are heroes. I have looked at PvX wiki before, I think maybe I should start by just doing random runs and trying to get some better equipment and a few elites for my heroes (I have no N elites, for example). theres a mursaat monk boss the same area where i capped energy surge, some aura spell, not sure how good it is but maybe it could help.

I'll switch one of my healers to healing vs protection, i just had them both protection since mark of protection is my only elite monk skill, at least as it stands right now.

i'll check out unnatural signet and i've heard panic is good but if its tough to cap i probably won't be able to get it. glyph of lesser energy has actually for the most part been enough to keep my energy from running out as long as I remember to recast it. I'll check out Incantation though. I will probably keep shatter hex regardless though since it seems to help out my dervish and warrior.
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Old May 10, 2012, 12:48 AM // 00:48   #6
Loki Seiguro
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Best hero build setup is still discord way + 2 mesmer midline and 2 rits.

you could run caller build for it with dw etc. but that gets boring.

the problem I see with your build is that ai is stupip and will cast spells no matter what you put on them. meaning that waestrals is void as it ends if they cast a spell. you could always try and go std esurge mindrack build but who knows how muvh energy some things have
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Old May 10, 2012, 02:49 AM // 02:49   #7
mf2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki Seiguro View Post
Best hero build setup is still discord way + 2 mesmer midline and 2 rits.

you could run caller build for it with dw etc. but that gets boring.

the problem I see with your build is that ai is stupip and will cast spells no matter what you put on them. meaning that waestrals is void as it ends if they cast a spell. you could always try and go std esurge mindrack build but who knows how muvh energy some things have
Yeah one thing I've always had trouble with is figuring out what heroes will really do as opposed to what I want them to do. I've stayed away from mind wrack for exactly the reason you brought up.

After kicking around some ideas, I came up with a couple different ways to go about this. Both would be Me/E with glyph of lesser energy. The additional energy help is one thing I'm having a hard time deciding, leech signet, ether signet, and guilt, drain enchantment, and others all seem like decent options.

here's a few templates that I kicked around, cant figure how to show a screen of the skill bar so have to list them:

10 FC, 10 Ill, 14 Dom
==================
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Ineptitude
Unnatural signet
WW
Shatter Delusions
Signet of Clumsiness
Cry of Frustration
2 of Backfire/Fragility/Shatter hex/Guilt (leaning toward backfire & sh. hex)

9FC, 9 Ins, 16 Dom
===================
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Empathy
Overload or Cry of Pain
Unnatural Signet
Energy Surge
Cry of Frustration
Shatter Hex or overload/cry of pain (whichever i didnt take above)
Ether Signet

They both seem decent. Second build i struggled more with since empathy seems like it wouldnt be that useful against spellcaster types. i figure against spellcasters wait for it to cast a spell, lay on overload, then zap with unnatural signet the same way i would after casting empathy on a melee enemy. PvX wiki PvE domination mesmer uses arcane echo with empathy, but for some reason that just doesnt appeal that much to me. the idea of using deep freeze with auspicious incantation is kind of interesting, though.
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Old May 10, 2012, 01:37 PM // 13:37   #8
Tess80
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Energy on a mesmer is a matter of preference. Power Drain is by far the best choice on heroes as they have the ability to almost always land it. On players, I always liked Drain Delusions in combination with an AoE hex like Arcane Conundrum or Fragility. Another widely used tactic is to take Auspicious Incantation and a high energy spell like Deep Freeze for a big energy boost.

As for the builds, they're better than the first one.

The first build is a nice idea. I've always liked the idea of speccing both domination and illusion. The main reason for this would be to bring unnatural signet and signet of clumsiness, which you both have. You can then bring the best skills from both lines. Cry of Frustration is good, and Ineptitude is a worthwhile elite, so it'll probably work. Though from experience, I've learned that it's usually a better idea to just pick between illusion and domination. As for the optional slot, also consider Wandering Eye. And keep in mind you need a persistent mesmer hex for Shatter Delusions to work.

The second build is pretty good. Empathy is not my kind of skill as it only affects one enemy, but Energy Surge, Cry of Pain, Unnatural Signet, and even Cry of Frustration and Overload are all good. Ether Signet is not my favorite energy management, but other than that, pretty decent. Oh, and I'm pretty sure the Arcane Echo is to copy Energy Surge and not Empathy.
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Old May 10, 2012, 02:23 PM // 14:23   #9
Net The Nabi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mf2 View Post
Yeah one thing I've always had trouble with is figuring out what heroes will really do as opposed to what I want them to do. I've stayed away from mind wrack for exactly the reason you brought up.

After kicking around some ideas, I came up with a couple different ways to go about this. Both would be Me/E with glyph of lesser energy. The additional energy help is one thing I'm having a hard time deciding, leech signet, ether signet, and guilt, drain enchantment, and others all seem like decent options.

here's a few templates that I kicked around, cant figure how to show a screen of the skill bar so have to list them:

10 FC, 10 Ill, 14 Dom
==================
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Ineptitude
Unnatural signet
WW
Shatter Delusions
Signet of Clumsiness
Cry of Frustration
2 of Backfire/Fragility/Shatter hex/Guilt (leaning toward backfire & sh. hex)

9FC, 9 Ins, 16 Dom
===================
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Empathy
Overload or Cry of Pain
Unnatural Signet
Energy Surge
Cry of Frustration
Shatter Hex or overload/cry of pain (whichever i didnt take above)
Ether Signet

They both seem decent. Second build i struggled more with since empathy seems like it wouldnt be that useful against spellcaster types. i figure against spellcasters wait for it to cast a spell, lay on overload, then zap with unnatural signet the same way i would after casting empathy on a melee enemy. PvX wiki PvE domination mesmer uses arcane echo with empathy, but for some reason that just doesnt appeal that much to me. the idea of using deep freeze with auspicious incantation is kind of interesting, though.
On the first bar choose Shatter Hex and Guilt. Guilt has built in energy management, and can really save your ass in times of need. Shatter Hex is just so good because you aren't running Panic or something similar to prevent massive hexes from getting through. AoE damage and removal of the hex? My kinda skill.

Second Bar I'd go with Cry of Pain and Shatter Hex. I was never a fan of Overload, I think its single target damage, as opposed to mistrust, but since you can't run that yet, I'd go with CoP, which is a pretty good Mes skill. Shatter Hex for the same reasons above.

Auspicious Incantation is a good combo too. A friend of mine uses AI with Ethereal Burden specced at like 2. Energy return and more e return when it ends, but Deep Freeze seems like a better idea honestly. Just something to consider, the waves of energy come back to you, I mean.

EDIT: Search either google or these forums for Pawned2. Thats the program most people use when making builds and it has the built in function to create and image of your created build. This makes posting them super easy.

Last edited by Net The Nabi; May 10, 2012 at 02:50 PM // 14:50..
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Old May 11, 2012, 12:38 AM // 00:38   #10
mf2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tess80 View Post
Energy on a mesmer is a matter of preference. Power Drain is by far the best choice on heroes as they have the ability to almost always land it. On players, I always liked Drain Delusions in combination with an AoE hex like Arcane Conundrum or Fragility. Another widely used tactic is to take Auspicious Incantation and a high energy spell like Deep Freeze for a big energy boost.

As for the builds, they're better than the first one.

The first build is a nice idea. I've always liked the idea of speccing both domination and illusion. The main reason for this would be to bring unnatural signet and signet of clumsiness, which you both have. You can then bring the best skills from both lines. Cry of Frustration is good, and Ineptitude is a worthwhile elite, so it'll probably work. Though from experience, I've learned that it's usually a better idea to just pick between illusion and domination. As for the optional slot, also consider Wandering Eye. And keep in mind you need a persistent mesmer hex for Shatter Delusions to work.

The second build is pretty good. Empathy is not my kind of skill as it only affects one enemy, but Energy Surge, Cry of Pain, Unnatural Signet, and even Cry of Frustration and Overload are all good. Ether Signet is not my favorite energy management, but other than that, pretty decent. Oh, and I'm pretty sure the Arcane Echo is to copy Energy Surge and not Empathy.
For shatter delusions, i would just use it right after WW, since it's very possible for the hexed foe to use a skill within those 3 seconds, which ruins it. Or thats what the description seemed to imply...maybe they still take the damage if they use a skill and end it early? The thought process was lay WW down, instantly use SD, and that's roughly ~180 damage pretty much instantly. not sure what you mean by persistent hex, but i think you just mean long lasting like empathy or backfire (still two of my favorite mesmer skills, really stings healers and melee types, respectively). maybe that WW/SD combo wouldnt work like i think tho, guess ill have to test it out. If it doesnt WW is kind of a waste, I dont want to rely on a foe not using a skill. seems kind of unlikely. In that case I could substitute it with wandering eye or mistrust if i can get them. I really like the idea of mistrust because I tend to target spellcasters first. This might actually work well because ineptitude should help defensively vs melee types. wandering eye sounds good too. when i make my builds i try to make them effective as possible against both fighter and caster types. so ineptitude, wandering eye would go good for melee types, mistrust and cry of frust to interrupt spells would work against the casters. problem i since most of these hexes end upon a foe doing something, might not always be able to fire off the unnat signet in time.

ether signet = 16 guaranteed energy without having to worry about depending on draining or interrupting.

one last thing i thought of along the lines of Me/E was channeling + attunement + shock arrow, ice spear, etc. that might be fun to try.

Edit: Going to dabble with these two builds

Build 1 variant:
Glyph of LE
Mistrust
Guilt
Unnat Sig
Wandering Eye
Ineptitude
Cry of Frustration
Shatter Hex

While I like sig of clumsiness the interrupt attack isnt a big deal since anybody close should be blinded via Ineptitude. The thought process in general for me is to try and land skills that work vs nearby and in area, adjacent is less reliable. I may switch shatter hex or cry of frust for clumsy sig just to try it out though.

Build 2 variant:
Glyph of LE
Arcane Echo
Energy surge (assumes the spellcasters I target will have at least 22 energy)
Mistrust
Guilt
Unnatural sig
Cry of Frust
Shatter Hex

It's hard to resist cry of pain, but the dmg isnt that good and it also only works on adjacent foes. i canned the idea of wastrels worry and shatter delusions. in practice, it was hard to tell if my idea about triggering WW by ending it early with shatter delusions, and in the process triggering damage from both skills, was working. even if so it didnt seem to be that reliable.

I guess if my gameplan about skewing my skills towards damage covering the greatest area is flawed, let me know, but in my little world, it seems to make sense

oops just realized build 2 has a big flaw...no real melee hex stuff. gotta rework that one, i do like arcane echo with energy surge though.

after some brief testing i think i like build 1 a little better. just seems more flexible. one thing i noticed tho is build 1 i tend to draw a lot of negative attention and start getting beat up on a lot more. build 2 doesnt offer much in terms of counter melee. but that starting out a brawl with 2 energy surges combined with mistrust really puts a hurt on spellcasters quicklike.

Last edited by mf2; May 11, 2012 at 02:17 AM // 02:17..
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Old May 11, 2012, 10:22 AM // 10:22   #11
Tess80
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Whoa, hold on a second there. That's not how it works. WW will only do damage if it lasts its full duration. If the enemy uses a skill, it ends and does no damage. If you remove it, it does no damage either. What I mean by persistent hex is a hex that you know for sure will still be on when you cast Shatter Delusions. If you cast WW and then Shatter Delusions, and the enemy uses a skill between casts, WW will do no damage because it ended and Shatter delusions does no damage because the target didn't have a hex anymore. I usually use Shatter Delusions with Overload myself.

Ether signet is good on paper; it's just the long recharge that most people don't like.

You're right, I like build1 better too... but... but... you took out Signet of Clumsiness. :'(
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Old May 12, 2012, 05:48 AM // 05:48   #12
mf2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tess80 View Post
Whoa, hold on a second there. That's not how it works. WW will only do damage if it lasts its full duration. If the enemy uses a skill, it ends and does no damage. If you remove it, it does no damage either. What I mean by persistent hex is a hex that you know for sure will still be on when you cast Shatter Delusions. If you cast WW and then Shatter Delusions, and the enemy uses a skill between casts, WW will do no damage because it ended and Shatter delusions does no damage because the target didn't have a hex anymore. I usually use Shatter Delusions with Overload myself.

Ether signet is good on paper; it's just the long recharge that most people don't like.

You're right, I like build1 better too... but... but... you took out Signet of Clumsiness. :'(
I figured that might be the case with WW. Honestly, with all the nutso stuff going on while you're fighting, it's sometimes hard to tell what is really doing what.

I bailed on signet of clumsiness (keep in mind im still experimenting with this) because it only affects an adjacent area...its kind of the same reason i avoid chaos storm and things like that, kind of a small area and if you're trying to go AoE, it's not necessarily the best option. Also it's more of an anti-attack skill which are pretty well handled by ineptitude and wandering eye. wandering eye, guilt, and mistrust can all pretty much almost instantly trigger, which makes using unnatural signet kind of hard. basically at this point i can only use it on someone hexed with ineptitude reliably. I like signet of clumsiness but in a way its kind of wandering eye 2.0 except it hits adjacent vs. nearby foes.

Still kind of tinkering with all this, as much as I like shatter hex I may have to ditch it. If it matters, I am mostly testing these builds in the ice floe against the mursaat. they tend to have pretty powerful and diverse groups, since they generally have a healer, a couple of casters, and a couple of melee types. I have found that the mandragor groups in EoN have been tougher for me to deal with, but it could just be because I'm still kind of getting the hang of this build. Overall I kind of see ineptitude being my only persistent hex, which means shatter hex may have to go in place of overload, backfire, empathy, or something along those lines. problem with overload is the danger of accidentally firing it off against a quick skill and not being able to trigger the AoE. basically right now im relegated to using unnat signet on whoever i hit with ineptitude, but maybe thats not a bad thing.

on i side note, i tried a diff build, basically a Me/E shock spammer with glyph of LE, air attunement,glyph of elem power, and channeling, drain enchantment, and shock arrow and lightning javelin. its actually kind of fun and for the most part working pretty well. not overly uber build obviously but decently effective and pretty fun and easy to play.
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