Rangers.. Kind of depressing.

[Erod]

I understand that in this game, rangers aren't for damage dealing, and it's kind of a bummer. I've always played an archer, and shooting things for 13-30 dmg with a rare xx-27 rare bow is a bummer. I've always known archers be about equivelant to mages, but physical damage (in a sense) slow attacking speed, but high damage.. and they tend to be... like a physical mesmer in this game..

I'm wondering if im missing somthing.. I have 12 in marksman ship and I still hit like a little girl. Im making a provolone (Warrior/Monk) provolone.. as in cheese.. because warrior monks are cheesy.. but I want to do damage.. and I dont like mages.. so warrior seems to be my only choice

I hate the idea of traps.. or pets that's not me. Any tips to enhance my damage with a bow? Before I spend time leveling another character to 20?

[Jackell]

Depends. What's your secondary?

[Miral]

skills. favorable winds + any of your preparations = ownage. my current char is a ranger/monk. I personally like to use exploding arrows or poisoned arrows, along with the monk spell that heals you whenever you attack, and then use the dual shot attack whenever its available. each hit in dual shot procs a heal, plus if im using exploding arrows it creates two explosions! another good one is poisoned arrow + hunter's shot on a moving enemy. bleeding + poison = fast health drain. combine that with conjure phantasm from a mesmer or the life drain of a necro and... wow...
as a side note, try using a bow that requires marksmanship a couple levels below yours. I have 10 marksmanship and use a bow that I believe requires 8... on certain mobs a few levels lower than me, I can easily hit for 70ish with an unmodified shot.

[Jackell]

I'm a R/E, and I love the Gale/Hunters shot combo. Best part is, if you hit them with Pin down too, you can just keep doing it over and over, and it's hard for them to get away. So funny to see how irritated a W/Mo gets over that.

[dbodenheim]

Here is my ranger/monk build. Granted Im only level 15 and have only played 4 on 4 pickup rounds. Anyhow we won 11 times in a row today Im pretty sure I contributed.

1.Hunters Shot--great early on when everyone is moving for the bleed effect.

2.Duel Shot-- works in combination with.....

3.Apply Poisen--the real heart of he build. Arrow poisen stacks with arrow poisen and keeps on the damage over time.

4.Favorable Winds-- good range. Long lasting.

5.Troll Ungeant-- when your in trouble and are tearing ass away.

6.Whirling Defense-- when you have to get out of a bad situation. See # 5.

7.Healing Spring--a little touch of healing that lasts 10 seconds. may give the team the extra boost during those 90 second rounds.

8.Restore Life--ressurection of course.

So this build basically is for team support. You have the Poisen damage to rip through casters or help your tank take down there tank. You also have the abilty to do a little support healing and sneak in the ressurects. I only have like 55 skills total right now to work with and I think this one is the best.

[Gh0sT]

I dont know what u are doing wrong... but with my bow (13-25 + 20% from costomisation) i can do well over 100 damage per shot... (if i use a attack skill that is), without attack skill is still do 60+ damage...

Are you posistioning urself right ?... always have ur target below you so stand on a hill or something...

NOTE: Im level 14 with marksman at 10 ... i was kind of talking about PvE... but in PvP i still do around 60 damage (40 without attackskill)...

Most imporatant factors are targets armor and ur position... the higher you are ... the more damage you do (more headshots etc)...

[Akshara]

Any tips to enhance my damage with a bow?
Try a Monk secondary class with a high Smiting Prayers attribute. Holy damage ignores armor, and can be used to buff the natural damage of your bow. If a prayer adds +40 holy damage, that's +40 guaranteed damage on top of your normal bow damage, regardless of what armor they're wearing. It's also extremely helpful against the undead in PvE.

Check out the Skills Listing (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill.php) and run a search for Ranger/Monk organized by Class>Attribute>Skill Type, and check out the Smiting Prayers line. Especially the enchantments that say "target ally" in them, as they can be cast on yourself ("target other" cannot be).

One doesn't need a high skill pool to take advantage of prayers, because with a Ranger a high Expertise level reduces the costs of all Attack Skills, Preparations, Traps, Stances, Rituals, Glyphs, and Shouts by 4% per attribute level. This basically makes all Rangers skills cost less to use over time, and allows some room for extra enchantments and spells that other classes don't necessarily have.

If you want serious bow damage, try a three attribute setup like this:

Marksmanship 11
Expertise 10
Smiting Prayers 10

Or go for a four attribute setup, adding Wilderness Survival for some defense:

Marksmanship 10
Expertise 10
Smiting Prayers 8
Wilderness Survival 8

... or something like that.

[VividDream]

R/Me Fragility combo rocks, Apply poison, Hunter's shot, stop attacking and count to 1, Pin down. 200 dmg that ignores armor from fragility alone.

[VividDream]

Btw, it all depends on the armor lvl of your opponents. Don't feel depressed that some people are saying they do 60 dmg PvE. Last time I went back with my lvl 20 to ascalon, I did ~70 dmg per shot but I only do ~15-20 to mursaat. You just need to find a creative way to dish out your dmg.

[DraieGardo]

im set up as R/Mo15, my set up

*Kindle Arrows
*Power Shot
*Duel Shot
*Hunters Shot
*Pin Down
*Lightining Reflex
*Res Signit
*Troll Unguent

With this set up you'll take half the hp off a warrior before he even reaches you, as soon as he does use lighting reflex and Troll Urgent and he wont be able to hit you much and the troll urget will easily replenish your hp before he/she can cause any serios damage. Before you know it they are dead at your feet :) all be it, they tend to run off when ya whacked em with hunter shot and powershot but thats where pin down comes in :).

I use no monk abilities as all my attribute goin to Marksmen, Expertise and Wilderness survival, perhaps more of a solo set up but it goes well with teams aswell

[Devil's Dictionary]

Don't forget that rangers get augmented damage when shooting down. Try to get to the highest point of the battlefield before using a few preps.

The only problem with the ranger is that Marksmanship and Expertize is a must whereas Beastmastery is completely useless. If you use up all your points on Marksmanship and Expertize, you simply couldn't invest in Wilderness Survival without putting yourself at a disadvantage regarding your secondary profession.

[dbodenheim]

I wouldnt say Beast mAstery iss completly useless. My friend maxed out Beast Mastery and put all kinds of beastie skills on his bar. In PvP he then proceeded to rip, terrorize, and bleed out every oppenent. His pet went UNMOLESTED because he was a stupid looking moa ( how can that goofy bird hurt me?)

Pets are way ignored in player vs player and it is death by "goofy cartoon looking thing" for many unsuspecting players.

[Pevil Lihatuh]

ignite arrows + favourable winds + dual shot = serious pain! It doesn't look like much when +16 goes up... but then when you consider that in a tight group using double shot you can get about 8 or 10 numbers going up... up to 160 damage with one shot!

btw im gonna try the beast mastery route when i reach level 20 (at level 17 right now) so should be able to give some info on it soon i hope

[Erod]

I really don't want to offend anyone, but I am level 20(5), I understand the hieght effecting arrows thing.. I do understand that If I wan't to boost my ego I can go to old ascalon and hit mobs for 150 dmg if I want, but that's not the case. I want to be able to contribute to groups, I feel useless. When I'm standing behind everyone shooting my arrows for 13-39 dmg I feel like I shouldn't even be there. In PvE, wether you like it or not Pin Down doesnt help anyone.. because you have warriors tanking.. Hunters Shot doesn't do anything, because warriors are tanking..

So in PvP.. I use a completely differant set up, Warriors charge me first, because I'm the ranger, and I die, after Hitting them with

-Pin Down
-Hunters Shot
-Feintheartedness
-Dual shot
-Dodge- get more room between us
-Turn around to pin down again, and it's either, I die time, or I run time..

[Dreamsmith]

Holy damage ignores armor
Actually, no, it doesn't. However, direct damage smiting prayers do.

...after Hitting them with -Pin Down -Hunters Shot -Feintheartedness -Dual shot -Dodge- get more room between us -Turn around to pin down again, and it's either, I die time, or I run time..
What damage buffs are you using? Favorable Winds? Kindle Arrows? Apply Poison? Something else?

(If you aren't using any, you aren't using a build designed to deal damage. It would then be unsurprising that it doesn't deal much damage.)

[Witchfinder General]

Actually, no, it doesn't. However, direct damage smiting prayers do.
What damage buffs are you using?


Judge's Insight
For 8-18 seconds, target ally's attacks deal Holy damage and have +20% armor penetration.

I agree it does not sound like he is using any decent damage buffs, or damage type modifiers.


there is poison arrow
there is the 10secs of addit poison damage
ran ele can conjure element

[decog]

I am starting my second ranger (and my second char total) cause my first attempt at the game was a Ra/Mo and he is only level 10 now, but he's feeling pretty useless. Plus I havn't really gotten a whole lot of great skills. Well I started a new Ranger build to try and really investigate this Ranger=useless theory. I'm going to have to disagree. I've gota Ranger/Warrior combo and he's only level 6, already dealing some impressive blows. The major benefit from Ranger Warrior so far is that i'm no longer dependent on energy. I use up my energy with a powerful shot, then a point blank shot, a troll ungent and a healing signet (if needed) then i run in close (which isn't too close seeing as how my point blank shot has already closed the distance, if the enemy has not). So in close i can sever artery and deepen gash (I think that's the name) and there isn't much that can keep up with me. I've got him equipped with a 7-10 damage longsword (looks wicked) and a 7-10 Damage ascalon bow, and I'm just wrecking anything I come up against. Early in PvE it's easy to fall prey to any group of enemies over two, but I've taken on multiple Grawls/shamans and not had too many issues.

I think the ranger can really be a versatile build.

.d

[Desferous]

Ranger is an odd class. It really doesn't need a secondary it seems. I have a ranger monk and at times I think "ah this is great" and at others I think "hmmm." The variables of the game seem to give all classes some ups and downs.

Maybe the ranger isn't the class for you the way it is built in this game? Try an elementalist/ranger or a warrior/ranger instead?

Don't feel bad about doing the warrior/monk. It is a viable option, and for its power? It seems that it is a great build, but people are starting to figure out how to deal with that combo in pvp.

[Pevil Lihatuh]

meh well i like my level 17 ranger and i sure dont feel like she's useless in parties when i see that health bar drop! but if its not for you then i don't blame you; i personally tend not to like warriors simply because in most games they are the 'easy' option... get boring very fast.

[Gh0sT]

I really don't want to offend anyone, but I am level 20(5), I understand the hieght effecting arrows thing.. I do understand that If I wan't to boost my ego I can go to old ascalon and hit mobs for 150 dmg if I want, but that's not the case. I want to be able to contribute to groups, I feel useless. When I'm standing behind everyone shooting my arrows for 13-39 dmg I feel like I shouldn't even be there. In PvE, wether you like it or not Pin Down doesnt help anyone.. because you have warriors tanking.. Hunters Shot doesn't do anything, because warriors are tanking..

So in PvP.. I use a completely differant set up, Warriors charge me first, because I'm the ranger, and I die, after Hitting them with

-Pin Down
-Hunters Shot
-Feintheartedness
-Dual shot
-Dodge- get more room between us
-Turn around to pin down again, and it's either, I die time, or I run time..

MMM yea warriors are a bit of trouble, but warriors shouldnt be ur targets in the first place... i usually pick on the softer targets and (if ur team is good) concentrate fire on the warriors...
And if the warrior picks you out, well then it depends on the team... either someone has to help you by beating up the guy, or by healing you, because warriors are probably nemesis nr.1 for a ranger.
Im currently level 14, so i bet there is a world of difference between you and me... but when i play in the arena, i usually first find myself a higher position, the best would be as high as possible, but i dont want to stray from my team. Then i just wait till eventually some warrior is stupid enough to come to us, and i start with hunters shot (havent got pin down), to get in some DoT from bleeding (DoT is always welcome :D ), then if he's still comming, i use penetrating attack (which is imo the best strong attack vs warriors, because not only like 15 extra damage but also it has 25% armor penetration... and vs a warrior that is like 10 to 15 extra damage :eek:

So you might wanna consider that skill to try out... other then that i cant really help you :( ... I ususally am just the extra damage dealer eats chunks off and stops fleeing persons...

[Typhoon]

Throw Dirt + Dust Trap + Oath Shot = Rinse and Repeat.

You also can get Whirling Defense, which can give you 75% block for up to 17 seconds. It's kind of like an immunity shield, and most of the time you can cast this stance and then cast a trap while a warrior is trying to hit you. :-)

Don't forget about distracting shot, a very good interrupt. Troll Inguent is cheap to cast and gives a nice +8 health regeneration with enough points.

[Akshara]

Actually, no, it doesn't. However, direct damage smiting prayers do.
Hmm, intriguing. I was under the impression it did. Not wanting to dispute, just get my facts straight as I'm sill learning as well.

The monk profession guide on the site here says the following...

Most Smiting skills deal holy damage, which is unaffected by armor class, and deals double damage to undead enemies. Even if your target is a warrior with an extremely high armor level, Smiting skills will still deal full damage to them.
This suggests to me that holy damage does ignore armor... unless I'm misunderstanding what armor class is referring to.

[Macel]

Dunno what you're on about, my 15 ranger can take pretty much anyone on one on one.

Saying "I only do xx dmg" or "I can do xx dmg" doesnt mean much - it varies widely on who you're attacking. Warriors will naturally shrug off melee damage very well. Maybe you should consider saving warriors for last in PVP battle and shooting enemy casters first, you'll like your damage much more against them.

I think if you play other damage dealing classes you'll see bigger numbers but slower cast times and larger mana drainage... Not to mention you'll have even less tankeability than you do with a ranger.

My PVP setup as a 15 ranger/elementalist goes like this: distracting shot, which interrupts spells/abilities and shoots instantly, hunter's shot which bleeds if target is moving (and players move around a lot), the fire damage arrows (the DD one, not AOE DD), earth armor which slows me down a lot but boosts my armor enough to tank melee very well.. That helps against my primary weakness which is warriors, The 10 second 75% evade ability, for additional tankage, troll unguent (of course), charm pet to bring my pet along and res signet.

My team of four won 18 games last night, and I definitely helped make that possible

[Striker Shardale]

I would recommend Ranger/Monk as well, I am lvl 18 and this guy is a freaking beast. With a Ranger/Monk you can make him/her capable of doing high dmge, high defense, or even being a decent healer. They are very helpful in those spots where you have to run long distances and do not want to die.

[Falconer]

The problem I think is that the ranger is an 'advanced' class after all the changes it's gone through the past few months. I would NOT recommend a ranger to a new player until they learn the ins and outs of fighting against them. Like someone else said, they're a physical mesmer.

If you're a ranger primary... you really have no choice... expertise + marksmanship all the way. After that you need survival to do exactly that augment your survivability. Yeah you can do healing prayers in it's place... but prepare for energy management problems if you do so. You are an archer, consign yourself to that fact early and you'll save yourself much grief. Expect to spend half to all your points on marks & expertise right now. At low levels use wilderness survival with barely enough marks to use your bow, if you need to use marksmanship skills... stick with hunters shot (your only real 5 energy bow attack spammable pick), and penetrating shot (sparingly... it'll eat up your energy in a hurry). But primarily rely on your survival preps for damage & self-healing at low levels.

As a ranger you really don't have any nuke skills whatsoever. You have a lot of spam damage types. That's right ZERO nukes... they used to have 15 energy power shots with +34 damage which was the closest thing they had... now power shot is one of a bunch of clones stuck at 10 energy and +20 damage.

However, that sad. As it currently stands the ranger is very largely self-contained. Moreso than any other class. It's very hard to keep any class 'pure' and keep it powerfull. And expertise is a large portion of the reason for this... look at your entire skill list.. expertise will reduce the cost of all of it by 50% round up at lvl 12.

A good way to view the ranger in game is that it's largely similar to the Red Mage's in the final fantasy series. A lot of self-buffs and utility. However, not steller in the damage or healing categories.

FYI: I was regularly soloing lvl 24 critters at level 13 with my Ra/Mo.. so it's not a matter of it can't be done. It's just it takes a LOT of work. And you really can't be all you can be until you are level 20. Moreso than any other class... ranger is closest thing in game to the D&D mages... not a lot of power at low levels... but at high levels they start to get scary.

[Mouser]

Falconer,

It sounds like you're using a "pure ranger" build, with little or no skills and attributes invested in Monk. Am I right in that assumption? (I only ask, because that's the direction I've been taking, and haven't had any regrets so far. However, I just went into the Academy today, so I haven't really seen any of the real content. Having said that though, I'm impressed with what a Ranger-only can do.)

-M

[kelith]

The monk profession guide on the site here says the following...
<snip>

This suggests to me that holy damage does ignore armor... unless I'm misunderstanding what armor class is referring to.

Your not misunderstanding what armor class is, just the info you are qouting.

Holy damage from skills ignores armor.
Holy damage dealt by weapons does not.

[Akshara]

Holy damage from skills ignores armor.
Holy damage dealt by weapons does not.
I appreciate your helping to clear this up, and I don't want to derail this topic, but I'm a little confused by what you're saying.

All of the Smiting Prayers that deal holy damage - except for two - are cast as either a spell, skill, hex, enchantment or signet directly on the foe(s) without a weapon required. The enchantment Judge's Insight and the attack skill Smite are the only ones that add holy damage to a weapon attack.

In the case of Judge's Insight, this adds holy damage on top of the base weapon attack, which itself gets a +20% armor penetration.

Smite adds anywhere from 10 to 68 holy damage to an attack, regardless of what weapon one is carrying.

In both cases, the holy damage itself should still ignore armor class. What I'm hearing you guys say is that in the case of these two spells, the holy damage dealt does not ignore armor class. It just doesn't make any sense. Where are you getting this information?

Hmm... I just re-read my post, and recognized that I didn't explain it very clearly to begin with, which may be part of the confusion.

When I said, "can be used to buff the natural damage of your bow," I wasn't being clear enough. What I was trying to say was that holy damage added on top of a ranger's normal bow attacks can increase the total damage dealt significantly, since holy damage ignores armor class. I didn't mean to imply that the bow's base attack damage itself ignored armor as well.

Is that what you thought I was saying? Or are there bows out there with holy damage as an attribute like some wands and staves have? Because I'm totally confused as to what "holy damage dealt by weapons does not" is referring to in this context. In the case of a Ranger, what holy damage does not come from a skill?

[kelith]

Since smite is a skill that is doing the damage it will ignore armor. Smite also doesn't add damage to your regular attack, it does it's damage as if it were an attack.
In the case of Judge's Insight, this adds holy damage on top of the base weapon attack, which itself gets a +20% armor penetration.
Judge's Insight doesn't add holy damage to the weapon attack, it converts the physical damage to holy damage. This is the reason for the holy damage dealt by weapons don't bypass armor statement and is also why the skill gives 20% armor penetration. The armor penetration would be pointless if the damage itself ignored the armor calculations.

Perhaps the post by Nash in this thread can be of some use.
http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14327

I've got to run to work, but i'll check back later.

[Akshara]

Thank you, Kelith. That does clear things up quite a bit. I was completely misunderstanding this, as is evidenced by my previous posts.

There's so many little details to learn, I always appreciate it when someone with more experience takes the time to share what they know.

:)

[adugabutt]

i understand what you're going through. Rangers have been nerfed because they made elementalists stupid. Now, however, they're useful in that they can do a variety of different things.

You'll never be able to out do pure physical damage of other weapons with a bow, but you can put conditions on them. I understand that that's not what you want, and people have gave suggestions improving damage. The bottom line is, it wont be enough. Even if you do 60 damage to other players with skill shots, the rate at which bows fire is atrocious.

But if you're looking to kill tanks, such as warrior monks, physical attacks won't do much good anyway. With the armor they have and the different skills (stance, that one monk skill that gives you health every time you get hit, etc) they are pretty much immune to physical dmg anyway if they know what they're doing. But a mesmer or necro putting degens on them will kill them fast.

A ranger can do that as well. Bleeding, poison, crippling, in addition to whatever degens your second class can give you, will drain those warriors like a leaky faucet.

Btw, I'm sure you already know this, but poison does not "stack" contrary to the previous post somewhere mentioning this.

[Spura]

I understand that in this game, rangers aren't for damage dealing, and it's kind of a bummer. I've always played an archer, and shooting things for 13-30 dmg with a rare xx-27 rare bow is a bummer. I've always known archers be about equivelant to mages, but physical damage (in a sense) slow attacking speed, but high damage.. and they tend to be... like a physical mesmer in this game..

I'm wondering if im missing somthing.. I have 12 in marksman ship and I still hit like a little girl. Im making a provolone (Warrior/Monk) provolone.. as in cheese.. because warrior monks are cheesy.. but I want to do damage.. and I dont like mages.. so warrior seems to be my only choice

I hate the idea of traps.. or pets that's not me. Any tips to enhance my damage with a bow? Before I spend time leveling another character to 20?
I hate legolas and I hate archers in all rpgs I have played. Go figure why.

[uigrad]

I've enjoyed my lv 9 Mo/R so far. Of course, I have a long ways to go.

I've been playing (PvE) with some friends that are a few levels ahead of me. I can stand back, and let them tank and deal damage, while I heal, and lob in arrows, powered by favorable winds. I suppose my combination is perfect if you are with higher level friends, but may not be as useful once I pass them (should happen tonight or tomorrow :)

I'm really looking forward to exploding arrows or poison.