Stalker class idea, A Vampire.

[BahamutKaiser]

The Stalker

This is my class idea, for what is typically known as a Vampire. A vampire usually has roots and origins in mythos and historical events, like Christianity, and Dracula, but those things don’t exist in GW, so trying to draw conclusions about vampires based on real world mythos isn’t appropriate, this includes their origins, weaknesses, or powers.

I already wrote a nice long story, “Tale of the Dark Stalker”, which is an elaborate idea for a chapters background, as well as an explanation of the First Vampires origin. The stereotypical vampire is weak to crosses, evil, and blasphemous to “God”, so in this case I have developed a class which uses powers which are now forbidden by the gods because of the calamity they caused, interestingly enough, this is the reason why Vampires are only on Forlusha (the continent in the story), which goes along with the natural construct of only being able to make this new class in this chapter.

Here is a link to the story.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3035147

The class is similar to Elementist, in that he uses powers derived from each god, but each power is focal on countering a certain kind of attack, or an alternate version of that gods powers, all of which are unnatural, and now forbidden.

The name for the class could most classically be called Vampire, but from the start it automatically mirrors Necromancers vampiric skills in the Blood Attribute. Because of the comparison, another name may be better, but the way Necromancer utilizes blood magic in a life stealing manner in comparison to this Vampires physical “assaults” which not only siphon life from their enemy, but immobilize them, are quite different, this I will explain further as the more unique feature of this class. Some other titles which would fit the class would be Stalker, Forsaken (by the gods), or some kind of Vampire hybrid title like a Vampir or the like. The other title which would well suit the class could be something like Incubus or Succubus, but it would have to be one title for male and female, and unless there is ambiguous title for male and female seduction demons, this wouldn’t work, although it would be a great set of armor.

Vampire may be too similar to Necromancers blood magics to be considered as a class, I know. But since classes like Ritualist, which use the spirits of the dead instead of the corpses of the dead, share a name with some of the skills a necromancer has, and moreover, are known as necromancers in the White Mantle army, as well as serve Grenth, since Ritualist is so similar to necromancer, I don’t feel an actual vampire class is uncalled for. Vampires are yet unknown, leaving the origin of such titles like Vampiric Bite miscellaneous. If Vampire isn’t going to be a class, it should at least be an enemy.

And the usual argument, a vampire can be made putting this or that class together like Ranger/Necro, will always come up. Wile ranger can use necromancers life stealing skills well, this Vampiric classes skills will be about as similar to necromancers blood magics as Ritualist Spirits are to Elementist Wards.

If you’ve read the story, you already know what the powers are for the vampire will be.

“Seduction”, the attribute which uses gender specific hexes, which will cause alternate effects depending on whether you use them on the opposite gender or same gender.
Against the opposite gender, Seduction hexes naturally seduce your enemy, against the same gender these same hexes will cause jealously, and likewise have a different effect. This attribute is focal on gender specific hexes and hex defense, with stances that increase the casting time of hexes targeting you from the opposite gender, as well as some natural defensive stances which screw around with both opposite and same gender enemies. Some examples would be a stance which causes enemies at your location to miss 50% of the time against any target besides you, a kind of actual distraction, and the skills which throw hexes you are suffering onto an enemy. The skills in this attribute should gear toward hex manipulation and defense, along with some generally effective techniques. This power comes from Lyssa.

“Transformation”, this attribute transforms you into a monstrous beast.
One of the big pitfalls of transformation would be enemies, especially demihumans which transform into a were creature, so a certain form isn’t appropriate, instead, this creature is simply a monstrous creature which is not particular to one creature, it just has large claws, large fangs, maybe horns and a hardened hide, something like a saber tooth tiger mixed with a reptile, the monstrous creature could looking different for other races. This Attribute focuses on adapting to melee comba. There would likely be a few different kinds of transformation, some transformations would be to add more damage to your attack wile reducing attack rate, some would be to add more defense, and perhaps some stronger transformations like an Elite would improve attack and defense. This attribute would include attack skills which work wile in a transformation. Increased points in Transformation increase your damage and chance of critical with any melee weapon wile your in a Transformed state. Using Transformation would increase your attack and critical with more points in this attribute, and then some more based on the transformation skill you used, this attribute has the capability to increase your characters attack power a great deal wile in a transformed state, but casting spells will transformed take twice as long, making it difficult to use any spell casting wile in this state. This attribute also includes skills which resist the effects of conditions, and reduce condition durations. This power comes from Melandru.

“Frozen Fire”, or Frozen Flame, or Freezing Flame, this attribute has the power to deal ice damage which causes burning, and raise Barriers.
Technically it is an unnatural freezing inflammation, but in actuality they are just ice damage spells that cause burning, instead of fire spells. This attribute is focal on reducing elemental damage at your location, and gains special effects if you are attacked by Fire or Ice damage. The idea for this attribute is a class which casts a Ward like effect at his location. But unlike Elementist Wards, the caster becomes immobile, and cannot activate any attack skills wile he is maintaining this effect, we can call these Barriers. Wile this attribute would contain some offensive spells, similar to fire magics, with ice damage, the majority of these skills should be geared toward making Barriers. These Barriers create effects on an area the radius of a location, and perhaps larger. Offensive
Barriers would have an radius as small as a location, and perhaps 50% wider, they can deal Heavy DoT damage on that location, because they require closer proximity to an enemy to deal damage on them, and because the Vampire becomes immobilized until the Barrier ends, or it will interrupt the effect, the Vampire is also unable to use physical attacks in the case that someone comes near them, but they can continue to cast other spells. Some of the Defensive Barriers can extend to effect areas the same radius as a binding ritual, these barriers would focus on reducing elemental damage, and perhaps causing Frozen Flame damage to enemies attacking your allies. Attack spells in this line would include effects which deal extra damage if you are hit with damage or conditions/hexes related to fire or ice spells.

“Vampirism”, this attribute has a unique skill as well as some attacks, defensive stances, and movement skills.
The Vampires Bite type skills are a new kind of stance/shutdown, which has a very unusual effect. First of all, in order to “feed” on an enemy, you have to be within touching distance, when the skill takes effect, it immobilizes the target, so they can’t move, at which time you feed on them in a particular feed stance. Wile you are feeding on the enemy you cannot use any other skills, or the feeding will end, different feeding skills will gain health from the enemy in different ways and last for different amounts of time. When an enemy is being fed on he can still use skills, but he cannot move, he can also not be attacked by any other enemies, so in a way it works as a sort of protection against any other enemies. If the person who initiated the feeding is damaged wile feeding, the damage is also dealt equally to the victim, degen conditions or hexes will not effect the victim, but if you start attacking the Vampire wile he is feeding on your teammate, you will be damaging your teammate as well. With added points in Vampirism, Skills related to vampirism will increase in power, and if you take damage wile feeding, you will absorb a certain amount of life from the enemy, increasing with points in Vampirism.

Vampirism is a melee attack attribute, and the only attribute which has a weapon associated with it, added points in this attribute will also increase your damage with this weapon (elemental spirit claws) but does not increase your rate of critical. This attribute also includes some very interesting skills, like blood attack skills, which cost adrenaline and health (not sacrifice but a certain amount of health), if you are already bleeding when you use a Blood attack skill, you do not lose the designated amount of health the skill requires. These blood attack skills increase in Damage and health loss as you increase points in vampirism, some of these attacks are ranged, and they are part of your weapons attack so they add to the damage of your weapons attack, they are attack damage not spell damage. The typical blood projectile attacks fire a homing projectile (spinning crescent blade), which moves half as fast as an arrow. Because of the speed of the projectile, you can run from it, but it is homing so it will continue to follow you until it hits you or a blocking object, although some may work like normal projectiles or move faster. Unlike first three attributes, this was not created by one of the gods, but rather stolen, from Dwayna, her powers of life and air have been reversed into life stealing and blood mixed with the power of air (this is where the flying blood blades come from). This attribute also has a stance which has high evasion and a stance which has increased speed. As for Feeding counters, when the Vampire activates a feed skill, he is in a special stance, any of these can be interrupted by a stance breaking skill, and these can be interrupted by a knockdown, if an enemy doesn’t have these abilities then he can try keeping his teammate alive by healing them, although these feeding skills don’t kill very fast unless you start attacking the Feeder only doing more damage to your teammate. Any skill which prevents knockdown also prevents feeding. Feeding Stances are different from normal stances, and cannot be mirrored either, they are like Weapon Enchantments compared to Normal Enchantments, similar but not quite the same. This attribute could also include some energy feeding bites as well.

“Forbidden Power” is the last Attribute, it doesn’t come from any of the 5 original gods, instead it comes from the patriarch of the Vampire Race, a self proclaimed god. In the story Eathin Rosha gains these powers from the gods, but along with his powers from the gods he also has an inward power he gained from elsewhere, which further enhances his powers, and made him a threat to the gods themselves.
Forbidden Power, which is the vampires primary attribute, increases the vampires health which each point in Forbidden power, adds an additional amount of life stealing per second to feeding skills, and adds regeneration to transformations. For each point in Forbidden Power increases the health stolen per second wile feeding by 2, increases the vampires health by 7 or 10, and add 1 point of health regen for every 4 points in this attribute wile in a transformation. Exactly how balanced it would be would have to be put to the test, it may not work quite right, but the attribute should increase the vampires health and increase health stolen per second by feeding skills by at least 2 for each point. This attribute would also include some ambiguous skills, similar to divine Favor. This is much like Elementists Energy storage attribute, but because giving a class twice as much health is broken compared to giving a class twice as much energy, I tried to divide it up among several smaller improvements. It may be very appropriate for this class to have a lot of extra health in the advent that many of his skills in all of his attributes have health costs besides just Vampirism.

The vampire doesn’t use health sacrifice like Necromancer, skills which cost health on the Vampire deal more damage to the enemy and himself as you raise points in Vampirism, this is offset by the Vampires higher health and can be avoided by bleeding. There will likely be an enchantment in Vampirism which allows the Vampire to cast his self damaging attacks and skills without losing health as well, and an Elite, which steals health in the amount lost when he uses an attack that cost him health. The Feeding skills would range in capabilities, the first and most common feeding skill can only work if the enemy is bleeding, in which case you gain health regeneration in the amount of their degeneration, lasting about 5 seconds, this skill could be cast often, perhaps every 15 seconds, but not only could this skill be interrupted by a stance break or knockdown, and defended from anti-knockdown skills the same as any other feeding skill, but if the enemy is cured of bleeding wile your feeding on them, it is also interrupted. Some of the more advanced feeding skills would steal a certain amount of life per second for 5 seconds, or Health Siphoning directly. A good Elite would hold onto the enemy for 10 seconds and siphon 2 degen, and when the feeding ends it steals a certain amount of health for each second you feeding on the target. Feeding skills would usually cost adrenaline, and you lose all adrenaline when you use a feeding skill.

To elaborate on the weapons a bit, they are Spirit claws, typically of an elemental type, these are typically elemental, and can be modded. They are naturally melee, but some of the blood attack skills can actually deal ranged damage with these melee weapons as a modifier, giving them mid and full ranged attacks. These claws would look like translucent blades attached to the outside of the tip of the finger, with the hand straight they extend off the finger tip, but also down the outside of the hand, but with the fingers bent, they remain aligned with the furthest joint of the finger tip, with the blade protruding forwards from the finger and backwards. This is where I wish I could draw a diagram and knew how to post my pictures on the forums.

These weapons are made of the vampires spiritual power, the average claw does air elemental damage, if it doesn’t have any other mod added to the weapon, it will be air elemental damage. Vampiric mods would actually be bad for a Feeder Vampire because you sitting there with degen wile your feeding…. Not good. These weapons take up both hands, they attack at the same rate as Hammer, but the damage is weaker, like horn bow, they have a natural 10% armor penetration. You need these weapons equipped in order to use Blood Attacks from the Vampirism Attribute, but the Transformation Attribute has skills which add damage to any melee weapon you use, sword, dagger, hammer, or spirit claws.

The armor is also made of Spiritual Power, often looking formal similar to Mesmer, but having a hard consistency which repels attacks well. I will try to get some pictures to show what I mean, maybe I will post them here if someone can show me how.
The base armor rate is 75 or 80, and the armor has +5 energy on the leggings, also including some very effective mods for different builds. Stalker armor looks very rigid and formal, each piece adding an extra 20 armor wile feeding, and the body armor reduce bleeding degen by 1. Destroyer armor is made for the Transformation Vampire, adding damage absorption of 2 wile transformed, it looks like a draping cloak and pants or gown made of loose flaps of cloth. The Incubus/Succubus armor would look particularly seductive, with very tight cloths that enhances their attractive features, muscles on men, you know what on women, this armor has an extra 10 AL vs attacks from enemies of the opposite gender, and the body armor increases the casting time of hexes targeting the Stalker by 1 second (because their attraction distracts people universally?). The Dark Mage armor would have a very unique look, the armor would be more colorful than the others, with a flashy embroidery, higher energy of course.

The most unique and enjoyable part of the Vampires armor would be the head gear, which would actually be a cape. This cape would override any guild cape you have, it would still have your guilds emblem on it, but it would look different. This cape is a full cloak, the seducers cloak would wrap over the shoulders with an opening in the front, and have a hood. The Stalkers Cloak would have a slight point in the shoulders, and a tall pointed collar, it would cover the front of the shoulders with a wide parallel opening in the front. The Destroyers Cloak would be thrown over the shoulders so it doesn’t cover the front. The Dark Mages Cloak would be 2 separate flaps laying on both shoulders, connected in the back down to the waste, but flowing to the ground on the sides. All of the cloaks flow all the way to the ground. If your wearing the cape you can choose to hide it like any normal “head gear” and instead your cape would show, hide your cape as well you see nothing. If you hide your cape but not your Cloak you will not see the emblem on your cloak, unless your in PvP. Basically, as long as you wear the Cloak “headgear”, it replaces your cape, and the only thing left of the cape is the emblem which will be added to your Cloak. The basic look I’m going for is Dracula in Castlevania, and the vampire Myer from Vampire Hunter D BloodLust. Hopefully there would be enough vampire armors for players to emulate whichever look they desired (within reason).

This class serves as a close range “trapper” and anti class, most of his skills have melee or short range, so he has to get close to you, but because of the potency of his techniques, it would be most effective to run, thus the title Stalker may be appropriate. Each attribute is focal on countering a type of attacker, Hexes and certain gender, heavy damage and melee, fire and ice damage, and damaging attacks in general. The idea is to make a class which is alternate to shutdown counter, instead of countering the enemy with shutdowns, it counters the enemy by punishing them for making an attack.

I will continue with some examples if anyone needs more elaboration on the classes skill types and functions, but they are not perfectly balanced figures, just guidelines for a kind of attack. And when I get some time I will also add my ideas on attack, blood attacks, spell casting, and feeding looks, or how the character may look wile using these skills. No stupid buffy vampire faces when they feed, soooo lame.

[Nevin]

Over all you’ve created a very original profession, although I do disagree with a few things and have some questions. First, is he a melee/caster? Such versatility would be fresh in Guild Wars and fully support it. But I find it a bit harsh to only have the profession available in this Chapter, I read the majority of the story mind you. Will it at least be available in PvP? Also I think a demonic/winged/horned figure would fit the transformation line better, even though that would be rather generic.

[BahamutKaiser]

It can only be made in this Chapter, just like Assassin and Ritualist. When the chapter comes out there will obviously be some new event that allows people to enter and leave Forbidden Continent, it will be a new class which is previously undiscovered because of the barriers that were in place, but just like Canthans, after the chapter comes out they will be a new class you can take with you.

I went with the mixed "beast" transformation because he is basicly a monster, this can be used by just about any demihuman and still be logically benificial. Demonic would definetly describe this creature, and it could have some cool looking horns, but wings and flight are a whole other set of capabilities, and I don't want to push them that far.

I was thinking about some fast movement, floating type movement stances which would be available in the Vampirism Attribute, and perhaps that the class itself float over the ground instead of walk, like in light steps which hover momentarily, and if they use a speed increase skill they would fly over the ground altogether, but that is only in look, not some special capability.

What I was going to say about the Vampires casting motions is that they float over the ground a little, and their cape flairs out as if a a wind is lifting them (not out of control winds though). They cast with their left hand, raising their fist in front of them, than flinging their open hand out toward the enemy. Necromancers float off the ground wile they cast their dark magics, but they twist around in agony, a Vampire is literally casting from the bowls of power within, and makes motions as if it is easy, wile his capes flashing about makes it look like he is summoning the fires of hell.... Oh wait, he is, "Frozen Fire".

[Nevin]

It can only be made in this Chapter, just like Assassin and Ritualist. When the chapter comes out there will obviously be some new event that allows people to enter and leave Forbidden Continent, it will be a new class which is previously undiscovered because of the barriers that were in place, but just like Canthans, after the chapter comes out they will be a new class you can take with you.

I went with the mixed "beast" transformation because he is basicly a monster, this can be used by just about any demihuman and still be logically benificial. Demonic would definetly describe this creature, and it could have some cool looking horns, but wings and flight are a whole other set of capabilities, and I don't want to push them that far.

I was thinking about some fast movement, floating type movement stances which would be available in the Vampirism Attribute, and perhaps that the class itself float over the ground instead of walk, like in light steps which hover momentarily, and if they use a speed increase skill they would fly over the ground altogether, but that is only in look, not some special capability.

What I was going to say about the Vampires casting motions is that they float over the ground a little, and their cape flairs out as if a a wind is lifting them (not out of control winds though). They cast with their left hand, raising their fist in front of them, than flinging their open hand out toward the enemy. Necromancers float off the ground wile they cast their dark magics, but they twist around in agony, a Vampire is literally casting from the bowls of power within, and makes motions as if it is easy, wile his capes flashing about makes it look like he is summoning the fires of hell.... Oh wait, he is, "Frozen Fire".

I never knew that the Assassin and Ritualist could only be created in Chapter 2. I thought once you bought Chapter 2 you could create them in Chapter 3, Chapter 4, Chapter 5, etc etc etc.

[BahamutKaiser]

We woln't know if they will allow you to make them in other chapters, but it requires a certain chapter to make Assassin and Ritualist. Either way, Vampires should only be made in the continent that they are from, they could be made in other chapters if they wanted to (as if they are going to make this class...), but the story line that I wrote pretty much seals vampires in Forlusha. Although, after you beat the chapter it may break the seal on Forlusha, allowing Vampires to spread..... which might be a bad thing?

I realy don't know how all that will work, but I know you can't make Vampires in Prophecies, we can't even make Assassins in Prophecies, and unless they carry over content for classes which are exclusive to a certian chapter in every chapter, then we woln't be able to make exclusive classes anywhere we want... Vampires or otherwise.

[Rikimaru]

You said someting about a "Vampir" in there, I think you meant Dhampir.
And it's a really well thought out class, obviously you've put more time into it than most people would even consider, lol. But unless you read the story, the attributes don't seem to fit together as a single class, and if they added this class they'd have a hard time summarizing that information into the little box by the class when you're choosing one for a new character.
Each attribute functions both with a completely different means and a completely different goal.

[BahamutKaiser]

Well the Attributes underscore the many different powers vampires are known to have, I actually messed up on the Frozen Fire bit, it was ment to be more of a weather effect which functions alot like a binding rituals effect, I may alter it.

It may seem like randomly thrown together attributes, but anyone who really thinks about a vampire knows these are steriotypical powers of a vampire, seductive powers, transformation into beasts and animals, unnatural magics and of course they feed on blood and could reasonably do special things with their blood. I didn't however do a good job of designing the attack types for these attributes, I ment for them to be more counter based, that way they are used to mount powerful counters against certain attacks, but I ended up making it quite offensive, expecially the transformation and Frozen Fire attributes.

I will probably revise it soon, I kind of rushed it because I had spent so much time writing the story rather than coming up with the idea, and even forgot the focal reason for some of the powers and their intended uses.

[BahamutKaiser]

I revised the concept a bit and totaly redid the frozen fire attribute, it is now an Elemental defense and Barrier skill oriented attribute.

[Verlas Ho'Esta]

Very nice. Very original, and well thought out. I'd definitely like to see this in chapter three (along with Rikimaru's Hollow class, BrotherGilburt's Raider class, and arcanemacabre's Feral class).

[Rikimaru]

That'd be kind of cool if they had a barrier skill that trapped you and everyone else in it's radius in a giant jagged block of ice, making it so that no one in it can move or attack, but they can't be targeted, and if someone targets the ice and uses fire damage on it it goes away.
It could be maintained and drop your energy regen to 0.
The problem with that though is that it completely goes against the concept of Frozen Flames. It just sounds cool...

Is the idea behind the Vampirism skills that you clamp on to the person and start feeding off of them? That sounds like a pretty cool skill, latching on to someone and having your health/energy go up as there's goes down.

[BahamutKaiser]

Well the idea for some of these skills would be great to carry over for other classes, barriers in specific would make great new skill types for Elementist.

I don't think putting a large group stuck in a block of ice is quite appropriate, I could see an Elementist using a Blizzard "Barrier" skill which does cold damage over time and slows enemies with ice hex for 1 second on each hit, but freezing them all in place is pretty powerful. The feeding skills freeze an enemy in place, leaving just one person immobile (besides himself), that alone is quite powerful, which is why the feeder can still get hit and the enemy can't, they just screw their own teammate if the enemy starts attacking the feeder.

Anyhow, the idea of a barrier is a mix between Ritualist binding spirits and Elementist DoT spells. Barriers would have defensive and offensive capabilities particularly pertaining to elemental damage, but because it immobilizes yourself wile maintaining instead of making an immobile spirit, it is granted better radius of effect and lower cost, which would be a neccesity for a low energy class.

This class serves as a very good melee range attacker, and a very good secondary for casters, being able to hold an enemy "hostage", is a great way for a caster to keep from getting squashed on the front line, and maintaining a barrier is a good way for Casters to hold their ground wile casting other spells. Because Barriers take away your mobility and your attack ability, it is alot easier to justify some effective numbers on this kind of skill.

[lightblade]

Um...we already had that...and they're very annoying to deal with...

it's called a touch ranger!

[Kijik Oni Hanryuu]

lightblade,not cool, bahamyut thought this very well out and you should not be downsizing his work! ANyways I love the idea, my only problem would be the armor, 75-80 is not too bad but +40 ZOMG thats a good 110-120 they would be the new thing in tankin.

[Lets Get to Healing]

Do some of the hexes affect different genders? Because of so this may cause imbalance issuses.

[Verlas Ho'Esta]

lightblade,not cool, bahamyut thought this very well out and you should not be downsizing his work! ANyways I love the idea, my only problem would be the armor, 75-80 is not too bad but +40 ZOMG thats a good 110-120 they would be the new thing in tankin.

So? My warrior has 120 armor now, before factoring in skills, shouts, and spells. What's your point?

[Numa Pompilius]

No, I fricking HATE vampires!

*No* ninjas, *no* pirates, *no* vampires!

/unsigned!

[TheSonofDarwin]

No, I fricking HATE vampires!

*No* ninjas, *no* pirates, *no* vampires!

/unsigned!

Well, the community has already created an essence of ninja and pirate in the game (annoyingly, might I add).

Well thought out idea, truly. As long as they made it fit appropriately, I don't see why it wouldn't be a nice addition. I tend to enjoy vampire-esque ideas, but when it comes down to actually implementing it almost every other game has fallen far short of acceptable. I would be interested in seeing how they would manipulate this idea, for sure.

[Rikimaru]

I'm going to add that Hostage idea to my Gunslinger concept, just for the hell of it. :D

[M C H A M M E R]

Lmfao @ Seduction -_-

[Alcazanar]

great job kid you just suggested A/N
NEXT!

[BahamutKaiser]

OH, so an A/N can hold enemies hostage, create a new form of AoE Barrier for offensive and defensive purposes, or work as a heavily armored melee unit? Gee, I didn't know that, thanks for informing ME.

Lack of perspective isn't a legitimate disaaproval, this class has more then a few original abilities, perhaps too many, if that were the argument I might heed warning, only to say I hope they could fit it all in one class without being imbalanced.

And listening to someone call me kid, relaying that he is old? Perhaps this underscores the creativity and enhanced perspective of youth vs the narrow and stubborn mindset of the elderly. I happen to be 22, and this idea is more than original, but thanks for insulting yourself.

Neither an Assassin nor a Necro can capture enemy units wile feeding on them, neither of them can obtain a reasonable amount of defense to club on the front line, Necros restrictive AoE capabilities (Wells which require corpses) are far dissimular from Barriers (which require the mobility and attack of the caster).

Under your broad implecations, Necromancer should not have hexes, because Mesmer revolves around hexes, Necromancer should only have corpse raising and manipulation and lifestealing. Fortunatly many of our classes are versatile, incorperating simular elements in alternate ways, creating new classes to enjoy the game with, none of which are any more dissimular to my Stalker class.

Thank You, come again.

As for some of the issues brought up by our less offensive members, the armor a warrior has is somewhere from 80-90 AL, including buffs like damage reduction, or energy, but most commonly an extra 20 vs physical. If you add another 16 armor in the use of a shield, you get a "possible" maximum of 96+20 vs physical, or 106, and Warrior can add absorption runes. The added armor on a Stalkers armor only kicks in wile he is feeding, and since taking damage wile feeding kills the victim faster than the feeder, it actually insulates the victim from getting wiped out easily.....

The fact that this class also utilizes a dual hand weapon like Assassin means that in order to use Stalkers "Vampirism" attribute to increase feeding, which will inclusively improve his melee weapon and attack skills, he will not be able to use a shield for added defense. If a Vampire character tries to put points in tactics to use a shield, he will also end up using a single handed weapon, and his attack damage would be rather weak if he is already pooring points into Vampirism and Tactics and Forbidden Power.

A stalkers primary defensive strength would be Transformation, and since it is a easy secondary to incoperate into other classes, it can help other classes with offense and defense in melee. Compared to using Tactics from Warrior, you only get a defensive boost in the use of a shield, and skills which realy arn't enough for a weaker class to make the front line. With Stalker as a secondary, along with transformation, you can use transformation to gain some added melee damage and defense with the use of a skill..... at the cost of your casting efficiency.

But still, I intend to redo the armor strengths, this class should have adrenaline as part of its skill costs, but it may require an extra bar of energy regeneration to function reasonably with his casting capabilities, unless adrenaline is an acceptable cost source for seduction and frozen fire skills. I think it is more important that this class have adrenaline capabilities, because we are now limited to Warrior for adrenaline use, which is a realy poor secondary choice for casters and most others. I think we need more classes which can utilized more versatile adrenaline skills, which would be effective for ranged, or give them more insentive to get into melee.

(Edit) I went ahead and changed up the Incubus and Succubus armor to be less defensive vs damage and more defensive vs hexes. And I reduced the Feeding triggered armor on Stalker armor wile adding reduced degen from bleeding (making bleeding less determental to the Stalker as a trigger for his blood cost attacks).

[Kijik Oni Hanryuu]

ty tyvm I dont want the poor ickle tanks to be out of a job :-P and I think ot would have been fine to have the forty bonuis if the natural armor was caster armor. I think this weay mainly due to the fact that the Stalker, being able to use spells and such could easily demolish anything with such high armor plus spiking. See, the usual trade off is dies quick but kills/heals quick(caster) or dies slow but doesn't spike well at all(tank). So that's just my backing. Verlas I was fairly misleading in what I meant I am sorry I had meant the too much armor in the different fashion as I just described. Bahamut good job tho, keep spitting out cool classes like this and I am sure anet will use ATLEAST one of em. better than a class diea like (class idea name here):umm he kills stuff by shooting them....HE IS TEH 1337Z0R5 HE HAXXOR5 YOU WIT TEH UBER 1337I5M 5H007ING SKI115!!!!

[Verlas Ho'Esta]

I've been mulling it over for a day or so, and I've become a little worried about the gender-dependent spells in the seduction skill line. Now, we all know mature people will see this as a flavorful and appropriate option, and children won't really care as they're mostly too young to notice. But then you run into the problem of over-sensitive, immature adults who get offended way too easily. You know some idiot is going to scream bloody murder about equality or some other nonsense.

[BahamutKaiser]

I think the cloths available to women do alot more to offend "sensative" people than "seductive" techniques, I didn't suggest anything like "pelvic thrust" skill mind you. Sensative people shouldn't be playing a killing, monsters and witchcraft game anyways, that is literally what it is.

If they are going to scream bloody murder, they would have done it as soon as they saw the trailer for Factions, where Shiro kills the emperor, and that ritualist that got fraged was rather brutal too, this is a mature game, and they had to change the rating already, having some seduction skills in a class along side the already seductive appearal available is hardly a sin.

I appreciate the recognition guys, I usually spend 90% of the time beating down idiots, fortunately I have been executing them regularly since I got here, and there are less and less of them doding around. It may just be that vampires are so widely popular that people catch onto them, but that is all fine with me.

I agree with some of what was said by.....one of you guys, that making a vampire class should be done well, not half ass or weak. I think that is where they laxed with assassin, they tried to limit his special abilities too much and the one thing that makes assassin fun to play (teleporting) is barely available enough to enjoy. If they make something like Vampire, or even like my Dragon idea, they need to make it worthy of the title, these kinds of characters are the highest archtypes of fan appreciation, they shouldn't be underscored.

I actually find it kind of funny how Anet seems to build up classes in their characters in the trailers, yet you end up with a shadow of what you were impressed by in actual play. Devona with 2 swords in the trailer, single sword in the game, and Devona has a Hammer instead, Assassin doing a fantastic teleport into a death move on Shiro, and we barely get to use them in actuality, I hope they don't continue with these trailer build ups and gameplay letdowns.

[Alcazanar]

stalker -> assassin vampire -> necromancer

anyways i´think youre wasting your time kiddo
they have said that gender shouldnt affect you charactor
in any way, and that defensive barrier and all that junk
i dont think anet or whoever it is wants to program all
that HONESTLY, and stop flaming me by the way

[Numa Pompilius]

Well, the community has already created an essence of ninja and pirate in the game (annoyingly, might I add).Then I will sign ONLY if we're talking about a vampireninjapirate! With eyepatch, pegleg, parrot, black loose-fitting dress, poisoned shuriken, and pointy ears & teeth and allergy to sunlight. And it must incessantly say things like "Arrr, matey, we be superior beings to the cattle, because we know the way of ninjutsu!".

THEN I'll sign.

[CartmanPT]

and stop flaming me by the way

Please look at your other post.....

great job kid you just suggested A/N
NEXT!

The next can be one of your threads in sardelac...... closed ...... crap.....closed.......

Nice work at flamming others when you dont seem to be able to have an ideia with more than 3 lines.

Back on topic, i like the idea, its seems a little hard to me to make a lot of skills with that attributes, but i think that would be a nice idea to make the gender have other effect than just looks

[KvanCetre]

Seduction seems almost useless, especially in PvE :\

[Alcazanar]

Seduction seems almost useless, especially in PvE :\

thats my point!
how do you seduce a skeleton? :S
and those Aatxe are they male?

[Kijik Oni Hanryuu]

Seduction will be semi to useless on some enemies, just like certain types of damage on certain enemies is reduced and like stone enemies are immune to poison, besides he has three other skill lines.

[Alcazanar]

final post...

go ahead and post your idea to anet
but i dont think they will use it.
Okay you worked hard to get some class
but i seriously dont think anyone wants
to do the programming of barriers and
holding enemies, and the sedduction
thing is just insulting

[Liu]

Gender specific hexes?

...

Why do some people not realise why that can NOT EVER BE DONE. EVER?

Also, Vampires ARE too much like necromancers, Vampiric Bite? Vampiric Touch? Order of the vampire? Vampiric gaze? It is difficult but you must think up something completely new. I mean who saw ritualists or assassins coming?
Exactly...

EDIT!!!

I've also just noticed that this will spawn neverending hurr hurr jokes about seduction, and the class overall. Private dances for money and other pathetic things.

[BahamutKaiser]

This is the part where I am glad to have a working history of success in the face of ignorant denial.

If you take the time to read, I already addressed your perspective Liu, and I don't need to add anything, but since you spent more time writing a reply then reading the first part of the concept I will outine the issue of simular classes and class titles compared to skill titles.

The name for the class could most classically be called Vampire, but from the start it automatically mirrors Necromancers vampiric skills in the Blood Attribute. Because of the comparison, another name may be better, but the way Necromancer utilizes blood magic in a life stealing manner in comparison to this Vampires physical “assaults” which not only siphon life from their enemy, but immobilize them, are quite different, this I will explain further as the more unique feature of this class. Some other titles which would fit the class would be Stalker, Forsaken (by the gods), or some kind of Vampire hybrid title like a Vampir or the like. The other title which would well suit the class could be something like Incubus or Succubus, but it would have to be one title for male and female, and unless there is ambiguous title for male and female seduction demons, this wouldn’t work, although it would be a great set of armor.

Vampire may be too similar to Necromancers blood magics to be considered as a class, I know. But since classes like Ritualist, which use the spirits of the dead instead of the corpses of the dead, share a name with some of the skills a necromancer has, and moreover, are known as necromancers in the White Mantle army, as well as serve Grenth, since Ritualist is so similar to necromancer, I don’t feel an actual vampire class is uncalled for. Vampires are yet unknown, leaving the origin of such titles like Vampiric Bite miscellaneous. If Vampire isn’t going to be a class, it should at least be an enemy.

And the usual argument, a vampire can be made putting this or that class together like Ranger/Necro, will always come up. Wile ranger can use necromancers life stealing skills well, this Vampiric classes skills will be about as similar to necromancers blood magics as Ritualist Spirits are to Elementist Wards.

To begin with, the class name is Stalker, it is basicly a way around calling it vampire, with the exact same pretense, but if it "can not" be called vampire, Stalker is just as good, you can see that on the header of the window if you take 5 seconds to look. I didn't try to hide the true identity of the class either, so don't even bother saying so, it is also in the title, as I have already said, Vampire and Vampiric skills are just descriptions for skills on other classes, just like Vampiric weapon, a ritualist skill, this is very simular to Blood Ritual, a Necromancer skill, which doesn't make ritualist an unacceptable title. To be more specific, White Mantle Necromancers are called "White Mantle Ritualist".

Trying to limit new class identities based on any association, skill, monster, or simular, will only remove nearly every decent title from being a new class. There are hundreds, if not thousands of pretenses throuought the game, if you eliminate every title that has anything to do with an exsisting classes skills titles or NPC names, you basicly have to use another language to come up with something totaly unrelated. Can we not have a class called Defender because there are skills with defender in it? Can we not have a class called Protector because there are skills which have Protect in them? We have a ritualist even though there are a few necromancer skills with ritual in the title....... making a class called Stalker, or Vampire, even though we have necromancer skills that have "Vampiric" and "Vampire" in them is exactly the same.

Who saw Assassin coming?, me of course.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10656
Please note that I wrote when I bought the game, about a month after it's release, proving my logical insight on truely obvious developements, these things may be beyond you, but I'm not you thankfully, and assuming others are as limited as you is.... I'll save you the harsh language for now.

I actually wrote another thread detailing 2 class ideas which had a shapeshifter called a shamen, one of his attributes was Rituals, perhaps too dissimular to compare, but.... Yeah it didn't hit me out of the blue. This just proves that I see further then you, since it hit you out of the blue.

That is all Liu...

As I have been suggesting class ideas before "leet" like you even recognized that there would be new classes, and surprizingly enough recognized the best and most likely class at that, and many of my suggestions were actually represented in the class we now call Assassin, in the oriental based chapter that didn't fit "their" perspective of GW MO. Why, because I have much insight to share.

First of all, these skills types use systems which are already in the game, you can already immobilize a person with Knockdown, all they have to do is alter an exsisting function so it doesn't serve as an interrupt, nor disable actions, but keeps them from moving for a set period of time. I don't even have to justify barriers, it is just a new way to provide a localized DoT effect, it simply has a different requirement than a binding ritual or DoT spell, and it would also have new effects.

I am sorry I didn't finish introducing seduction, I had already designed a functional plan for alternating hexes, but forgot to add it. The hex has a listed effect on enemies of the opposite gender, for any other creature, be it the same gender, even if it is another species, seduction, like pheromones, can still cause a reaction. The hex would have an alternate generic effect of less potency, on enemies of an unspecified gender, unless the creature is without gender, like a rock golem, making it invulnerable, no different than any flesh oriented condition. Quite simply, there is an easy remedy for the problem, and if you had insight you could recognize that, but your resistance reguardless, so it doesn't matter what you think, because baseless resistance is irrational.

A new class needs a new gameplay technique, trying to oust a class idea because it has a required new gameplay feature is like trying to find a new class in a class combination, a new class requires something that cannot be provided by another class, or it does just fits into your original statement "A/N".

Your arguments are bullshit, no dancing around it, first you try to disapprove of my idea because you didn't recognize Stalkers unique capabilities, and call it a hybrid of current classes, then when I Axe your ignorant reply, you try and disapprove of its unique capabilities. You basicly disproved your own possition, that isn't even a perspective, it is blaitent offense without legitimate cause. I owe no respect to a flaigrantly slanderous writer who cannot recognize nor respect other peoples work, you don't have any justified disapprovals. Disrespect where Disrespect is due as I say, pandering to social acceptance and courtesy to someone who deserves to be humiliated only breeds more ignorance.

As I often say in most of my class suggestions, if you can't recognize my concept or find something that doesn't add up, ask me how it could and would work, and I will be glad to explain it to you. Most of the time the explaination is already there and you overlooked it. Coming in here and proving your ignorance about the subject, than continuing to disapprove in opposition to you own, previous, disapprovals, is not only ignorance, but immaturity. The only acceptable response to being proven wrong is an apology, followed by more diligent recognition, the fact that you return to slander some more after already being corrected just proves how childish you are.

So who is a "Kid"? I will not listen to another ounce of ignorance nor immaturity from such an childish writer, Since this is your "last post", it may not matter that that I cannot read any more of your trash, but since I doubt you are mature enough to keep your word, I will add you to the ignore list anyway. You can't find a problem with this class because it is functional, it may have open ends but there is nothing broken about it, and it is plenty original enough, and even more popular. But feel free to insult yourself further if you wish.

Now that that buisiness is through, completely, I will try to be more civil. I will try to take some time tomorrow to elaborate on Seduction hexes, as well I have yet to add a key skill which allows Vampire to reduce DP he incures when he dies, and self ressurecting skills in Vampirism and "No Attribute".

P.S, if the moderators feel the need to edit or remove this post because of its intensity, then feel free remove the slander Alcazanar calls a reply.

[Kijik Oni Hanryuu]

All I can say is, QFT to everything Bahamut says, you ahve earned my respect Bahamut, few have I seen that leave no holes in their statements, QFT

[BahamutKaiser]

I intended to suggest some skills which reduce DP and allowed the Stalker to prempt death, but I'm not sure if it is too powerful or if a primarily attacking unit should have this, but it is fitting to the class and as a self cast only skill it isn't the greatest thing in the world.

Anyway, this is what I had in mind.

Immortality (Elite Enchantment), 5 energy, 1/2 cast, 30 recast. Gain Immortality for 20 seconds, if you die will Immortal, you will return to life after 10 seconds with 50% health and 0 energy, and your DP is reduced by 1-12% (Forbidden Power).

Blood of Rosha (Elite Skill), 5 adrenaline, 1 cast, 60 recast. For 10-30 seconds, if you die wile bleeding, you return to life after 5 seconds with 100% health and 0 energy, and bleed for 10 seconds, and throw blades of blood at all enemies at your location dealing +10-25 damage. This skill causes bleeding for 10 seconds (Vampirism).

Unnatural Persistence (Enchantment), 4 adrenaline, 1/4 cast, 30 recast. Gain Unnatural Persistence for 5 seconds, if you die wile under this enchantment, you return to life after 10 seconds with 50% health and 0 energy, and suffer weakness for 20 seconds. (Forbidden Power).

Peaceful Slumber (Skill), 10 energy, 1 cast, 60 recast. For the next 30 seconds, if you die you suffer from no death penalty. (No Attribute)

I could write more, but you get the point. I don't know if these are too powerful, but we already have skills like Divine Intervention which heal you if you take fatal damage, coming back to life after dying is basicly just a delayed Divine Intervention, except you die, often suffer DP, and may lose a match before you self ressurect if nobody else on your team is alive..... I don't realy think it is overpowered, it's only key strength is that you can provide your own resurrection, but on the flip side, you can't keep anyone else alive.

I particularly like the one which does an attack on enemies after you return to life, and all of these would mix well with a necromancers Death Nova capability. Most of the time you would rather wish to bring skills which keep your teammates alive rather than support their deaths, but if you know they are dying on purpose.... it is rather benificial. Dealth Nova and Corpse Explosion support from a Secromancer wile your Stalker intentionally throws away all his life with health cost skills then cast Blood of Rosha to bleed himself to death, and Peaceful Slumber to negate the DP is a powerful combo, Nova upon death, Explosion with corpse, and about 4 seconds later you come back to life and hit anyone still there for +10-20 damage.

It may also be nice if you could use DP restoring or countering moves on your teammates...... And these don't need to be exclusive to Stalker, It would make alot of sense if Ritualist, Monk, and maybe even necromancer had simular skills.

[TheOneMephisto]

Nice idea, but these skills might be able to be exploited for EoE bombs and the such. For instance, 7 necros sac themselves with sig of agonay and other skills, and use blood of Rosha. Then they sac again, and the R/Mo or whatever uses light of dwayna. Or you could even find out a way to do 5 EoE bombs in a row with LoD, the 2 rit area reses, and blood of Rosha. Great idea, but maybe make the minimum res time like 10-15 sec.

[BahamutKaiser]

This is true, but you can also rez people and let them die with Vengance, which will incure no further DP and can also be removed on purpose with skills which remove all your enchantments.

It could be exploited by EoE, but it could also be a counter for EoE, as long as one member of you team is alive, you can send in self resurrecting melee and other attack units. EoE isn't healing them either, and if your characters self rez than they can move right back into battle without sending in another victim to bring them back to life. It actualy serves as a better counter to EoE than a tool.

On a related note, they should probably make a few spirit counters, like Wards and Wells which protect against any damage or damage bonus from enemy spirits, something along those lines. Although good use of some ritualists spirits may very well be enough to defeat EoE.

EoE is an exploitable move in general, the fact that abilities can be used to exploit these are not reasons to avoid them, no more than we need to remove Sac and self damaging skills.

If Blood of Rosha tolk 10 seconds to trigger, than there is no way in hell it would trigger in time to catch anyone, it will be easy to escape the effect even with snares at 5 seconds, the delay cannot be longer.

Dying is always a risky tactic, returning to life in 5 or 10 seconds leaves plenty of room for you team to die and lose anyway, and takes you out of the battle for a significant period of time. The fact that these skills can serve greater purpose in combination is a natural advantage, not having this advantage is unbalanced, it needs them. Death, Dp, skill cost, a free corpse which may be used by either side, and time spend completely neutral, all add into the cost of this skill, the fact that it can be used together with other techniques is a naturally balancing part of the equation. And since it works in advantage to either side suffering from EoE bombing, it isn't unbalanced even slightly.

[Inspiration]

congrats! you've made a cultist!! ;)

[Poison Ivy]

I thought Necromancer wasn't wasn't removed yet?

[Kijik Oni Hanryuu]

Iswear some people areso dang closed minded-.- bet yall are the same people that say "ZOMG the assassin is teh ripoff of teh warriore!!!!111!!one!1"

[chaos warrior zane]

For The Firking Asswholes Who Have Flamed Him.. Have U Read His Story?!?!?!?! 2 Words..............pure Genious!

[Tongloid Tarthwood]

This is my class idea, for what is typically known as a Vampire. A vampire usually has roots and origins in mythos and historical events, like Christianity, and Dracula.

Whoa! Slow down there. Christianity isn't a myth. Vampires aren't mentioned in the bible. Dracula isn't an historical event. Oh I see. You swap them around...Wait. That still doesn't work. Dracula isn't a myth either. It's a novel. For it to be a myth it has to not have a known author.

Asside from these minor mistakes, I really like the class idea. All I would really like to know is, what is it's target. You know, like mesmers are best against eles, and monks best against necros...That sort of thing. Who is it's target. I think it should be warriors. Warriors need to be targeted and I think this is he thing to beat it.

[NeHoMaR]

I like Vampires. Anyway, Necromancers already have the Blood skills, is not easy make an all new Bloodline skills, but YES, is possible. Dervish has Earth and Air skills very different to Elementalists.

Dervish and Paragon are "angelical" classes, next chapter they must add the "devil" ones; Vampires, Werewolfs, Demons. We need more devil classes, not only the Necromancer. Well, Assassin is devil too.

[BahamutKaiser]

I ment to say Mythos around Dracula, he was a real person, but he wasn't a real vampire, and the Mythos surrounding vampires and their relation to Christianity.

Personally, I find the whole concept of Vampires weakness to christian artifacts pathetic. The Bible makes no mention of Vampires or their significance, thus their very exsistance would nearly be a contridiction to the bible, so how can Vampires be weak to Christian artifacts if their very exsistance controdicts Christianities volidity? Things like this are the reason I perfer Vampiric stories with original plots and origins which don't involve inaccurate interactions between Vampires and Christianity.

As for the classes target, I like to believe that any good class has skills to counter any build, classes can be set up different ways with different skills to overcome nearly any other class. I do believe there is a semi circle of power in class setup, but with new classes coming all the time, they are more like conjointed rings. For instance, Mesmer is good at countering and interrupting enemies of any sort, whether it be any caster or any attacker. Elementist is good at overcoming groups, by dealing high damage on entire groups making it difficult to compensate (with healing), or Deal continuous spiking to a target to make it difficult at best too keep just that single target alive.

This is my idea of the original circle. Necromancer > Ranger because Necro has curses which are effective on more than one target, can slow their already slow attack, and because Ranger is the only other class who can bring an extra body to the field which will become fodder for Necromancers Death and Soul Reaping. Ranger > Elementist, because he can deal damage at full range, has extreme armor vs elemental damage, and has interrupts good enough to interrupt elementist very slow spells. Elementist is really the weakest in terms of superiority over any single class, but the most likely is Warrior, because he can nearly immobilize him wile bombarding him from perfect safety. Warrior > Mesmer, although mesmer has plenty of counters for everything because it is a counter class, interrupts go mostly unused against melee skills, and warrior can still fight well even if his energy is removed. Mesmer can easily beat Warrior if he is equip with certain hexes, but they are often geared toward casters, and a Warrior has plenty of extra skill slots to counter hexes if he is focusing on Mesmers, he definetly doesn't need to worry as much about defense. Mesmer is definetly > Monk, healing skills are fast, and no normal interrupter will catch a 1/4 or 1/2 cast spell. But Mesmer can slow down casting speed, punish casters for spamming spells, interrupt their spells, and attack their energy, Mesmer has skills to counter better than other classes because he lacks most anything else, but he is nearly required to counter good monk. Monk is simply > Necro, with skills geared toward overcoming Necromancer curses, Double damage vs undead creatures on Fire and Smiting damage skills, and the general ability to prevent deaths which overturns Necromancers talent to exploit it. As I said, any good class will have skills to counter most if not all other classes, there is one skill option or another, but this is my example of which ones are better in general vs eachother.

Now where does Stalker fit? Well if we look at Assassin as a guideline (and I will confess that I am dissapointed with Assassin), they deal Melee damage along with debuff/disabling skills simular to Mesmer and Necromancer. Assassin is in my opinion 50% Warrior, 20% Mesmer, 10% Necro and 20% Original. Their melee attack is different because energy based skills can be used immediately, and in quick succession, which is why they implemented the combo system to make it more difficult to spam your attacks. It lacks defense and instead has (not enough) shadowsteping (related to necro) and a variety of hexs (like Mesmer and Necro).

With my Stalker idea, we have basicly a Reverse Mesmer. Most of Mesmers skills revolve around disabling, interrupting, and depleating energy or adrenaline to prevent the enemy from doing damage, they have only a few skills which are crafted to punish a specific target for executing certain actions. Instead Stalker is geared toward overcoming the ability of an enemy, If he is good at hexing, the Stalker manipulates the hexer, if the enemy is good at attacking, the Stalker can morph and trade away casting capabilities for indominable physical power, if the Stalker is being hounded by spell attacks (particularly elemental) than he can setup wide area effects which weaken elemental damage and punish any enemies casting in the area, if the enemy is great at escaping, the enemy can capture them and hold them down til his team can overcome the target, and with that same ability, if the enemy can spike you to death in an instant, the Stalker can hold the life of an enemy hostage in order to create collateral damage on the enemy if they try to kill him.

If we examine the new expansion proffesions what we will see is that we have a new kind of melee attacker, a new kind of support and location based offense/defense, a new ranged attack and group supporter, and a new group damager. What we lack is a new type of counter class (Stalker). Although Ritualist technically revolves around summoning units to defend an area, we are somewhat lacking a good Familiar class which can bring a creature aboard to fight, like a bonified Summoner type class, but with Ranger, Necromancer, and Ritualist all bringing familiars to the table, I think that is a concern for chapter 5. In actuallity, a good way to invent a new kind of Pet class to the game without overflowing the summoning (multiple Minion) department would be a Mount Riding class, with a Mount which is simular to a pet rather than summoning Nature Rituals, Binding Rituals or several Minions, you have an alternative to Beast Mastery, that includes a riden "pet" and grants defensive capabilities rather than offensive addition. This is also probably the next most significant class missing from the game, an alternative Tank class. We are still lacking a good armored frontlinesmen alternative for Warrior, and personally, I would like to see something that is made to go in first and takes reduced damage from melee based on a mount skill.

[skylyn]

Nice idea and all. But I'm tired of see'n toucher builds & this will only encourage an expansion of that build......

[BahamutKaiser]

This class doesn't use touch spells, it uses a unique version of touch immobility. Seeing as the only real "toucher" build in the game is a hybrid class, there really isn't a "toucher" class in the game. Although most of the mechanics are melee attacks and spells.

I would have to say this isn't a "toucher" class, it is a "Grabber" class, they are just more peverted than Rangers pretending to be vampiric :P

OK, all funnyness aside, the actual feeding skills don't deal alot of "touch" damage, they deal primarily immobility with some health degeneration/regeneration effects, and life stealing damage counter. The actual Damage delt during a Feeding is DoT, meaning they cannot spam 3 spells in 2 seconds, but lose all function to Feed small amounts per second.

In actuallity, the Feeding concept is an incredibly unique alteration to any touch attack, with a primary focus on immobility, and a very different approach and threat. DoT is nothing on one enemy, and the traded defense against any allied spiking means that this cannot be stacked with any other attacks aside from previously applied hexes and condition. As such, a very unique role which remotely closest comparison is a hybrid of a few of one classes skills use by another class is more than original, and far from repeatative. It is about like comparing Ranged attacks with Projectile spells, except more difference.

Your poorly associated dislike of touch builds has almost nothing to do with this class, and as such, your disapproval is invalid.

Final point, these are Feeding skills, you can't use touch spell wile feeding, and no one on your team can do anything to your target wile feeding. 0 spiking, 0 touch spells, and incredibly original makes this more than acceptable, even on your scale. So perhaps you should spend more time thinking about how it actually works instead of making poor associations.

[lyra_song]

Your poorly associated dislike of touch builds has almost nothing to do with this class, and as such, your disapproval is invalid.


Everyone's entitled to their disapproval ;P This is the internet afterall.

You're gonna have to agree that just the title alone is gonna draw comparisons to the touch ranger build.

[BahamutKaiser]

You can dissaprove anything you want. "I hereby dissapprove of Milk!"

But it doesn't matter if you dissapprove, no matter how much you don't like milk, some people do, and unless there is something wrong with milk for those who would like it, than they should have milk no matter how much you dislike it.

Now if you said you didn't like cigarette smoke, and even though you didn't choose to use it, it was hazardous for you if others used it around you, than it would be a valid dissapproval, because their use is harming you.

Likewise, you don't have to like the idea, there are plenty of people who do. And no matter how much you don't like it, if some people like it, and it works, and it is original, it is good enough for the game, and your dissaproval isn't significant.

Even worse than that, if you dissaprove of something for a reason that does not apply to said something, than your dissaproval is invalid. This is because your dissaproving of something that isn't involved with the subject, your just misassociating it.

That is just like saying all Muslems should be executed because you think extremist should be killed. Not all Muslems are extremists, thus they should not be killed, and just because you want to kill all extremist doesn't mean you want to kill all Muslems, you just haven't recognized the difference. Which is exactly what my response was too, an invalid and undeveloped dissaproval.

Several good class ideas have been compared to a Ranger with some secondary. Assassin and Paragon are prime examples of how you can use simular mechanics and still have a totaly original class, and Ritualist is a perfect example of how you can use a title which is the same as certain skills and even enemy titles used by another class. Char Rangers are called Stalkers!, Oh my god, we can't have that, anymore than we can't have Ritualist because Necromancer has Blood Ritual skills and White Mantle Necromancers are called Ritualists!. Pointless issue.

Go rent "Thank You for Smoking". and Learn something about debate.

[lyra_song]

I think you need to clarify your post a little.

Bullet Points REALLY help people who only skim and dont read the whole thing.

Short, concise sentences.

Personally i like this idea, i just dont know how such a class would look like. Your writing is good, but you need to cut the fat.

Like your response to mine, it didnt need to be that long ;)

[BahamutKaiser]

Im not interested in what lazy people think. Lazy people are going to find fabricate dislikes no matter how much or little I write on the topic. Dilegent, Intelegent, Mature people will recognize the idea and appreciate it even if they don't like it for its stability and developement. And I just hope those are the kind of professionals working at Anet.

[Shikaoru]

i would rather have a more rogue like stalker from ro: http://iro.ragnarokonline.com/game/jobstalker.asp
BTW i'm Back but not for long i play hacked ros now much more fun for me but i will come back someday.... maybe when nightfall comes

[IrishCatholicNewYorker]

sounds cool in NF i've been seeing floggers i think that wold be a cool class you could use like whips and stuff

[viskey]

i liked the idea of seduction, but wouldn't they just be like necros???

[BahamutKaiser]

Would you read the OP again Viskey. I don't care to badger people for overlooking the concept, but if you recognize the abilities and gameplay involved in playing a Stalker, you wouldn't have a single relation between Necromancer and Stalker outside of nomial simularities.

[General of the blade]

i think it's a nice idea

[Pwny Ride]

We have necros for this.

[BahamutKaiser]

You can't read can you Pwny? Necros can't Capture units, Transform into other creatures, Create Environmental Barriers, nor manipulate and punish foes for hexing..... or Self Ressurect. Not a single capability here is more than remotely related to Necromancer, and this class involves twice as many original techniques as any other class, but.... you can't read.

Yes I mean you, if you assume that this is anything like necro, you are a moron, just check yourself off as a moron if you did. Perhaps reading an idea may give you a real perspective of the concept next time. At least mature yet lazy people have the intellegence to ask how it is different than a necro (even though it is already detailed), instead of making ignorant claims that it is a necro.

[Pwny Ride]

You can't read can you Pwny? Necros can't Capture units, Transform into other creatures, Create Environmental Barriers, nor manipulate and punish foes for hexing..... or Self Ressurect. Not a single capability here is more than remotely related to Necromancer, and this class involves twice as many original techniques as any other class, but.... you can't read.

Yes I mean you, if you assume that this is anything like necro, you are a moron, just check yourself off as a moron if you did. Perhaps reading an idea may give you a real perspective of the concept next time. At least mature yet lazy people have the intellegence to ask how it is different than a necro (even though it is already detailed), instead of making ignorant claims that it is a necro.

Sorry to res this thread buut ~

Its just limited to a Necromancer.
Enviromental Barriers...hmm ever heard of wards?

You called it a VAMPIRE, and from what i recall necromancers are THE vampiric class, period.

Punishing foes for hexing...hmm oh yea, Smite Hex but you would'nt have possibly ever thought of that. But wait, im a MORON so what would i know :)

[BahamutKaiser]

Yes you are a moron, If a new kind of AoE effect is broken than Binding Rituals are not acceptable because they provide environemental effects, and they also repeat use of spirits. Beyond that, Necromancers use Rituals, and are even know as ritualists.

a few simular capabilities are common among any new profession, and pretending the that some redeveloped abilities is the only thing this class has is ignorant. Your a moron, as I already said, there are a number of things this class can do that necromancer can not, and you were wrong, bringing up a few abilities simular to other classes doesn't make it a necro either, or an elementist or monk.

The new form of imparament and hostage taking is totaly original, and transformation abilities are more than original enough. But if we are elminating every remotely simular aspect because it is shared by another class than we can only have one energy user, one adrenaline user, and necromancer can't have curses because it rips off Mesmer.

Gee, you know who else can punish a foe for hexing? Mesmer, guess monk can't have Smite hex, because mesmer has Shatter Hex.

Simple fact is, this idea is more original than the vast majoirity of ideas no matter how far fetched and unusual their names are, and your a invalid so I woln't be reading any more of your ignorance. There are plenty of totaly new and redeveloped features about this class, and since you never bothered to read anything but the response, your an idiot.

[General of the blade]

think you a little to deep in it, you got a necro and a vampire. vampire can suck blood, and necros suck hp, vampires have funny cloths so do necros...
the only why someone is gonna buy into this vampire idea is if you merge it with the necromancers.

Yes you are a moron, your an idiot.

and their is no need for this ^ if you want to prove your point insults get you right were you started.

~this has been a GOTB lesson :D

[System_Crush]

@Pwny Ride and other people that bring up really really old threads
I suppurt thread necromancy when you un-dead a thread with a posetive comment/suggestion.
If all you have to say is "It's a neco", why say it?
Just let it drop off the 4th page of the forum, it must have been close anyways...

In that part BK may be right that you are a <random word of profanity>.

Yes I know by posting this I am bumping the thread, and thusly not practicing what I preach, but as saying this will have the same effect as spamming "Stop Spamming!!11!eleven" I guess GW has a large croud of people that would act exactly the same way :p

[[M]agna_[C]arta]

Ooohhh, Better name for "Frozen Fire" why not "Blue Fire" or "Ice Flame"^^.

[uberpwnage]

I came. I saw. I read.

The whole thing that needs to be changed is the Seduction line. Not because of it being offensive or anything. But because of the fact that it's abusable.

If you make hexes that work on a gender-specific basis, you'd better... well... not do that at all. Why?

Arena Net never wanted to truly promote your character being created perfectly with perfect weapons and whatnot type of elitism. But that's what this would do. It would cause unbelievable gender discrimination. One week, it'd be "GLF girlz" because the vast majority is male. The next week, EVERYONE will have made female characters to replace their males since males are so popular, so it'd go to "GLF boyz".

Come on. We don't want this. Plus, some of the problems have been addressed in this thread already; for instance, how do you seduce an aatxe?

Another thing is the obvious too-much-like-necromancer bit. Think about it this way: Almost all new classes are similar to a class combination from before. I.E. Ritualist is N/Mo, Dervish is W/Mo, Paragon is also some kind of crazy W/Mo, and Assassins are probably... W/R?

We let Ritualist slide even though it's close to necromancer. One necromancer look-alike is enough. Besides, women already have "seductive" enough armor. Have you seen female 15k bonelace?

Ultimately, it's a good idea; if you can somehow squeeze out a few of the very close necromancer ties, that is.

Until then, "OMG N/R WANABE LOL"

[Sven788]

This isn't WoW, I don't like it.

[BahamutKaiser]

The seduction magics involve a alternating effects, if the perfered gender for the spell isn't fulfilled for the spell, it defects to a generic alternate effect which is simularly usefull and effective.

I think it is significantly enriching because most of the time people attack enemy foes based on class significance and enemy stability. By adding a gender oriented feature it creates opportunities to capitolize on gender vulnerability. Perhaps this seems unorthodox, but the same situations exsist with having a different race as a character like Zhed. Because supposedly Disease only spreads to like creatures, and if you had a party full of different species, disease wouldn't spread through your team.

Whether that is acceptable or not is debatable, it could work, but I could also change it. I'm don't promote same sex seduction or homosexual themes, but seduction magic could be developed to work on any foe......... and just be developed with original features.

And yeah, fools will always assume something is covered by another class without reading the idea, but beside the fact that the identity is a vampire, there is absolutely nothing related to necromancer at all. Necromancer has several vampiric skills, they don't work remotely simular to Stalker skills, and they arn't the only vampiric features in the game. The appearance is vastly different, Necromancers look like corpse brides and liches, Stalkers look like ecentric nobility and mystic figures.

Assuming that Necromancer is the only resource for Vampiric abilities is like saying that nobody but elementist can use fire magic, well fire magic is covered by Elementist, Dervish can't use any elemental magic......... and we can remove deadly swarm too. I really have no sympathy for nomial stigmatism.

When you can explain to me how a necromancer can pull of any single ability stalker offers or how any armor offered to necromancer is going to appear even remotely like the Stalkers I've designed, I might actually redevelope the idea to working standards. But I already did so much work that this idea is beyond so many ignroant and bias claims...........

I appreciate that you read the idea, proof that someone who actually knows what the idea is can't really disapprove. I challenge you to try something further. Imagine using this character in the game and how the features would operate wile playing, than tell me again how much it matters that someone beforehand thought it was a necromancer, just like all the people who had nothing to say about Assassin being a W/R after it was available.

[-Pluto-]

A few problems I see with this class:

1. Seduction is just bad. In pvp, it causes one gender to be better than another, depending on which one is most prevalent. If more female characters are being played, people will have to bring male Stalkers. Having to take this factor in to consideration when creating a character would simply irritate me. I simply don't think the idea would be fun at all.

Keep gender cosmetic please. Focusing on the hex manipulation and the defensive support skills is fine, just please none of this opposite gender crap.

2. Vampirism attribute seems broken for pvp. People are going to use it as a snare, but unlike Shadow Prison, ice hexes, or Cripple, you can't remove it. The only thing you can do is use a stance canceling skill, and other than all the dervishes running wild blow, these are not commonly used. If they don't have a stance canceling ability, the stalker can just snare the flag runner in gvg or the relic runner in HA virtually forever.

In fact, it being a stance makes it even more imbalanced than just being hard to remove. Stances have instant cast times, which makes them uninteruptable. At least with Water Eles, you can use holy veil to remove the snare or a ranger with savage and distracting shots to interupt the snare.

KD ending the effect helps. They are more common than stance breaking skills. Most are conditional or expensive though, and still don't do much to help balance the feeding mechanic.

[BahamutKaiser]

Actually, stance breaking and knockdown are available to a vast majority of the classes in the game. Their popularity is understated because of a lack in neccessity, if neccessary, Assassins, Warriors, and Paragons could break the stance readily with their skills, and Warrior, Elementist, Assassin, Monk, Mesmer and even Ritualist have knockdown skills. And whats more, there are also Knockdown counters effective to defend against Feeding as well, making the wealth of defensive options more than extremely prevalent to meet the task.

As if Knockdown skills arn't bread and butter features of PvP which are used regularly and profusely, they are certainly common enough to meet the threat of a Feeder.

In comparison to a knockdown, a foe can be Disabled completely, immobilized and incure additional knockdown triggered damage wile being vulnerable to enemy attack in general for 2-4 seconds, including melee and distance application.

In a Feeding situation it requires melee, like all melee capabilities it doesn't require a casting time because it already cost the difficulty of approaching your foe, and touch spells actually work as you foe moves away from you, they only require you to touch your foe to start the spell. Feeding last from 5 to 10 seconds, but doesn't disable many of the foes skills, also immobilizes the feeder, and prevents allies from attacking the foe. It has better immobility, less disability, and no spike application.

There are plenty of opportunities to combat this feature, and as if features like shouts and chants are being covered properly by counters, this one already has dozens, literally dozens of counters already available in the game.

It is a superbly balanced equation which you will realize if you study it a little better, a very powerful feature with very prevalent weaknesses, beside that, additional features can be added to exsisting and its partner class to combat the abilities available to the Stalker. The increased significance of stance breaking techniques is only an improvement, making obscure counters more common and balacing exsisting options.

The seduction attribute, it offers abilities to impare foes of opposite and same sex, it just does it in different ways. Heads the foe attacks 50% slower, Tails the foe Misses 50% more, read the idea a little closer until you fully understand it. Situational weakness is less relavent than AoE effectiveness, it would be plenty effective, but the effects may not be intended.

[-Pluto-]

There are only three attacks that end stances. That's it. Just three. Wild Blow, Wild throw, and Wild Strike. I've seen wild throw on some paragons, and I've seen wild blow on dervishes. They're not too commonly seen, nor do I think people should be forced to have to bring them to counter an overly powerful mechanic.

Knockdowns are usually conditional. Right now, the only Knockdown skill I'd consider myself guaranteed to see in GvG is bull's strike. It's a nice KD skill, but it's useless to combat feeding. The only options I see for KDing a guy feeding is Hammer warriors (who are going to be spending a lot of adrenaline AND are going to be hurting their ally a lot to do it), shock (probably on a warrior), or gale. Gale isn't run as much as it used to be.

5-10 seconds just says I was right. That's too long, espcially if you chain a couple of them together. Unless they have a high recharge time too, a Feeder could single-handedly stop their runner from capping, probably with only two skills, indefinately. If the other team doesn't have a hammer warrior to camp you the whole game (the brought a dragon slash and an eviscerate warrior instead), they're not going to do much about it.

The way to balance it would be to make the feeder vulnerable. If he gets to bold with his feeding, you should be able to just spike him down. Killing someone can counter anything, but +armor and transfering damage to the ally makes killing him during his feeding nearly impossible. Get rid of the damage transfer and make the feeding armor just a normal inscription of +10 armor while feeding. That would make it still very very good for mitigating damage from overextending warriors, but not quite as broken.

The seduction attribute, it offers abilities to impare foes of opposite and same sex, it just does it in different ways. Heads the foe attacks 50% slower, Tails the foe Misses 50% more, read the idea a little closer until you fully understand it. Situational weakness is less relavent than AoE effectiveness, it would be plenty effective, but the effects may not be intended.
Are you implying that 50% missing = 50% slower? Slowing attack caps at 50% while % chance to miss stacks with other blinding effects as well as chance to block. I'd prefer chance to miss over 50% slower almost any day, particularily when I'm running a necro with faintheartedness anyway in most hex builds.

The point is, as long as you give different effects to different genders, one will always be preferable, and the other will be weaker. Therefor, depending on what people are playing, one gender will be better than the other. I do not think this should happen, nor do I think it will. Gender has always been intended to be merely cosmetic in GW. It has never been and never should be a part of game mechanics.

[BahamutKaiser]

Your obviously too new to understand how real balance works, so I'm not going to bother explaining it to you after this. You may as well say that Shouts are too strong because nobody runs Vocal Minority. As long as the counter exsists it is not overpowered, the commonplaceness of a skill is based on need, and if there is a need than it is used more, the fact that it isn't used often because there isn't a need says 2 things, there should be real reasons to bring it to balance the game, and it is a players build option, not a weakness.

Now if the issue was something like Vocal Minority isn't frequent enough to truely shutdown shout builds than we would have a significant issue, but that isn't the kind of issue we have with feeding. The counters are plenty available and that is all that is neccessary.

Now I am really done listening to a newb try to tell me how it would work, your not a fraction as experienced as me, so when you get some sense you can start asking me how it works instead of assuming you know better.

[Aeon_Xin]

how do you seduce an aatxe?



VERY carefully!!!!!!!!!









(at a quick glance no one else posted, I just HAD to)

/unsigned btw, atleast in it's current form. needs all unique abilities, Necro has blood magic and cold damage shut down pretty tight.
In addition, any sort of fan fiction tends to make me throw up a little in my mouth.
Sure, you've got your .5% success stories, the rest are rubbish, no offense to OP, didn't even read.

[-Pluto-]

Shouts aren't as powerful as imobolizing a character for 5-10 seconds. You usually don't even need to counter shouts with vocal because they just aren't as gamebreaking. If you don't have stance breakers or unconditional knockdowns to use on the Feeder every 10 seconds or so, you are going to lose.

Water snares can do similar things, but you always use hex removal, interupts, KDs, or you can pressure him so he has to kite instead of camping your runner to keep your runner clean (or get killed). Feeders? 3 stance skills, KDs, that's it. Again, because damage is going to go to your runner if you try to pressure the feeder, that's not an option.

And if the existence of counters are enough, then why was the SF/Glowing combo nerfed when you can just bring frigid armor? Why were paragon shouts nerfed anyway awhile back if we could have all just brough vocal minority?

Nice to see you're using my post count as an arguement now though. Never mind the fact that I've been playing this game just as long as you have. Resorting to calling me a newb and refusing to adress an arguement does little to strengthen your position.

[BahamutKaiser]

2 skills arn't a general counter to a skill type, they are a particular counter to a single condition.

If you faced a foe with SS and BackFire your team would surely lose, unless you brang hex removal. Stance breaking, and even moreso, feed breaking is universal enough to be available if neccessary, it isn't a feature available to one class, it is available to nearly every class.

If I said hexes were to powerful because nobody used hex removal would that be a valid argument? No, there is plenty of hex removal in the game, whether or not people accept it as a significant part of their build is completely up to them. Likewise, Feeding has plenty of counters, and it is no more obscure than hex removal.

And my experience has nothing to do with posting, it is based on my accomplishement as a writer and proving innumberable times that I know what is possible and others don't, I will bring the shinobi thread up again if you doubt me.

[Soul of the Scythe]

Please stop referencing that damn shinobi thread. You predicted that the guys who helped design Diablo 2, would put an assasin into the game. Now there's a longshot. You say it like they took your idea word for word. Please tell me one idea that they took from you? I saw you suggesting that the shinobi would have great defensive techniques and well, we all that the assasin has those, right? You suggested that they would "melt" and reappear behind the guy, I suppose you think that they saw that and decided to call it shadow stepping, They had that in D2, or maybe the dual attack, D2 as well, or maybe it was the blocking with dual weapons, D2 yet again.

So stop using an "idea" you had like a year and a half ago to defend your ideas now. Chances are the creators had the idea for the assasin and the ritualist long before you ever posted that, and probably before prophecies even came out.

As for this Stalker(Vampire) idea, cool idea, I'll give you that. Does sound a lot like an amped up Touch Ranger. I like this idea better than your Dragon at least... and your Shinobi idea(despite my flaming of it) would have been better, albeit more confusing and harder to implement, than the Assasin we have. A concern I have is an obvious one, and it is that fact that since he is undead or demon, either way, the undead and demons are enemies so having a group or so of them who decide to help humans doesn't really fit. Not to mention, humans wouldn't accept help from Vampires(or Stalkers as you call them) for the simple reason that they are undead. It could be implemented, but it would be a stretch. I like the feeding idea but in order to balance it out, it would take a lot of work and involve a lot of conditional effects and ways to stop it. I wouldn't mind seeing this idea implemented in GW2(You can be a Charr so why not Undead or Demon?) but in the Guild Wars it wouldn't work because pretty much the whole game(save for maybe factions) your fighting undead and demons and to have one on your side is unbelieveable.

Again, good idea, just not for this Guild Wars atm, maybe Guild Wars 2.

[lyra_song]

*snicker*

This thread is hilarious. Give it up. BK is so in love with his idea he isn't budging on any opinions expect positive ones.

His superior brain makes him know the future, hence all our arguments are invalided.

(yes invalided is not a word)

[sister]

sounds like a war necro to me