Why are ragners so bad?

[Etang]

I have already put 100+ hours into this game and I have yet to see a good ranger. I have had a ton of one on ones with rangers and they all end up running away. And I the only one that thinks rangers are broken?

FYI I am a monk/ele.

[SOT]

I'm a ranger/mesmer and I have no issues at all. I would love to pvp you to death someday :D

[Textural]

IMO, I think rangers are the worst at soloing. They're better off as a party member because they need more than just a pet to tank while they snipe.

But afterall, GW is a team weighted game so I don't think it's fair to base it on a "one on one". :/

[SOT]

IMO, I think rangers are the worst at soloing. They're better off as a party member because they need more than just a pet to tank while they snipe.

But afterall, GW is a team weighted game so I don't think it's fair to base it on a "one on one". :/

Well, as I tried to tell another poster, I cannot recall its name, something like psychototic or some nonsense, I have made it nearly to Lion's Arch without anything but a healer/fighter, and necro BOT.

I am a ranger, so I must be doing something right...I only use ONE ranger skill for solo adventuring. Mesmer all the rest. I am doing fairly well. So I am confused about this thread :D

[Pevil Lihatuh]

my ranger with about 80 hours play on certainly doesn't suck thank you :P she was using mostly mesmer skills but now i've switched to all ranger skills she kicks ass. as long as you concentrate on making a couple of really strong points then you should do fine.

you're not the only one; someone else started a thread like this. but like this one, the majority of replies disagreed ;) Rangers in GW just don't fit your play style/frame of mind I guess. Or maybe you just played against some people who really suck at strategy; or dont want to die.

[sadrobot]

right now i am lvl 14 R/N and i am starting to have issues with my ranger half. recently i just respecced to almost all necro. in psp i can lay out decent constant dmg but that is it. distracting shot is amazing but most of the rest is boosting damage. though even using skills it still takes a decnet ammount of time to kill people. i kinda agree with rangers being broken ( all of you say that you only use a few ranger things......because they kinda suck?)

[Dreamsmith]

I have had a ton of one on ones with rangers and they all end up running away. And I the only one that thinks rangers are broken?
I've run in to tons and tons of warriors in the arena that end up running away. Same with elementalists, necromancers, mesmers, and monks. I guess all the classes are broken.

Or wait, maybe it's just that most people in the Arena aren't very good players.

Ah well, nevermind. Even though you've never even played a ranger, I'm sure your impression of how good rangers are, based on nothing but watching them in the Arena, is perfectly valid. I know when I've never even tried something, I'm nevertheless fully qualified in pronouncing how worthwhile it is. ;)

[A11Eur0]

Rangers are a good all-around profession, no real skills that are worth focusing on, at least from what I see. They're a great support character, but definitely not a primary. That's pretty disheartening coming from LOTR's Aragorn, who kicked all kinds of behind.

[sadrobot]

i made a ranger primary as i said b4 and therer is no reason to other than maybe the armour or trench coats :P

[Etang]

I've run in to tons and tons of warriors in the arena that end up running away. Same with elementalists, necromancers, mesmers, and monks. I guess all the classes are broken.

Or wait, maybe it's just that most people in the Arena aren't very good players.

Ah well, nevermind. Even though you've never even played a ranger, I'm sure your impression of how good rangers are, based on nothing but watching them in the Arena, is perfectly valid. I know when I've never even tried something, I'm nevertheless fully qualified in pronouncing how worthwhile it is. ;)

I have a lvl 19 R/E its just that I like Mo/E much better that 4 energy regen kicks ass.

[FrodoFraggins]

I've met alot of bad rangers. It's a popular class. I've also met rangers that know what skills to bring to the table, and completely own me.

[WraithlordGV]

I think the rangers that give their class a bad name are the ones who focus entirely on damage, the truly effective ranger focuses on control, and burst damage *when it is needed*

You see a monk peel off from the fight to go res a fallen teammate, he is under attack of course, but healing fairly well, the critical point comes where a nice pin down, and power shot will put him out of the game for good.

You see a ele winding up a huge aoe, poof, distract or savage.

You see a tard hex spammer, use your energy drain shot. Thats your job, you are an opportunist.

again, just my opinion

[SOT]

I've met alot of bad rangers. It's a popular class. I've also met rangers that know what skills to bring to the table, and completely own me.


Finally someone admits it :D

[Manderlock]

I dont belive that i have ever been pwned by a ranger, this is because rangers are for support. If a ranger is doing to much dmg, ill go hamstring and kill him. That being said say Im going to rez our fallen priest, all of a sudden im on my ass. Or me and a warrior a duking it out I have the uperhand, but then im psned and there is NOTHING I can do about it. That is what rangers are for, and can be VERY benificel to a good team.

[Psykewne]

Well i play a ranger/necro and to be honest my first attempt i tried to balance the various ranger skills including a pet plus the necro blood and curse line. It did not go well.

My rebuilt version i ended up with uses only ranger stuff now, with high marksmanship and expertise, a good wilderness survival and a few points in beast mastery i do very well.

I carry one preparation for my arrows, healing spring and whirling defence as my life savers if i get attacked heavily in melee. distracting shot, hunters shot, pin down and charm and comfort animal.

With this set up using a long bow i prepare my arrows, and aim for a pin down first on the most advatageous target (in pve i usually initiate the fight with this) drop a hunters shot to set that target or another runner bleeding. (if im using poison arrows then the enemy is degenning nicely)

Then ill switch to watching the most dangerous caster and use distracting shot to disable skills. If an ally is having trouble and running it lets me set their chaser bleeding with hunters or i can pin down and let my ally escape.

If i get surrounded or heavily targeted i activate whirling defence which lets me set my healing spring while under fire and i proceed to retaliate fire. Whirling defence lets me run if im engaged in heavy melee while avoiding most damage.

So as you can see i deliver effects (can't wait to get those immolation arrows), bleeding, poison, burning, splash, cripple. Can interrupt and disable skills with distracting shot and can survive if i become under fire. I can also aid other team mates in escaping trouble.

For pvp i can take debilitating shot to further hurt casters. I would drop the pet most likely for pvp.

So far i've found that im quite comfortable in most pve parties and have had a blast in random team pvp where i often am found making the warriors limp around bleeding and upset casters disrupting and snatching energy...

So rangers are great really, if i were to mix in some necro stuff for pve i would add blood magic for better self healing, but for pvp go with curses for rend enchantments and potentially other options...

[Jackell]

I have a R/Ele, and I'm good at pvping, just so long as there's warriors and monks to take the heat off of me. I only use one Elementalist skill (gee, I wonder which one), so I'm basically just pure ranger. But my skillbar is set up for three things.

Support my high damage dealers by with 2 strong attacks and a preperation, thereby helping them dropp their target faster.

3 interupts to stop casters from doing their thing, even though I probably won't kill them.

1 slow down to get targets away from my monks.

As a ranger, I realize that, even though I do good damage, I am there to support. To help solidify the rest of my team and round them out. Not too many rangers understand that concept. When we talk about what ranger skills do the most damamge and what ranger builds are high damage, I just hope people will understand the concept mentioned before and take that into consideration as well.

[Bigb04202]

I am a Ra/Me and out about 15 to 20 hours into PvP. I sucked real bad at first do to ranger lack of skills at the beginning and not know how to play. Now I reek havoc in PvP. I believe the Ra/Me is the mage killer I haven’t found one mage to take me on one on one do to the skills Backfire and distracting shot. You spam distracting shot on any mage / monk there usually dead. They run you cripple them and fish them off. I’m not saying that I am the best or no mage can kill me one on one. All I am saying is when you play the ranger right and bring the right skills to PvP he a force to be reckoned with.

[The Red Knight]

Rangers are a more skillfull class then playing a cookie cutter w/mo. rangers are also very hard to build correctly, because there is so much you can do with them.

[Xphile]

Rangers can be very very good depending on what you are trying to do.

If your standing toe to toe and trying to duke it out, your right most likely you'll get owned.

A ranger / mez is extremely good against spell casters though. Usually when I go into PvP I'll either find a spell caster that wandered too far away from a monk, or I'll concentrate on the monk. They really hate backfire and distracting shot.

In PvE I'm 90% of the time the last guy alive on the team, even when I'm tanking. It all depends on how you play the game. Get somewhere up high so you can do more damage per shot, you have longer range so you should be able to hit their spell casters / healers that are behind the rushing warriors.

I especially love any area with undead, as the monk I always party with (he is the XO of my guild) gives me holy damage so I'm doing 140+ dmg per shot.

[Wyld Kard]

This might be a lil off topic but do rangers need a pet? and also I have been wanting to play a ranger due to my well bordome of slice and dice method of playing with my warrior. I am looking for a good balanced ranger build that is a good asset to the team. my guild mates have suggested eaither going ele or mes or necro for my secondary so out of those three which would you guys/gals say would be best. now the only technique i know on using a ranger is gaining high ground and moving around alot while the tanks hold them in place. so plz help me decide plz...

[Jackell]

You don't need a pet, you can survive very well and be just as effective without one.

It's just another way of playing that you have the option to check out. This games great because every class has eleventy-billion ways to play them.

[grimmolly]

I find rangers who own me usually don't do it with damage. The possible exception is traps to finish people off. They control the pace of combat with energy drain attacks, interrupts, and nature rituals.

[SOT]

All I can say in final defense of the ranger class is this:

if:]
ranger: when 15+ marksmanship
+
mesmer: when +12 domination magic

then:]
you: paste on the floor

theoretically speaking of course, I haven't become a god yet :p

[Lasher Dragon]

I have already put 100+ hours into this game and I have yet to see a good ranger. I have had a ton of one on ones with rangers and they all end up running away. And I the only one that thinks rangers are broken?

FYI I am a monk/ele.

Well, for one, rangers ideally attack FROM RANGE. :D

I haven't played much PvP, but from my experience as an 18th R/W in PvE, I know if I saw the typical W/Monk gorilla bearing down on me, first thing is Pin Down, then Hunter's Shot to get you bleeding, then I would hit Lightning Reflexes and shoot you as many times as I can before you close or Pin Down wears off. Retreat, rinse & repeat. Also, I would be keeping an eye out for you to heal and use Distracting Shot.

[Xarian]

The fact is that playing a ranger, whether in PvE or in PvP, requires intelligence. You can't simply use one of the ranger templates in the PvP character generator and beat the crap out of everyone, which is what I see a lot of W/Mo and such do.

Rather than asking why rangers suck, you should perhaps be asking why they have no way to deal with enchantments outside of a crappy nature spirit...

[Jackell]

Rather than asking why rangers suck, you should perhaps be asking why they have no way to deal with enchantments outside of a crappy nature spirit...

True, when I get hexed, all I can do is run to my nearest monk like there's a spider on my shoulder.

"Ooooh ooh, get it off, get it off!!!!

[nechronius]

Rangers just aren't designed for toe-to-toe fighting. No ranger is going to out-duke a warrior class in melee combat so don't bother. Playing a ranger/monk I find that I'm spending more and more time supporting the rest of the PvE or PvP group than actually being the one fighting, other than the occasional distracting shot or long distance poke. Unfortunately that usually leaves me as the last one standing which leads to inevitable death as the warriors chase me around endlessly.

Strictly speaking the ranger class itself does not seem well suited to actual combat. I've noticed that talking about beating others involves relying on the secondary skills to actually finish the opponent. It is a support role class however and can be entertaining to play if you understand its strengths and shortcomings.

[Gh0sT]

Im only lvl 15, but most times in the arena im the one duking out the most damage even more then most warriors...(im a R/E, but i dont have conjure yet so i use R skills only)

I can use all different skills but for example when i use Kindle Arrows + a good attacking shot like dual shot, hunter shot or penetrating attack (warriors) from a high ventage point i can easilly do over 100 damage per shot... (killing a target in 4 to 5 shots), it can easilly become more when they start moving...

The only way i get really owned (which happens a lot if the team is crap) is when warriors (1 i can handle but 2 gets too much usually) are beating in on me, or when i get hexed and like 3 conjure phantasms on me... ...as to quote jackell:

When I get hexed, all I can do is run to my nearest monk like there's a spider on my shoulder.


"Ooooh ooh, get it off, get it off!!!!"

I also use a pet, but thats more because a pet is kickass then because its valuable, on the contrary, it dies pretty quick which gives me a 8 seconds "cant use skills" penalty...
They can be good at getting in the way of the enemy, and when they dont pay attention they are like little DoT's :D

[Xphile]

This might be a lil off topic but do rangers need a pet? and also I have been wanting to play a ranger due to my well bordome of slice and dice method of playing with my warrior. I am looking for a good balanced ranger build that is a good asset to the team. my guild mates have suggested eaither going ele or mes or necro for my secondary so out of those three which would you guys/gals say would be best. now the only technique i know on using a ranger is gaining high ground and moving around alot while the tanks hold them in place. so plz help me decide plz...


I prefer not to have a pet. Number one reason is that you can't pull enemies in PvE. You go to attack something and fluffy decides to bring down the whole army back with it instead of just an enemy squad. I find myself cursing other rangers in my group when they have pets and try to "pull"

[Jackell]

I actually have better luck pulling with Muffin than without. I always found that I run to shoot Mr. Chumba and he brings all the Wumbas with him. But I pretend to attack, and stop, well, Muffin runs dutifully to the mob to draw it's agro, then, realizes that I'm tying my shoe and runs back to me, bringing the soon to be dead mob right to me.

[Lasher Dragon]

I prefer not to have a pet. Number one reason is that you can't pull enemies in PvE. You go to attack something and fluffy decides to bring down the whole army back with it instead of just an enemy squad. I find myself cursing other rangers in my group when they have pets and try to "pull"

I pull with a pet easily. Get a longbow, pick an enemy (not attack-pick, just pick) and use Power Shot. As soon as it fires, click on the ground near your toon. The pet will stop and come back.

[Xphile]

Only issue I have is when the mob he brings back with him is then 20+ monsters.

[Legendari]

I'm a ranger and I'll gladly admit that rangers with bows are pretty pathetic by themselves. As a support class, they are decent and can be the ones to really turn the tide of a fight (and from a distance). I dumped my bow all together and went with a melee build for my R/W... The whole marksmanship line just took too much of a beating from the nerf bat in my opinion. However, I guarantee that if we had met on opposite teams, you might have second-guessed making this post :) I'm sure there are quite a few monks and W/Mo out there that didn't expect my gimpy little ranger to trot up to them and cut them down as if their asses were grass and I was the lawnmower :) In all of the PvP I did yesterday, I think I died from a W/Mo maybe once or twice and it was either because I was getting a little too ****y and trying to fight with half health, or I was the only one left alive and they had monks chain healing them.

[VividDream]

Mo/E? Bring it. R/Me owns you

[VividDream]

Rangers just aren't designed for toe-to-toe fighting. No ranger is going to out-duke a warrior class in melee combat so don't bother.

I've killed Wammos when we were the last two players on our respective teams with comparable health... Pin down and pelt them with arrows. Throw dirt/Whirling Def when they get too close. Savage shot/power leak when they try to signet or healing and you've basically turned them into a low dmg gimp

[Pevil Lihatuh]

heh well i had a very quick go with a half-unlocked ranger in pvp today; out of 5 matches the team i was in 3 times (and i admit im rubbish at pvp :P) lol and 2 of the victories, my ranger was the only one of 2 standing. So he obviously wasn't totally rubbish ;) Admittedly one of the losses for the team, he was last one standing and got totally pummelled on so he went down fast; the 2nd defeat we just weren't very organised.

[FrodoFraggins]

Decide what you want to do with your ranger before you enter pvp.

Do you want to shut down casters?

Do you want to do huge single target damage (Shock sniper?)

Do you want to do a little of everything?

The key to desigining and playing any class really, is to decide what you want your roll to be, and then go from there.

[Macel]

Rangers just aren't designed for toe-to-toe fighting. No ranger is going to out-duke a warrior class in melee combat so don't bother. Playing a ranger/monk I find that I'm spending more and more time supporting the rest of the PvE or PvP group than actually being the one fighting, other than the occasional distracting shot or long distance poke. Unfortunately that usually leaves me as the last one standing which leads to inevitable death as the warriors chase me around endlessly.

Strictly speaking the ranger class itself does not seem well suited to actual combat. I've noticed that talking about beating others involves relying on the secondary skills to actually finish the opponent. It is a support role class however and can be entertaining to play if you understand its strengths and shortcomings.



Totally wrong. My ranger can solo warriors (most people for that matter) in the level 17 arena... You have to realize that rangers ARENT all about damage dealing though. If you fit for nothing but damage you'll do less than a mage and die nearly as fast.. Place the right combination and timing of skills and you can tank nearly as well as a warrior, heal nearly as well as a monk and do damage in between that of a warrior and a full on nuker all at once...

I was able to kill a warrior, toe to toe, who had 2 other warriors and a ranger helping him to try and kill me... (They got me right after, of course)... But that's a good example.

[Last Gasp]

oathshot + throw dirt = pissed off warriors, lol. I've had 3 of them swinging at me(and missing) while I stood there and kept shooting at their healer, hehehe.

[Defafnyr]

I really think a lot of this has to do with play-style. I've seen some classes really do alot played by one person, and totally bite when played by another. I've also noticed that in this game, the class that was the epitome of your playstyle in any other game is not at all the same as in this game.

[RizzleR]

well i'm an ascended lvl 20 R/Me now.

and in the Tomb i can take on a Wo/Mo template pvp char 1on1
and i'm still using my shitty 50 armor (saving for 15k armor).

a good combination of poison,bleeding,backfire and empathy combined with some evading spells does the job most of the times.

its a great class just not easy to master

[Arran_Pellaeon]

Quickly using read the wind, followed by pin down, hunter's shot, and penetrating attack(for that armor piercing goodness) can lay the beat down on many unsuspecting targets. Like everyone's said, it's all about play style.

[sino-soviet]

rangers can be amazing ranged damage dealers or disruptors, the secondary is what is going to make or break a ranger build.

[Xellos]

:P Rangers suck because their beloved elites like Barrage have not yet surfaced. Blame Markis!

[Jackell]

R/Ele

Gale + Hunters shot = Awwwww yeah.

[dbodenheim]

Rangers are support whether its PvE or PvP. Ive won quite a few rounds in PvP with this support build. Ranger/Monk

1. Hunter's Shot
2. Tiger's Fury
3. Apply Poisen
4. Feral Lunge
5. Troll Ungeant
6. Charm Animal
7. Comfort Animal
8. Restore Life

A good shortbow + poisen damage + pet bleeding damage + Tiger's Fury = the other team's warrior dead dead dead. Now you can quickly swap to the monk who is rezzing him. The order to mash buttons is: Apply Poisen, Feral Lunge, Hunter's Shot, rip-rip-rip with Tiger's Fury. Once Tiger's Fury is halfway through its recharge, its Hunter's Shot, Feral Lunge, Tiger's Fury again. Your constantly using skills and constantly SAVING mana. This is a low cost mana build with speedy recharge skills.

Your pet usually is ignored in favor of Human targets which is a bonus to keeping that bleed on. Rangers are ignored on principle. Just help out the warrior and the rest will fall like dominoes. (ps-in PVP i know I could probably lose Comfort Animal since its hardly used, but once combat begins its usually only the first 4 skills that get any use, Restore life is used when possible and Troll Ungeant as a last resort.) Thoughts?

[DraieGardo]

Ranger have alot of potential. the fact that they are largly ignored make them deadly. As for the use of Troll Urgent, that can keep you on the edge of death jus enough to proberly finish the person attacking you especially with Lighting Reflex and Throw Dirt.

[Davion]

Well from the PvE point of view anyways, my level 17 Aradesh is quite a tanker. As of right now I am only using ranger skills and the ressurrect spell for my monk secondary (still looking for rebirth). All I can say is, VERY rarely do I die. Even if I am tanking on 3 level 16 hellhounds, she is still standing ground.
It does very greatly depend upon the individual's understanding of the class they are trying to play. (as for PvP,..I would have no qualms about taking a "few steps back" when faced with an angry warrior bearing down on me; that has nothing to do with lack of skill, but more with preserving it.) The canny player will know when to stand their ground or seek a better footing.
;)

[Zarconis]

I find it quite disturbing that many of you have not even read a small percentage of the volumes of posts and writing on this subject. That is evidenced by many of you stating that you love the R/X and that you are using mostly X skills. The Ranger profession is one of the few in the game that is so balanced that you don't even NEED a secondary.

When you create a character you need to thing about what your goals are. GW makes it fun and "plug n play" but it's not as simple as saying "I want to be L33t in PVP." ... Who doesn't ?

So back we are to goals. Do you want to deal a lot of DOT or perhaps you just want to be able finish off people with some burst damage. Maybe a true support role is your style. Wanna have a go at the front lines ? Everyone of these examples have ranger build equivalents. I'll venture to say that most other classes can do this, but not nearly as effecitively as the Ranger.

Most of you should take a step back and review what the class is all about, or even better what Guild Wars is all about. You need to be specific, there's little room to be a jack of all trades.


DOT Ranger -Marksmanship and Wilderness Survival - Apply poison, Lightning Reflexes (or Tigers Fury), Flame Trap, Hunter's Shot (I also like pin down) Add in the rest of your skills.

Burst Damage - High Expertise/Marksmanship, Penetrating Shot, Hunters Shot, Kindle Arrows, Dual Shot.

Support Ranger - Wilderness Survival High - Traps, Healing Spring is awesome, Troll Ungent for yourself and then Nature Rituals depending on your team makeup.

Ranger/Warrior - Boost your expertise and go mostly for war skills. Apply poison works with any weapon. Ranger's defensive skills are good too.

[Lasher Dragon]

Most of you should take a step back and review what the class is all about, or even better what Guild Wars is all about. You need to be specific, there's little room to be a jack of all trades.
Well said. Coming from a heavy PnP background, I often say GW is a min-maxers dream. Pick something and be really good at that thing. Changed your mind? No problem, pick something else and rearrange everything. The flexibility is so cool, I almost want to try to implement some methods from GW into PnP. :D

[Bigb04202]

If you are going to be a ranger you almost need to bring all ranger skills with you. I don’t see how a ranger can live without having Marksmanship, expertise and wilderness survival pretty much maxed out. My second class is a Mesmer and when it comes to PvP I only bring backfire skill with me the rest are ranger skills. In PVE I bring a few more Mesmer skills with me. In PvP as long as you bring Cripple / Troll urgent / and Defense a warrior going to have a hard time killing me as long as I time things out right. With backfire and distract shot will pretty much shut down any mage if they try to run Cripple them :). Things have worked out pretty good with those combos.I’m not saying you can’t be successful if you don’t use all ranger skills for me personally they just seem to good not to take them.

[butcherboy]

I am having the most fun playing as a ranger/elementalist (lv10) PvE. I chose elementalist simply for the area effect spells. Couple that with a incidinary arrow and dual shot and you can take on a good size party or wear them down enough so your buddies have easy chores. Rangers are more distance support than close support. Last night I cleaned all of the starting area out and only died once simply because I was stooopid. The only thing is is that he seems to take longer to take out enemies *but* that is just perception as it only took me an hour to clean house.

Tonight I will attempt the supply train rescue mission and see how he does against packs of lvl8 char. There in lies the real test.

A hard character to solo is a monk/ranger. I have one, but he just never seems tough enough no matter what I do. Perhaps I need to re-evaluate how I am using him?

[Night Daftshadow]

i find it easy to solo with my ranger/monk at level 12. either with henchmen or with humans, it's a breeze.

[Banta]

As a mes / nec the class the annoys me the most is ranger. One on one I do ok for the most part. But most of the time I don't see them, I'm working on bringing a monk down or running from a warriors and I hear this - thunk thunk thunk and my life is slowing leaving me. Some have had builds that kill me in two shots - I'm not really sure what that is though.

I was with an all neco and me group once (this is in the lvl 15 arena) and we were doing very well. We took down an all warrior group without a problem. Then we went up an all ranger group and it wasn’t even funny. They just destroyed us.

[Valsalis]

(this is a ranger post, just be patiant) I have a N/Me that i have done very well with. The point of the character is to do well in arena battles, not guild vs guild. 4 out of 5 times I can kill anyone one on one, basicly by damaging them when they damage me (backfire/empathy) and draining as much HP as many siphon life and vamp gaze I can pack into the average battle. I am currently 18th level, and my success 1 on 1 has been pretty consistant. Till.... I started running into focused damage dealing rangers(with advanced skills).... even when i wore bone armor (piercing AL bonus). All i'd ever see was my hp bar take a couple big hits, change color (poison), and just continuesly getting pelted with high damage arrows, whenever i have been targeted like this (by 2 DD rangers once) I've lasted about 10-15 seconds. Now I do very well against W/Mo with Empathy spirit shackles etc.... but i can see them coming, if a good ranger can manage to get the jump on me, I'm toast.
P.S. also had trouble with N/W (hard for me to kill).

[dbodenheim]

I agree with what the necro just said. I dont know why it is, but in player vs. player as a ranger/monk I tend to lay the beat-down on necros the hardest. Maybe its cause there already hurting themselves.

[Xellos]

Blame Markis :mad:

[uigrad]

If you are going to be a ranger you almost need to bring all ranger skills with you. I don’t see how a ranger can live without having Marksmanship, expertise and wilderness survival pretty much maxed out. My second class ...

I think Bigb is onto something here. I plan to try a ranger-only build sometime this weekend. Skills for one profession work well with each other, so it seems silly to limit your build to only have 4 skills from a particular profession. Of all of the single class builds, I think Ranger-only is the most feasible. I would expect such a build to excel at both PvE and PvP.

[Davin Kabak]

Not to downplay a Pure build, but the truth is, a well balanced character of any pri/sec class will always beat a poorly balanced character.

The trick is to choose skills that accomplish your goal, and allow you to maintain good energy/health/adrenaline management, so that you can always be using the skills you picked to bring with you. Only time and experience with a particular build will tell if it is the right one for you. Sometimes, it's as easy as changing out a skill or two, that can make the difference between a poor build, and a great build.

Props to Arena.net for such remarkable balancing in this reguard.

[Rotgut The Unholy]

I like how you spent your entire time in this thread stroking your e-peen and contributing nothing of use, GG.

[Manticus]

I have already put 100+ hours into this game and I have yet to see a good ranger. I have had a ton of one on ones with rangers and they all end up running away. And I the only one that thinks rangers are broken?

FYI I am a monk/ele.



You know what 1vs.1 means in this game? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

[Makkert]

You know what 1vs.1 means in this game? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
quoted for thruthery.

anyone that thinks that rangers stink are the ones with limited view.

the point is that many ranger players think: let's do damage! (assumed). a powershot or double shot isn't going to save the day.
conditions can disrupt. a caster who is dazzed/disrupted? a fighter that is crippled/blinded?
Just how effective are those?
And running as a fighter after a ranger...how effective is that? who wins?
yeah, the warrior probably wins the battle...but that at timecost wasted that could loose the war.

Cheers,
Makk.

[crow_killer]

i must admitt it can be rather annoying when 1 on 1 against warriors but rangers have there good points too :) I have a ranger/elementalist and i nuke like hell :D

[Ravyn]

Big is right. Too many rangers try for either the paper uber damage or the R/flavor of the month.

Think support/annoyance and you will kill many.




Ben Locke

[Silvanus]

I've met alot of bad rangers. It's a popular class. I've also met rangers that know what skills to bring to the table, and completely own me.

This quote is right on. I have a R/M and I its not that rangers suck, its that they are a lot harder to master and be effective then other classes. But a player with a ranger who knows what their doing can own.

-Silvanus

[Zarconis]

i must admitt it can be rather annoying when 1 on 1 against warriors but rangers have there good points too :) I have a ranger/elementalist and i nuke like hell :D

Rangers own anything they are designed to, just like to a lesser extent other classes can totally own whatever they are designed to. It all depends on the goal of the build. Your outcome is how focused you are. For warriors I like Throw Dirt for starters after they are missing for 90% of the time, you can have any number of choices, one of which is running.

[Ensign]

It's simply an extremely equipment dependant, top heavy class. Do low level Rangers suck? Hell yeah. They're absolutely terrible - all of their skills are underpowered and overcosted, you're choking on energy already, and you absolutely need a good bow to do any damage at all, which can be a nightmare in and of itself.

Now, once you start leveling, get to the point where Expertise starts to be actually useful (8-10), get access to a good bow - the Ranger starts to be respectable. Once you start tricking him out (Superior Expertise, Zealous strings) he turns into a monster - not quite on par with an Elementalist in terms of damage, but a whole lot more disruptive and efficient - who can argue with 2 energy Barrages?

I would assume that your observations are based on early in the game, where they are absolutely correct - Rangers are a junk class. But like the AD&D mage, they simply need time to grow into their power - by level 20 they're easily on par with everyone else.

Peace,
-CxE

[Friar Tuck]

IMO, I think rangers are the worst at soloing. They're better off as a party member because they need more than just a pet to tank while they snipe.

But afterall, GW is a team weighted game so I don't think it's fair to base it on a "one on one". :/


Exactly. Even in PvE - most of the time - you have to either go with a group on missions or gather up a few henchmen.

[Defafnyr]

It's simply an extremely equipment dependant, top heavy class. Ya know, I just realized, that's one of the things I like about the class. I've played many mmorpg's and I always find myself gravitating to equipment dependant. I enjoy hunting down or crafting the best equipment I can get in game rather than seeking out spells and mana-power.

I like melee, either toe-to-toe or ranged, and I don't enjoy playing finger-waggers. I really like gathering up and finding new equipment. Maybe it's cuz I'm a female-gamer and instead of having to find the right high-heels I'm happy showing off my newest fur-lined leathers. My toon isn't driving a new mustang, but look at that shortbow! *wolf whistles*

[Canook]

well i havent gone through all three pages, but i think i can post a pretty valid opinion. i just got my r/e to lvl 20 and have ascended and whatnot and i know im a force to be reckoned with on the playing field, even without all my elite skills. reason making any ranger dangerous is some of there spells. in pvp ive always gone after monks and defended monks. using bow attacks to disable their healing spells for 20 seconds? haha what a great manouever...also, when you monk is under attack and is trying to run from a warrior, why not use pin down? get ur monk away safely. also ive got high lvl fire magic and i can help weaken foes who are enclosed in an area to make the jobs easier on my warriors, to lend them, "a helping hand"

the way i see it is rangers can be incredibly helpful. they are like the middle person in any scenario. while they do not dish out the most damage at one time, they can do attacks that can be critical in saving/eliminating another characters life. rangers are a great class, and if you combo it right with another class, you can do some pretty hardcore damage out on the pvp battlefield.

[bolvar]

ever played a hunter in wow? then you'll know that nothing is as useless or greedy as them

[Last Gasp]

Anything a ranger does, some other class can do better, imho, except possibly personal evasion, which contributes approximately nothing to a group battle.

[explode9339]

Im not sure about that last gasp, I play a ranger sucessfully in PvP.

Usually we will focus on the healer to start. It begins with my call, then I cripple. Then as the healer starts to run, I bleed, then I poison him. Now you got a crippled, bleeding, poisoned healer - I believe thats total health degen of 9? And this 20 seconds on bleed, and 20+ on the poison, with instant re-apply on both.

Next, while my warriors beat on him, I disrupt his heals with savage shot interrupts. In between I shoot some +20 shots and repoison/cripple/bleed. Without my conditioning the healer usually escapes.
This is only one situation that demonstrates how to use a ranger.

Situation 2 - a WARRIOR rushes me... uh oh...
WHilring defense - for 18 seconds I have 75% to evade his attacks. Usually the warrior will sit there for those 18 seconds, whiffing on me, taking himself out of the game. During these 18 seconds I will cast a heal over time on myself, poison a few of their teammates, maybe bleed a few, then cripple the warrior and back off until my defense is recharged...

As for casters - The very fact that they are soft targets makes my hunter's shots, poinson, bleeding, and power shots hurt badly. I also carry some sort of disrupt for thsoe big spells.

IMHO Rangers are VERY useful for many sitatuations. It sucks when people give them a bad rap when they have no clue what they can offer.

Let me join your PvP party, see what you think.

-Ex

[elorei]

my ranger cant "pwn" anyone in the arena.

however, i sure can make yer team hate me greatly.

rend enchantment. enfeebling blood. barbed trap. poison arrow. shadow of fear. and a bucket of skill interrupts.

sure, half of these things i listed were necro. but ranger comes with fairly beefy armor (damn beefy vs elements), ranged attacks, and enough energy and regen to run them all well.

can i take ppl one on one? not so often. can i shut down multiple warriors and stop the monk from getting off a heal? damn straight.

[Kilguri]

Anything a ranger does, some other class can do better, imho, except possibly personal evasion, which contributes approximately nothing to a group battle.
Quoted for truth.

Yeah, I am the master of evasion, I can solo infuse runs all day long using 5 different evasions and still have health to boot. But other than that I have nothing new to bring to the table, not saying I have nothing, but rather nothing unique.

Why do you get a Monk in your group? to heal.
Why do you get a Warrior in your group? to tank.
An Elementalist? to deal damage.
A Ranger? to support... but, what exactly is the deffinition of support? deal damage? tank? snare? crowd control? a Ranger can do all these (well, not all at once, but any of the following), but has not one defined role that will earn him a place in group.
Or as a friend of mine said, "Rangers are nice filler for the 5th or 6th spot in the group, but I wouldn't hesitate to go on a mission without one".

In pvp Rangers suffer the same fate if they want to go well rounded, otherwise they relay heavily on their secondary. When I picked my secondary a Monk long ago, I did that in thought that I could provide support healing to myself and my group when needed -- you know, Rangers and Monks both being support roles, thought that'd go along nicely. Reality is that to be able to play a truly versatile support ranger, you need pretty much all your attribute points in Ranger skills and thus turning your secondary into dead weight. If I want to do any healing I have to drop points from either Marskmanship or Wilderness Survival, and by that either killing my dps and gimping my arrow attacks or rendering my traps and preparations useless, and while I do believe there should be *SOME* sacrifice made, after giving up any of these skills I end up with a second rate support class, since the little skills I still have left are still better performed by others. But then again, that's the problem with a healing Monk secondary, since I lack Divine Favor, most other classes making that trade would not suffer that much since they'd have their secondary to compensate for their primary.

[Phaedrus]

A Ranger? to support... but, what exactly is the deffinition of support? deal damage? tank? snare? crowd control? a Ranger can do all these (well, not all at once, but any of the following), but has not one defined role that will earn him a place in group.
Or as a friend of mine said, "Rangers are nice filler for the 5th or 6th spot in the group, but I wouldn't hesitate to go on a mission without one".

In pvp Rangers suffer the same fate if they want to go well rounded, otherwise they relay heavily on their secondary.

Not necessarily true at all. There are excellent rangers out there who focus on ranger skills and manage to drop players faster than their caster or warrior counterparts. Most people get hung up on rangers being weak or incomplete because they try to chain slow non-ranger skills with fast ranger abilities. In PvP a ranger can be my worst nightmare...mesmers' interrupts I can probably deal with, necromancers' draining I can evade...but a good ranger will get you no matter where you try to hide; she'll splinter your attention and cause serious chaos and death.

[ ]

[Kilguri]

What you say is true, however what you describe is not a good Ranger, but rather a good PvPer. I'm not saying Rangers are bad, just under par compared to their counterparts.

Also, keep in mind Rangers need a clear line of sight or point blank range to be able to use any of their offensive skills (traps excluded), while Mesmers and Necromancers can cast through obscuring objects, which is a very simple method to countering Rangers, it's just that most people don't even bother with the Rangers and always leave them as the last target.

Another thing is that the consensus among people is that Rangers are a last priority space filler, if someone wants an anti-caster 90% of the time they'd go for a backfire Mesmer.

[Yantaal Silver Leaf]

Im a ranger/mesmer, i think im doing ok,like most people say,if it comes to melee then we are a little screwed, maybe, not always, but obvioulsy we are for long distance, its what we do. We are archers, and that is awlays going to be important in a battle, someone to stand back, help people out, resurect people if needs be, but without an archer, i think people would struggle, at the moment im using mostly ranger abilitues, my mesmer side doesnt impress me aver so much, but i do use a few of their abilities. But over all i think that rangers are an essential part to all good Guilds.

[Tyil Thunder Arrow]

What you say is true, however what you describe is not a good Ranger, but rather a good PvPer. I'm not saying Rangers are bad, just under par compared to their counterparts.

Also, keep in mind Rangers need a clear line of sight or point blank range to be able to use any of their offensive skills (traps excluded), while Mesmers and Necromancers can cast through obscuring objects, which is a very simple method to countering Rangers, it's just that most people don't even bother with the Rangers and always leave them as the last target.

Another thing is that the consensus among people is that Rangers are a last priority space filler, if someone wants an anti-caster 90% of the time they'd go for a backfire Mesmer.

not sure i agree there i play a R/Mo and am dealing 50 to 80 a hit with my specials. I drop es mes necs and monks like its cool. Now Ws give me trouble but hey nothing like a warrior to off a ranger that's how it's set up. But rangers are awesome for pvp. Most times i stand out of the way and destroy targets fast and don't get noticed. some really good teams tend to come for me rather quickly when they see me drop their spell casters in 4 to 5 shots

[Sting]

Well many of you pro-rangers have stated that all you need to do is just bring all of your ranger skills with you and you can do as much as any other class. This sounds great but your already at a disadvantige because its limiting you to just 1 class where everyone else gets to enjoy the best of both worlds. Do rangers suck? No. the biggest issues with them are to get any kind of damage that competes with the other classes is it takes 2 or 3 other skills where it only takes 1 elementalist skill to dish out the same or more DPS(and in a game that limmits your skill slots that is HUGE). The second is the fact that GW has become nothing more than W/Mo and Mo/?? game and we are not as good at taking Warriors out becasue of their armor, that leaves us to monks wich we can disrupt the crap out of but most grps employ at LEAST 2 monks. And lets face it a Ranger as a secondary or Mesmer can do that. My main fun toon is a R/Me but since sitting around for 30minutes or longer waiting for a team that doesnt mind a "filler class" I made a Monk yesterday since out of the 2 only classes that seem to count in this game ATM it takes at least some skill LOL. A-NET has done with the Ranger what DAoC and EQ2 relegated the class to not the "jack of all trades" but more to "master of none". In 1v1 this is a decent trait but thier are no 1v1 that really matter.

[isilwen]

i guess people here dont think out of box on how to use their rangers or what the herd instinct of the gw crowd is i.e flavor of the month class or combo

i play both a monk that finished the game and a ranger that i started, i never had difficulties dropping war/mo or even mages in pvp and in pve pr pvm whatever we call it i can drop mobs fast too that it surprises my groups alot. my advise is learn to play the ranger strategically not just dash in and use same 1 or 2 skills as war or same couple of spells as mage. rng is class you play with thinking on the fly adapting to different situations in each mission or each pvp contest.

[Zarconis]

Also, keep in mind Rangers need a clear line of sight or point blank range to be able to use any of their offensive skills (traps excluded), while Mesmers and Necromancers can cast through obscuring objects, which is a very simple method to countering Rangers, it's just that most people don't even bother with the Rangers and always leave them as the last target.


Your argument is flawed. Everyone except for the physical damage dealers can USE skills/magic (not attack). By the same token, a warrior is nearly useless if the target is obscurred.

Rangers have a variety of skills that can make them a deadly scalpel.

... already at a disadvantige because its limiting you to just 1 class where everyone else gets to enjoy the best of both worlds. Do rangers suck? No. the biggest issues with them are to get any kind of damage that competes with the other classes is it takes 2 or 3 other skills where it only takes 1 elementalist skill to dish out the same or more DPS(and in a game that limmits your skill slots that is HUGE). The second is the fact that GW has become nothing more than W/Mo and Mo/?? game and we are not as good at taking Warriors out becasue of their armor, that leaves us to monks wich we can disrupt the crap out of but most grps employ at LEAST 2 monks. And lets face it a Ranger as a secondary or Mesmer can do that. A-NET has done with the Ranger what DAoC and EQ2 relegated the class to not the "jack of all trades" but more to "master of none". In 1v1 this is a decent trait but thier are no 1v1 that really matter.

Anyone who thinks that Rangers are filler or that they are less than any of the other classes are not using the Ranger correctly. Your problem is that you have a pre conceived notion of what a Ranger is. Unfortunately, in GW, the Rangers are not elves and they are not a master of all. They can however specialize to fill virtually any need in the team, but only at the expense of some other specialized task. This could be said for all classes, except for the Warrior. IMO the Warrior is the one who got shafted. No matter what 8 skills they bring to the table they will always be called upon to tank.

AGAIN, I ask you please to search and read the forums before you post.

The problem with most players, not just the ones who are rangers, is that they don't take the time to figure out what they want their character to do.

Do you want to be an anti caster ? I'll go toe to toe with any Me out there as far as that goes. You name the competition. If the skill level is the same, the Me will likely interrupt better, but the caster will be dead by my hand quicker.

Do you need a healer in a tight situation ? You might find it hard to believe but the Rangers actually have a handful of skills that make it very easy to serve as a support to a decent monk. No profession is as good as having the mo, but ranger (and necros) are the only ones I can think of that can help keep you alive.

Do you want to deal maximum damage ? There are so many skills for this and only 2 main attributes that you'll want to pump on this. It's ridiculous how much damage you can do.

How DOT ? Again, I can create a build for this as well.... it's so easy.


The bottom line on all of this discussion is that you'll have to leave some of the skills you like at home in order to accomplish what you want to accomplish. If you want to be some l33t ub3r Ranger that deals the most damage, can heal, support , lay traps and get out of any tight situation, you are playing the wrong profession. You need to be a w/mo.

I play as a R/mo and I usually end up having to tank a little do to pugs as well as heal my team. During Pvp I go for mostly damage, but in PvE I run interupts and support with one or two offensive skills. Most of the time i can attribute success to my efforts in a bad bug and other times I blend in to the team overall. I rarely ever hear, "Damn Zarconis, what are you packin'?" But the enemies fall none the less. The next time someone goes up against a "knockdown" opponent and after the first one they wonder why they see the skill light up but nothing happens, make sure to put in a good word for "RAGNERS"

I really love how this topic has become so popular. I will now begin misspelling all of my topics to encourage posting.

[Theneler]

Why do you all have such trouble when getting melee'd?
in PvE i have no problem if 2 monsters aggro me. I just lay on a stance, take a couple shots, then put on Troll Unguent, and rarely do i die. Infact im almost always the last alive if im with a group that i dying.

And PvP? If im hanging back perching ( like i do ), and some warrior decides to come kill me, im happy. Sure i lose now and then, but in general hes the one that drops. And this is assuming he gets to me before i see him. And im sure once i have oath shot and barrage it'll be even easier.

And in PvP, if you layer up favorable winds, ignite arrows, and judges insight.... phew look out. Normally i find somewhere high, whip out my longbow, and wait. When you have that stand off between two groups that are just staying outta range... most players dont realize how far a ranger up high can shoot a longbow, and when i hit them for 80-120 dmg, it tends to break their formation pretty quick.

[roselan]

what I see through this thread is that the only way for rangers to make some impact is that the opposite team is doing some, let's face it, noobish, misstakes.

disruptive rangers are not dissruptive as soon as they have a warrior on their back. they are dead. Sure they can bring swirling defense, reflexes, throw dirt, pin down, penetrating shoot, troll perfume. Well that's not a lot left to get disruptive.

High dmg rangers are not even better, as they need to disrupt to deal damage... meaning no skill left for defense. Again as soon as you pound on opposite mage/casters, you are toast, as you attract fire.

The point is that a warrior can kill a ranger pretty fast, but a ranger can't kill a warrior, despise all his tricks, ever. Moreover, a ranger is on par with warriors to kill casters. (Anti-warrior casters works usually quite well against rangers too).

Sure rangers can play well, but the ennemy too. There is some smart wamos out there too ya know ^^

[Lasher Dragon]

what I see through this thread is that the only way for rangers to make some impact is that the opposite team is doing some, let's face it, noobish, misstakes.

disruptive rangers are not dissruptive as soon as they have a warrior on their back. they are dead. Sure they can bring swirling defense, reflexes, throw dirt, pin down, penetrating shoot, troll perfume. Well that's not a lot left to get disruptive.

High dmg rangers are not even better, as they need to disrupt to deal damage... meaning no skill left for defense. Again as soon as you pound on opposite mage/casters, you are toast, as you attract fire.

The point is that a warrior can kill a ranger pretty fast, but a ranger can't kill a warrior, despise all his tricks, ever. Moreover, a ranger is on par with warriors to kill casters. (Anti-warrior casters works usually quite well against rangers too).

Sure rangers can play well, but the ennemy too. There is some smart wamos out there too ya know ^^
:rolleyes:

[Striker Shardale]

It is true, a ranger is nearly helpless against a warrior that is correctly built but then again warriors are a little overpowered or is it just me who thinks that? I mean sure, I can make my ranger piss you off by crippling you then causing you to bleed as you attempt to get away or come at me, lay a trap and then continue to cripple you and deal some form of dmge till you die but even that takes more than just 4 skills.

[Defafnyr]

I'm sure reading a lot of rangers, mezzers, necros suck as primaries threads. Sounds like most of the vocal only hold warriors, monks and enchanters as the best of the best and the only truely necessarry primary classes needed in a group.

[Striker Shardale]

Well, I think it is that the warrior is just far too overpowered. A ranger can easily hold it's own against anything that is not a warrior, the only thing I have found to be affective against a warrior was I think a necro. The thing is, nearly every build is helpful in some way just not the best in most situations. I personally do not think I would be able to do anything other than play my R/Mo or my soon to come Me/Mo and Me/E.

[Sting]

I'm sure reading a lot of rangers, mezzers, necros suck as primaries threads. Sounds like most of the vocal only hold warriors, monks and enchanters as the best of the best and the only truely necessarry primary classes needed in a group.

Cant speak for the Anti-Ranger crowd but my main toon is a R/Me. I enjoy playing a great deal (when I can get a group). But they have some issues that make them less desirable (why take a R/Me when you can get a E/Me and get the same/better results and more DPS). Also alot of it is perception Id care to bet money that if lets say Barrage came down looking like a huge firestorm or some other cool looking effect it would allow rangers to at least SHOW the group they are doing something constructive.

All you have to do is look at the makeup of most groups. 4W/?? (usually w/Mo). 2 or 3 Mo/?? 1 or 2 casters (depending on how many monks). There is NO demand for rangers (Ive been in grps who merge with other grps and im booted imediatly. This usually backfires because my RL buddy leaves with with Monk toon. But it happens 3 or 4 times a night).

[Lasher Dragon]

What a lot of the Wamo playing ranger-haters don't understand is that with a high expertise, such as mine at 12 currently, I can use skills all day long. I can sit there and use Penetrating shot every time it cools down (which works out to about every other shot with a shortbow/halfmoon) and never run out of energy.

[Reaven]

My bro is a ranger-ele. He pwns... But thats either couz he´s had millions of PvP char´s to figgure out what he whanted exacly ;)

[Sting]

My bro is a ranger-ele. He pwns... But thats either couz he´s had millions of PvP char´s to figgure out what he whanted exacly ;)

very constructive feedback LOL

[Defafnyr]

What a lot of the Wamo playing ranger-haters don't understand is that with a high expertise, such as mine at 12 currently, I can use skills all day long. I can sit there and use Penetrating shot every time it cools down (which works out to about every other shot with a shortbow/halfmoon) and never run out of energy.
....So does expertise make your energy (mana) bar regen faster?

[Lasher Dragon]

....So does expertise make your energy (mana) bar regen faster?
No, it just decreases the cost of most of the ranger abilities you would use. 4% per rank IIRC. So, at 12 ranks, all my attacks, preparations and traps cost me 48% less energy. Hmm now I read that according to this site it is 5% per rank... weird. Anyway, that would make it, what, 60% less energy to cast those things? Anyway, since I have had my expertise at 12, I have never come across a situation where I ran out of energy except those mergoyles that drain it.

[Defafnyr]

Okay, I sucketh at math, so please explain in blond terms. Let's say most of my skills take 10 energy each. I put 10 in expertise. Now how much energy do they take?

[Ravyn]

Picking a 2nd profession can cripple a Ranger severely.

1) Are you going to lower your marksmanship and shoot for less?
2) Are you going to lower your expertise and wait longer for energy skill use?
3) Wilderness survival? Are you sacrificing defense and some offense?

TBO, I find warriors quite easy to kill. Half the time, they give up trying to damage me and move on or I kill them while toe to toe.

[ginetti]

warriors, hmph.

Troll ungent for the win.

Otherwise, my ranger does alot more damage than my w/n friend.

In pve he gets all the group on him. I "Ignight arows" and duel shot doing around 150-200 damager per attack.

Not bad eh?

Oh, and yeah casters drop quick vs that tactic.

Vs. a warrior, i usualy get owned.

[TheZoologist]

Okay, I sucketh at math, so please explain in blond terms. Let's say most of my skills take 10 energy each. I put 10 in expertise. Now how much energy do they take?

10 x 4% = 40%

40% of 10 = 4

Your 10-energy skills cost 4 energy points less. They cost 6 energy.

Now what I'm interested in is the possibility of using "General" skills from other professions, i.e. those skills that are available to a profession (or secondary profession) but are not tied to a particular attribute. For example, I have found the Necromancer skill Plague Touch rather amusing to use, and I apparently don't have to put any points into Necromancer attributes to use it. However, there are only two such skills for Necromancers, so perhaps not the best secondary to make use of general skills with. Still better than Elementalist secondary, as their general skills are all tied to spells.

[Defafnyr]

Picking a 2nd profession can cripple a Ranger severely.

1) Are you going to lower your marksmanship and shoot for less?
2) Are you going to lower your expertise and wait longer for energy skill use?
3) Wilderness survival? Are you sacrificing defense and some offense?

TBO, I find warriors quite easy to kill. Half the time, they give up trying to damage me and move on or I kill them while toe to toe.

I found this to be true to my playstyle. I have a second profession, but I stopped carrying any of the skills and took the points out of it.

[roselan]

What a lot of the Wamo playing ranger-haters don't understand is that with a high expertise, such as mine at 12 currently, I can use skills all day long. I can sit there and use Penetrating shot every time it cools down (which works out to about every other shot with a shortbow/halfmoon) and never run out of energy.

Same here, that is nice effectivly. Actually you can chain 3 skillz non stop. (penatring shoot, hunter shoot by exemple) But even by unleashing all my best skillz non stop on a wamo, it does not hurt him that much (and if he has a tactics stance, I nearly don't touch him).

I will drop tactics for survival tonight too, but I doubt it will change a lot.

[crow_killer]

HOW DARE YOU! Rangers own. My ranger has high expertise and wilserness survival. I am a secondry elementalist but somehow i work better with just ranger skills. If you lay a trap and use a skill like whirling defences and troll unguent it can be very hard to kill you. hope this helps :)

[Defafnyr]

I went into the PVP creator today and experimented with a ranger only build.

People are saying that high expertise makes your spells use less energy and they can spam their spells and never run out of energy. But putting max points in expertise in this experiment build shows NO difference in spell cost. It only increases the amount of damage that spell does or as in dodge, the % chance to evade.

Expertise in no way reduced the spell cost of any spells.

So how does high expertise help out a ranger over all except for that particular line of spells?

[Lasher Dragon]

Expertise reduces the costs of all Attack Skills, Traps, and Preparations.

[Defafnyr]

Expertise reduces the costs of all Attack Skills, Traps, and Preparations.
Yea, I compared them too. Putting 12 points (max) into expertise in the pvp creator character does NOT reduce ANY of the spell costs. I compared them all.

All high expertise did to the character's skill in creator was effect the damage output and % to evade in the expertise line. Go check it out. NONE of the spell costs changed a single point.

Spells that at 0 expertise that cost 10 to cast, stayed 10 to cast when raising expertise to max points. None of the spell costs changed, not in expertise line, or any of the other lines

[Epinephrine]

Expertise reduces the costs of all Attack Skills, Traps, and Preparations.

Expertise: For each rank of Expertise the energy cost of your skills of types "skill", "attack skill", "glyph", "preparations", "nature ritual", "shout", "stance" and "trap" decreases by 4%.

So it also does skills, stances, shouts, pet attacks, nature rituals and apparently, glyphs.

Yea, I compared them too. Putting 12 points (max) into expertise in the pvp creator character does NOT reduce ANY of the spell costs. I compared them all.

Then either you observed poorly or the program is wrong. In game it works fine. The cost listed in the skill desciption will not change, only the amount of energy actually used. In addition, the reduction is off the base cost of the skill, and occurs after multiplicative modifiers after my testing; i.e. If you use Quickening Zephyr it boosts the cost of skills 30% - this occurs before the reductionof costs, so if you have 14 expertise and cast a 10 cost skill it costs 7 energy (10*1.3=13, minus the 6 energy savings=7) as opposed to costing 5 (10-6=4, 4*1.3 =5.2=~5)

[Defafnyr]

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.

[Epinephrine]

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.

Then load one up in game. I know it works because I use it every day, and have done testing on it. The displayed cost does not change, the amount of energy used does. Use the skill, see less energy drain off your energy bar. I don't care if your builder doesn't show it, that just means that the builder is wrong. The game has it, and I have tested it. I don't know what kind of proof you need other than the published adata, the word of people playing since the first BWE and the fact that you are basing the supposition that it doesn't work off a 3rd party program, while I am basing it on in game experiences.

[Lasher Dragon]

So it also does skills, stances, shouts, pet attacks, nature rituals and apparently, glyphs.
Cool, I did not know that. I hardly ever use shouts, pet attacks, or glyphs.

[Defafnyr]

I will take your word for it then.

The skill description does NOT change, but if enough of you say that in REALITY it does change in-game during use, that the energy bar uses less, then that's proof enough. But you have to understand, I had to have people who have actually TESTED this post their results.

There are way too many threads and posts where people are spouting opinion as fact, or based on a 5th level character and have no real experience with the "facts" they are trying to use to prove their points.

I've read enough of Epi's posts to respect his results. No offense to anyone else. It's just a bit hard sometimes to separate the opinions from facts without getting info from someone who can back up their opinion.

[Flatliner]

Its because most Rangers don't play the role they are best at. Rangers are best as a Caster-Interuptor. A lot of the rangers I see seem to think they are pure damage dealers and are 1/2 as effective as they should be because of their skills, regarless of if they are good or not.

[Epinephrine]

I will take your word for it then.

The skill description does NOT change, but if enough of you say that in REALITY it does change in-game during use, that the energy bar uses less, then that's proof enough. But you have to understand, I had to have people who have actually TESTED this post their results.

There are way too many threads and posts where people are spouting opinion as fact, or based on a 5th level character and have no real experience with the "facts" they are trying to use to prove their points.

I've read enough of Epi's posts to respect his results. No offense to anyone else. It's just a bit hard sometimes to separate the opinions from facts without getting info from someone who can back up their opinion.

To be fair, I haven't tested it on all skill types. I am surprised to see that Glyphs for example are on the list at GWonline.net; I've never tried them, nor have I tried Shouts that I can recall - I've only so far played R/Mo and R/Me, and an R/W for a short while that I didn't like much. I know the reductions work fine on the Attack Skills, Pet Attacks, Preparations etc... I was a bit annoyed that the skill description doesn't change, it really should so you know when you've hit a breakpoint, instead of having to figure out when you will hit the break points, but now I know them so it isn't such a big deal, and there is the list of costs at http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content/expertise-costs-id1154.php.

[Lasher Dragon]

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.
Even in the actual game, the cost listed never changes - only the cost deducted from your mana bar. Yes, I know, it's weird since skills are usually updated per the attribute(s) affecting them, but the cost deduction from Expertise has never been shown as far as I can tell. I have 12 ranks in Expertise - if I hit a skill that says it takes 10 mana, when I watch my mana bar it goes down by about 5.

[TheZoologist]

I will take your word for it then.

The skill description does NOT change, but if enough of you say that in REALITY it does change in-game during use, that the energy bar uses less, then that's proof enough. But you have to understand, I had to have people who have actually TESTED this post their results.

For expertise 12 (understand that all costs are rounded to nearest whole number):

5 energy skills = .52 * 5 = 2.6 = 3 energy points actual cost

10 energy skills = .52 * 10 = 5.2 = 5 energy points actual cost

15 energy skills = .52 * 15 = 7.8 = 8 energy points actual cost

25 energy skills = .52 * 25 = 13 energy points actual cost

Because of rounding, not every increase in the Expertise attribute produces a change in every skill's cost.

[Bigb04202]

what I see through this thread is that the only way for rangers to make some impact is that the opposite team is doing some, let's face it, noobish, misstakes.

disruptive rangers are not dissruptive as soon as they have a warrior on their back. they are dead. Sure they can bring swirling defense, reflexes, throw dirt, pin down, penetrating shoot, troll perfume. Well that's not a lot left to get disruptive.

High dmg rangers are not even better, as they need to disrupt to deal damage... meaning no skill left for defense. Again as soon as you pound on opposite mage/casters, you are toast, as you attract fire.

The point is that a warrior can kill a ranger pretty fast, but a ranger can't kill a warrior, despise all his tricks, ever. Moreover, a ranger is on par with warriors to kill casters. (Anti-warrior casters works usually quite well against rangers too).

Sure rangers can play well, but the ennemy too. There is some smart wamos out there too ya know ^^

Rangers can make a very positive impact can take down just about anyone one on one. The other team doesn’t haft to make newb mistakes you just haft to make the right ones. Disruptive rangers is what I believe to be the best type of ranger and I tell you why. Mesmer are the best anti mage builds out there but rangers are almost as good not only that a ranger can take a heaver beating than a Mesmer. No ranger is going to bring swirling defense, reflexes, throw dirt all 3 defense you only need 1. You take one defense and pin down time them right that warrior going to be a dead warrior unless he uses an interrupt on you. Back to being pure Disruptive rangers they have Distract shot and Concussion shot both recharge in 10 sec so you can spam every 5 sec if you time right. I know ranger have other disruptive elite powers I don’t think you are going to being over 2 disruptive powers. Ranger can deal decent damage there not the best nor the worse but good enough to kill a mage with quickness. I’m a level 20 RA/Me he my only character and I spent way to long on this game. I am still learning every day playing with my skills in PvP so I tweak and experiment all the time. Unless you actually have a level 14 or 15 ranger its really hard to give a educated answer because you really don’t see what they can do till that level..

[Mouser]

Even in the actual game, the cost listed never changes - only the cost deducted from your mana bar. Yes, I know, it's weird since skills are usually updated per the attribute(s) affecting them, but the cost deduction from Expertise has never been shown as far as I can tell. I have 12 ranks in Expertise - if I hit a skill that says it takes 10 mana, when I watch my mana bar it goes down by about 5.

I was confused about that the first time I played as well. The way Expertise works and is displayed in-game is very misleading. We SHOULD see the real cost of the skill displayed in the bar, modified for Expertise skill (i.e., Power Shot costing 8 points at Expertise 4, rather than 10, as it is currently shown.) Instead, we have to do some math on-the-fly to determine what the current cost of our skills are.

Defafnyr, you're gonna have to accept the fact that Expertise DOES provide an effect, but you can only see it in-game when skills are being used. Build a quick beginning ranger, put at least 2 points into Expertise, then try Power Shot. The skill description will state the cost is 10 energy, but when you actually use the skill, it will only draw 9 points upon use.

Cheers,
-M

[Defafnyr]

Messed around with my 10th level ranger, yep, you peoples are right....and thank you.

[Neo-LD]

Expertise in no way reduced the spell cost of any spells.

?

The energy cost decrease is not shown in the descriptions, but you can see it when you tap the penetrating shot button while at 5 mana and fire it anyways.

[Defafnyr]

The energy cost decrease is not shown in the descriptions, but you can see it when you tap the penetrating shot button while at 5 mana and fire it anyways.
That's exactly what I did. And you are all right. Again, thank you.

[Yukito Kunisaki]

You obviously didn't fight King Jakk or Run Like the Wind.

I've fought alongside the first and heard about the second, but they do the thigns that a ranger supposed to do best.

Run and shoot, run and shoot, run again and shoot. Never get hit...

When a team gets annoyed by that ingenius ranger that doesn't seem to be caught/killed, I laugh... They obviously didn't bring THE SKILL to hurt/counter them or worse....

i.e. I was in pvp fighting and my whole team killed the enemy team save one warrior girl. She kept running, healing our snares, and healing herself JUST ENOUGH to keep a few hp on her bar. She kept running... Lo and behold, I put away my sword and shield, nock an arrow to my bow, and bam, that little bit of hp she was holding on and running with suddenly disappeared...

FOR GOD'S SAKE WILL YOU WARRIORS CARRY MORE THAN JUST YOUR MELEE WEAPONS!!!!!

[Striker Shardale]

Crippling Shot.... do not leave home without it. It bothers me so much how often people run away and will do so for several minutes before collapsing.


I have learned to bring Crippling Shot and Hunter's Shot.
By the way, you can get Barrage and Melandru's Arrows around Thunderhead Keep

[Sekkendou]

To the guy that said rangers can't solo... I did every single quest with just henches. I beat the final mission with just henches. I solo, without henches in Perdition Rock for farming items.

[Rey Lentless]

I can see where this would be the impression. I think it's the class that just attracts a lot of people who aren't going to do very well in pvp, or at least just aren't yet. I don't think it's a 'noob' class, but a lot of role players and new people are drawn to the ranger I think.

I personally have had a lot more success in PVE with my ranger so far than I had with my warrior.

I've seen some good rangers in pvp, but there are fewer of them than the other classes. Coodination with traps, and protecting monks, as well as some very good counter abilities on offense. I can usually counter what a monk's doing in pvp, but if he has a good ranger keeping an eye on me and him at the same time.. it can be real rough. Part of that is my build, but a good ranger is one of the last things I want to see on the other team.

[Xellos]

Its because most Rangers don't play the role they are best at. Rangers are best as a Caster-Interuptor. A lot of the rangers I see seem to think they are pure damage dealers and are 1/2 as effective as they should be because of their skills, regarless of if they are good or not.

Too bad their a joke compared to mesmers. Concussion shot? Please. Requires tigers fury to make it good, and forces you to target that person the whole time. Distracting Shot is decent, but power block owns it. Debilitating shot is the ONLY reason to get ranger for "anti-caster". Mesmer > Ranger in sheer lockdown.

Tombs flavour of the month doesn't allow much creativity for now, but hey, it'll change in a bit.

Ranger is just plain weird. They can do a little bit of everything, but their not super good at anything. The upside though, is that their somewhat harder to shut down.

Run and shoot, run and shoot, run again and shoot. Never get hit...

Too bad GvG and Tombs doesn't allow that to be successful. This isn't counterstrike. Dinky arrows that go "pink" aren't going to make a difference if you can't take the altar or kill the guild lord.

I've made a ranger build that's done over 120 damage in 1 shot, but since it's not zealous, I'm not really sure if it's sustainable. I guess I'm too use to the current playstyle to resort back to chipping away health.

[Neo-LD]

Most people have very few original ideas on how to play ranger besides the standard damage sniper. Ironically, that build is the one that makes rangers so shunned. Anyways, since there is no concensus on how to play rangers, I assume no one will mind a couple of exotic rangers i thought up/played around with:

Try using echo to make dibilitating shot almost 100% spammable. With high expertise and other skills like power drain, ether lord, and Inspired H/E, you can keep going almost indefinatley. Add distract shot and savage shot... and you have a really annoying shutdown ranger. As/more effective than quite a few mesmer builds, too.

Use Quickening Zephyr to Make Quick Shot 100% spammable. With 16 expertise it costs 2 per shot(even with zephyr), add a zealous string and its 1 per shot. Add choking gas or kindle arrows, with barbs/mark of pain/weaken armor on your target, and wallah! A deadly machine gunner.

[Rajamic]

Rather than calling them a support class, I call them the creative class. All the options they have (particularly in Wilderness Survival) let you do some very interesting things.

I think a lot of people still make the mistake that all that matters is how much damage or how much healing a character can do. Admittedly, the Ranger isn't ideal for either. But a trapper Ranger can make someone blind and on fire without even touching them. An interruptor Ranger can really cripple another team.

How many interrupts are as fast as distracting shot and disable the skill for a long time? How many options are as good as Concussion shot for shutting down an enemy? Are you guys forgetting Pin Down? Now with these three attacks, how important is it to be doing big damage? It's not. If you can hit these, you can slow down your enemies damage abilities (pin down the warrior), make one monk under fire from a warrior damn near useless (daze from concussion shot), and make a third character lose one ability for a long time (distracting shot).

Now, two of those 3 skills are under Marksmanship, but do you really need it at 12+ for them to be effective? IMO, no. And you'll have disabled 2 character + one skill on a third, and still haven't dipped into you secondary class. And if you have a high expertise, you'll not have dipped too deep into your mana either.

[Epinephrine]

Use Quickening Zephyr to Make Quick Shot 100% spammable. With 16 expertise it costs 2 per shot(even with zephyr), add a zealous string and its 1 per shot. Add choking gas or kindle arrows, with barbs/mark of pain/weaken armor on your target, and wallah! A deadly machine gunner.

Umm, Are you certain of this fact? I've done some testing, albeit not up to 16 expertise, using QZ with abilities and it seemed to me that the QZ cost was calculated based on the BASE value of the attribute, not on the adjusted. I tested using 10 cost skills, and an expertise of 8 IIRC, which would grant me a 32% drop in costs, resulting in a cost of 6.8 per spell, rounded gives a 7. I ran QZ and was paying 10 per casting, which would imply that the 30% increased cost is an increase on the base cost, as 30% of 7 would be 2.1, which would result in a 9 cost instead of a 10. Granted, the difference is only 1 energy point, and I might have miscounted or something, but I had the distinct impression that I was using a full 10 energy per skill.

[Neo-LD]

quick shot costs 5.

13+ expertise makes 5 mana stuff cost 2. 30% of 5 is a little more than 1. so... hmm Im not totally sure, but I think that makes it 1 per shot, if not than 2 per shot, which is still good.

[Epinephrine]

quick shot costs 5.

13+ expertise makes 5 mana stuff cost 2. 30% of 5 is a little more than 1. so... hmm Im not totally sure, but I think that makes it 1 per shot, if not than 2 per shot, which is still good.

30% of 5 is 1.5, which rounds to 2. Several improtant things need to be addressed to figure this out, so if nobody tests before I get a chance tonight I'll have a look at it. I know that the game rounds costs; the questions are:

Is the QZ cost increase of 30% applied to the base cost or to the adjusted cost?

Is the rounding done on each component of cost before summing or is it applied to the final cost? (e.g., a 5 cost skill at 8 expertise is reduced by 32% to 3.4. The extra cost of QZ, if it is is calculated on the base of 5 energy is 1.5, which could then either be added first, bringing the total to (3.4+1.5)=3.9, which is then rounded to 4, or each cost could be rounded separately, becoming 3+2=5. To distinguish this from other possibillities would require testing at a few expertise levels and skill costs.)

[WiseElben]

Rangers can be very very good depending on what you are trying to do.

If your standing toe to toe and trying to duke it out, your right most likely you'll get owned.

A ranger / mez is extremely good against spell casters though. Usually when I go into PvP I'll either find a spell caster that wandered too far away from a monk, or I'll concentrate on the monk. They really hate backfire and distracting shot.

In PvE I'm 90% of the time the last guy alive on the team, even when I'm tanking. It all depends on how you play the game. Get somewhere up high so you can do more damage per shot, you have longer range so you should be able to hit their spell casters / healers that are behind the rushing warriors.

I especially love any area with undead, as the monk I always party with (he is the XO of my guild) gives me holy damage so I'm doing 140+ dmg per shot.

Very true. I found myself using my Rez Signet every mission because I was the last one alive. Why? Well, because when I notice that the battle is not going our way, I would slow down the enemy, get on top of a hill, reanalize the situation, and then decide what to do. The warriors would get stuck or something in the mob and die, the monks can't keep up with the healing, and the elems die while casting spells. Heh, I guess that doesn't have anything to do with the professions themselves, but how I play my ranger. =)

[WiseElben]

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.

Er... even ArenaNET themselves SAID that Expertise would lower energy cost. Perhaps the Energy cost doesn't change in the skill description, but it does work. Why are you so stubborn?

[Red Locust]

Expertise does make skills cost less, but it doesn't show this on your skill description. Try to cast a skill and see how much energy ACTUALLY gets deducted from your total. I'll tell you right now that it is less than the listed energy cost. From what I remember from playing my ranger, an expertise of around 12 brings energy costs down to about half.

[Nessaja]

he already knows it now, no need to go on and on about it.

I personally love my R/W melee ranger. It's an excellent mage killer and a good tank.

R/N and R/Me are typically annoyers which make life hard for monks, with some traps you can avoid being killed aswell.

[Weezer_Blue]

Rangers aren't bad at all. If a ranger couldn't kill you as a monk ele, there's something wrong with them, not the class. As if Warriors weren't easy enough to kill, any caster class should be a simple pluck of a string for a ranger worth his salt. The reasons rangers suck, is cause a lot of the people who play them suck.

[Shrapnel_Magnet]

First and foremost, I suggest you all to refer to this chart (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content/expertise-costs-id1154.php) for Expertise related questions, if you haven't done so already.

Also, a Ranger using Quickening Zephyr doing one of two things... being very Selfish or complying to a team build. Quickening Zephy may be a blessing to Rangers but I'm not sure if our friends the Monks are going to be overly excited.

Expertise is often considered *BEST* at 14. It's practically a Minimum to run 11 Expertise + 3 from a Sup Rune or a +1 Hat and a Major Rune.

Concussion Shot has it's uses and if you can hit with it, you're going to be causing problems. In reality though, if you're running Concussion Shot, you're looking for 2-5 spells to hit with it, and that's about it. At 14 expertise, Conc Shot is costing you 11 Energy... mighty costly for a "chance" skill.

Distracting Shot has to be the best Ranger Interrupt available. If you look, it has a 3/4 casting time to use it... BUT that just means that you don't have to use your full attack animation. Distracting Shot can fire almost instantly right behind any one of your attacks. Savage Shot and Concussion Shot, however, do not work like this. They must be fired just as any of your other bow attacks.

Speaking of Bows... a lot of rangers are running around with Longbows and other such things... this is hurting their DPS greatly. I was never a big advocate of the Half Moon or Shortbow but I stand by them and find it hard to use anything else. The shortened range is a non-issue in PvP and you can easily switch to a longer range bow if you find yourself too far from the target. In adition to this, as a Ranger myself, I often take the time to view other Ranger's skills in PuG's that I come across. I click on their name and watch what skills they use for a bit and I've noticed that almost no one runs Tiger's Fury. If you want to be doing Damage as a Ranger, you NEED this skill. Either that or Frenzy if you're a R/W.

Dunno if I have much else to say right now... other than a plea to the community to PLEASE stop running W/R in PvP... please. :)

[Canook]

I see no proof of that. I put expertise at 12 and every skill, every one of them displayed NO change in energy cost. None, nada, zip. With 0 in expertise they display the SAME energy cost as putting 12 points into expertise.

Go into the pvp creator and see for yourself. Roll a ranger. Check out the skill costs with 0 expertise. Then load up the max points you can put into expertise. The energy cost of each and every skill remains the same.

I need proof.

uhm....try looking at ur energy, for power shot for example. i have 12 expertise, and when i select power shot, only 5 or 6 energy gets eaten up. even though it may not say it on the skills itself...it happens.

[Hell Marauder]

I will take your word for it then.

The skill description does NOT change, but if enough of you say that in REALITY it does change in-game during use, that the energy bar uses less, then that's proof enough. But you have to understand, I had to have people who have actually TESTED this post their results.

.

The skill description doesn't change, but the actual cost of attack skill does. Try it out in the arena and check your energy. A skill (like Hunter shot) that costs 5 now costs only 3 energy or less. Trust me, expertise DOES reduces energy cost.

[Epinephrine]

PLEASE read the posts. The issue was settled weeks ago. He says he believes it back on the 5th page, on the 18th of May.

[Striker Shardale]

I am just glad I have my +1 hat and +1 shirt to add to my +1 pants so that my nakedness modifier is -3.

[Mercury Rivenswift]

Rangers aren't bad at all. If a ranger couldn't kill you as a monk ele, there's something wrong with them, not the class. As if Warriors weren't easy enough to kill, any caster class should be a simple pluck of a string for a ranger worth his salt. The reasons rangers suck, is cause a lot of the people who play them suck.

Just face it. Rangers blow in pvp. The only reason most people play them now (including me) is for aesthetic reasons. I've never liked playing warriors or spellcasters. I've always gone towards the "rogue" type character. Don't tell me that you are easily killing warriors and monks. Are you doing this in HOH??? I don't think so since no one will take a ranger in their group. This class sucks and must either be buffed or monks and warriors nerfed.

My buff suggestion: Make expertise also add damage to bow attacks.

[rii]

Rangers cant be buffed easily. They dont specialise, and so by buffing them they get to do everything well, as opposed to know, when they can do everything below par. Take healing.... at current healing spring allows a ranger to aoe heal for 50 health every two seconds for 10 seconds.. 500 health. Not bad. What if it was buffed to 100 health every 2 seconds.... Noone would need a monk, a couple of guys with healing spring and your in the money.
Consider damage. Say they made it so that expertise raised damage.. at current you can do about 70 damage a hit. Then, it would be doing about 110! Screw that, 4 hits and your dead..... tigers fury for faster.
Finally, consider interrupts. At the moment, the air time makes it tricky, but say there interrupts were half the casting time. Notice the ongoing trend here? Rangers can do everything, just not that well. Buff them so they can do everything well and they suddenly become the only class worth playing....

[Mercury Rivenswift]

Rangers cant be buffed easily. They dont specialise, and so by buffing them they get to do everything well, as opposed to know, when they can do everything below par. Take healing.... at current healing spring allows a ranger to aoe heal for 50 health every two seconds for 10 seconds.. 500 health. Not bad. What if it was buffed to 100 health every 2 seconds.... Noone would need a monk, a couple of guys with healing spring and your in the money.
Consider damage. Say they made it so that expertise raised damage.. at current you can do about 70 damage a hit. Then, it would be doing about 110! Screw that, 4 hits and your dead..... tigers fury for faster.
Finally, consider interrupts. At the moment, the air time makes it tricky, but say there interrupts were half the casting time. Notice the ongoing trend here? Rangers can do everything, just not that well. Buff them so they can do everything well and they suddenly become the only class worth playing....

Then the solution is to nerf monk healing. That would lower need for monks and warriors and make rangers a more viable option in real pvp.

edit- or maybe it would just make parties get 4 monks instead of 3 to make up for the nerf thereby removing the one possible slot for a ranger.

[Ensign]

The solution is to stop playing garbage Ranger builds. Rangers are the most equipment-dependant class. They are also the most build-sensitive class. If you build your Ranger badly he *will* suck. If you try running with the wrong equipment you're going to stink.

A bad Elementalist will still nuke effectively, bad Monk builds still heal. Bad Warriors will run in deep and not deal damage, but are still annoying. Bad Rangers do next to nothing, and there are a lot of bad Rangers. The fact that they're one of the most popular classes, but that I can readily buy Superior Expertise runes for 15k tells me everything I need to know about the play of your typical Ranger. 14 Marksmanship, 9 Expertise, an Elemental Composite Bow, no attack speed buff, lots of downtime from Preparations...do I need to go on?

The problem with the Ranger is not with the class itself, at least as far as potential goes. The problem exists solely with how difficult it is to realize that potential compared to the other, more popular classes, and with the player trying to make his Ranger effective.


I still don't understand this 'need' for Warriors. What exactly does a PvP team need Warriors for? As far as I'm concerned they're completely expendable in the Hall of Heroes, and you don't really need more than 1 on those maps where they are useful for their armor (Relic, priest-killing maps). I've run several teams without Warriors in the past and will continue to do so, that class is *badly* overrated in PvP.

Peace,
-CxE

[Chev of Hardass]

Gotta stick my 2 cents in here too.

Ensign, as I have come to realize in a couple of threads(the one about the PvE guilds wining about the price of sigils), is absolutely right.

In PvE a ranger stays back and uses ranged attacks. They would also make the best target callers, But, most I have played with are trying to be closer to the target than the warriors and think they do good damage.

Their pets, if they live through the first battle, get in the way of a good monk protecting warrior (me) and only take healing power away from the monk, because you neglect them. Then, when they do die, they don't get ressed. So why did you waste two skill spots again?

I don't know the nature ritual that was cast by someone lately, but it reduced healing spells by some unhealthy amount, why would you do that to yourself just to cast spells a tiny bit faster.

Come on rangers, I am building a ranger (still in pre-searing(bears are hard to get)), if I don't play with any quality rangers I will have to quit letting rangers into my groups.

I would rather have three warriors in PvE than two and a ranger, but I would still rather be the only Warrior even in PvE. Ball em up and call in the Elementalist.

[Epinephrine]

Their pets, if they live through the first battle, get in the way of a good monk protecting warrior (me) and only take healing power away from the monk, because you neglect them. Then, when they do die, they don't get ressed. So why did you waste two skill spots again?

I don't know the nature ritual that was cast by someone lately, but it reduced healing spells by some unhealthy amount, why would you do that to yourself just to cast spells a tiny bit faster.

Come on rangers, I am building a ranger (still in pre-searing(bears are hard to get)), if I don't play with any quality rangers I will have to quit letting rangers into my groups.


Whoa. First, any ranger who is using a pet seriously should be using more than 2 slots. If they are using a pet well you should keep it alive, it's doing a ton for your team. If they are running it on 2 slots it's just an extra body soaking some damage and a really low grade DoT.

Nature rituals are a double edged sword - no ranger should be casting them blindly. They affect the whole party, as well as the enemy. I could have kicked the ranger who put a favourable wind down when facing 6 skeleton Archers and a necrid horseman outside of Bergen's whatever it's called. You step out the door and hand your opponent extra damage - sure, you get +6, to your damage, but they get +6 each. Rituals are great but need to fit the circumstances as well as the team. Running something you think is helpful could screw your teammates - turning all damage to fire might make your armour shine, but it also means that the Life Bond on the monk just stopped working, and the necromancer's Order of Pain and Mark of Pain no longer deals any extra damage. They are great tools and should be used properly. That said, if the party is flexible and discusses skill choices before heading out it can be really useful to run rituals.

I think that the problem is that harder classes to play require better players to make them work.

[Mercury Rivenswift]

The potential of a ranger is nowhere near that of other classes. This game gives you a limited number of skills and attribute points. This means that in order to be successful, you must specialize. Rangers do not specialize very well. Why some people refuse to accept this is beyond me.

[Epinephrine]

Because Rangers specialise well. They just don't specialise in what you want to do. I don't need to convince you that you need a Ranger on your team, but the first time you face a good ranger you'll realise that you don't want one on their team.

[Beqxter]

Don't know why, but I do see a lot of rangers out there. Probably people don't understand how hard they are to play, since on the surface they don't seem like a support class (like mesmers do) but like another attack class - warriors with a hundred-foot swing.

Now I don't claim to be an expert at playing my ranger, but I do claim to understand the challenges in playing one, and am spending hours in arena practicing trying to meet those challenges. It's a lot of balls to keep in the air at one time.

And I love it. It's hard, but a lot of fun. It bums me out that there seem to be so many people out there misplaying the class and mucking it up for those of us trying to help the team effectively. I've played with and against rangers who impressed the hell out of me, and can't wait for observation mode so I can watch what they're doing a bit more closely.

That said, how many people do I see misplaying warriors? TONS. More often than not in random groups, the Wa/Mo will ignore pings, map drawings and basically the whole team and run off into the opposing team, forcing us to either follow him and let the enemy choose the ground or lose 1/4 of our team. Grrr.

I suspect the vast majority of people misplaying the classes do not read this forum, however, and we're spending most of our time preaching to the converted. Sadly.

[Avraamii]

any class is going to seem broken if not played well. PvE or PvP. I know myself a 20 R/E. I can and have taken wars down 1 on 1 in PvP. with no problem. barbed trap, dust trap, pin down, hunters shot. a little apply poison, then when they are hurting and hobbling i ingnite arrows and dual shot. doing good damage, ive got high marksmanship and a max damage bow. not to mention expertise stances thrown in the mix, the war can do nothing to me. its like taking candy from a baby. theyre are so many variables...ok lets throw in serpents quickness. 33% faster skill recharge. a properly built ranger is a real bitch. Especially in PvP.

[Xellos]

Rangers aren't bad at all. If a ranger couldn't kill you as a monk ele, there's something wrong with them, not the class. As if Warriors weren't easy enough to kill, any caster class should be a simple pluck of a string for a ranger worth his salt. The reasons rangers suck, is cause a lot of the people who play them suck.

So distracting shot is a needed skill? Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't 1v1. Second, hitting the distracting shot doesn't guarantee the monks healing is off. Thirdly, concussion shot requires you to stay on a monk. That's plain stupid as a caster shutdown. Caster killer? Please, I might as well nuke them and save myself 30-60 seconds.

Rangers are great, no doubt. But don't all of a sudden think they can "solo a monk". That's just absurd. Anything that isn't completely anti-caster built cannot kill a healing monk 1v1, defense > offense in this game.

The only thing I can see really different for rangers is that they gain a fairly larger amount of height damage in GvG then Tombs. About the only place in tombs that's high is the defender stairs, and it's not so easy doing it if your not the defender.

At the moment, I'm probably still in the newbie ranger group. 14 expertise, 12 marks, then either switch between 120 shots or 9 second tigers fury, you name it. I still don't see them as that great of a damage dealer or annoyer. Their hybrid, and when your team is consisted of cornerstone specialists, a ranger deosn't fit. I rather see a team of 3-5 rangers, that would make more sense, since everyone is more well rounded, rather then a ranger who goes with a balthazaar aura team or a air ele team and wonders why he isn't fitting in. But hey, like I said, I'm clueless. I'm still waiting for Samas friend's to teach me :P

[JoDiamonds]

Rather than asking why rangers suck, you should perhaps be asking why they have no way to deal with enchantments outside of a crappy nature spirit...

Thankfully, the designers are smart and have put limitations into each profession, as well as advantages.

If all classes could do all things, that would be extremely boring (and unnecessary, of course).

[JoDiamonds]

i find it easy to solo with my ranger/monk at level 12. either with henchmen or with humans, it's a breeze.

Um. Not to pick nits, but "solo" generally implies all alone. Henchmen are fine company, but you aren't REALLY soloing at that point.

[JoDiamonds]

I will take your word for it then.

The skill description does NOT change, but if enough of you say that in REALITY it does change in-game during use, that the energy bar uses less, then that's proof enough. But you have to understand, I had to have people who have actually TESTED this post their results.

There are way too many threads and posts where people are spouting opinion as fact, or based on a 5th level character and have no real experience with the "facts" they are trying to use to prove their points.

I've read enough of Epi's posts to respect his results. No offense to anyone else. It's just a bit hard sometimes to separate the opinions from facts without getting info from someone who can back up their opinion.

While I respect a healthly amount of skepticism, I also see no reason to immediately assume most people are liars (and practically call them that).

Additionally, the mouse-over text for Expertise says what it does. While there's too often information missing from attribute or skill descriptions (i.e. Smiting holy damage ignores armor), usually what's there is at least mostly accurate.

Anyway, this isn't intended as a flame, but it seems just as silly to assume people are liars as it is to assume they are always telling the truth.

[Neo-LD]

for the last time people, HE GOT THE MESSAGE. Please no one post here saying anything like "wtf expertise reduces mana cost what are you stupid?" again.

[Chev of Hardass]

So, what steller Ranger will be the one to create a description of how to effectively play a ranger in PvP?

I am not in that position, but I would like to read something like that so I could build a quality character when I do build a ranger.

[Xellos]

So, what steller Ranger will be the one to create a description of how to effectively play a ranger in PvP?

I am not in that position, but I would like to read something like that so I could build a quality character when I do build a ranger.

:P That's what I'm wondering.

[Erace]

Rangers are a very good class with the right build they can pack a fair
bit of damage., im a damage dealer type but i pack a few "mess up skills" for the enemy, Image Burden is a big help because i can keep hitting enemy with arrows without them going to far out of range.

Anyway, rangers may not be the best class, but they are excellent mage killers with the right skills. I love ranger to be honest.

[Beqxter]

There are some ranger builds outlined here that people have made work for them: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17412.

[Erace]

a good ranger PVP character...

Disrupter: Ranger/Mesmer: build mainly on Marksmenship, Domination Magic and Wilderness Survivial. Get a good bow, resonable damage, but it must be fast or skills will have to be VERY accurate with the timing, i found that very hard to do so i changed build.

useful skills would be, Concussion shot, Pin Down, Deliberatin Shot, Crippling Shot, etc
and for mesmer skills; Power Leak, Power Spike, Shame, etc

Try to learn the times of monks healing spells and any other common skills enemy casters use that could be vital to their survivial, if u disrupt them, the enemy is stranded.

another possibility i thought was quite effective is:

Damage Dealer: Ranger/Elementalist: again, Wilderness Survival and Marksmenship are what u should work on, maybe Expertise if u have good skills for it, and pick 1 element to focus on, and chose damage dealing spells, Fire Storm, Flare, etc

I found Ranger/Monk also works well in PVP because u can survive a hell of a lot longer and help ur teamates aswell.

(also a little tip, dont waste skills on beastmastery, it gets in the way and u could put those skill slots to much better use.)

I hope this helps u guys and i hope u have fun using Ranger, i sure as hell am.

[Kishin]

If you're a Ranger/Monk, please, please, please don't try to be a healer. You don't have the energy or the regen for it. Maybe you could toss out a Protection every once in awhile, but healing is something you should not be doing. Focus yourself on other aspects to help your team.

-Eirion

[Erace]

I never said constantly heal, but a cure here in there wouldnt go a miss, if some1 is in a tight spot i think the best waste of energy would be a heal rather than a damaging skill on an enemy.

[JoDiamonds]

for the last time people, HE GOT THE MESSAGE. Please no one post here saying anything like "wtf expertise reduces mana cost what are you stupid?" again.

For the first time, I was talking about trust and assuming people are liars. I read every single message, including all of your angry ones assuming that other people hadn't read them.

Relax. Chill.

[Tellani Artini]

You never see a good ranger because good rangers are never seen.

[Beqxter]

You never see a good ranger because good rangers are never seen.

I was about to chew you out because at first I misinterpreted you. I thought you meant that there was no such thing as a good ranger, which is why we never see them. I was all set to go self-righteous and point out that YOU play a ranger, etc. etc.

Then I caught myself and realized what you really meant. And I agree with you. Good point. :)

[Hell Marauder]

You never see a good ranger because good rangers are never seen.

Yea, it's like saying "A good sniper is one who you never get to see". But do you guys think ranger class needs new skills like camoufledge or anything to make a ranger less visible? I think making camoufledge a skill would make a ranger more effective. Something like "invisible until a skill is used", would make ranger class very cool to play. ;)

[Serafita Kayin]

Now I want that!

And good comment on the not seen. I do my best damage when no enemy knows I'm there, cause I can hit him with some of the more easily blocked special arrows a LOT easier.

In addition, with a max damage bow and 12 in marks, a lot of weaker enemies get a warning shot, and the next kills. If I'm using Read the Wind, they don't get enough time to turn around.

[rii]

hehehe, the original primary attribute for the ranger was going to be something called 'stealth'. i never saw it, and in the betas the rangers just didnt have a primary :S. I think it was removed since it would be hard to implement. How can someone be permenantly not seen? and even if they were non visible, couldnt the enemy press ctrl? who knows.....

[Toshiro]

After playing a Ranger to 60 with a butt-load of AApts in Everquest, playing a ranger in this game has been a walk in the park so far. A pet is a great thing, IMO.

Only a lvl 7 right now though, so the middle lvls might be hell, I don't know yet.

Went with the R/Mez set-up, since it seemed the best choice based on what I like.

[Tellani Artini]

After playing a Ranger to 60 with a butt-load of AApts in Everquest, playing a ranger in this game has been a walk in the park so far. A pet is a great thing, IMO.

Only a lvl 7 right now though, so the middle lvls might be hell, I don't know yet.

Went with the R/Mez set-up, since it seemed the best choice based on what I like.

Pets generally become less useful as you go, especially in higher level pvp.

[Toshiro]

Okay, I can live with that...

So getting PvP groups is much harder than getting PvE groups? Or is it like EQ where Rng toons sit around LFG all damn night?

I really do not want to go through that again. I have a pretty firm grasp of what this class can do overall, and if it's gonna be a lot of feeling left out again I'd rather just learn another class instead.

It's been fun up to this point, but all the negative Rng things I keep hearing are bringing back bad memories. :(

[Soulmessiah]

WoW! What a long thread.

The only thing a Ranger needs is a skilled player at the keyboard. Like I saw in an earlier post. Its not hard to hit the heal button or cast a nuke with others to spike, but to play a good ranger you have to be able to do so many things at one time.

I help protect my monks while I spread damage and then I spike when asked. Learn your class learn what it can do, decide what you want to do and do it. The ranger gives you so many ways to be good. I never have a problem getting groups because people I group with know what I can do.

Learn the class it is not gimped at all.

[drowningfish999]

Rangers are good if the player knows what to do and focuses on it. I've seen too many rangers who try to use a variety of skills all at the same time, instead of focusing on one type of play. With my R/N I've been able to get about 2-3 kills a battle in the Tombs with a decent party. In the arenas, I've had some very nice winning streaks.

[ComMan]

Learn the class it is not gimped at all.

In PvP it definetly is. They can interrupt drain mana, but they're not as good as Mesmers at it. They're the weakest class in the game damage wise, even with a pet to help. They can lay traps, but they're weak and hard to use properly.

The "advantage" to the ranger is that it's a "jack of all trades." However, people only want you to DO one thing, and whatever you do as a Ranger, you can't be better than the class that's ment to do that thing.

[Monk E]

I partied with hundreds of Rangers in PvE, and 98% of them are ignorant and annoying. They run off doing the things they want to, not caring about the rest of the party. When they die they blame the party for not helping. They run off in every wrong way luring mobs to the party and run away telling the party to run.

Alot of bad experiences with Rangers.

[ComMan]

Monk E, you know how many people every day say that same stuff about W/Mo's?

Every class has bad players. Bad players are just all over the place.

[Sting]

Okay, I can live with that...

So getting PvP groups is much harder than getting PvE groups? Or is it like EQ where Rng toons sit around LFG all damn night?

I really do not want to go through that again. I have a pretty firm grasp of what this class can do overall, and if it's gonna be a lot of feeling left out again I'd rather just learn another class instead.

It's been fun up to this point, but all the negative Rng things I keep hearing are bringing back bad memories. :(

Yeah thats about it LOL. Welcome to GWs, but to be fair its not all night wait just an hr or two but the real fun begins when you get in a grp and 1 or 2 jerks leave B4 you can finish the rifts (rifts=PvE marale bonus incase your a newer player).

[Tellani Artini]

Join a guild that's active in tombs and your problems are solved. As long as you don't totally suck and make them dread bringing you along, that is. Swap out the defense skills, swap in the offense and support skills.

[Sting]

Join a guild that's active in tombs and your problems are solved. As long as you don't totally suck and make them dread bringing you along, that is. Swap out the defense skills, swap in the offense and support skills.

Eh kinda sucks you have to join a guild just to get a group LOL but yeah it is called GUILD Wars I supose :D .

[riflex]

I'm R/Me13 and I do very well in PvP and PvE with this set of skills:

Penetrating Shot
Hunter's Shot
Distracting Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Troll Unguent
Healing Spring
Apply Poison
Energy Tap

Attributes (approx):

Inspiration 4
Expertise 6 (+1 mask) = 7
Marksmanship 8
Wilderness Survival 7 (+1 rune) = 8

I wear Hot Springs Druid Armor (full set), Hunter's Mask, Minor rune of Wilderness Survival, Fiery Bow 13-21 (req 9) Marksmanship + 1 (11% chance when using skillz). Lightning Reflexes + Troll Unguent + Healing Spring = protects yourself and nearby allies from fighters pretty good. Apply Poison + Hunter's Shot + Energy Tap = half-dead advancing warrior. Distracting Shot is evil when used properly, especially against fools using res signet. I suppose it could be switched out for Epidemic - multiple foes poisoned and bleeding for 10 seconds would render monk almost useless and energy less; if someone were to attack him at that point his poisoned/bleeding allies would all die.

So don't tell me rangers suck, because they are just as powerful as any other class when their skills are used properly. And, as it has been mentioned many times, Guild Wars is NOT made for soloing. Of course my ranger would lose to even a level 9 warrior with brains. If I stay behind and shoot people I can survive for a long time and deliver devastating damage.

[Morte Lisa]

I have an ascended R/Mo and I am a beast. I do not know what you are talking about rangers sucking. If a ranger is focusing on one person then he is just wasting his time, and doesnt know how to play a Ranger. Rangers need to focus mainly on Ranger skills and are the MOST under-appreciated class. In the fist minute of a battle I will havethe whole team poisoned, the monk bleeding, and the warriors crippled. That is even before the rest of my team engages them. After this I am a castors worst nightmare, with constant degen (either bleeding or poison) and distraction of spells. Not to mention, when you play against me, your WHOLE team will be poisoned as long as I am alive.

[..shade!!]

We always use a ranger on our group to do some combos and to make hard damage with traps...
He rend crazy all opponent monks coz of mass degen on all team.

[toastgodsupreme]

Gotta say, I usually won't go into a mission with a ranger leading. Hopefully that'll be different now that I just ascended... here's praying for competent rangers (I've only played with a few who were great, others were just like "Remind me why you're here").

And I know that damage isn't everything. Hell, I'm a Ne/Mo. I raise minions, curse, and heal.

[woodrow]

Recently ran Thunderhead Keep with a Ranger heavy group, 1 W, 1 Mez and a healer. 3-4 rangers firing Barrage at 100' really mows down the mobs there. That mission seems tailor made for the class, if you can keep the meat puppet from talking to the King first that is.

For Shizzles and Gizzles try bumping the equation the other way and run Ranger heavy. Fan out and interlock fire and it's a breeze. Seeing twitching W's green bars with red triangles fading to black is always fun. Although I never seem get close to enough to notice their pretty armor. What a pity! and they spent so much!

I know that 1 on 1 with a W is gonna be tough, but it's a lot easier when they're wearing the Porcupine armor and dragging a foot.

[Shrapnel_Magnet]

I'm going to ask again that people don't post about how they have this super build and leave it at that.

If you want any credibility, at least post your 8 skills so we can see if you're full of shit or not. Build isn't everything, but it certainly counts for something.

[KonohaFlash]

rofl. u are just making yourself sound even worse, but anyway here you go since you wanted it

Zyuu nil is my ranger
z heal, z nil are both me (monks)

edit: just found this.. which u posted at 4am today..

wrong, that was 4pm yesterday and ive actually played a lot of tombs since then. did you read this:

leave your IGN and ill look for you whenever im in the tombs. we'll see who gets the last laugh after you croak in less than 20 secs

ive already been in the tombs genius. and i can still dish out the same damage, kill a few who wander away from their healers. but grouping with nothing but PUGs without TS or vent and whose members, more often than not, leave during/after map loading, i managed to win only a few fights. mostly against europeans and sadly none against koreans.... well not yet. but no worries, as soon as my guildmates catch up with me in dragon's lair and get their elite skills/droknar armor, it will be a different story.

and really Zyuui Nil, im sorry if your ranger didn't work out and if you're one of those who whine about how rangers suck only because you can't do nothing in the tombs. don't put me in the same boat, because i ain't the ranger who settles with distracting shot and frozen soil to be their main role in a group although i also usually bring those 2 skills and use them at the right time.

EDIT: oh and i forgot. i still use my old 15-28 halfmoon bow of fortitude, no additional modifiers whatsoever. my dream modifier is at least 15% additional damage if health>50%. and still no superior vigor rune, not even a major vigor rune.

as for my build Shrapnel Magnet, what you ask will never happen. nobody sane enough will be willing to show their builds to hundreds or maybe even thousands of GW players who read these forums only to either be copied or countered. that's just silly.

but to give you an idea, as i've said, i usually but not always bring frozen soil and distracting shot. but i never bring unguent or any of those defensive stances. im there primarily for offense and sometimes disruption if need be.

[Scaphism]

I'm about fifteen seconds away from locking this thread and throwing away the key. The people involved have been warned, and if I see anymore name calling or baiting I'll close this thread in a flash.

This is a strategy forum, to discuss strategy. If you have nothing to add to that discussion, DO NOT POST. This forum is not your personal battleground. You cannot prove your dominance here, nor can you win a virtual pissing contest here, because we hate the smell of virtual piss.

This applies to both the strategy forum and builds forum: if you do not have a strategy or build to post or discuss, you are in the wrong place. If you post that you have a "secret strat" that you are unwilling to share, expect it to be deleted or locked, because that is neither strategy nor dicussion, nor a build.

[KonohaFlash]

congratulations, your score is 25%. the only skills you managed to get correct are the 2 i've already mentioned. and im well aware that people who target me may see my build - that's why i have stopped playing arena where there's a 25% chance that i'd be a target. the chance drops when i play in the tombs. drops even more for the simple reason that rangers don't get targeted until half of my team is dead.

sadly enough, there was one who may have seen part of my build in the team arenas. all he/she said, after i killed him/her 1vs1(also a ranger), was "*myname*, you DoT *****!"

[Perth68]

well I like my ranger alot, I'm playing around with an interrupt ranger (though it sounds to me most of you are ignoring inciendiary arrows...)

the build I have had the most luck with so far is
R/Me
7 Illusion
9 expertice
10 wilderness mastery
10 Marksmanship

Posion Arrow, Hunters Shot, Ignite Arrows, Dual Shot,Lightning Reflexes, Troll Ungeunt, Conjure Phantasm, Res Sig

any suggestions I'd be glad to hear em, But as far as I can see I do fairly good dmg, though most of its through degen.

[KonohaFlash]

hunter's shot is nice because of it's low energy low recharge spammablility. it also gives the 'bleeding' condition as bonus for moving targets. but you already have conjure phantasm and poison arrow for DoT, that would give a total of 9 degen pips already. no need for bleeding. instead put in distracting shot since you plan to be an interrupt ranger.

[Zyuu]

not even going to bother

id offer advice but im sure you dont want it at this point, and its impossible to give anyways since you refuse to mention your build at all other than its based on degen

btw ive probably played over 500 hours in tombs alone.. and my ranger does fine


perth is that for arena or tombs?

Z

[Chev of Hardass]

I have been working up the courage to build my Ranger, I want him to be a shutdown Ranger.

In an effort to reduce the chance of him sucking, I have been pondering a question.

Would I be better to go Ele Air (blinding flash ect.) or mesmer? I had planned on mesmer, but the reality is, I will know better after I play the ranger to 20 with said secondary profession.

So, I ask this. Which is more effective? and is there another speicalty that one of the two professions can use when not playing a shutdown style?

I have done the profession change thing once and I am avioding that like the plague now. Thanks.

[BustaNutler]

I play a Ranger/Mez, and my personal opinion is it depends on what you want your ranger to do. If you are going for dmg, then elementalist as a secondary is a better route. If you are looking to be a "shutdown" ranger as you said and focus on energy denial and interuption, then I think the mesmer has more skills focused on this area. I personally use Penetrating Shot, Hunters Shot, Distracting Shot, Disrupting Shot, Marksman's Wager, Power Leak, and then usually either a rez signet and another mezmer skill like conjure phantasm, empathy, or blackout depending on what I'm trying to do.

[Scaphism]

I have been working up the courage to build my Ranger, I want him to be a shutdown Ranger.

In an effort to reduce the chance of him sucking, I have been pondering a question.

Would I be better to go Ele Air (blinding flash ect.) or mesmer? I had planned on mesmer, but the reality is, I will know better after I play the ranger to 20 with said secondary profession.
In my eyes, a ranger's secondary profession is largely irrelevant in PVE.
Playing a PVE Ranger is noticably different than any other profession, for two reasons.
First is expertise- it's your best trait, and you wont have usable levels (9, 13, 14) til very late in the game- Crystal Desert and beyond. So you're stuck using cheap attacks like hunter's shot and long lasting preps (kindle, ignite arrows) for most of the game.

The second reason concerns your secondary profession. The ranger can fill his skillbar with primary profession skills more easily than any other profession in the game, monk included (for PVE). Most rangers will focus on Marksmanship then choose either Wilderness Survival (troll unguent is useful, even necessary in the early game) or Beastmastery for a pet.

Between Marksmanship and Wilderness Survival/Beastmastery, you can fill your bar, especially in beastmastery where pets take up 1-3 skill slots.

So my recommendation is to pick a secondary profession you've never played before in PVE, so you can unlock those skills along the way as you do the skill quests to get your ranger skills. It might not be sexy, but it's practical.

Final Note: Blinding Flash is downright terrible on a ranger. It costs you 15 energy, unaffected by expertise, and you'll have low Air Magic so it is going to last ~5 seconds or less on your target. 15 energy for a few seconds of blindness is a bad trade.

If I were playing a R/E I'd probably grab Armor of Earth and possibly Ward Against Melee, and not look back. If you're set on using a conjure you'll have to look elsewhere, but you don't get access to those for a while and that still doesn't address your defense, which I gather is why you want Blinding Flash.

Hope that helps.

Peace.

[Chev of Hardass]

Thanks to both of the replies. I guess my R/Mes will keep trudging along in Pre-searing. I have determined that I must get a bear from there before I leave.

So, anyone that wants to help.........

I have tried the thing with Bane Signet, Hammer Bash, and the Mesmer skill to slow movement to help get them, but no luck yet.

Actually, Ranger/Mes is the last two professions I have not played the PvE through.



One a side note, I have played with two exceptional rangers lately. One I have on my friends list and I'm dragging 'em to the Fissure or Underworld soon. The other, well, left to fast.

[wizowoz]

I have a hated lvl 20 W/Mo (smiter not healer) and I have yet to run into a Ranger/whatever that could take me down 1 on 1. This being said, GW is a team game and the Rangers have an important roll in any team. I would vote for a R/Mo build so that they can have more than 1 Rez on them as for some strange reason they seem to be the last 1 standing in many cases, could that be because the mosters know who is handing out the most damage? If you are counting on the Pet doing your damage for you, you should try again. I have a N/R just so I can have the company of the pet on my missions and to keep the bad guys off of me until I can get some minions. The best reason to have a pet is cuz they are just fun to mess with.

[ShadowWrath]

With the right skills and build, Rangers can take down almost anything.

[Yezah]

A ranger is more subtle than any other class, they do a lot but it doesn't stand out...

They are probably the most difficult class to play well, and also one of the most popular noob classes, which has given them a bad name.

[Kuku Monk]

Why are ragners so bad?

What's a ragner? :rolleyes:

[Epinephrine]

What's a ragner? :rolleyes:

Oh, it's a horrible, gimped class with no ability to kill and to be mocked in public... :rolleyes:

Rangers on the other hand kick butt.

[Spideyknight]

I find it ironic that it's Ranger's that bring a defensive stance to protect themselves, but not Warriors.

[N0MaD]

Well, as I tried to tell another poster, I cannot recall its name, something like psychototic or some nonsense, I have made it nearly to Lion's Arch without anything but a healer/fighter, and necro BOT.

I am a ranger, so I must be doing something right...I only use ONE ranger skill for solo adventuring. Mesmer all the rest. I am doing fairly well. So I am confused about this thread :D

You're confused cuz? ..may be cuz you're using a single Ranger skill..or we can just call you a Messmer?

[Lasher Dragon]

I find it ironic that it's Ranger's that bring a defensive stance to protect themselves, but not Warriors.
Look up Shield Stance.

[chobo321321]

I have a lvl 20 R/me and I play mostly PVP (since there's not much else to do), and my build is pretty solid. Warriors are no problem to deal with especially in a 1v1 situation. You just cripple, bleed, posion, conjure them while they hobble to you, and then they stop to heal, and turn around. Then you follow them and do the same thing (takes about 2 seconds to get everyting off) and you run by the half-dead warrior and go look for some other more interesting targets to play with.

Casters such as mesmer, elementalists, and monks are not much threat to my ranger build. I just spam the same sequence on them turn on storm chaser stand there use troll, and watch my energy and life shoot up. Then I just concussion them and unload another assault of DOT on them.

The only profession I have trouble with are necro primaries they have some nasty spells that kill fast. The only necros I can take out easy are the ones that focus more on their secondary profession. I also have problems with builds that have the same role as mine (mass dot) really hurts this build despite having over 500 hp.

While the build I use won't kill someone outright (due to other teammates healing) I can cause enough havoc so my teammates can focus on a different enemy and finish them off.

Here's my build, go try it out it's pretty fun and can be very annoying for warriors to deal with.

Attribute points
Illusion - 9
Experise - 10
Wilderness Survival - 9
Marksmanship - 12

weapon (some ascalon composite bow - nothing special)
armour (druid set 70 ar)

1 - posion arrow (elite)
2 - hunters shot
3 - concussion shot
4 - pin down
5 - storm chaser
6 - conjure phastasm
7 - troll unguent
8 - res signet

[piercehead]

Almost all your skills are Ranger. Conc. Shot and Pin Down are expensive skills and could benefit from a much higher Expertise attribute (13 at least).
Though I guess if you don't use those 2 that much, you should be okay.

[WiseElben]

I use a similar build (http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25110), and I play similar to chobo. Warriors are really easy to deal with my build. Throw Dirt and Whirling Defense gives me about 25 seconds of ultimate defense (use one, wait until it runs out, then use the other), which is enough time (usually) for me to poison, conjure phantasm, pin down, and damage them with normal attacks. The only flaw in my build is the lack of a simple power shot, like Hunter's Shot. I just can't seem to find a skill to take out...

[chobo321321]

Pin down is only used when a warrior decides to chase you, or a half dead character is trying to run and your whole team is chasing them. Concussion doesn't need to be used often, maybe once on an ele at the start of the battle, so energy for me is no issue. But I highly recommend a druids set of armour for this build my char has 32 energy with 3 regen bars, so it does help a lot.

Like I said it's a fun build and can annoy the hell out of a warrior. If a warrior does start to chase you and you need to constantly pin him down you won't have any energy problems. I've tried the ranger template builds in the pvp section and wasn't too impressed (many i played them wrong), but any idiot can be successful with this one. Maybe they should add it :)

[Thom]

Playing rangers is all about controlling the pace of the match. You have to be able to beat spikes and engage in lengthy battles. The rangers advantage comes when energy bars are empty since you skills are low cost and base damage can be kept high. The current game atmosphere is all about focus fire and spiking targets. The ranger is best when it can take a target 1v1 and make casting difficult as life is slowly drained. Teams the rely on initial spikes won't need a ranger, but teams are learning to beat the spike so a character that can single handedly harass a caster to death is increasingly useful.

Ranger damage was significantly nerfed in testing because I and other would regularly take warriors down solo in the arena. At one point most major teams were using all ranger builds. This is still possible but needs more skill at the moment. Warriors are beatable, but require the right planning.

[Hokutan]

I've met alot of bad rangers. It's a popular class. I've also met rangers that know what skills to bring to the table, and completely own me.

I think thats just it,Rangers are a popular choice in the RPG genre,plus they look pretty damn cool too.
SO new players are very prone to chosing them for thier first charachter,i know i did.Now the thing is ,Rangers are not a real straight forward class in this game,they have quite a learning curve ,and many ,many options of play styles.
So basicly all these people saying rangers suck,have been running into rangers whom are probably still learning about their class and probably aren't using the right skills effectivly.
They aren't like warriors,it requires a LOT of guile to play a ranger effectivly
also timing.
Also Rangers are commonly discribed as "Jack of all Trades!!!" wich they are,but what people really need to realize is,they are NOT a jack of all trades all the time. Choose a trade maybe 2 and build on it.
countless times i have met Rangers who have thier pets out,a long bow in thier hands,they are using interupt skills,dot skills ,pet skills ,and damage skills all at once wich delutes thier charachters abilities in said functions quite a bit.
Choose one,ask yourself,am i an interupter? ,Beastmaster?,am i going to concentrate on conditions to weaken my prey? am i going to launch arrow after arrow trying to deal the most amout of damage per shot as i can?
there are lots of options with this class,it isn't "well i'm gonna run up to him and do my best to kill him before he kills my monk".why do you think W/Mo are so common? because there really isn't much options there,it's pretty straight forward.I'm not saying it's easy by any means ,i am not here to slam warriors at all.just saying it's a pretty straight forward job.

I think as time marches on ,and people start getting a better understanding of the class ,Rangers wont have such a bad name.
Remember the game just came out a few months ago to the masses.
kinda makes since to me that everyones griping about one of the more complex classes being underpowered...

[SirTressman]

Rangers are the only ones who can posien and if u haven't seen a good ranger u have not seen a traper a all out markmanship ranger suck do to the fact that its so ramdom

the only peep that can call a ranger bad is a personl u is a good rangers

a good ranger team has one major advantace its easy for them to hit the called target while caster recharge and warroir run to it rangers already hiting it

[Big Fat Duck]

rangers are certainly a "jack-of-all-trades" as stated by GWG's guides..
it sure covers a lot of fields, but sucks at all of them.. and using ranger as a secondary is not very beneficial

right off the bat :
beastmastery - useless

only one attribute useful for secondary:
expertise = only primary rangers
marksmanship = needs a bow
beastmastery = useless
wilderness survival = only useful one although many skills require a bow

and please dont give me that junk about beastmastery being good and that I "dont know how to use it"

[Tellani Artini]

and please dont give me that junk about beastmastery being good and that I "dont know how to use it"

Beast mastery is good and you don't know how to use it.

Did you play a ranger for about 30 minutes before posting?

[Tengoku No Yushosha]

I'm pretty sure that "Rangers" don't suck. Inexperienced players try and most become better at it, but those who don't even play for more then 15 minutes don't realise the full potential of Rangers. I've beat a few Rangers (-Mostly the pre-made-). I've seen quite a few experienced Rangers. Trappers, Beast Masters, and...something else its on the tip of my tongue....bah nevermind. This is kind of like the Hydromancer situation (-By the way, I happen to be an Experienced Hydromancer :p -) Though not known by they're brute strength (-Not meaning Warriors, but as in alot of damage at once-) but cause problems for the enemy. (-I've only played a ranger a few times, but have seen quite a few and by what they did, I think I have the idea of what they do, not assuming anything :p -)

[Makkert]

i must say that it really takes time to learn how to play a ranger.
its because a ranger maybe has one main target, but also tries to influence the entire playingfield, something made possible with a longbow. i cycle through my opponetns poisoning them, if i see a war chasing my monk i need to cripple, and then offcourse my main target: casters. a combination of delibrating, distracting shot, poison, conjure phantasm and slowly he withers to death.

i had a random arena game with 4 rangers. when the opposing team saw us, one of them shouted (in capitals offcourse, like every 'sane' person): 'LOL! POWER RANGERS! HAAHA"
"I'M SO SCARED"
Then i must say it really felt sweet kicking their team 11-1 in kills. and offcourse calling 'go powerrangers!' over and over while killing them :D

but seriously: i am a bit amazed this thread is still going on. with the trappers in underworld, the spiritspammers in tombs, and conditionbuilds and casterdisruptors in arena's, one would think there would be a little more respect by now...

[Dred Skullord]

I have no problem getting in a team for Tombs or Underworld now. Say goodbye to Elementalists because they are now obsolete.

[Gridou]

I think Ranger isn't a noob class.With trap and powerfull skill you can kill a warrior in PVP.I do that ^^

[stumpy]

rangers are definately not a noob class ... you actually have to READ the skills and understand how to use them together. Sure ... someone can argue about the spirit spam just being laying out spirits ... but do you know what spirits to bring, no ... read them please. As for trapping, it is a good skill ... great if you can keep it constant. But the real power is that rangers have tough armor, plus a great ability to interrupt your character. Stalking a caster isnt easy business and a noob who has no experience in timing can easily get frusterated by * doing nothing * effectively.

Also in the terms of power, rangers really can dish it out ... mostly used in conjunction with there secondary class buffs ... but still very very effective, take along a secondary n/e/mo and your headed for power. Me for interrupt/denial and wa for what ... I think this is the worst combo in the game R/W. (what are you gonna use? stances, shouts, least effective anyways)

[accuser]

all i have to say is i've been playing a ranger...

with my build i usually poison all enemies... then i focus on 1 enemy at a time...

people are always asking me... how are you doing so much damage...
i tell them... this build just works for me.

check it out:

ra/el

Fire Magic: 9
Beast Matery: 1 (from a rune i don't use my pet at all though)
Expertise: 9
Wilderness: 9
Marksmanship: 10

Power Shot
Hunter's Shot
Precision Shot
Dual Shot
Poison Arrow
Kindle Arrows
Conjure Flame
Troll Unguent

I use a firely Ascalon Bow of Enchanting (15-28) and a firey Short Bow (15-28)

i have other bows, but these are my main.
i generally do about 40 - 50 damage per hit on lvl 24 mobs

if i go into the arena's i bring Storm Chaser and a Crippling skill.
i'm always the last one left if my group ever dies. and i have no problems taking someone on 1on1

rangers do a damn good job as a support class... and an even better job as an anti-caster class... it's great to be able to take out monks in a heart beat.

all i have to say is... even with the low numbers in attribute points... i still whoop that ass...

[orzage]

As a Ranger/Elementalist in PvE, I enjoy tossing out the occasional, although rare, AoE fire spell, try to do as much damage with each shot by shifting between two damage enhancing skills, increase my damage significantly with Conjure Flame (my main bow, a max damage Fiery Ascalon Bow of Fortitude, has +15% damage while enchanted), and with Hunter's Shot and Apply Poison, I attempt to inflict poison and bleeding on all the key enemies, and then cycle back through. By the time my group gets around to killing some of the enemies in the back, they're already dead from the combined damage of the status effects and shots. Sometimes I bring Pin Down, Distracting Shot, or Stone Chaser, other times I prefer my pet and Comfort Animal for it's decent tanking abilities.

In the future, I plan on replacing my AoE fire skill with Mark of Rodgort and getting rid of my pet altogether, atleast (maybe) until I can score a Spider. I also intend to, depending on the situation, switch it up with a Lightning damage bow and replacing Mark of Rodgort with Enervating (sp) Charge and Conjure Flame with Conjure Lightning.

Am I a bad Ranger? ;;

[Samuel]

Beast Mastery is not useless. I will admit that I used to think it was, but a while back someone set me straight and now I can't imagine not having Tiger's Fury up constantly with my 12 BM. Plus, there's immensely powerful spirits under the BM attribute, and pets are way, way underrated.

Not useless at all.

[Rebeliel]

I like playing ranger at the arena. Rangers are really strong there. I play with the IVEX trapper build with storm chaser changed to res signet.

In a typical game I lay down traps to protect our casters, cripple chasing or excaping warriors, blind warriors, interrupt big spells like resurrections and resi signet, interrupt fast monk skills by change by spamming distracting shot randomly taking advantage of its fast recharge and low manacost. I also poison the whole enemy team, do some combat trapping against blinded enemies and do some bow damage to casters too.

Being able to interrupt resurrection signet is a great benefit in 4v4. Other classes can do it too, but i think rangers do it best. I mean most of mesmer interrupts only target spells, warriors need to be near their target and elementalist knockdowns dont give any recharge time to the signet.

I haven't much experience playing ranger in tombs, cause I haven't unlocked the skills I'd like to take there. However I had my team devastated by a korean ranger. I believe rangers do very well in tombs as long as they want to play the supporter role. I'd say with interrupts, pin down, traps and smart use of rituals they are very strong.

The poison could be effective too, atleast if you don't have the skills to be interrupter, or your team already interrupts well. Sure monks can remove it, but it takes up their valuable time and a bit of mana too. I don't think a monk can even keep up with a ranger who poisons with every shot. However martyr will make poisoning many targets useless.

[Arno_ed]

Beast Mastery is not useless. I will admit that I used to think it was, but a while back someone set me straight and now I can't imagine not having Tiger's Fury up constantly with my 12 BM. Plus, there's immensely powerful spirits under the BM attribute, and pets are way, way underrated.

Not useless at all.

I always had a pet. since a week in play without one. i love having a pet. the ony problem is that you need 2 slots to have a pet, even when you do not use any petskills (charm animal, comfort pet). that is a lot. However if you really want to make a pet usefull, it is possible, just stack alot of beast mastery skills, and a p[et can be a great weapon.

(i wish they would put charm and comfort in one skill)

[Doppelganger]

Don't forget health degen and/or fragility based Me/R R/Me rangers.

You can pull a nasty little trick by dropping your wilderness survival to very low values and then using incendiary arrow to incite one second of burning per hit. With a high illusion skill and fragility hex, this amounts to burning damage+arrow damage+2xfragility damage for 8 seconds, usually bolstered by tiger's fury. Let's not even mention that your opponent is getting pelted by interrupting arrows for those 8 seconds. Compute it, it comes out to a huge amount of damage, but you have to get all your ducks in a row.

This is something of a one-trick build though, as the lower wilderness survival makes it quite difficult to do many things as a ranger, but casters do generally go up like matchsticks unless they are quick with getting rid of the fragility hex. This strategy would probably be better off being mesmer heavy rather than ranger heavy.

Something more moderate is degeneration, which is what I'm using now. I generally lead an attack run with an ethereal burden or, after a short while, energy tap. You throw on conjure phantasm and poison your enemy by using apply poison or poison arrow skills, and voila, 9 degen that should last, on the whole, at least 8 seconds without further intervention. While this is going on, you are free to help your team with other things--pindowns for fleeing targets, distracting shot for casters, for instance.

Let's do a quick skill breakdown:
poison arrow/apply poison (one or the other)
conjure
energy tap/ethereal burden

Which nets you an easy constant base 18dps on a target and leaves you with 5 skills left over for whatever. You must be careful with energy management though, as those conjures can blow through your mana, so keep this in mind when selecting your mesmer skills. Energy tap has the nice side effect of letting you know when your opponent is running out of energy (a little bit disappointing when you steal a whopping 3 energy points, but at least you know they are hurting) to better make better decisions about what to do.

Strongly Suggested:
Distracting shot
Pin down

Which still leaves you with another three. Depending on my fancy, I generally choose from:
Troll Unguent (especially if it's with a random team, but generally not when it's organized)
A defense stance
Throw dirt
Debilitating shot
Tiger's fury
Shatter hex/enchantment
Energy drain

I would list others in the domination line, but I'm pretty scarce on attr points after having a high enough wilderness survival and illusion magic to get me a decent bang for the energy buck from my conjure/poison. This is also something of a weakness, although a strong wilderness survival allows a ranger to do many things, something the fragility build compromises. Illusion I feel to be a little bit more confining.

[Deathbow Magee]

IMO, I think rangers are the worst at soloing. They're better off as a party member because they need more than just a pet to tank while they snipe.

But afterall, GW is a team weighted game so I don't think it's fair to base it on a "one on one". :/
I may be a little late....but...ROFL WTF?!...ARE YOU DUMB?! Rangers are so good at farming, all you need to do is lay down a few traps, lead the enemy to the traps and whamo! you got yourself some gold!! Anyone who thinks rangers sucks are total noobs! I have been playing this game since October 2004 (first beta testing ever, back when the game was suposed to come out in summer 2004). The ONLY two things that can beat my spike group (meanign monks and air eles) are an all mesmer team and an all ranger team. Never underestimate rangers traps and ESPECIALLY the spirits, hell with spirit of winter my friggen 100 damage + 25% amro penatration does 30 damage lol. wow...I cannot beleive the noobs on these forums...

[Deathbow Magee]

Oh yeah...and I know I could edit if i wanted too...dun forget interrupting skills from rangers, only them, mesmers, and hammer wars can really do anything to interrupt my group of spike eles, and even then the hammer wars need to build up adrenaline again, and by that time they are dead...1, 2, 3, Lightening orb (whole group does about 500-600 damage depending on how many eles I have in it).

[Hell Knight]

Kay, so I'm a newcomer, so can't really post to the last ones but I'll write my personal opinion about rangers. I started ranger a few times, but never found it exciting, but NOW!!! I made a ranger with a name: Arrow Of Melandru(R/E) and I LOVE it. Maybe not the best for soloing, but I really like it(either for soloing, either defending others' back). Most points I spent on Marksmanship(power shot, penetrating shot) next one is wilderness survivor(troll unguent, kindle arrows) then a few to beast mastery(char animal and comfort animal). I don't really need secondary class, cause ranger is fine on its own(though I spent a few points on earth magic cause of ward against melee). So equipment: I'll go on druid set because of the energy bonus(original 25, with druid:32). My bow is not a big deal(at least I saw uber brutal omgwtfbbq bows sold for 120K) but I like it(fiery composite bow of fortitude: 15-28 fire dmg +24 health) and I have a nice little cat(lvl 16). I'm lvl 17 and really love the ranger ^^

[Paine]

Welcome to Guild Wars! All rangers suck!

[Keure]

Welcome to Guild Wars! All rangers suck!

Welcome to the strategy forum, Paine. Keep your extremely biased and subjective opinion (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25882) out of these boards.

The link above also has some objective Ranger class analysis once you look past the flames, although it's tough to recommend reading it in its entirety.

(wondering why this thread keeps getting revived)

[Neo-LD]

Rangers are much easier to play in arena, where spikes, and even monks, are not required to win. Their ability to wage an attrition war is unmatched, with expertise, interupt, energy denial, fast firing speed (with tigers fury on) and respectable DoT. Good rangers are very dominant when it comes to the 4v4 arena.

In larger games, however, the presence of multiple monks can nuetralize the ranger's DoT and usually his direct damage as well. Thus he must rely on what he CAN still do effectively: interupt and remove energy. He is played similar to a mesmer: comparitively, he does certain things worse, but other things better. Observe:

Mesmers can take away more energy at once, and in different ways. They can deal significant damage to casters and prevent them from casting spells. However, most of those abilities is conditional: it must be used when they re casting, attacking, running, etc. Its easy to miss. Other mesmer abilites rely on the opponent to make a mistake. Experienced players can easily overcome those spells. I am speaking directly to backfire and Wastrels Worry etc.

Rangers have only one way to take away energy, but it is very solid: debilitating shot. It has short cooldown and small energy cost compared to mesmer spells. It cannot be countered, and does not rely on conditions. At the same time he denies energy, the ranger can deal excellent ranged damage, and interpt key spells. Rangers are also much more survivable than mesmers, and are not targeted. Its hard for a mesmer to do his job when he is being nuked by the enemy team, or if hes dead. Furthermore, rangers excellent elemental armor and damage type manipulation makes them key to the current counter to the popular air nuke build in HoH.

Think about it: it HoH, the match is a stalemate and only ends when one side's monks run out of energy. /enters the ranger.

[Zonzai]

At least one AN dev has stated that rangers are intended to be a middle-of-road character able to fill any other profession's role. Rangers don't really have a single particular role. The problem with that, and with rangers period, is really in this very design concept.

Guild Wars is a game that rewards highly specialized builds in terms of both characters and teams. People don't want to use a ranger in that way because it puts the team at a distinct disadvantage compared to a character designed to fill that particular role. And this becomes especially apparent when facing a whole group of calculated and highly specialized characters.

This leaves rangers without any real role - regardless of what the designer's intended. People just don't use rangers that way. The only role that they could feasibly fit into is that of a warrior... and well, they suck at tanking so it's still a disadvantage. They do have one elite skill that can help them fill the role of a nuker. But one skill doesn't mean a damn thing.

What really needs to happen, and what I am hoping that the expension skills will do, is give the ranger some well-defined and fitting role. I don't really care what that role is as long as they get some skills specifically designed to fill that role. This is the only way that a ranger, other than a group of full trappers, can ever hope to be needed in a pick up group.

[Eskimo Bob]

Rangers don't suck. They do have a few set roles. Traper, sniper, and disrupter. That is just starting.

[spacemonkeymafia]

this is true i have seen many a fine ranger

[Deathbow Magee]

Welcome to Guild Wars! All rangers suck!

one read my reply that i wrote before...ont he same page as this comment. Two...your either a noob who knows nothing, or just trying to piss us off. Your totally wrong, rangers are basically warriors from a distance (to a certain extent anyways), and everyone who thinks they suck is a moron who doesn't know how to play GW. Rangers can take down anyone dumb enough (and there are alot of dumb people out there) to step into their traps, and their spirits can boost them, while shutting down their opponents (esspecially earth, air, and fire eles [aslong as they do not use spirit of greater conflagration whcih boosts fire]). They jsut put down Spirit of WInter and there ya go you do half damage or less with any spell you throw at them, then they throw down some other spirits and ther ya go, they hit you for 2X the damage. Oh yeah, warriors, or anyone with melee weapons equipped, watch out for those traps they laid down before you got near them. Oh wait half your party is dead? Frozen soil...oopps you cannot ressurect anyone. Oh yeah, spell casters of any sort (mesmers, monks, eles, necros), better watch out for intterupting skills like Choking Gas, Concussion Shot, and Distracting Shot, if they hit you you won't be able to cast that spell you were in the middle of. Oh no a wolf, bear, and a lynx all attacking...who will you hit? the pets or their masters? Better choose quikely or your screwed. Choose the pet...your dead, was just a decoy. Choose the master, your dead he has troll ungent and is interrupting everythin you try to throw at him (not to mention he is getting healed and protected by the monks in his party). Oh yeah and those pesky pets are still hittin pretty hard.

I think i made my point, a well thought out ranger team can be VERY effective (problem is finding good rangers). I AM ALWAYS AVAILABLE!!! I can play monk, ranger, necro, mesmer, warrior, and ele (got the skills and items unlocked (for all of them), for monk, mesmer, warrior and necro just tell me the word and a kick ass pvp char (almost as good as a pve char [with how much i have unlocked]) will come to your aid!!

[Deathbow Magee]

Um...also..since I just read the comment by Zonzai....your wrong. Rangers have the roles (as Eskimo Bob said) of trapper, interupter, and (well i put this one in) buffer (meaning they lay down spirits to boost your group while downsizing the enemy quite a bit). Too wide spread for you? Think all the other clases have more specific functions? WRONG! Here is a list for each class of what they are most often used for:

Ele: Spiker, Nuker, Warder; (three jsut like rangers)

Mes: Interrupter, Drainer, and some damage dealing; (sorta like 2 1/2)

War: Interrupter (thats hammer), Condition dealer (sword and axe), and like 1/4 buffer (with shouts and the like); (thats only 2 1/4 but unlike the other professions the interrupter and condition dealer cannot be done at the same time)

Necro: Cursing (most people do nto like curses, but if used rite they can be quite good), Buffer (like with Blood is Power for spell casters), and Undead Raiser; (3 aswell)

Monk: Healer, Protector, and sometimes people use them for Smiting; (again, like 2 1/4)

Man I type alot...but yeah thats bassically the gist of things.

[Are Cane]

Not really, Rangers are getting better cause people are learning how to use them. My friend Elliot went GvG and the team was vs. a team of 8 rangers. 6 R/Mo and 2 other Ranger somethings and all they did was put traps, Barbed, Flame, and the Smoke one. The other team consisting of 8 Warriors died pretty fast. So rangers don't really suck :p

[Deathbow Magee]

Not really, Rangers are getting better cause people are learning how to use them. My friend Elliot went GvG and the team was vs. a team of 8 rangers. 6 R/Mo and 2 other Ranger somethings and all they did was put traps, Barbed, Flame, and the Smoke one. The other team consisting of 8 Warriors died pretty fast. So rangers don't really suck :p

I agree that rangers do not suck (as posted and explained by many cases in my three recent and long posts on this thread)...but no offense both of those teams sound pretty bad to me, no monks, no spell casters (though i have seen 6 rangers and 2 monks rip up HoH), a spike group (and most likely any balanced groups or necro groups who raise hordes...which i hate) could take out that warrior team, and any ranged (eles, necros, smiting monks...well maybe not mesmers since they ussually are specified to take out spell casters..., and even 2 monks and 6 rangers) unit could take out the ranger team (if all they used were traps and had no monks).

[ZD_kusanagi]

of course any team of just 8 monks would die. traps are meant to take down warriors, or slow them down, or basically make them run. i'm just wondering who the stupid people were who decided to make a pure warrior team.

[Are Cane]

Plus, The Ranger Barbed Trap thingy makes them Bleed and Crippled which makes them easy targets for rangers or any far ranged attacks.

Edit: Flame Trap sets the target(s) on fire I think.

Wow, imaging your burning for a few secs, crippled, bleeding, and blinded from the smoke...and constant pounding arrows from the rangers...No wonder they died so fast.

[Deathbow Magee]

Oh yeah...and just to let you all know there is no one team of anything (balanced or not) that can beat every other team set-up out there. Example 1: all mesmers and beat spell casters but are screwed against warriors or necros who raise 100's of bone minions before the gates even ope n for you to battle (i have been in both situations with an all mesmer group (besides 3 monks). Example 2: spiker groups can dominate alot of other groups but are scrwed against mesmers. Example 3: the more monks you have the longer you can hold a "king of the hill" situation, for they can just heal your hero to the max with heal area and such.

[ZD_kusanagi]

well, I've Had alot of experience with smiting groups. 4 smiting monks,(most of them secondary warrior), three healing monks, and one protection monk. It actually works VERY well. If everybody on the team knows what they are doing, you can rip an enemy team apart very fast. Since the entire team being all monks causes confusion because the enemy doesn't know who the healers are until atleast 20 seconds into the round, if you rush all the time, you have a very hih success rate. and dont say those 8 ranger teams can take down any smiting groups. its called 2 of the monks carrying "shields up".
and of course smiting auras etc, can take down any sprit just as fast as the rangers can throw them out.
So technically, while any one team set up doesn't and can't automatically win any scenario, if you set it up the right way, an odd ball team like all rangers, or all monks, or all mesmers can hold the hoh for many rounds.
on a side note, with this all monk team, i've gone to taking down the standing team holding the Hoh multiple times. So technically, if a ranger team is outfitted right, and since they are technically th jack of all trades, they can take the role of any class, i can really see ranger teams holding the hoh alot. its just that when most people think of range group, they think spam spirits. and i'm not sure if that is really the winning way to go.

[David Lionmaster]

what? rangers are awesome, im a R/E and i can take out any spellcaster one on one. i do have trouble fighting against warriors and other rangers one on one cause i focus on doing as much elemental damage and health degeneration as possible. i only use 2 ele spells, and they are used to make my bow stronger. rangers are really good if u have a specific strategy and dont try to do everyting.

[Ristaron]

Two examples of rangers owning:

Ranger/Warrior 20
Greater Conflagration
Drakescale armour
Bigass sword
One of the best tanks in the game

Ranger/Elementalist 20
Conjure Flame
Fiery weapon
Barrage
A bit of altitude
Hit 6 people for +25 (or more) damage each; take down the front line warriors before they get close (with some help form mesmers of course: conjure phantasm + epidemic... or even have the rangers go apply poison for a volley before doing barrage, mesmers can epidemic the poison).

Until you get later into the game, Rangers are not soloing/tanking material. It's only when they get armour +100 vs elemental (and even more vs. fire) that you can bring in some excellent combos.
And even in the competition arenas, any warrior that gets near me (or the healer I'm defending) has to run through at least two traps and several volleys of barrage before he winds up with dirt thrown in his eyes before he manages to land a hit. By then he's half health and turning to run away.

[Mister Pie]

I used to think that all Rangers sucked but more recently I seem to be noticing an influx of better players. It's gotten to the point that I find them more annoying than necromancers. In the hands of a good player, rangers rock!

[Neo-LD]

conjure phantasm + epidemic.

I must say, that is a high-quality combo, right there.

[Deathbow Magee]

well, I've Had alot of experience with smiting groups. 4 smiting monks,(most of them secondary warrior), three healing monks, and one protection monk. It actually works VERY well. If everybody on the team knows what they are doing, you can rip an enemy team apart very fast. Since the entire team being all monks causes confusion because the enemy doesn't know who the healers are until atleast 20 seconds into the round, if you rush all the time, you have a very hih success rate. and dont say those 8 ranger teams can take down any smiting groups. its called 2 of the monks carrying "shields up".
and of course smiting auras etc, can take down any sprit just as fast as the rangers can throw them out.
So technically, while any one team set up doesn't and can't automatically win any scenario, if you set it up the right way, an odd ball team like all rangers, or all monks, or all mesmers can hold the hoh for many rounds.
on a side note, with this all monk team, i've gone to taking down the standing team holding the Hoh multiple times. So technically, if a ranger team is outfitted right, and since they are technically th jack of all trades, they can take the role of any class, i can really see ranger teams holding the hoh alot. its just that when most people think of range group, they think spam spirits. and i'm not sure if that is really the winning way to go.

Accually spamming spirits is a great way to go, I never said all monk group would die against rangers, and rangers are nto the jack of all trades (thogh tthey are not bad either) because they have so many things to max out (or just get really high) to be very good (like marksmanship, expertise, and wilderness survivial) they cannot really be a very good secondary class w/o sacraficing spirits, or attack power, or traps.

[Xellosik]

For me Rangers sux but i don't mean "sux" = can't win i mean it's annoying and overpowered...spirit spamming. Today really something happened that make me mad. On relic map they spamed our relic runner with spirits, so he cannot run. u cannot do nothig when 6 enemy players spam spirits, and I mean all possible spirits in game. U can fight very long and even win in other map no time limited and get bored. But on relic run...no it go to far for me. First time I said GW sux when i saw it. Interupting so many spirit carriers is impossible. U will go out of mana and all your players should be what ? Interuptors ? And if next time u meet other build it's useless. Besides they don't play to kill you. They play to make u mad and make u leave game. And before u can interupt anything there is more than 10 spirits already. But even in deatchmach it's ok maybye u can do something...in relic map it's like they place spirit then they run relic. So u have same chance to do same ? No...cause they spam spirits on your way so u can't move even. So if all your players will go to help you and interupt enemy who place spirits and blocking u...same time their carrier is running relic. Bah :( This game loosing too much cause these spirits.

[Deathbow Magee]

Also, in response to Ristaron, um greater conflagaration wouldn't do much for the Ranger/Warrior (especially if he is using a sword), and also i know a better tank then ranger/war...a WAR/MONK!!!
And in response to Xellosik: Thats exactly why spamming spirits can be a great way to win! :D

[PippinTook]

Also, in response to Ristaron, um greater conflagaration wouldn't do much for the Ranger/Warrior (especially if he is using a sword), and also i know a better tank then ranger/war...a WAR/MONK!!!

If greater confalgaration were cast. The Ranger could be wearing drakescale, giving him 115 against fir dmg and 100 against elemental. And since there is no physical dmg. Thats alot of armor. rangers also have troll ungent, and whirling defense, when used together it works very well b/c you have blocking and healing going on.

[Deathbow Magee]

If greater confalgaration were cast. The Ranger could be wearing drakescale, giving him 115 against fir dmg and 100 against elemental. And since there is no physical dmg. Thats alot of armor. rangers also have troll ungent, and whirling defense, when used together it works very well b/c you have blocking and healing going on.

Thats assuming your fighting a group heavy on elementalists and not wars, other rangers, mesmers (which would be pretty easy to beat for a ranger team accually), smiting monks, necros, or just a balanced group.

[drowningfish999]

Thats assuming your fighting a group heavy on elementalists and not wars, other rangers, mesmers (which would be pretty easy to beat for a ranger team accually), smiting monks, necros, or just a balanced group.

Actually with Greater Conflagration, it would be the opposite, fighting a group heavy on warriors. Greater Conflagration changes all PHYSICAL damage to fire damage. The other ritual, Winter, changes all ELEMENTAL damage to cold.

[the_me]

I got a R/Mo, and I do fairly well with it. I tend to switch between pullin, damage output, and healing, depending on what is happening. Of cource, whe I get the chance I like to use my favorite skill combo (start with ignite arrow, then hit power shot, then bane signet followed with hunter shor or determined shot which can put down some fairly decent damage :) ) or again with the monk skillstry and give the poor healer some support. Then pet can be a mixed blessing: I've had times where it does some awesome tanking for me or times like when I was doin the ascention test where your group fights three phases of groups, each with more groups then the last, where I ended up getting "stuck" on it and was no longer any help to my group :/ but the ranger class can be real great if used properly.Why, the only times I ever really have any trouble with it is when I am laggin very poorly (I hate my wireless network with a passion :( ) but otherwise it works out fairly well for me.

[Sereng Amaranth]

Plus, The Ranger Barbed Trap thingy makes them Bleed and Crippled which makes them easy targets for rangers or any far ranged attacks.

Edit: Flame Trap sets the target(s) on fire I think.

Wow, imaging your burning for a few secs, crippled, bleeding, and blinded from the smoke...and constant pounding arrows from the rangers...No wonder they died so fast.I sometimes bring this build....set flame trap, set barbed trap, kindle arrows, wait for leading warrior to step into range, poison arrow, throw dirt....now he's poisoned, blind, crippled, bleeding and on fire...try to heal? disrupt...a sprinkling of penetrating shot and dual shot and its a bad day to be a rusher