Axe Sword?

[wankey]

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

Sword 12 is better than axe 12 but axe 16 is better than sword 16. Am I right?

[Riken Chrono]

wrong.

[Fluffyx]

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

Sword 12 is better than axe 12 but axe 16 is better than sword 16. Am I right?
Axe damage output is less stable than a Sword obviously. A higher axe mastery of course will lead to greater damage than a sword at the same level.
I'm pretty sure an axe mastery level equal to the sword mastery the axe will always have a higher output. I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere on this site is listed the damage per minute done by every weapon in the game, I will try to find it for you.


http://www.guildwarsguru.com/calculators/guru_speed.php?p=Calculators&c=Speed&min=8.1&max=37.8&time=1.33&crit=20

(this should be it with the axe set in for you, you can change it to sword when you want to compare)

[Riotact]

max dmg for a sword is 15-22
max dmg for an axe is 6-28
that means that u can do more dmg in 1 hit with an axe. but an axe can do less dmg with 1 hit also. sword dmg is more consistant. but thats not the only thing to take into account when deciding. check out the skills too.

i personally use an axe, try both and see what u prefer.

[Zui]

Here's some math to put it in perspective:

The baseline for pressure in this discussion is a warrior who does nothing other than autoattack a caster. With an unmodded max weapon and 16 attribute, he'll dish out the following amounts of damage:

Sword: 34.12 damage per hit, 25.59 damage per second, 1536 damage per minute; 38.39 damage per second, 2303 damage per minute while under Frenzy
Axe: 35.55 damage per hit, 26.66 damage per second, 1600 damage per minute; 40 damage per second, 2400 damage per minute while under Frenzy
Hammer: 51.36 damage per hit, 29.35 damage per second, 1761 damage per minute; 44.02 damage per second, 2641 damage per minute while under Frenzy

[Don Zardeone]

Who cares about base DPS?
The real damage comes from skills anyway

right?

Look at the skills and pick what you like best.

[Helll is for Heroes]

axe does more damage, eviscerate is also a much better elite than any sword elite imo.

[Jestah]

Eviscerate is better for adrenal spiking but since factions sword definatly has some nice new skills. With For Great Justice and Dragon Slash you can maintain full permanent adreneline for 20 seconds and even without FGJ Slash still helps a lot with building adreneline. Axe is still probably superior for PvP because of the spiking potential of Eviscerate but sword is vasty superior for general pressure and PvE in my opinion.

[jummeth]

16 axe is probably better than 16 SM, since the increased crit rate means the pressure damage is better.

Evis+exe is the standard adreno spike for Axe (NB: elite usage)
sever+gash+final is standard adreno sword spike (NB: no elite usage)

The second spike is about 2 seconds long, while the first is 1 second.

Evis+exe =~ 300 (=100(evis)+100(DW)+100(exe))
sever/gash/final =~ 300 ( = 20(sever) + 60 (gash) + 100(DW) + 120 (FT))

however you lose all adren from sword, and FT takes 2 more strikes of adren and 1 more skill. However, its elite free. Its all about what your other requirements are.

[Jestah]

Sword has a higer *basic* DPS than Axe. Like Jummeth said it's the crits that give it that slight edge on *effective* DPS. Crits are always based on your weapons max damage so I think you can see why axe is superior with a higher crit rate.

[SteadyHand]

I know you guys will..lol

This is what I found from Guild wiki:

On average, the highest level axe will do 12.8 damage per second (17 damage per hit), while its sword counterpart would do 13.9 dps (18.5 dph) and the hammer would do 16.3dps (27dph). It is therefore best to invest heavily in Axe Mastery to increase the likelihood of a critical hit and make use of the axe's high end damage. Based on the critical hit research, a max damage axe will produce more average damage per hit than a max damage sword at weapon mastery 11 or higher.

Which of the two weapons has a greater likelihood to land a crit blow?
Is that info available?

Two possible hits per weapon:
Axe
1) 6 Hps 2) 28 hps: Possible avg hit is 17hps
Sword
1) 15 Hps 2) 22 Hps: Possible avg hit is 18.5 Hps

Sword >Axe

[Niosisw]

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

Sword 12 is better than axe 12 but axe 16 is better than sword 16. Am I right?

PvP? = Axe

PvE? = Sword


When I use eviscerate in PvE I feel like I just lost a first born, even with FGJ/frenzy/berserker.

Bleeding + deep wound > any axe spike in PVE, but PvP, swords are generally p00p.


*I realize gash has an 7 adrenaline req and evisc has an 8, but that extra one seems to kill me, especially considering it's my elite.

[Taurus]

Sword ALWAYS does less damage than axe or hammer, the only sword skill thats even close of doing a decent damage is final thrust wich is conditional ( target being below 50% health ) and takes 10 adrenaline to use it.

[wankey]

How are you guys getting 100dmg from eviscerate? Usualyl I get 50 - 85 max dmg on a 60armor.

so its more like 85 (max) + 100 fd + 50 executioners axe = 235dmg.

[Celab]

DPS wise i prefer hammers, but their skills and lack of sheild make them unusable, or not as useful in some situations, than a axe or a sword. EG with a axe you can use cyclone axe to farm and gain \hp from live vicarously and vigorous spirit, you can do this with a sword (hundred blades) and crude swing, but a. it isnt a elite, b. its fast recharge so spammable., c. It hits ALL oppoments adjacet to you, not infront of you.
But then hammers can be useful as a W/E farming a single boss, being able to knockdown and keep them knocked down. This can be utilised in PvP aswell

[Taurus]

You have to compare critical hits wankey.

With 1 strength, a 15^50 max axe, and 16 axe mastery Im getting 106 damage. That with deep wound would be like 106 + 20% of a health around 455 would be almost 200 damage in 1 single hit, and that can be followed by executioner's strike wich would be 106 in another critical.

With final thrust a sword can do 136 damage in 1 hit with 1 str, 16 sword and a 15^50% max sword. Even with swords having a faster attack spped, the difference between a sword spike and a axe spike is around 60 damage. For me enough reason to keep using swords only in PvE and when I'm playing a GvG utility elite non-attack skill in my warrior.

[Sarevok Thordin]

It's all a matter of your playstyle

Hammers = slow and hard. Bonus = Knockdown + Dwarven Battle Stance
Sword = fast and consistant damage. Bonus = Conditions + Ripose
Axe = Fast but wide range of damage. Bonus = Spike, and disrupting chop if you think this is good.

Just at a glance.

I use axes mostly, but I'm thinking of making another helm for swords.

[jummeth]

I know you guys will..lol

This is what I found from Guild wiki:

On average, the highest level axe will do 12.8 damage per second (17 damage per hit), while its sword counterpart would do 13.9 dps (18.5 dph) and the hammer would do 16.3dps (27dph). It is therefore best to invest heavily in Axe Mastery to increase the likelihood of a critical hit and make use of the axe's high end damage. Based on the critical hit research, a max damage axe will produce more average damage per hit than a max damage sword at weapon mastery 11 or higher.

Which of the two weapons has a greater likelihood to land a crit blow?
Is that info available?

Two possible hits per weapon:
Axe
1) 6 Hps 2) 28 hps: Possible avg hit is 17hps
Sword
1) 15 Hps 2) 22 Hps: Possible avg hit is 18.5 Hps

Sword >Axe However, I pointed out already that DPS is actually negligible. Skills are why a warrior is scary.

The second thing is, in PvP many people tend to run away from you. A lot of the time people turn their back (very foolish) and direct hits to the back == 100%crit.

Axe's adreno spike in 2 hits does the same (if not more damage) than the swords adreno spike. Which means that the spike is 1 second after at pushing out all the damage. To balance this, I also mentioned that swords do not need a sword elite to be effective.

Axe and Hammer builds are naked w/o their elites. Hammers can only be described as heavy pressure, since the attack speed is very low. Its sometimes seen as a spike since the pressure's damage is very high, however, its main strength is because its got a KD chain, which means if this pressure was on a monk, they have no chance to heal themselves. However, it is very easy for another monk to heal the KDed player.


@ Sarevok: Do people actually use Dwarven Battle Stance?! =S I'd loath to give up Devi or BackBreaker.

I do have to disagree against your pros and cons: imho

Hammers: KD + heavy pressure, slow to build adren.
Swords: Does NOT NEED elite, and still be very effective, adren skills cheaper.
Axes: High crit and a scary non-conditional spike.

[Jestah]

Why do people always say sword doesn't *need* an elite. That's just a cliche from the times when sword had no usable elites. Sure, you don't *need* to do anything but sword is no less in need of an elite than axe is, it just happens that axe has a very good one. Although it's no longer true with factions anyway.

2 skills (sever/gash) with no damage bonus just to apply a deep wound is far from an efficient spike and in a split situation probably won't even leave the target with below 50% for the FT.

Btw this thread has nothing to do with elementary observations on what each is good for, it's about raw DPS. Judging from the OPs interest in fairly in-depth stats I think he can figure the simple stuff out for himself.

I'm not sure how sword and axe compare with 12 mastery because the damage caluclator here is always based on 16 mastery but you will hardly ever be running less than 15/16 mastery anyway if your main interest is damage. At 16 mastery, axe is definately superior in terms of DPS and Eviscerate is unmatchable for spiking.

[jummeth]

Have you tried using an axe in PvP and still remain effective without an Axe elite? The fact that you can spike on a sword w/o an elite almost as well as that on an axe is the meaning.

[Jestah]

Eviscerate, Executioner's, Furious = 120 + Deep Wound
Sever, Gash, Final = 84 + Deep Wound (assuming you get 50% bonus)

40 less damage is bad enough plus the fact that when you're in a team of 4 there's no chance you can spike with Final Thrust, you just won't be able to get the target to 50% in a timeframe that you could actually consider a spike.

[Aisius]

For me, I prefer axe for most pve.

Damage is really not my main reason, skill choices is.

I only have the factions game atm, but axe allows me to have triple chop or cleave which add some damage and give me that initial aggro I need to tank.

Swords are usuefull too and I have another set of sentinels gear I use for swords but compare the two : triple chop and hundred blades and axe is a better choice for me to tank pve melee stuff.

[waiver]

For most farming: Axe > Sword

IMO cyclone axe is the ultimate farming skill. Take 6 monsters:

Axe hits from 6-28 plus mastery and strength. cyclone adds 22 (at my current mastery). That makes about 60 dmg to anything by me.

Sword hits 8-22 plus strength and mastery. I can make ONE bleed for 5 seconds. That's about it.

60 dmg to all monsters by me > Making ONE bleed for 5 seconds.

[fb2000]

I'm judging whether to go axe or sword.

do both. ull get what is more effective in which situation

i run all 3 weapons on the Lady, they all are fun enough :)

[Legendary Shiz]

To me, it all depends on what you want to do. The only reason I'm an axe war over a sword warrior, is because I have cleave capped, and because I DON'T have hundred blades caped. And unless I can cap that, there really isn't any point in switching over. But, IMO a sword tank build is much, MUCH better than an axe tank build. Riptose and deadly riptose are very nice skills to have as a tank.

[Jestah]

Waiver there's more to the game than farming and even so you're dead wrong. The 2 Riposte skills and Hundred Blades are just as good if not better than cyclone for that purpose. Just because every whammo around uses sever doesn't mean it's the only sword skill there is.

[jummeth]

The Grenith's Footprint soloer is a sword build. Repostes are very powerful.

I still cannot replace Eviserate for my axe elite, its just too good.

[Racthoh]

Even with swords having a faster attack spped

Sword and axe have the same attack rate.

Eviscerate, Executioner's, Furious = 120 + Deep Wound
Sever, Gash, Final = 84 + Deep Wound (assuming you get 50% bonus)

Gash = +21 damage at 16 sword, Final Thrust is +43 (86 under 50%) for 107 damage spike. You could factor in the bleeding damage over time during the adrenaline gaining process for FT but that'll just get cleaned up by Heal Parties, removed from Extinguish, etc... In a 4v4 setting, you'd be foolish to leave the bleeding on there; it's just begging to be hit by the Gash + Final.

Swords can't spike, that's probably why they have Dragon Slash to just pump out the pressure with adrenaline skills. Quivering Blade is also fun, a more reliable way to bring a target under 50% than bleeding and pressure from your normal swings. The problem is a warrior who can't inflict a deep wound isn't really much of a warrior (in a pvp setting, in PvE who cares?), and if you're carrying a sword Sever/Gash has to appear on your bar.

[jummeth]

Sever, Gash, Final is pretty much death if the opponent is about 60% hp.

You have to factor in the crits and actual sword damage aswell.

[thesecondrei]

I don't know why people say sword is better than axe for pve...imo cyclone axe +triple chop is an amazing combo for pve.

[eternal pho]

axe does more damage, eviscerate is also a much better elite than any sword elite imo.


Whata bout quivering blade? (+40damage/ 4adren,)


sever+gash+quivering ftw:)

[General Typhus]

Whata bout quivering blade? (+40damage/ 4adren,)


sever+gash+quivering ftw:)

Guardian, Aegis, Whirling, SoD, etc. GG.

[jummeth]

Guardian, Aegis, Whirling, SoD, etc. GG. In that sense... Warriors are useless? Hardly.

Sure a shorter spike means the ninja guardian is more difficult to cast but jeez.

You can go...

Migraine, Arc Conundrum, Backfire, Diversion, Surge, Burn, Weariness, E-lord, Blackout, GG... but whats the point in that?

[Jestah]

He's talking about the fact you get an 8 second daze and disabled if Quivering misses. Maybe ok for spiking but it sucks vs. the current GvG meta.

Btw sword still sucks, big time. The day I get spiked by sword is the day I rage quit the game.

[wilebill]

I use both sword and axe. In PvE, Triple Chop Axe Elite followed by Cyclone Axe does amazingly good damage. I think swords are better against single opponents who bleed.

[Aisius]

Who cares about base DPS?
The real damage comes from skills anyway

right?

Look at the skills and pick what you like best.

QFT!

Skills is why I run with axe and it all comes down to-

Distracting Blow v's Distracting chop

Look at the skills and whether your running high strength-mastery-tactics.

[ogami_ito]

I have tactics at 15. Deadly ripost owns sins and other warriors. I would like to get eviserate, but it takes a while to get over to cap it and many don't own prophesies. I would like to know what is the PvP option for factions-only toons.

BTW, how come people don't talk about Thrill of Victory? with 15 in Tactics, it does +40. and then you get +70something for deadly riposte, plus a powerfull healing sig.

[zeno]

I don't know why people say sword is better than axe for pve...imo cyclone axe +triple chop is an amazing combo for pve.

because For Great Justice + Dragon Slash + Sun Moon Slash is very, very hax in pve

[Munanko Roha]

Typhus, isn't Guardian/evading stances nastier against an 8 adren elite than against a 4 adren one?

I prefer an axe/hammer spike to a sword spike, but the weakness given by evading is the same for all of them, you can't count it as a factor when choosing your weapon.


@Ogami: ripostes are not going to work in pvp, at least not against any half-competent enemy. ;)

[ogami_ito]

Well. I play Fort Aspenwood for PvP...mainly becaue there is a reward I can turn into money and because its fun. Maybe most people there are not very good. But I have found that this one skill (Deadly Riposte) keeps me save from sins (who are silly enough to attack a hard shield warrior) and other warriors. So yeah, I guess they are not very good.

Anyway, back to the question...what do Faction warriors do for spike? Sever artery>Gash> Final thrust? It would seem that this is the only spike option for faction warriors who also want to use a shield.

[Jestah]

Typhus, isn't Guardian/evading stances nastier against an 8 adren elite than against a 4 adren one?

I prefer an axe/hammer spike to a sword spike, but the weakness given by evading is the same for all of them, you can't count it as a factor when choosing your weapon.

The 8 Adren ones don't have penalties for missing though. Like I said you could probably spike before someone gets off a ninja guardian but for general pressure (which is what the low adren cost is good for) it'd be much better to just use dragon slash. Dragon Slash effectively costs 3 Adreneline anyway unless it misses.

[Valkyries]

Really IMO it all depends on preference, if its PVP/PVE and what skills you like.

This is what it all really boils down to.

I love Axes and Swords, but it depends on what Im doing.

In PVP, I ALWAYS run an AXE. Always always always!! Why? Because in PVP Eviserate is the "cats meow"... there is nothing better. It deals the most dmg possible and it applies a very big deep wound. There is no sword skill that can compare to this.

HOWEVER,

That being said, if you REALLY wanted to run Sword in PVP you could use Quivering Blade > Server > Gash > Final Thrust.... Still, I'd take eviserate over all those any day.

Why no Dragon slash in PVP? Because if it misses your combo is toast and you have to rebuild your adrienline. Spike is then completely screwed.

In PVE though, it really doesn't matter at all. You don't need a deep wound, you just need to dish out some damage. So play with what you want. Got a nice fellblade you wanna show off? Go cap quivering blade and 2-3 sword attack skills and go. Be happy! :) I personally use both in PVE... I really like Apply Poison, Triple Chop and Cyclone Axe as a combo. It melts faces and has a really big degen at the same time. Still I sometimes switch it out to Quivering blade or Dragon Slash (superior for sure, but its later in the game before you cap it) and play with those.

So really its what you want. The overall DPS for Axe/Sword isnt going to be enough to worry about.... its all about the skillz baby!!

[Sarevok Thordin]

I used to be a big axe man in PvP, but recently swords have taken over.

Why? I'm a W/N :P

Quivering Blade just kicks ass in PvP, cheap, lots of damage, if you are fighting a monk with guardian you can really punish them with transferring Dazed to them.

Sun and Moon Slash is AWESOME when you have damage buffs such as Judge's Insight, Strength of Honor, Brutal Weapon and so on with you.

Factions has really opened the door for swords.

[shalako]

Have you tried using an axe in PvP and still remain effective without an Axe elite? The fact that you can spike on a sword w/o an elite almost as well as that on an axe is the meaning.

Who does pvp without an elite...

If you think that sever artery and gash are as good as eviscerate...well then good luck to you....

IMO ...Axe is superior to sword in most situations...you can give deep wound and weakness as well as cripple...+ big damage output...I started with sword but soon after changed out to axe...

Nothing against swords just don't see them as being as effective as axe in MOST situations... :)

[Valkyries]

I used to be a big axe man in PvP, but recently swords have taken over.

Why? I'm a W/N :P

Quivering Blade just kicks ass in PvP, cheap, lots of damage, if you are fighting a monk with guardian you can really punish them with transferring Dazed to them.

Sun and Moon Slash is AWESOME when you have damage buffs such as Judge's Insight, Strength of Honor, Brutal Weapon and so on with you.

Factions has really opened the door for swords.

I agree swords have its uses and Quivering Blade is by far the best Sword Elite for PVP.

still, that being said it still not where NEAR Eviserate...

Theres a reason why its called the "King"... Its by far the best elite you can use as a Warrior (maybe even best all around skill period when it comes to damage - of course can't compare Mesmer skills).

[krytas]

I used to be an sword warrior in PvE, but now I've switched to Axe. Why? When I be using drag slash/Final Thrust, it always took alot of hits in order for my spike to be a major thread. But with axe, I can charge up my Spike in about 6 hits and still not lose ALL my adrenaline, i can keep on spiking.