Closing Threads

[Lansing Kai Don]

I realize that part of the responsibility of the moderator/admin is to realize when a thread is finished and close it. But lately it seems every other new thread I go to is closed with some generic answer from a moderator/admin. Perhaps the question is generic in itself, but then the new user (the ones we're trying to attract) has no ability to ask further questions if it didn't answer his... sure then he has the ability to post a new thread that is more specific. This then leads to clutter, and probably upsets the new user (it would me). I was thinking if you're going to close a thread on some generic answer/question... then perhaps delete it too (remove the clutter if it truly is that generic and simple). It also occurred to me, why do you need us other Guild Wars fans if most of the answers are going to be replied with some copied and pasted answer and then closed. I've gotten two people to message me for a more specific answer. This is why I'm worried. While I don't mind doing it, it doesn't help any of the other users who may have similar problems/questions.

Lansing Kai Don

[Enix]

The point is not to have 8000 threads asking "is my computer fast enough to run GW" or "what do I get for my preorder item" and so on. Being a former forum moderator, it is generally a pain in the butt when people dont read before asking questions. If it was already asked/answered, there is no need for a new thread. :rolleyes:

[Manderlock]

The point is not to have 8000 threads asking "is my computer fast enough to run GW" or "what do I get for my preorder item" and so on. Being a former forum moderator, it is generally a pain in the butt when people dont read before asking questions. If it was already asked/answered, there is no need for a new thread. :rolleyes:


You talk about having 8000 threads, they dont delet them they just close them. That means your argument has no merit.

Most members (such as myself) have no prob awnsering these types of qs. Just let us awnser the question befor you close it. Then you still get to close the thread, but the poster now has his question awnsered.

[Lansing Kai Don]

The point is not to have 8000 threads asking "is my computer fast enough to run GW" or "what do I get for my preorder item" and so on. Being a former forum moderator, it is generally a pain in the butt when people dont read before asking questions. If it was already asked/answered, there is no need for a new thread. :rolleyes:

Yes I mentioned deleting the threads if they are truly that generic of an answer. But what if the person asked if his computer is fast enough to run GW... "read the system requirements" thread closed. Before you know it I get a message... ok, I installed the client and it seems to be choppy and I was wondering if my computer may be the problem. Then doing it via MSN messenger while helpful to the user is not helpful to others with similar problems. And delete the threads if you're just going to close them on some generic answer there is no point in letting them stay, unless you like everyone to see what you typed.

As a forum admin,... and having offers to two other Guild Wars sites to be a moderator (turned down one, don't have the time). I understand the responsibilities. But "you" took them on (as I mentioned in another post), if you're not able to handle it or don't have enough time. Then do the honorable thing and resign from your post or have others pick up your slack (if it is for a brief period).

Lansing Kai Don

[Loviatar]

i note that threads are being closed by many different mod/admin so it doesnt appear that the issue is a particular mod/admin slacking off and taking the easy way out.

[Nascent]

Normally I'm not one to add to threads such as this, but it's something I've noticed lately too. I'm not saying its unmerited, since the nice Guru folks are providing us with a community...but it just seems like things are getting kind of out of hand lately.

I've noticed some moderators perhaps being more crass with members than they should be given their position in the community, and its hard to voice complaints about this since favouritism will always take place.

Threads being closed as soon as they're opened...I don't mind this, except for when we hear something like "this has already been covered here (link) " and then the place we're being sent to is only vaguely related to the previous topic.

Maybe everyone’s just getting antsy since the games right around the corner, but I know at least a few people have mentioned some growing disdain for the way things are evolving around here. I'm not pointing fingers, or mentioning names, but you'd have to be blind to not notice it.

[Lansing Kai Don]

i note that threads are being closed by many different mod/admin so it doesnt appear that the issue is a particular mod/admin slacking off and taking the easy way out.

*sigh* I agree Loviatar, I was speaking generally in my first post. In the second I was addressing Enix remark not the question as a whole. And in the last paragraph that was to any moderator/admin, I wasn't referencing just one. I do not want to go that route by the way, I'm not hear to criticize one admin/moderator just the site as a whole. I have no right to make it personal in any way.. especially since it doesn't anger me. Just wanting to let the site know a possible deprivation of information that may be needed.

Lansing Kai Don

[Loviatar]

:) has anybody been tracking number of posts per day and the updates to the guides and other information not to mention a lot of new faces in the mod catagory?

they are busy and i have found new mods will have a tendency to be a little more strict at first as they dont want to appear to be sluffing off on the job.

lets let things settle out before passing a hint of judgement as it will only get worse after the game is released and the tide of questions begins. :)

[Lansing Kai Don]

:) has anybody been tracking number of posts per day and the updates to the guides and other information not to mention a lot of new faces in the mod catagory?

they are busy and i have found new mods will have a tendency to be a little more strict at first as they dont want to appear to be sluffing off on the job.

lets let things settle out before passing a hint of judgement as it will only get worse after the game is released and the tide of questions begins. :)

Once again Loviatar, I'm not passing judgement. Just trying to be informative.. I don't want this to become an argument or trying ot make the moderators/admins defend themselves. I agree with you, just letting them know the overall experience that users are getting. And how some members of the community feel. *sigh* Sometimes I wish I don't speak up, but I feel the need if I think there is major room for improvement. I realize it's going to get busy, that's why I chose this time to voice myself. Better before than after.

Lansing Kai Don

[Bgnome]

i assume you guys are talking about me. :D

anyhow, i have been newly appointed as the moderator of the Q&A and Tech forums and have been fairly busy the past couple of days in anticipation of release. i understand that yall are concerned by my actions, specifically closing practically every thread opened in my sections.

i had already ade a note to the other admins of my intentions and so far, have not seen any indication that i am going about this the wrong way. it has been brought up several times that bothe of those sections have been viewed as a "mess" and drastic action needs to be taken.

as such, i have been in the habit of closing threads that ask questions that have asked several times before, questions that are answered simply through the use of the search button, quoting official faqs/interviews, and questions that have simply been answered.

i close these threads as they no longer require additional posts. if i was to delete them, the original poster would not be able to read the answer. hopefully, closing them will allow them to fall to the wayside and keep the useful topics either on top or stickied.

if you have suggestions on how to approach this better, i am open to them. i hope to promote useful threads and eventually have the answers easier to find. i have read many complaints regarding that and often see people begin the post by mentioning failed search attempts. if you feel that generic answers, ie linking system requirements, is not the answer, what do you propose?

[Zai]

I agree with the OP. I'm one of those new members, the actions of certain mods are making me feel as if this is not a friendly community, if it continues I may move on to another forum.

i close these threads as they no longer require additional posts.

They may not "require" additional posts, but the topic starter may want to thank those that gave them the answer or possibly ask for clarification about that answer. Other users may want to add-on to the answer to be more helpful, etc.

Locking a thread is a last resort to stop an inappropriate thread from continuing, it is a disciplinary action.

[Bgnome]

i have already received a PM from a new member that i believe i may have scared off. now, as i am a new moderator, i am not offended by your critique of my actions.
of course, Q&A is not representative of the community as a whole. my original impression was that GWG was to be a place where players could get more detailed information about the inner workings of the game. i appreciate that Q&A has devolved from that somewhat as the noob stomping grounds. i do not wish to turn the image of this site into an unwelcome place for neophytes, but the more the same questions are asked, the more it dilutes the actually useful information contained in those forums.

i apologize if yall believe that i have been slack at this new job. i have been juggling many things at the moment and wish to be able to devote more time and effort, although that does not excuse any lack of quality on my part.

[Lansing Kai Don]

I agree with the OP. I'm one of those new members, the actions of certain mods are making me feel as if this is not a friendly community, if it continues I may move on to another forum.

Yes, you are new. But perhaps instead of quitting on this one, let's work with them to find a better solution than closing threads right after they're posted. Bgnome I wasn't specifically speaking of you, as people have mentioned, it's more than one (it perhaps is evena mentality). Tell me if I'm completely off base on some of these or help them by adding suggestions to improve them...

Instead of 30 stickies at the top of the forums (which some are approaching 15 and therefore a FULL page for the people who set 20 posts per page).. make one sticky with a link to a FAQ. Yes I know, but build up your FAQ with the items already stickied.

Give the user a time limit to respond, say it nicely like. In your forums case, here are the system requirements.. if you have any further questions please ask them in the next 2-3 hours (or even 24 but that'd be hard to track) as we will be deleting this thread shortly. This will only work for the truly generic questions as you stated. And if you could have someone set up a script time to automatically delete the message after a time span that could make it super easy... or just a reminder system.

I notice some threads have been merged (you do have this here right?)... maybe use this more frequently on generic answers since you just plan on closing the threads anyways. Then you could delete the thread and the user will have a place to respond.

Lansing Kai Don

P.S. Like I said, these are suggestions. I'll try to think of some more but I'm really busy at the moment with work and school. Bgnome thanks for taking a constructive path defending yourself... it's always good to see like-minded individuals open to suggestions. And perhaps none of these are implementable, if not maybe some other community members (especially forum goers) will be able to help.

[Manderlock]

i have already received a PM from a new member that i believe i may have scared off. now, as i am a new moderator, i am not offended by your critique of my actions.
of course, Q&A is not representative of the community as a whole. my original impression was that GWG was to be a place where players could get more detailed information about the inner workings of the game. i appreciate that Q&A has devolved from that somewhat as the noob stomping grounds. i do not wish to turn the image of this site into an unwelcome place for neophytes, but the more the same questions are asked, the more it dilutes the actually useful information contained in those forums.

i apologize if yall believe that i have been slack at this new job. i have been juggling many things at the moment and wish to be able to devote more time and effort, although that does not excuse any lack of quality on my part.


Bah, your doing what you feel needs to be done. You wouldnt be doing it if the other admins/mods didnt agree. Everyone has a suggestion on how you *need* to do things (including me), but when it comes down to it we dont have the responsibility that you do. Lansing just made a suggestion, as i did in my PM to you. These are not OMFG YOUR RUINING EVERYTHING opinions, just suggestions.

Keep doing what you feel you need to do.

[Lansing Kai Don]

i have already received a PM from a new member that i believe i may have scared off. now, as i am a new moderator, i am not offended by your critique of my actions.
of course, Q&A is not representative of the community as a whole. my original impression was that GWG was to be a place where players could get more detailed information about the inner workings of the game. i appreciate that Q&A has devolved from that somewhat as the noob stomping grounds. i do not wish to turn the image of this site into an unwelcome place for neophytes, but the more the same questions are asked, the more it dilutes the actually useful information contained in those forums.

i apologize if yall believe that i have been slack at this new job. i have been juggling many things at the moment and wish to be able to devote more time and effort, although that does not excuse any lack of quality on my part.

Bgnome, once again it's not only you. And you're doing the only thing you can, we understand busy schedules (trust me) we do. But if you're too busy have the admin assign another moderator to the forum to help out till things get straight. You're not alone in your struggles. I understand the problem, that's why I posted. I'll try my best to help with a solution.. and you'll never satisfy everyone but there is always room for improvement. If you scared off a new member, try to reconcile with them and tell them the reason for your actions. Everyone's been there. Like I said, you'll never appease everyone (especially me :D) and yes you'll lose a few in the process of improving but there's nothing that can stop that... you WILL lose members. Because this is not the place for everyone, I believe Sin left here because he posted something about WoW and a moderator/admin not naming names banned him. He was merely trying to change perspectives for some of the people who scoff at other RPG's and wanted to know what the other games are like... but I do believe he went the wrong direction with his post. But yet he left due to being excluded. Sometimes it's inevitable. Sometime's it's not. Back on track, I posted some suggestions that may or may not be implementable (I'm not in your shoes so I don't know everything that is going on). But I do know the feeling of being a new moderator... Oh, this post is for you Bgnome not in general

Lansing Kai Don

[Manderlock]

Bgnome, once again it's not only you. And you're doing the only thing you can, we understand busy schedules (trust me) we do. But if you're too busy have the admin assign another moderator to the forum to help out till things get straight. You're not alone in your struggles. I understand the problem, that's why I posted. I'll try my best to help with a solution.. and you'll never satisfy everyone but there is always room for improvement. If you scared off a new member, try to reconcile with them and tell them the reason for your actions. Everyone's been there. Like I said, you'll never appease everyone (especially me :D) and yes you'll lose a few in the process of improving but there's nothing that can stop that... you WILL lose members. Because this is not the place for everyone, I believe Sin left here because he posted something about WoW and a moderator/admin not naming names banned him. He was merely trying to change perspectives for some of the people who scoff at other RPG's and wanted to know what the other games are like... but I do believe he went the wrong direction with his post. But yet he left due to being excluded. Sometimes it's inevitable. Sometime's it's not. Back on track, I posted some suggestions that may or may not be implementable (I'm not in your shoes so I don't know everything that is going on). But I do know the feeling of being a new moderator... Oh, this post is for you Bgnome not in general

Lansing Kai Don

Holy crap Sin was banned? that sucks :(

[Zai]

but the more the same questions are asked, the more it dilutes the actually useful information contained in those forums.

Again though, locking these posts does not stop the next new member who joins from asking the same question. And if it is such a simple, over-asked question, it will die on its own anyway. There's no reason to lock them.

Just point them to the sticky posts or the search function in a polite manor, and hope they learn to check those features themselves.

[Bgnome]

Instead of 30 stickies at the top of the forums (which some are approaching 15 and therefore a FULL page for the people who set 20 posts per page).. make one sticky with a link to a FAQ. Yes I know, but build up your FAQ with the items already stickied.
this is a good idea and is something that i hope to accomplish. quite a few things are in the works on this site and hopefully will make this job somewhat easier.

Give the user a time limit to respond, say it nicely like. In your forums case, here are the system requirements.. if you have any further questions please ask them in the next 2-3 hours (or even 24 but that'd be hard to track) as we will be deleting this thread shortly. This will only work for the truly generic questions as you stated. And if you could have someone set up a script time to automatically delete the message after a time span that could make it super easy... or just a reminder system.
it would be nice to have a script to do that. unfortunately, it is not in my power to do so. as it stands, i think i would need to "babysit" each such thread for whatever given period of time. as i understand it, many of the preorder posts have been routed to discussions in pre-existing stickies. perhaps there is a better way to go about this?

I notice some threads have been merged (you do have this here right?)... maybe use this more frequently on generic answers since you just plan on closing the threads anyways. Then you could delete the thread and the user will have a place to respond.
i have been experimenting with this feature more today and have understood it as more appealing and less stand-offish than closing a thread. i will try to use this more, although i would need a decent thread to merge it into. many of those discussion stickies have become long and drawn out with people not bothering to read earlier posts in the thread, (including me :p ). i wonder if i should go through and prune out those threads so each post actually adds useful information.

P.S. Like I said, these are suggestions. I'll try to think of some more but I'm really busy at the moment with work and school.
tell me about it :p my schedule is insane right about now with finals next week, preliminary exams, and buying/closing/moving into a new house within the timespan of a month..

Bgnome thanks for taking a constructive path defending yourself... it's always good to see like-minded individuals open to suggestions. And perhaps none of these are implementable, if not maybe some other community members (especially forum goers) will be able to help.
i appreciate everyone's help as it is. i would like to keep it so that educated members can answer questions accurately in Q&A and Tech, so i would not need to do so myself. :D (on the flipside, i would also like to be more active in discouaging members in spreading misinformation, as per the sig). i am always open to constructive opinions..

[Lansing Kai Don]

Holy crap Sin was banned? that sucks :(

Yes, but that's not the topic on hand Manderlock. Besides, I didn't get to read the post and therefore I have no opinion on it. From some of the problems in getting his point across with some of us (including myself), I fear it may have been a bit emotional on the frustration side. But his heart was in the right place.. it was titled How to Make Guild Wars like WoW or something like that, and it asked what you could do to make Guild Wars like WoW or other RPG's..... he's very goot at analyzing things.. but I don't think he's very good at showing other people the item's he analyzed or why he asks some of the questions he does. This was to get a better feel for the other games and therefore know why people think Guild Wars is lacking (and for him to have more knowledge on it).

Lansing Kai Don

[Spooky]

No, he had asked several times by PM for his account to be deleted, and then started making destructive threads (most of which were wiped out) which lead to his banning. He was, quite literally, 'asking for it.' When people put us in a position where we don't have any choice, what else is there to do?

We don't terminate people on the spot unless they do something really wrong... give us a little more credit, eh?

[Inde]

Again though, locking these posts does not stop the next new member who joins from asking the same question. And if it is such a simple, over-asked question, it will die on its own anyway. There's no reason to lock them.

Just point them to the sticky posts or the search function in a polite manor, and hope they learn to check those features themselves.

But then unlocking doesn't make a difference. Furthermore, if a member cannot even try searching for something, then we can do without them.

We are not here for quantity. The focus is on quality.

As for the actual Q&A forum - you ask a question, you get an answer. There are two reasons to lock - 1. If you want to ask a further question, make a new post and 2. More importantly, its to stop people chipping in with wrong answers. Too many time people do not know what they are saying and give people the wrong answer. Locking the thread makes sure that once the user has the correct answer, they won't get confused by further (and incorrect) clarifications.

PS. Sin was not 'banned' on our end. But just like Spooky gets his jollies kicking puppies, banning people feeds my fragile ego.

[Darkmane]

Hi there!

I moderated one forum in my life, I don't think I'd ever want to do it again.

I have mixed feelings about whats happening on this site as a whole. As an official site, you WILL tend to scare away people asking questions by
answering and then closing the thread. Sometimes the answer spawns more questions... You'd rather have them start a new thread? Anyway .. here is a suggestion... because I do not mind at all ' uncluttering a forum by deleting the thread entirely if it is a duplicated or inappropriate post. Delete the post, and send the poster a PM.

Thank you for your post and welcome to our forums!

I am Moderator <insert name here>, of <insert section here>

In an effort to keep the forums free from multiple posts of duplicate questions,
and or innapropriate posts; I have removed your post.
Below, you will find a link that will either answer your question, or
inform you of why your question was removed.

Understand that the removal of your post is by no means a punishment,
it is simply the result of our effort to keep the forums clean, concise,
and informative.

You are welcome to post again after reading the below information if
you feel the information did not fully answer your question.

Please keep in mind we are an official GuildWars site, and as such we hope
to offer vast amounts of player information; And not full of duplicated or
inappropriate comments/questions.


I think something like this would be better than going around closing threads, your going to make people upset, scare people away, and clutter up the board just by having one full of closed threads.

[Manderlock]

No, he had asked several times by PM for his account to be deleted, and then started making destructive threads (most of which were wiped out) which lead to his banning. He was, quite literally, 'asking for it.' When people put us in a position where we don't have any choice, what else is there to do?

We don't terminate people on the spot unless they do something really wrong... give us a little more credit, eh?


Hehe, I know Ive spent a little time in the "joint." :D

[Lansing Kai Don]

this is a good idea and is something that i hope to accomplish. quite a few things are in the works on this site and hopefully will make this job somewhat easier.


it would be nice to have a script to do that. unfortunately, it is not in my power to do so. as it stands, i think i would need to "babysit" each such thread for whatever given period of time. as i understand it, many of the preorder posts have been routed to discussions in pre-existing stickies. perhaps there is a better way to go about this?


i have been experimenting with this feature more today and have understood it as more appealing and less stand-offish than closing a thread. i will try to use this more, although i would need a decent thread to merge it into. many of those discussion stickies have become long and drawn out with people not bothering to read earlier posts in the thread, (including me :p ). i wonder if i should go through and prune out those threads so each post actually adds useful information.


tell me about it :p my schedule is insane right about now with finals next week, preliminary exams, and buying/closing/moving into a new house within the timespan of a month..


i appreciate everyone's help as it is. i would like to keep it so that educated members can answer questions accurately in Q&A and Tech, so i would not need to do so myself. :D (on the flipside, i would also like to be more active in discouaging members in spreading misinformation, as per the sig). i am always open to constructive opinions..

Ok, I understand the babysitting technique... that's why I suggested a script. Maybe have someone help you, I also have final exams, working full time etc... So I will be unavailable till summer. I know the merging could be stand-offish, especially without explanation... it was the ability for the user to continue discussion that appealed to me. And of course, some threads are insanely long and even myself only read the last 10 or so to get an update... so merging there would be impossible and expecting new users to read it by directing there is laughable. Here's a very good suggestion I think.

Make a mini-FAQ called the "10 MOST POPULAR QUESTIONS ASKED"
With all the answers, and limit it to a small number and not make it a long read, i.e. make a link to system requirements instead of listing them. People will more than likely go to something like this instead of reading through it all. Oh and close this thread after you post it, so it appears as a mini-faq and not an on-going one.

Lansing Kai Don

[Lansing Kai Don]

No, he had asked several times by PM for his account to be deleted, and then started making destructive threads (most of which were wiped out) which lead to his banning. He was, quite literally, 'asking for it.' When people put us in a position where we don't have any choice, what else is there to do?

We don't terminate people on the spot unless they do something really wrong... give us a little more credit, eh?


As I said, I didn't read it. Sorry Spooky, I have no opinion on it and I give noone credit. I just posted what he told me. I'd have to have both sides and the material in front of me to make a judgement. I did say he was emotional and I feared what he wrote. But I refuse to give credit until I know both sides of the story and I've only got one (the other one is in a trash can) ;).

Lansing Kai Don

[Inde]

Speaking of FAQ, we are working on populating it so we can send people there.

On a serious note though - if people cannot expand any energy to even look up an answer, they do not deserve one from the forums.

[Bgnome]

Locking a thread is a last resort to stop an inappropriate thread from continuing, it is a disciplinary action.

i understand your point of view, but as inde mentioned, it is a necessary evil regarding Q&A. unfortunately, if it is really putting people off, and even seeking other sources of aid, i am willing to try alternate methods, ie merging into an offcial specific question thread.

something has been brought up in a previous discussion where threads needed to be qualified in order to be able to be posted. perhaps if we reformed Q&A and Tech as such, where each thread was an official "How do I..." thread, people would be able to find answers more efficiently and these forums would reflect the "living FAQ" ideal that they were originally intended for..

[Lansing Kai Don]

But then unlocking doesn't make a difference. Furthermore, if a member cannot even try searching for something, then we can do without them.

We are not here for quantity. The focus is on quality.

As for the actual Q&A forum - you ask a question, you get an answer. There are two reasons to lock - 1. If you want to ask a further question, make a new post and 2. More importantly, its to stop people chipping in with wrong answers. Too many time people do not know what they are saying and give people the wrong answer. Locking the thread makes sure that once the user has the correct answer, they won't get confused by further (and incorrect) clarifications.

PS. Sin was not 'banned' on our end. But just like Spooky gets his jollies kicking puppies, banning people feeds my fragile ego.

I bet since ArenaNet depends on their community site.. they'd disagree with you in terms of sales. They'd prefer you to appease everybody (especially with no monthly charge). And Nascent was right with sometimes other questions reveal themselves that leads to more questions... this is an exponential increase in threads instead of lessening. But what if the question wasn't as generic as it seems, now your quality argument is off... because you fed them some answer they didn't need and now you look horrible in quality. It's better to have 3 people agree on a solution than one generic answer that may not fit the solution (if you ever had to contact customer support you'd know this and why people come to forums). They're not necessarily looking for a generic answer they read off of the customer support site, they want USERS opinions.

Lansing Kai Don

[Lansing Kai Don]

i understand your point of view, but as inde mentioned, it is a necessary evil regarding Q&A. unfortunately, if it is really putting people off, and even seeking other sources of aid, i am willing to try alternate methods, ie merging into an offcial specific question thread.

something has been brought up in a previous discussion where threads needed to be qualified in order to be able to be posted. perhaps if we reformed Q&A and Tech as such, where each thread was an official "How do I..." thread, people would be able to find answers more efficiently and these forums would reflect the "living FAQ" ideal that they were originally intended for..

Yes subcategories (as the How do I....) would be a great item. But not necessarily suited for forums, as some people are looking for users opinions/answers not a generic one. That's why I thought the mini-FAQ of top 10 was a good idea. IF it's not a generic answer and they want users opinions let them have it... and if it is exactly the same as another post. Then work out a solution like Nascent posted (as deleting the post to remove clutter), merge the thread to a similar one again with another Nascent premade post, or the timer thing (which w/o a script would be hard to implement if you're going through the same things I am).

Lansing Kai Don

[Inde]

Q&A Forum - questions with black and white answers. Basic Questions.
Riverside - where other opinions matter.

Locking makes sense. You have a question, it is answered. Sure you might have a related question and you post again - fine. When people search [that is part of the endgoal] then it will be even easier to find the answer they are looking for. One topic deals with one question.

Our mission here is not to be a sales machine for ArenaNet [the other networks do an ample job of that]. Our job is to provide intelligent information, and like I said, the bigger problem is people chiming in with wrong answers. You get an answer to your question - ding. Next up.

[Lansing Kai Don]

Q&A Forum - questions with black and white answers. Basic Questions.
Riverside - where other opinions matter.

Locking makes sense. You have a question, it is answered. Sure you might have a related question and you post again - fine. When people search [that is part of the endgoal] then it will be even easier to find the answer they are looking for. One topic deals with one question.

Our mission here is not to be a sales machine for ArenaNet [the other networks do an ample job of that]. Our job is to provide intelligent information, and like I said, the bigger problem is people chiming in with wrong answers. You get an answer to your question - ding. Next up.

Sorry that I disagree with you Inde. Your own website says
"Do not be scared of asking for knowledge, for it is often the only difference between the townspeople and the village idiot"
How are they not going to be scared if they ask a question, get a generic answer that doesn't fit perfectly? They will. Period. Many will get upset and scared and leave. And are you saying that ANet should not have you as an elite fansite. The fansite to go to where members know what their talking about but you can't ask because your thread was closed after a generic response? And it is impossible to give intelligent information when you don't know the whole question which is rarely given in the initial post. I understand the methodology behind your reasoning, but I don't agree with it. If any business/fansite treated their customers like that... they'd be asking to run themselves out (short of restaraunts and queue type businesses).

Lansing Kai Don

P.S. I'm sorry, I got dragged into this. I merely wanted to post information and offer suggestions, not turn this into a defending/attacking position. Sorry Inde, I disagree with you, but this thread was for improvement not debating the current setup... as it is already evident your community doesn't like it.

[Bgnome]

I bet since ArenaNet depends on their community site.. they'd disagree with you in terms of sales. They'd prefer you to appease everybody (especially with no monthly charge).

i do not think this website was formed with that ideal in mind. remember, most of the admins here came from such forums and wished to develop a deeper community in which the ideals differed from what everyone else believed, not unlike a particular upstart set of developers i will not name.. :p

my problem with stickied faqs is that new posters tend to ignore them. perhaps a mini-FAQ that is a compilation of links to helpful threads? maybe that way, we could eliminate the stickies..

[Loviatar]

one small point on the sales part

nobody can please everybody
if you let everybody talk something to dearh the serious people the site is trying to attract will go elsewhere

that is why there are different sites to cater to different tastes

[Inde]

Lansing, the key word is 'basic' questions. To me, the fine-line between basic and non-basic is that basic has one definitive answer.

[Dreamsmith]

Sometimes the answer spawns more questions... You'd rather have them start a new thread?
If it's a new question, yes! Bloody heck yes! Personally, I get really frustrated when I do a search and I get a bunch of threads, none of which are titled in a way that gives me a hint whether the question is answered there or not. It should be obvious from the title of the thread what question is answered there, particularly in Q&A. If the question's been answered, please, close the thread. If there are more questions, please, open new threads titled with the new question. That would be very helpful for those of us who actually use the search function!

And, BTW, closing a thread is not a disciplinary action. Threads don't misbehave, there's really nothing you can do to them to discipline them.

P.S. Bgnome, boy I don't envy you your job. I got the sweet end of this deal, hehehe...

[Lansing Kai Don]

i do not think this website was formed with that ideal in mind. remember, most of the admins here came from such forums and wished to develop a deeper community in which the ideals differed from what everyone else believed, not unlike a particular upstart set of developers i will not name.. :p

my problem with stickied faqs is that new posters tend to ignore them. perhaps a mini-FAQ that is a compilation of links to helpful threads? maybe that way, we could eliminate the stickies..

I agree, sorry for using sticky. I rarely post in stickies as I find them long and tedious to read (200+ posts). And I'll bet you my savings account ANet does care. I bet you couldn't imagine the risk they put in for this game. If it doesn't succeed... I wouldn't want to contemplate it. EVERY company cares about sales.... so they care about the community... this company relies on it. So I took a logical guess that they'd want the largest amount of people to be happy with their product than a sample few. They don't need 1000 of us to buy the game or even 10,000 they need it be a success. A big success, one to know off other companies and change the RPG industry to no montly fee etc... This is why they care. And why we need to care. If you believe in their positions, you have to care that even those intellectually challenged get something from this game... especially purchase it.

Lansing Kai Don

[Zai]

This is the kind of thing we should be talking about here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4502

Question answered, ok. Lock? Fine. But what reason did you have for saying what you did?

[Lansing Kai Don]

Lansing, the key word is 'basic' questions. To me, the fine-line between basic and non-basic is that basic has one definitive answer.

Then I've never met one basic question in my entire life. Remember, there is even a proof to show that 2 added to 2 is not always 4.

Lansing Kai Don

[Darkmane]

If it's a new question, yes! Bloody heck yes! Personally, I get really frustrated when I do a search and I get a bunch of threads, none of which are titled in a way that gives me a hint whether the question is answered there or not. It should be obvious from the title of the thread what question is answered there, particularly in Q&A. If the question's been answered, please, close the thread. If there are more questions, please, open new threads titled with the new question. That would be very helpful for those of us who actually use the search function!

And, BTW, closing a thread is not a disciplinary action. Threads don't misbehave, there's really nothing you can do to them to discipline them.

My suggestion was simply a suggestion. Your cluttering up your own forums by simply closing a post. If cleaning up is what your trying to do, then I see nothing wrong with deleting the post entirely and providing a link to the answer.

I know closing a thread isn't disciplinary, but others may not, and others may find it more like a **smak** for posting. Which will tend to upset the newcomers.

Not everyone is 'forum literate', and we still have to try to help them along.

ps. I am using 'your' as a general term for the moderators... not you in particular.

[Bgnome]

This is the kind of thing we should be talking about here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4502

Question answered, ok. Lock? Fine. But what reason did you have for saying what you did?
that is fairly simple. i have already reported this particular user. if you check his post history, he had already posted a similar thread here (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4431) that i felt was directly dealt with. this particular user decided to press the issue. i do not enjoy such things.

My suggestion was simply a suggestion. Your cluttering up your own forums by simply closing a post. If cleaning up is what your trying to do, then I see nothing wrong with deleting the post entirely and providing a link to the answer.
one would not be able to view the link if posted in a deleted thread. i could possibly PM such information, but there is a good chance that many will not read PMs as well. when i administrated on another board, i had manually turned on the PM popup to try to make them more noticeable but have not seen such a feature on these boards.

[Inde]

Zai that was beyond Q&A. You have to buy the game. End of story.

As for the cluttering up, I have said it time and time again. One topic per thread. When you search (which everyone should do first), it makes finding an answer *MUCH* easier

... And I have no clue where 2+2=4 comes into this. This is Guild Wars Q&A, not Philosophy Q&A

[Lansing Kai Don]

If it's a new question, yes! Bloody heck yes! Personally, I get really frustrated when I do a search and I get a bunch of threads, none of which are titled in a way that gives me a hint whether the question is answered there or not. It should be obvious from the title of the thread what question is answered there, particularly in Q&A. If the question's been answered, please, close the thread. If there are more questions, please, open new threads titled with the new question. That would be very helpful for those of us who actually use the search function!

And, BTW, closing a thread is not a disciplinary action. Threads don't misbehave, there's really nothing you can do to them to discipline them.

P.S. Bgnome, boy I don't envy you your job. I got the sweet end of this deal, hehehe...

You honestly think that more threads are going to solve this? That reminds me of a suggestion (or maybe something I don't know yet). How about a way to look for phrases? I don't see the option, I thought double quotes would do it but they don't. Maybe users are trying the same methods and getting a bajillion (yes real number lol) results and don't want to look through them all.

Lansing Kai Don

[Zai]

And, BTW, closing a thread is not a disciplinary action. Threads don't misbehave, there's really nothing you can do to them to discipline them.

Sorry if that went a bit over your head. I should have clarified. The disciplinary action is on the posters in the thread, usually the OP. Usually a mod locks a thread because it is breaking the forum rules, and it's accompanied by a warning or ban. ;)

[Lansing Kai Don]

Zai that was beyond Q&A. You have to buy the game. End of story.

As for the cluttering up, I have said it time and time again. One topic per thread. When you search (which everyone should do first), it makes finding an answer *MUCH* easier

... And I have no clue where 2+2=4 comes into this. This is Guild Wars Q&A, not Philosophy Q&A

It's not even philsophy it's science. But you said one definitive answer. I say there is no such thing... perhaps looking past your own perspective? I agree on the cluttering up, that is why we're trying to find solutions... maybe a suggestion? Besides, closing threads without deleting them.

Lansing Kai Don

P.S. I need to add, that I see your perspective and while many things can be wrapped up in a one definitive solution "system requirements'", some do not. Hence, why I started this thread from people looking for solutions they weren't getting here. I, personally, would like to see this place stay filled with knowledgeable users, not just mods/admins.

[Bgnome]

perhaps it is more acceptable to close a thread that has a question that can be answered in one or two lines?
i believe that the suggestions so far are mostly valid and i am sure at least i am giving them some further thought..

if posting wrong answers is the issue, perhaps we need to get that karma system going? we could strike down those that post inappropriate answers and reward those that post useful and informative answers..

[Zai]

that is fairly simple. i have already reported this particular user. if you check his post history, he had already posted a similar thread here (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4431) that i felt was directly dealt with. this particular user decided to press the issue. i do not enjoy such things.

It's still not a good idea for a mod to make comments like that. It's true after seeing his first post that he may have deserved such a comment, but you have to understand that other people are not going to bother checking his post history (I didn't). They see a mod flaming a poster who asked a simple question, and they will not think highly of you. As a mod you walk on egg shells, you need to remember you represent this site. It's not just the people you make the comments to that will get upset, but people who read them.

[Scaphism]

But if you're[BGnome] too busy have the admin assign another moderator to the forum to help out till things get straight. You're not alone in your struggles.
BGnome is our new mod, brought in specifically to help with the Q&A forum. We haven't abandoned him there to the wolves by any means, we're still there, modding away, trying to make the site the most informative GW site around.

I believe Sin left here because he posted something about WoW and a moderator/admin not naming names banned him.
If you're not naming names, I will. I was the first mod on the scene when Sin started spamming new threads, and I stand by my decision to delete them as spam. We've stated on multiple occasions in the Sanitarium and other forums that Guild Wars is not a copy of Game X in different clothes. Sin is an intelligent poster and he was well aware of the fact.
However, by no means did I "ban him on the spot." He was put on timeout, essentially, and as Spooky and the others have pointed out, he requested multiple times to have his account deleted.
I have never banned anyone, and I hope I never have to. However, if the situation warrants banning, rest assured that weighty decisions like those are not made "on the spot." They are carefully weighed out and then acted on. And if I do ban someone, it will be for a good reason.

Finally, it's important that community members come to us with feedback on how we can improve the site, just as is being done here. I make an effort to send a PM when I delete or moderate a thread. I am available to contact through PMs and I am often on the guru IRC channel. The fast response of the mods to this thread is just one piece of evidence about how much we value the community members here.

[Bgnome]

As a mod you walk on egg shells, you need to remember you represent this site. It's not just the people you make the comments to that will get upset, but people who read them.


i apologize if i have offended you. unfortunately, i am not one to walk upon eggshells. i do believe that i have the capability to hadle things with tact, as i hope my initial posts in this thread can illustrate, but i have no patience for the ignorant. i felt that this particular user had bad intentions from the getgo, even naming a new thread with a deceptive title. i feel that my post in the thread you linked is an accurate statement in such that if one cannot afford luxuries, at least make sure one's priorities are in order, ie food, clothing, shelter, etc. so such limitied resources are well spent. i did not believe that i needed to clarify the statement as such, but apologize if i gave you the wrong impression.

[Dreamsmith]

Sorry if that went a bit over your head. I should have clarified. The disciplinary action is on the posters in the thread, usually the OP. Usually a mod locks a thread because it is breaking the forum rules, and it's accompanied by a warning or ban. ;)
Sorry if my reply went over your head. Banning a user, restricting a user, or doing something to a user could be a disciplinary action against a user. Nothing you can do to a thread could possibly be considered a disciplinary action against any user. The disciplinary action is not on the posters in the thread because it isn't a disciplinary action to begin with. If disciplinary actions are taken, that's another issue entirely, but closing a thread is not a disciplinary action no matter how you slice it. Sorry if my last reply didn't make that clear.

[Lansing Kai Don]

BGnome is our new mod, brought in specifically to help with the Q&A forum. We haven't abandoned him there to the wolves by any means, we're still there, modding away, trying to make the site the most informative GW site around.


If you're not naming names, I will. I was the first mod on the scene when Sin started spamming new threads, and I stand by my decision to delete them as spam. We've stated on multiple occasions in the Sanitarium and other forums that Guild Wars is not a copy of Game X in different clothes. Sin is an intelligent poster and he was well aware of the fact.
However, by no means did I "ban him on the spot." He was put on timeout, essentially, and as Spooky and the others have pointed out, he requested multiple times to have his account deleted.
I have never banned anyone, and I hope I never have to. However, if the situation warrants banning, rest assured that weighty decisions like those are not made "on the spot." They are carefully weighed out and then acted on. And if I do ban someone, it will be for a good reason.

Finally, it's important that community members come to us with feedback on how we can improve the site, just as is being done here. I make an effort to send a PM when I delete or moderate a thread. I am available to contact through PMs and I am often on the guru IRC channel. The fast response of the mods to this thread is just one piece of evidence about how much we value the community members here.

I know Bgnome is your new mod. But you realize his position, and I was simply impying he has help. It's a compliment ;). IF your part of the story is true, and I can't take it as such. Then I'd lean towards Sin's not being banned... but I'd have to see the original posts. I wouldn't be able to make a judgement otherwise. Scaphism, you earned some points for sticking by your decision... but banning for 2 days or a year... it's still banning and the same emotional response ensues. If he asked for his account deleted before the post , I don't understand why he would but then I'd lean your way. But as since I'm not in your shoes I don't know the whole story... so therefore can't condone your actions. And you missed his point, he was trying to learn more about Game X and the lacking of Guild Wars you see from these games perspectives. He took a different direction than we've tried in the past... a more abstract direction.

Lansing Kai Don

P.S. On that last paragraph I'm not sure if your fellow mods/admins agree with you. But thanks for letting me know you care.. it means alot to us. Especially since we're the ones dealing with authority we can't see and feel. It's good to see your open to suggestions. That's what this thread started out as.

[Bgnome]

And you missed his point, he was trying to learn more about Game X and the lacking of Guild Wars you see from these games perspectives. He took a different direction than we've tried in the past... a more abstract direction.

Lansing Kai Don

yes, but he was knowledgable enough to know a better way to do it. from what i saw, as i have no idea about PMs nor was i tracking his earlier behavior, he went about it by spamming a whole lot of threads and went fishing for flames.

[Whosa Skylore]

yes, sin did want his account deleted, and before he did he sent me a couple of pms and i tried to talk him out of leaving. i would link those pms but 1) im not supposed to do that i dont think 2) i deleted them. well since we allready have it up, he left because of the same reason you guys are mad he said that "the power of guru is goin to the admins head" and he said this because he wrote a like page answer to a guys question and one of the admins wrote a short answer right after his, like not giving credit to his answer or something (i didnt get it that much) but one thing he did and you guys didnt, is he didnt bring it live and everything, and personally i think this thread should have been in a pm, insted of starting this huge fire. but i was just clearing up why sin wanted his account deleted, dont know why this helps, but i just wish this had been in pm.

[Scaphism]

If he asked for his account deleted before the post
Chronology: He sent a PM to a mod earlier in the day asking for his account to be deleted, then he started creating multiple spam threads. There's your timeline, make your judgements.
but banning for 2 days or a year... it's still banning and the same emotional response ensues.
I disagree. A ban here means a permanent ban. A timeout is just that- time out. You get to come back afterwards. You may be upset about it, but you have time to sit back, reflect, and come back with more insight, hopefully.

[Darkmane]

one would not be able to view the link if posted in a deleted thread. i could possibly PM such information, but there is a good chance that many will not read PMs as well. when i administrated on another board, i had manually turned on the PM popup to try to make them more noticeable but have not seen such a feature on these boards.


I thought that you may edit your own post after you realized what I posted originally was just that. Sending a pm with the link at the bottom. If its a valid/new question, then theres no reason to delete the thread in the first place. Unlike some forum boards that are not easy to spot whether you have a PM or not, you can easily see this. And since many of the moderators have spoken about how 'a poster that does not know how to use the search function may not be a poster we want here anyway' Then the same reasoning could apply here. If they cannot read their pm's .... do you want them posting here too?

Regardless, since I felt you mis-read or didn't read my entire post on the first page, I felt I would clarify.... I did mean for you to send a pm with a link that answerd their question, and informed them of why it was deleted.

cheers!

[Lansing Kai Don]

yes, sin did want his account deleted, and before he did he sent me a couple of pms and i tried to talk him out of leaving. i would link those pms but 1) im not supposed to do that i dont think 2) i deleted them. well since we allready have it up, he left because of the same reason you guys are mad he said that "the power of guru is goin to the admins head" and he said this because he wrote a like page answer to a guys question and one of the admins wrote a short answer right after his, like not giving credit to his answer or something (i didnt get it that much) but one thing he did and you guys didnt, is he didnt bring it live and everything, and personally i think this thread should have been in a pm, insted of starting this huge fire. but i was just clearing up why sin wanted his account deleted, dont know why this helps, but i just wish this had been in pm.


I've got to leave from work and go to class. So I am unable to respond to anything after this. But why do you want to keep dirt under the rug, so to speak? I also received PM's by him, that's what started the initial response but they were not pinning blame.. just a retaliatory response from a man with his ideas/feelings bashed. I did keep the PM's and I would post them but I believe they were sent in confidentiality and if Sin wanted me to. I would, so the admins/mods would see it from his perspective (not saying he's right, but it never hurts to see things from all sides). If the admin/mods went into my PM's to retrieve it I'd consider it an invasion of privacy also. I don't know if you allow that kind of power exercised here, but you would not be seeing me again.

Lansing Kai Don

[Bgnome]

Regardless, since I felt you mis-read or didn't read my entire post on the first page, I felt I would clarify.... I did mean for you to send a pm with a link that answerd their question, and informed them of why it was deleted.

cheers!

normally, i would consider this as a good rule of thumb. on the other hand, i am not looking forward to the increase in my workload and PM box maintenance that this would lead to.. :o

[Zai]

doing something to a user could be a disciplinary action against a user.

...

Locking a thread somebody started is an action against them. It is doing something to them. It's stopping them from continuing a topic they wanted to discuss.

:rolleyes:

[ratatass]

Bgnome keep it up. I like your rapid closing of threads. Many of the questions can be found by search.

So, please don't back off...keep closing them. We need focus on this site.

Good Job Bgnome!

[Whosa Skylore]

i agree fully, everytime i see a post where im like...you dumb butt next second i look its closed with the answer or sticky that he could of just looked at. goodjob BGnomb. also,
But why do you want to keep dirt under the rug, so to speak?

what do you mean? why would i want this in pm? because tis is an issue only admins really need to know about, you dont need to share it with the whole guru site.

[Loviatar]

...

Locking a thread somebody started is an action against them. It is doing something to them. It's stopping them from continuing a topic they wanted to discuss.

:rolleyes:

please understand that this is not an unlimited free speech area.

it is private property we have the privilige of visiting and the owners apply house rules.

i like their style as it reminds me of a very friendly well diciplined site that closed when the owner moved.

[Zai]

please understand that this is not an unlimited free speech area.

I have no idea what you're getting at. I never came close to even implying that it was.

[Davion]

Maintaining existing threads takes up active server space. By suggesting the usage of the search function before creating a thread on the same topic they are trying to maintain a streamlined focus to the forums. No personal actions against any individual are intended when they close threads. It is merely a way for them to keep the site efficient and non-redundant. In the long run, it works so much more for the better. ;)

[Loviatar]

I have no idea what you're getting at. I never came close to even implying that it was.

...

Locking a thread somebody started is an action against them. It is doing something to them. It's stopping them from continuing a topic they wanted to discuss.

:rolleyes:

that sure looks like it :)

[Darkmane]

Maintaining existing threads takes up active server space. By suggesting the usage of the search function before creating a thread on the same topic they are trying to maintain a streamlined focus to the forums. No personal actions against any individual are intended when they close threads. It is merely a way for them to keep the site efficient and non-redundant. In the long run, it works so much more for the better. ;)

Whether you want to think so or not, closing a thread insinuates a sign of anamosity towards the poster, and as I stated since this is an Official forum/site, you do not want to deter people away that simply don't know any better by closing a thread. Get rid of it entirely if the cleaning up is whats intended; along with stopping the 'multitude of duplicate posts'

Then why keep the thread at all and close it?... remove the thread.. point the poster to the right sticky, area, or reason why it was removed. Thank them for their input and have a nice day.

LOL .. mod Bg fanboys coming out of the woodwork!

[Zai]

that sure looks like it :)

No it doesn't. Nowhere did I say mods don't have the right to lock whatever they want to. Did you read my earlier posts and the posts I was replying to? Or did you take that paragraph out of context, because that's what it looks like to me.

[Loviatar]

No it doesn't. Nowhere did I say mods don't have the right to lock whatever they want to. Did you read my earlier posts and the posts I was replying to? Or did you take that paragraph out of context, because that's what it looks like to me.

full post number 57
nothing taken out of context

i do not do things like that :p

[Lansing Kai Don]

I've got to leave from work and go to class. So I am unable to respond to anything after this. But why do you want to keep dirt under the rug, so to speak? I also received PM's by him, that's what started the initial response but they were not pinning blame.. just a retaliatory response from a man with his ideas/feelings bashed. I did keep the PM's and I would post them but I believe they were sent in confidentiality and if Sin wanted me to. I would, so the admins/mods would see it from his perspective (not saying he's right, but it never hurts to see things from all sides). If the admin/mods went into my PM's to retrieve it I'd consider it an invasion of privacy also. I don't know if you allow that kind of power exercised here, but you would not be seeing me again.

Lansing Kai Don


I am quoting myself because on reflection I've found that I deviated far from the original thread. This was NOT intended to go this route, so I fully expect and hope the admins will delete any of my posts that do not pertain to the original thread... I am sorry for encouragaing discussion in a wrongful direction (I get sidetracked easily). While I encourage these discussions, they can be moved to a different thread. I don't mind other people here moving off topic, but as for me (the original poster) it was wrong of me. Sorry. Now back on topic, Bgnome did you think of any other possible conclusions.. by the way I'm still in class but on a restroom break. I also will have a lot to do tonight and may not be on later. That's how much I love you guys, I used my restroom break to come back and apologize.

Lansing Kai Don

[Dreamsmith]

Locking a thread somebody started is an action against them. It is doing something to them. It's stopping them from continuing a topic they wanted to discuss.
You're missing the point again. I didn't say it didn't affect them. I said it wasn't a disciplinary action. That's not the purpose behind any of the thread closings that we do here. An action can affect (and even hurt) someone without it being a disciplinary action. We aren't closing threads in an attempt to punish anyone.

[Zai]

You're missing the point again. I didn't say it didn't affect them. I said it wasn't a disciplinary action. That's not the purpose behind any of the thread closings that we do here. An action can affect (and even hurt) someone without it being a disciplinary action. We aren't closing threads in an attempt to punish anyone.

I see the problem here.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discipline

Discipline doesn't only mean to punish.

[Manderlock]

This has been going for too damn long.

Mods/admins make mistakes there human too.

This started as a helpful suggestion, now its truned into the blame game.

If you think you know how to make it better, leave a post. If not you should refrain from posting.

At the start of this I though it was a good idea, i.e. why I posted on it. Im sorry for asking about sin, that just took us further from the real issue.

So please no more underhanded comments, it makes me sad how a real issue can be covered up by so much crap.

[Whosa Skylore]

To punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience. See Synonyms at punish.

it means both, but closing a thread is not punishing them, end of discuaaion. if they were ment to be punished they would get a warning of even banned.

[THX]

First of all, let me state a few words about the Sin incident. We do not ban individuals for having made simple mistakes, nor do we participate in so-called "witch hunts". However, users are banned if they cross the line. The line is not unjust, as it is based in common sense. I don't believe any non-admin/mod may fully understand the reasoning behind our decision, nor would it be right for us to push it into the public eye. However, I will state this: What you hear and what you believe to be true is not always factual, as reprimand-based discussions are inherently deceitful. Our decision was thought out, it was fair and it was collectively decided based upon numerous tangible and intangible factors over a period of time. I do not believe the topic should be further discussed, as there is too much misinformation and in the end, our actions were justified.

Secondly, I believe feedback and suggestions are necessary and valuable. Many quality comments have been made and we will at the very least consider their potential benefit. However, it is in my current opinion that we are indeed pursuing the correct path, albeit it is a somewhat unpopular stance. From my experience, to not actively hinder certain discussions a forum will eventually become a mess too large to clean up. Essentially, you are what you see. If a new member witnesses others asking simple obvious (answered) questions, apparently without searching, chances are the behavior will be reproduced. Do we dislike this because we do not wish to take the time and correctly answer the questions? No, this is not the case. It is merely, from experience, an effective way of curbing redundancy and allowing new discussions to receive the attention they deserve.

Lastly, closing a thread is not in any way or form a sign of animosity towards the forum member. The site generally operates on a macro level, a thread is closed because it needs to be closed. Do some members perceive their thread's closure as an insult? Maybe, if so the user is likely a little too self-important. Forum moderation is as a whole generally impersonal and it would be wise to perceive it that way.

Feel free to continue discussing the issue, however remember that this is not an us versus them situation. We close threads because we believe it is the right thing to do, not because we take pleasure from it.

[Dreamsmith]

Discipline doesn't only mean to punish.
No, it doesn't. And, indeed, there are also two definitions of disciplinary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disciplinary) (the actual word you used). However, neither applies in this case. As I said before, closing a thread is not a disciplinary action.

You seem obsessed with the idea that each time I disagree with you, it must be because I didn't understand what you were saying. I understood perfectly each time. Clarifying isn't necessary, I know exactly what you meant. You just happen to be wrong.

It's not done to punish the users who posted in that thread, it's not done to train the users in that thread, it's not done to in any way personally affect any of the users of that thread at all. It may very well affect them, but that's not why it's done. It's impersonal, as said above, or one could remotely say it's for the benefit of those users who will be reading the fora later. If it bruises the feelings of the people who posted in that thead, sorry, but it's not an attempt to do anything at all to those users, punish or otherwise!

[Zai]

To punish in order to gain control or enforce obedience.

Wrong. Once again I'm not talking about punishment (at all). Discipline is also the act of enforcing rules, such as locking a thread that is against the forum rules. That is an act of discipline, that is an act of enforcing the order on the forums. As such when your thread gets locked you feel as if you did something wrong. This was my point.

Edit: Wow.

OK, step by step.

Discipline - A state of order based on submission to rules and authority
Disciplined - To impose order on
Disciplinary - Of, relating to, or used for discipline

A thread breaks the forum rules, say it discusses a subject not appropriate like warez. It is locked. Why? To impose order on the forums. That is a disciplinary action. The original topic starter had his thread locked, he can no longer continue the subject that was against the rule, order was imposed on him, he was disciplined. Do I need to continue? At no point was I ever talking about punishment.

[Lansing Kai Don]

First of all, let me state a few words about the Sin incident. We do not ban individuals for having made simple mistakes, nor do we participate in so-called "witch hunts". However, users are banned if they cross the line. The line is not unjust, as it is based in common sense. I don't believe any non-admin/mod may fully understand the reasoning behind our decision, nor would it be right for us to push it into the public eye. However, I will state this: What you hear and what you believe to be true is not always factual, as reprimand-based discussions are inherently deceitful. Our decision was thought out, it was fair and it was collectively decided based upon numerous tangible and intangible factors over a period of time. I do not believe the topic should be further discussed, as there is too much misinformation and in the end, our actions were justified.

Secondly, I believe feedback and suggestions are necessary and valuable. Many quality comments have been made and we will at the very least consider their potential benefit. However, it is in my current opinion that we are indeed pursuing the correct path, albeit it is a somewhat unpopular stance. From my experience, to not actively hinder certain discussions a forum will eventually become a mess too large to clean up. Essentially, you are what you see. If a new member witnesses others asking simple obvious (answered) questions, apparently without searching, chances are the behavior will be reproduced. Do we dislike this because we do not wish to take the time and correctly answer the questions? No, this is not the case. It is merely, from experience, an effective way of curbing redundancy and allowing new discussions to receive the attention they deserve.

Lastly, closing a thread is not in any way or form a sign of animosity towards the forum member. The site generally operates on a macro level, a thread is closed because it needs to be closed. Do some members perceive their thread's closure as an insult? Maybe, if so the user is likely a little too self-important. Forum moderation is as a whole generally impersonal and it would be wise to perceive it that way.

Feel free to continue discussing the issue, however remember that this is not an us versus them situation. We close threads because we believe it is the right thing to do, not because we take pleasure from it.

First paragraph, justification is a perception on those who deem the justice justifiable. Yeh alliteration, isn't it great.. but I'm not going any further... as I said not the direction I wanted.

Second paragraph, from my own experience in forums the direction you're going is leading to certain death... otherwise I'd have said nothing.

Third paragraph, agreed but if totally impersonal there is a cold stand-offish feeling (what we're trying to avoid with these suggestions).

Last paragraph, that was what this forum was meant to be. Suggestions, nothing more... just wisdom and innovation passed on.

Lansing Kai Don

[Dreamsmith]

Guys, sorry, but I think at this point we're just going around in circles rather than suggesting anything new or helpful.

There is no perfect solution to this kind of problem, and no matter what option you choose, it's going to have positive effects somewhere and negative impacts somewhere else. Which positives are most important and which negatives are most tolerable are subjective opinions, there is no one right answer here.

Those who are doing the actions, who have the job of making these judgments, have explained their rationale. We've all had our say about it, and we still don't see eye to eye. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.