Ranger Basics [Archive] - Guild Wars Forums

Ensign

Apr 14, 2005, 12:10 AM

In an ongoing effort to make these forums as useful as possible, we've decided to re-vamp our profession guides and knowledge bases.

In addition to needed help with our profession overviews, we're looking to create a build FAQ in this forum for new users. This should outline the common builds in a class, what works, what doesn't, and generally just go over the material that everyone should know before diving into the forum proper. For this, we need your help.

As the title suggests, this thread is for the basics of the Ranger, and the various ways to play one. To flesh this out, we need generic Ranger builds of all types, as well as class specific questions about skill interactions. While I'm going to try and lay out a skeleton myself, any help fleshing out the content would be appreciated. So if you have a question about how the Ranger works, know of a common build that everyone should be familar with, or have any suggestions for our profession overviews, please post them here.

Barragebot
Ranger/Monk

Expertise 10, +3 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 11, +1 Rune
Beastmastery 3, +1 Rune
Smiting Prayers 7
Healing Prayers 7

Barrage
Penetrating Attack
Hunter's Shot
Debilitating Shot
Pin Down
Tiger's Fury
Judge's Insight
Restore Life

Shock Sniper
Ranger/Elementalist

Expertise 10, +3 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 11, +1 Rune
Beastmastery 1, +1 Rune
Air Magic 10

Penetrating Attack
Hunter's Shot
Punishing Shot
Pin Down
Read the Wind
Favorable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Conjure Lightning

Enchantment Hate
Ranger/Necromancer

Expertise 10 +3 Rune +1 Hat
Marksmanship 11 +1 Rune
Survival 8 +1 Rune
Beastmastery 3 +1 Rune
Curses 6

Melandru's Arrows
Debilitating Shot
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Tiger's Fury
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Rend Enchantments

Offensive Trapper
Ranger/Necromancer

Expertise 11, +3 Rune
Wilderness Survival 11, +1 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 8, +1 Rune
Curses 3

Oath Shot
Distracting Shot
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Healing Spring
Whirling Defense
Throw Dirt
Shadow of Fear

Aragorn is teh s3xah
Ranger/Warrior

Expertise 10, +3 Rune, +1 Hat
Swordsmanship 12
Tactics 8
Beastmastery 2

Hundred Blades
Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Hamstring
Tiger's Fury
Throw Dirt
Shields Up!
Watch Yourself!

Peace,
-CxE

Scaphism

Apr 14, 2005, 12:44 AM

Any ranger guide needs a link to the Expertise Guide (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content/expertise-costs-id1154.php) with an explanation of how expertise works. Currently it reduces the energy cost of the following types of skills by 4% per rank:
-Attack Skills
-Pet Attacks
-Stances
-Shouts
-Traps
-Preparations
-Glyphs

It has no effect on spells or signets.

Here is a trapper build I've had a lot of success with in PVE and had fun with in Tombs as well.

Oath Shot {E}
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot
Point Blank Shot
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent/Healing Spring
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap

Attributes were:
12+1 expertise
10+1+hat wildnerness survival
8+1 Marksmanship

General Strategy: Activate Whirling Defense as you run towards your enemies, giving you a 75% chance to block their attacks, also conveniently protecting you from most attacks that would interrupt you. Position yourself in the middle of a group, then drop a flame trap and barbed trap at their feet, the order doesn't particularly matter.
Fire point blank shot at the enemy you have targetted, followed by oath shot, recharging every skill on your bar. When you're up close to an enemy it will be nearly impossible for them to dodge your Oath Shot.
Drop another 2 traps and watch enemy health bars plummet with glee. Reactivate Whirling Defense as needed.

I love this build because it doesn't need any other profession to make it work.
Troll Unguent is generally better than Healing Spring if you're playing solo, because you can run away and it continues to heal you. I bring a lot of interrupts because it can be very difficult to kill bosses with self-healing without them.

PvP: You can easily drop an interrupt, healing, or your damaging shot to bring something from your secondary for more versatility, especially when your monks can handle the healing for you.

---------------------------------------------
Ranger/Warrior melee fighter

Expertise: 11+1+hat
Beastmastery: 3+1
Swordsmanship: 11
Tactics: 8

Skills:
Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Hamstring
Final Thrust
Hundred Blades {E}
Throw Dirt
Tiger's Fury
Bonetti's Defense

Just a duelist. It's your chance to look like Aragorn from LOTR™! You too can wear disheveled clothes with leaves in your hair, call yourself a ranger, yet use a sword!

BlackArrow

Apr 14, 2005, 01:52 AM

Here's a Ranger/Ele that might fit your conjure reqs.

Expertise 11, +1 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 10, +3 Rune
Beast Mastery 1, +1 Rune
Fire Magic 10

Glyph of Energy
Mark of Rodgort
Conjure Flame
Favorable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Precisoin Shot
Penetrating Shot
Hunter's Shot

Idea is to hex with Glyph and Mark then buff with Conjure, Favorable, and Tiger's fury. Then just cycle through the 3 attacks, casting Fury when needed.

Can be switched to Air for Glimmering Mark, Conjure Lightning and 1 non-elite skill of your choosing.

Davion

Apr 14, 2005, 02:37 AM

Ranger/Mesmer Solo PvE (can party good if chooses as well)

Expertise - 10 (+1)
Marksmanship - 10 (+1/ +1 mask)
Wilderness Survival - 5 (+2)
Inspiration - 10

Pre-Sear starter skills :

Energy Tap
Ether Feast
Read The Wind
Powershot
Dual Shot
Ignite Arrows
Charm Animal
comfort Animal / Phantasm (from illusion)

Post-Searing :

Hunter's Shot
Penetrating Attack
Read The Wind
Practiced Stance (elite)
Troll Ungeunt/ Healing Spring
Power Drain
Spirit of Failure/ Revive Animal (if no monk henchman)
Charm Animal

Flatbow/Short bow (personal preference)

Basic Strategy : In an attempt to keep yourself suitable for combat for lengthy periods of time, use Practiced Stance , Read the Wind, then alternate as needed/required between hunter's Shot, and Penetrating attack, throwing in a quick Power Drain, for an energy steal or Spirit of Failure for a similar steal against melee opponents. If you need a heal you have your preference of choice between Troll Ungeunt or Healing Spring.
There are no points in Beast mastery in this one but is run with a pet as a gimp target focus off of yourself.
This is a build I have been running in PvE quite successfully. Very rarely (2 times total) has this one failed me in explorations. :D
If coming upon instances where a party is needed requiring the use of henchmen, then I usually add a ranger, monk, and warrior to round out the 4 member party for missions. With the monk henchman(woman actually) providing the bulk of any extra healing required in detrimental situations.

A PvE Solo similar class Ranger/Monk might be a variation of this one to be included as well.

Xellos

Apr 14, 2005, 07:24 AM

Draken

Apr 14, 2005, 11:42 AM

Ranger/Warrior melee fighter

Expertise: 11+1+hat
Beastmastery: 3+1
Swordsmanship: 11
Tactics: 8

Skills:
Pure Strike
Savage Slash
Hamstring
Final Thrust
Hundred Blades {E}
Throw Dirt
Tiger's Fury
Bonetti's Defense

I personaly preffer Whatch Yourself! to Bonetti's Defense because "Bonetti's Defense ends if you use a skil". Since it will give you 100 vs physical and 120 vs elemental with the leather set. Which is crazy damage reduction for everything where as bonettie's only affects melee. Also Watch Yourself! helps the team.

Sausaletus Rex

Apr 14, 2005, 12:09 PM

Umm, can I assume that somehow the recent changes caused hunters shot/penetrating shot to be stronger then power shot overall? Hunters I can somewhat understand with the high efficiency rate, but I never understood how penetrating shot worked with the +5?/20% thing.

Hunter's is better than Power Shot because it does the same amount of damage with a chance to cause bleeding for an extra 6DPS with 1 second less recharge time and 5 less energy before you get to Expertise.

Penetrating is better because with 20%AP you're getting close to that amount of damage on a 60AL target (That's 12AL off for a base of 48AL which means you'll deal something like 12~15% more damage enough to put you right close to the +25 on Power Attack.) with 1 second less recharge and it gets better the more armor your target has. It's a closer case but Penetrating is superior depending on your targets and tactics. Not the best attack skill ever but solid enough to make the cut.

Scaphism

Apr 14, 2005, 05:14 PM

I personaly preffer Whatch Yourself! to Bonetti's Defense because "Bonetti's Defense ends if you use a skil". Since it will give you 100 vs physical and 120 vs elemental with the leather set. Which is crazy damage reduction for everything where as bonettie's only affects melee. Also Watch Yourself! helps the team.

The build took about 4 minutes to come up with, but I'd still argue for Bonetti's Uberness over Watch Yourself Uberness.

At first it looks like free energy vs free armor, which might be debatable.

However, this character is intended as a duelist, and frontline fighters rarely take a ton of damage- until their monks go down. Your armor is decent enough to soak up most incidental damage, especially since a lot of it will be elemental damage, where you are actually a better tank than any warrior.
You have Throw Dirt to help with one or two attackers bothering you, but it has a long cooldown.
Watch Yourself is nice, don't get me wrong. It's brokenly good. If I had room for it I'd bring it. But it's basically "nice, great to take if you can fit it, but it won't save your life."

You activate Bonetti's Defense in 1 of 2 situations:
1) You're out of energy and you need a quick refill.
2) You're coming under heavy focus fire.

In those situations, bonetti's shines, while watch yourself doesn't help you at all with #1, and is certainly welcome, but not a lifesaver, in #2.

The Knights Templar

Apr 14, 2005, 05:50 PM

What do you guys feel would be an efficient farmer? I'm thinking between a W/Mo and a R/Mo, but the Ranger would be SO much faster with Tiger's Fury. I don't really consider killing slowly to be an effficient method of farming.

Xellos

Apr 17, 2005, 01:00 PM

Hunter's is better than Power Shot because it does the same amount of damage with a chance to cause bleeding for an extra 6DPS with 1 second less recharge time and 5 less energy before you get to Expertise.

Penetrating is better because with 20%AP you're getting close to that amount of damage on a 60AL target (That's 12AL off for a base of 48AL which means you'll deal something like 12~15% more damage enough to put you right close to the +25 on Power Attack.) with 1 second less recharge and it gets better the more armor your target has. It's a closer case but Penetrating is superior depending on your targets and tactics. Not the best attack skill ever but solid enough to make the cut.

I was basing this question off March BWE, so that might be the confusion. Or were you saying the old +17 hunters shot > 24+ power and +5/20%Pen > 24+ power. Right now, power shot is only at 18+, which makes it utterly useless in my eyes, when penetrating shot does 14/20.

Just a question, would it be stronger if the barrage bot didn't use judges insight, yet somehow made up for the fact that he constantly has the 15%+ extra damage caused by the modifier? Overall I mean.

EDIT: Nevermind, it's definately weaker. Err actually after testing both, I'm not sure.

New question: For these builds that you guys post, could you guys put the ideal item modifiers too? :P

Loviatar

Apr 17, 2005, 08:57 PM

how much of a nerf is the 5 to 10 recharge of Tigers Fury?

in real life terms so to speak.

MoldyRiceFrenzy

Apr 19, 2005, 11:01 PM

hmm well i did this for ranger/w

because i liked how the ranger looked.... lol

Hundred blades
dirsupting shot
(somthing else i forgot)
endure pain
other pain thing for warrior
lightning reflexes.
thats pretty much all

but then i realized that if i used a w/r its 10XXXXXXXXX better...
... because i get like 200 health each time i use endure pain even though it goes away its like a instant boost of nice life if u put skills in strgth
i pretty much all i did was max out strg and swordmanship lol turned out great but sorta boring because well i mean its a warrior... theres not much skill or fun using a 100% warrior...well to me..

Xellos

Apr 20, 2005, 07:42 AM

Ensigns Aragon doesn't work using PVP character because the shield requires 9 tactics not 8 :( Oh Noez! Going to have to use the 11/10/10/1+rune trick now :confused:

Weezer_Blue

Apr 20, 2005, 07:47 AM

Here's one that worked fairly well for me...

Interupter/ Pure Ranger

Expertise: 12
Marksmanship 12:
Beast Mastery: 11

Hunters Shot
Distracting Shot
Throw Dirt
Pin Down
Incindiary Arrows (E)
Choking Gas
Whirling Defense
Troll Unguent

It's mostly for interuption and pin down and throw dirt are for disabling my opponents so they can't damage be at all.

Insomnia

Apr 20, 2005, 11:54 AM

Hi, i'm searching for a ranger build to do as many dmg as possible with my bow in a period of time. But i'm having a problem with the not-stacking of stances, i was thinking about tiger's furry and practiced stance, wich one would you recommend? bigger speed or longer preps (+shorter casting times)

Xellos

Apr 21, 2005, 04:30 AM

Question, which does more damage, Shock Sniper, or Barrage Bot in terms of single-target damage? Is Punishing Shot still worth it after the nerf?

Ensign

Apr 21, 2005, 12:16 PM

Shock Snipers, definitely. That build is all about single target damage, and lots of it.

Barrage Rangers are for dealing out a lot of damage to people who get too close to each other. They do decent to good single target damage but nothing close to what a shock sniper dishes out.

Peace,
-CxE

Weezer_Blue

Apr 22, 2005, 05:14 PM

Fragility Ranger/Mesmer

Expertise: 12
Marksmanship: 12
Illusion Magic: 11

Incindiary Arrows (E)
Hunter's Shot
Throw Dirt
Pin Down
Fragility
Conjure Phantasm
Apply Poison
Phantom Pain

Since Fragility is triggered both when an enemy suffers and recovers from a condition, you want to make it last a very short time and then do it to them again. Incindiary Arrows is perfect for this. It interupts, it causes a condition for only 1 seconds, and for that one second, they have a ton of health degeneration from being on fire.
Hunter's Shot causes bleeding for quite some time, but it's still worth it for the extra damage, the triggering of fragility, and the degen.
Throw dirt is yet another condition that will blind everyone near your target. One of my favorite skills in the game.
Pin Down immobalizes your enemies which allows you to punish them more. And quite often, your enemy is stupid enough to keep trying to move around. Bleeding for you!
Apply Poison is to be used while incindiary arrows is recharging - which isn't that long but it's nice to have a back up... and lots of degen. I suggest having a slow firing bow for when you use this to allow it to be enacted, and then be cured by your next shot.
Conjure Phantasm isn't a condition, but it will put massive degeneration on them, and it's a great skill.
Phantom Pain is yet another condition.

valorien

Apr 23, 2005, 02:48 PM

Looks like it could be a great build. Hope it works out for you.

Raumoheru

Apr 23, 2005, 05:21 PM

i am assuming those stats are after you add items?

SoulHunter

Apr 23, 2005, 09:18 PM

Gerbill

Apr 24, 2005, 05:20 AM

Has anyone had luck with a Ranger/Necro build? I am preordering from EB games because its near my house, if I could I was preorder at CompUSA to get the Bone Idol because I want to be a Necro. But my parents own a comp storeand I have a feeling they won't take me to CompUSA. So since the EB games preorder comes with an Ithas Bow, I'm gonna start off with a ranger. In time though, I'll try necro as a primary class. Oh yeah, what will be a good secondary for a ranger that will be primarily working as a long-range damage dealer and also working on Beast Mastery but not as much.

I don't know if the build is good, because I haven't played it but I think you should just play what you think you will like most, at least for me I play it to be fun, don't neccesarrily need to use an item if it's not for your profession, besides you might start a ranger later on.

SoulHunter

Apr 24, 2005, 08:58 AM

Yeah I guess so, when the day comes I will decide. Either way, I'll try out all the primary classes I would like eventually.

Scavenger

Apr 24, 2005, 12:32 PM

I see a lot of builds that are ranger/something but y not just ranger? They have good skills on thier own if u mix them right.
I came up with this:

Class: Ranger

Assumed items:
+2 to Expertise
+2 to Marksmanship
+2 to Wilderness Survival

Attributes: (cost)
Expertise: 11+2 (77)
Marksmanship: 10+2 (61)
Wilderness Survival: 10+2 (61)

Total attribute points used: 199/200

Skills:
1) Power Shot - (10,0,6) If Power Shot hits, you strike for +18 damage.
2) Precision Shot - (10,0,6) If Precision Shot hits, you strike for +18 damage. Precision Shot cannot be blocked or evaded. This action is easily interrupted.
3) Hunter's Shot - (5,0,5) If Hunter's Shot hits, you strike for +13 damage. If this attack hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins bleeding for 21 seconds.
4) Read the Wind - (5,2,12) For 12 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast as normal and deal 9 extra damage.
5) Kindle Arrows - (5,2,12) For 12 seconds, your arrows deal an additional 20 fire damage.
6) Incendiary Arrows (elite) - (5,2,24) For 8 seconds, targets struck by your arrows are interrupted and set on fire for 3 seconds. This is an elite skill.
7) Ignite Arrows - (10,2,12) For 12 seconds, your arrows explode on contact, dealing 15 fire damage.
8) Troll Unguent - (5,3,10) For 10 seconds, you gain health regeneration +9.

A little costly on health but you can do a lot of damage plus youve got a pretty bad ass heal which u can keep puttin on yourself and its cheap.

Basically use a prep then go through your 3 moves then move to a different prep, simle but effective.

Gh0sT

Apr 24, 2005, 03:25 PM

True... the ranger is the perfect jack of all trades... it doesnt really need a secondary class...

Gerbill

Apr 24, 2005, 03:58 PM

You might want to add another interruption skill there though, you have the elite one there, but that has a cooldown of 24 secs ?
bit too slow.. distracting shot also makes the character struck not being able to use it for 20 seconds, seems a lot better to me.

Ensign

Apr 24, 2005, 05:02 PM

it doesnt really need a secondary class...

That, in a sentence, is why Rend gets stuck on the Rangers.

Peace,
-CxE

Scavenger

Apr 24, 2005, 05:53 PM

JeshterDaggerfury

Apr 24, 2005, 10:24 PM

How about this build? I got this idea from the Trapper post early in this thread. It's only a slight modification on Scaphism's build.

This is a PvE ranger, but swapping out the traps, can become a decent PvP ranger with his Necro secondary.

Marksmanship 10 + 1
Wilderness Survival 11
Expertise 10 + 1
Curses 3

Oath Shot {elite}
Point Blank Shot
Precision Shot
Whirling Defense
Flame Trap
Barbed Trap
Shadow of Fear
Troll Unguent

The idea is soloing. Get a small group, attack with Whirling Defense up, follow up by slowing them down with Shadow of Fear for 25 seconds while you work your magic. Stack Flame Trap and Barbed trap as soon as possible. Reset skills with Oath Shot. Repeat as energy allows.

Sound feasible?

Gerbill

Apr 25, 2005, 03:31 AM

Pft...

I didnt put incendiary arrows there for the interuption, I put it there for the whole setting on fire thing i jus like that little nasty condition.

The interuption was jus a bonus lol

Besides the long recharge is made up for by the other preps in the build. Theres nothing special bout this build but use a prep then use a move its like raw damage I just put it up to show you dont always need a secondary class because rangers have good skills on thier own.

Hmm you say Ranger has good skills of his own which is correct, but you will need interuption skills or debiliration shot to remove 10 energy from your opponents. now you only deal extra damage, lose one of them skills for an interruption skill I'd say

Xellos

Apr 25, 2005, 04:04 AM

I'm a sucker for Debilitating Shot :P

JeshterDaggerfury

Apr 25, 2005, 06:29 PM

Am I correct in assuming that Ensign's trapper build:
Offensive Trapper
Ranger/Necromancer

Expertise 11, +3 Rune
Wilderness Survival 11, +1 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 8, +1 Rune
Curses 3

Oath Shot
Distracting Shot
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Healing Spring
Whirling Defense
Throw Dirt
Shadow of Fear

Is no longer possible? Aren't Oath Shot AND Throw Dirt both Elite?

Maybe I'm missing something.

Xellos

Apr 25, 2005, 06:40 PM

Throw dirt is no longer elite!

JeshterDaggerfury

Apr 25, 2005, 06:47 PM

Oh, I had it backwards. Thanks.

Shadow_Wolf

Apr 25, 2005, 06:58 PM

something i've wanted to ask to all the people that have used a ranger in beta, what to you all was the perfered type of ranger, and what skills were the most effective, or most useful.

Gh0sT

Apr 26, 2005, 06:03 AM

Yea i'd like to know the same... any skills you couldnt do without and what reason ??? ... :D

Zarconis

Apr 26, 2005, 07:47 AM

There are no "must have" skills as they all serve a purpose for a given situation. Some might say Troll Ungent for the healing, others will say Hunter's Shot for the damage it does to most foes, others again will argue the Penetrating Shot and it's 20% Armor Penetration is bar none the most powerful and that every ranger should carry this. However, the trappers will argue that no ranger worth their salt will go into battle without Barbed trap. Finally, the defensive minded rangers will mention Whirling Defense as a must have.

I could go on like this suggestion Debilitating Shot is the core for any anti caster build or Read the Wind is essential for those pesky people who try to dodge your longbow attacks. Furthermore, Tigers Fury is pretty much unmatched in terms of stances, however a faster attack rate doesn't do much without something to back it up. Marksman's Wager is great for energy management, Oath Shot for those few Rangers that have energy to spare, but need their skills NOW. Barrage is great for hitting multiple targets at once, Pin Down keeps the enemies from reaching you or running too far from you....

It's not so much about the ONE skill, it's more about what you want to do with your character. Do you want to be a Real Hunter, a purely offensive character or do you want to be a Caster Sniper ? There's quite a few different ways to go even without adding a second profession which is especially true of the Ranger.

Xellos

Apr 26, 2005, 08:18 AM

Sure there is, the skill is called common sense. Takes alot of grinding for most people to get it :P

Plus, your an imposter. Dr.Hobo would NEVER talk like you do.

Gh0sT

Apr 26, 2005, 09:15 AM

LOL ... i was more pointing towards what is your favorite skill, not which is best because i know there isnt any....

Xellos

Apr 26, 2005, 09:55 AM

Penetrating Shot seems important for most.

Davion

Apr 26, 2005, 01:17 PM

The nice thing about penetrating shot isn't that it's a great skill. It's a little above average for the most part. The key is to remember that it is available right after getting out of the academy (easy to attain early on), and that it gives you an extra bonus to your damage against "hard" targets; especially when you are still somewhat lacking in the power of your attribute levels. This can be helpful to add an extra buff to your inherent damage of your bow on those boss targets where any advantage you can gain is a boon to your survivability when fighting them. The more you can negate their advantage (higher level than you and inherently, but not shown, better armor value) against killing them off, the faster they will go down. It's a nice extra skill to run with in any case. ;)

WNxTyphoon

Apr 26, 2005, 02:00 PM

Oath Shot is my hero :).

Canook

Apr 26, 2005, 08:06 PM

i wanan try a ranger/elementalist build. that looks real cool.

BlurredVision

Apr 26, 2005, 08:49 PM

Fragility Ranger/Mesmer

Incindiary Arrows (E)
Hunter's Shot
Throw Dirt
Pin Down
Fragility
Conjure Phantasm
Apply Poison
Phantom Pain

Isn't Incindiary Arrows part of the Wilderness Survival skills?

Expertise: 12
Marksmanship: 12
Illusion Magic: 11

Is this possible?
Sorry if I sound like a newb, my first post and everything.

Xellos

Apr 26, 2005, 09:51 PM

Weezer_Blue

Apr 26, 2005, 10:12 PM

Isn't Incindiary Arrows part of the Wilderness Survival skills?

Is this possible?
Sorry if I sound like a newb, my first post and everything.

mm hmm! that's the point.

see, fragility triggers both when a condition is put on you and when it goes away. that's why you want your opponent to ignite and be extinguished by your next shot. that way it will be
Bow Damage
Fragility Damage
Fire Degen
Fragility Damage
Bow Damage
and so on.

Oh... And you can use skills from any attribute even if you don't invest points in them. So even though I have 0 in wilderness survival, using it suites my needs perfectly. it's a strange instance of when you would ever want to use a skill you have no points in.

Zeppo

Apr 26, 2005, 10:36 PM

help! ranger mesmer or ranger necro! :confused:

Gh0sT

Apr 27, 2005, 01:37 AM

Depends on what you want to do with ur character...

You should really look at some basic builds... and decide what skills you'd rather have.... a R/Me is more of a caster interuptor and a R/N ... well dont really know because i havent really looked in it myself...

DragonLord

Apr 27, 2005, 03:18 PM

hi, i am getting the game today and want to be a ranger primary, what would you say would be a good all round secondary class for a noob? I just want it to be generally good.

JeshterDaggerfury

Apr 27, 2005, 03:31 PM

Did you read this sticky before asking that? There's like 20 examples in this thread.

FrodoFraggins

Apr 27, 2005, 08:03 PM

What do the numbers in parantheses mean?

|
|
|
|
|
V

Skills:
1) Power Shot - (10,0,6) If Power Shot hits, you strike for +18 damage.
2) Precision Shot - (10,0,6) If Precision Shot hits, you strike for +18 damage. Precision Shot cannot be blocked or evaded. This action is easily interrupted.
3) Hunter's Shot - (5,0,5) If Hunter's Shot hits, you strike for +13 damage. If this attack hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins bleeding for 21 seconds.
4) Read the Wind - (5,2,12) For 12 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast as normal and deal 9 extra damage.
5) Kindle Arrows - (5,2,12) For 12 seconds, your arrows deal an additional 20 fire damage.
6) Incendiary Arrows (elite) - (5,2,24) For 8 seconds, targets struck by your arrows are interrupted and set on fire for 3 seconds. This is an elite skill.
7) Ignite Arrows - (10,2,12) For 12 seconds, your arrows explode on contact, dealing 15 fire damage.
8) Troll Unguent - (5,3,10) For 10 seconds, you gain health regeneration +9.

SoulHunter

Apr 27, 2005, 08:05 PM

Which is better, the Aragon is teh sexeh (lol) or the Shock Sniper build? I'm not sure which one to choose, the ybot hseem pretty good.

JeshterDaggerfury

Apr 27, 2005, 09:16 PM

JeshterDaggerfury

Apr 27, 2005, 09:17 PM

Which is better, the Aragon is teh sexeh (lol) or the Shock Sniper build? I'm not sure which one to choose, the ybot hseem pretty good.

Shock sniper is way better, in my opinion, once you hit level 20 and have all your skills. Just remember that as a shock sniper, you have to have a bow-string of the element that you want to Conjure in order for it to be effective. This is a change that makes being a Shock Sniper a tad more difficult at first.

Tanis Griffon

May 02, 2005, 03:33 PM

Shock Sniper
Ranger/Elementalist

Expertise 10, +3 Rune, +1 Hat
Marksmanship 11, +1 Rune
Beastmastery 1, +1 Rune
Air Magic 10

Penetrating Attack
Hunter's Shot
Punishing Shot
Pin Down
Read the Wind
Favorable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Conjure Lightning

Hi Everyone, what does the "+3 Rune, +1 Hat" mean and how to get it?

Thank you.

Tanis Griffon

May 02, 2005, 03:37 PM

Shock sniper is way better, in my opinion, once you hit level 20 and have all your skills. Just remember that as a shock sniper, you have to have a bow-string of the element that you want to Conjure in order for it to be effective. This is a change that makes being a Shock Sniper a tad more difficult at first.

Jeshter,

I am new to the game. What do you mean that "you have to have a bow-string of the element that you want to Conjure in order for it to be effective"?

Thank you.

Jackell

May 02, 2005, 05:16 PM

what does the "+3 Rune, +1 Hat" mean and how to get it?
QUOTE]

Rune - These are armor additions. You pull them off of special armor by using an Expert Salvage Kit, and start appearing around the Yaks Bend area. However, you may not always pull the rune you want, so it will take a little while to get it.

Hat - Rangers get masks that they can craft that will increase a skill level by 1.

[Quote] "you have to have a bow-string of the element that you want to Conjure in order for it to be effective"?

You get special bow strings just like Runes. You find a good bow that has the elemental damage, and use an expert salvage kit. Once again, this could take a while to get, and it is nescarry if you plan on using conjure lightning, conjure fire, or conjure frost with your skills.

BigWu

May 03, 2005, 02:22 AM

Hey guys thanks a lot for the info here, I have learned a lot. I am going to build a ranger/elementalist. I am wondering what a good skill combo would be. I am looking for some good sniping/damage skills with the ranger aspect, yet some good AOE from the elementalis skills. Any suggestions will be appreciated, thanks.

Jackell

May 03, 2005, 02:40 AM

Perhaps Pin down (Ranger) and Fire Storm (ELementalist) Slow em down and make em take full damage from the AoE?

Tanis Griffon

May 03, 2005, 12:19 PM

Thanks alot Jackell!

Serafita Kayin

May 03, 2005, 12:48 PM

I'm playing a Ranger/Elementalist, but instead of focusing on Air I focused in Fire, so I get to do things like the aforementioned cover them in arrows while I cast Fire Storm (haven't gotten Pin Down yet, only L8 and not completely sure I have found everything either...)

I'm finding it's a great direct damage character, though I need to get more by the way of salvage items to boost my armor...

Tyveil

May 03, 2005, 01:01 PM

Jackell

May 03, 2005, 03:03 PM

Your welcome Tanis. :)

Barnum

May 03, 2005, 10:41 PM

You get special bow strings just like Runes. You find a good bow that has the elemental damage, and use an expert salvage kit. Once again, this could take a while to get, and it is nescarry if you plan on using conjure lightning, conjure fire, or conjure frost with your skills.

It seems like you know a lot, so do you mind if I ask some questions?

I currently have a 14 R/E

I understand that you get runes from salvaging colored items w/ expert kits. But do you apply the runes to armor only? And can you take it back after you have done it? Also I see bow upgrades and strings, are they the same thing? Can you take them off also?

Correct me if I am wrong on any of this.

I was going for the Exp/Mark/Air Mag Configuration, so your statement about having a bow that does elem got me. So if i want to use conjure lightning I have to have a bow that does lightning dmg, so add a shocking rune to it?

If I have a rare yellow bow that already does cold dmg, can I add a shocking rune to it to make it do lightning?

Also for the config, it says like minor rune of such and such, I just get them and add them to my armor?

I am sorry for the all the ?'s but I would really appreciate it if they were answered. Thanks so much

One more thing...How many things can I add to my bow and pieces of armor? If I have a rare yellow bow that already has like +15% dmg, +7 armor, +10 armor penetration, can I add more? I would just like to know what can be added.

Again, thanks

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 04:55 AM

I understand that you get runes from salvaging colored items w/ expert kits. But do you apply the runes to armor only? And can you take it back after you have done it? Also I see bow upgrades and strings, are they the same thing? Can you take them off also?

Ok, let me see here. First of all, you can only pull runes off of colored armors, and weapon upgrades off of colored weapons WITH NAMES (i.e. Sword of doing cool stuff)

Runes: These can only be applied to armor, and you can only take them off when you salvage the armor. Make sure to use an expert salvage kit, and there's no 100% guarantee you'll get the rune back. If you have, say, a Minor Rune of Marksman on a piece of armor, and you want it back for your new armor, that's your best bet, but you may take a loss.

Weaponwise, there's Bow grips and bow strings (also, sword hilts, wand covers, and other things for other weapons). You can have one grip and one string on a bow. So you can have a shocking bowstring and a grip of enchantment, or other combinations. To remove, you salvage the weapon with an expert salvage kit. Now, to the extent of my knowledge, you'll only get one of the two back, so it may not be the one you want. Once again, by playing like this, it is a risk. But, IMO, well worth it. What's another 2 hours of farming for a new shocking bowstring if you love your class? You may be able to get both back, and i don't know about it, but from my experience, I've always just got one back.

If you want to upgrade your weapon, you apply a new piece to it. Say you have a bowgrip of protection (armor +4) and want a grip of enchantment (enchantments 10% longer). You use the new grip just like the old one, and I beleive you loose the old upgrade. I don't think it goes back into your inventory. Same applies for bowstrings and runes as well.

I was going for the Exp/Mark/Air Mag Configuration, so your statement about having a bow that does elem got me. So if i want to use conjure lightning I have to have a bow that does lightning dmg, so add a shocking rune to it?

A shocking bowstring, but yeah, that's pretty much it. Personally, I'm all sorts of happy. I just bought a Frozen Composite Bow of Enchanting for real cheap, and my guildmate just found conjure frost. Now I just have to get there. ;)

But, it's not just you that's screwed. That applies to swords as well, and I think wands.

If I have a rare yellow bow that already does cold dmg, can I add a shocking rune to it to make it do lightning?

Yup. You'll loose the cold though.

Also for the config, it says like minor rune of such and such, I just get them and add them to my armor?

Yeah.
(In case you haven't seen em, runes are like: Minor rune of Marksmanship, etc.)
Minor - +1 to whatever skill the rune is for.
Major - +2, and -50 hp
Superior - +3 and -100 hp

I am sorry for the all the ?'s but I would really appreciate it if they were answered. Thanks so much

It's no problem at all. Half of what I know I learned from asking. The only thing I'm not going to answer is "Where do I learn Conjure Frost." That's my R/Ele's little secret. At least for another 2 days before everyone else gets there. ;)

One more thing...How many things can I add to my bow and pieces of armor? If I have a rare yellow bow that already has like +15% dmg, +7 armor, +10 armor penetration, can I add more? I would just like to know what can be added.

This might get a little complicated, so bear with me if I mess up a thing or two. ;) It is 5:30 am after all.

It sounds like the +7 armor has a bow grip of defence, and a cool string that will do the armor penetration. So, the extra 15% it looks like is there to stay while the others change with your additions.

The best way to tell, once again only from my experience, is to read the name. If it has an upgrade on it, it will say it in the name. I'm going to use my bow as an example so you can see what I mean:

Normally, it would be Composite Bow.
I add the Frost string, it becomes Frozen Composite Bow.
I add the Enchanting grip, it becomes Composite Bow of Enchanting.
Add em both, you have a Frozen Composite Bow of Enchanting. Since their in the name, the Frost and Enchanting are the upgrades.

I'm not sure if I explained that well enough, so let's do one more. (Humor me people, I'm sleep depped. ;) )

Ok, let's make up a Vampiric Longbow of Protection
Damage - 13 - 19
Damage +10% when hexed
For every attack you hit, you loose one life but gain 1 energy
Damage 20% customized for Joe Shmoe
Armor +4

In the name Vampiric, so the loose life gain energy was an upgrade that you will loose if you upgrade that piece again, or may get if you salvage it.
Also, protection - Armor +4.

The damage 20% was a customization, which is something you can do at ANY weapons crafter. You get an extra 20% damage, but you can't sell the item to other players.

So, when this bow started out, it was just a Longbow with damage 13 -19, with Damage +10% when hexed.

So to answer your original question. 4. 3 if it was just a regular bow to begin with.

Did this make sense? I kind of confused myself here.

Oh, and as for armor, I think just one rune per peice of armor. Not sure if you can add a rune to a headpiece though. I've only gotten one rune I can use so far, so, I haven't played with that too much.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can only use runes from your primary, not from your secondary.

Again, thanks

No problem. Let me know if I can be of any other help. My in-game name is Jackell Keliant, feel free to add me to your friendslist, so if you need an answer on the spot, you can pm me if I'm on.

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 05:14 AM

I'm an elementalist with ranger secondary looking for a way to incorporate more ranger skills into my character (right now I"m only using charm pet, which will be useless for PvP). I want to plan a lvl 20 build that will be better PvP than PvE.

I have considered switching to using a bow (rather than a staff or wand) and sinking points into markmanship. The only problem is that when you're using a weapon, you're not casting, and when you're casting, you're not using a weapon. So this would extremely lower the usefulness of my primary skill (aura of restoration), because I would be casting less, I would not be rejuvinating as much health. And if I lower the value of my primary skill, I may have well been R/E instead of E/R because then I could have expertise as well and use better bows. This could still be viable though because at least I get the extra energy from the energy storage attribute, despite lowering the usefulness of the one skill that uses it.

Another build option may be to go with the wilderness survival line and be an elusive mage with skills like dodge (evade?), and other skills that make me harder to hit and quicker.

Any other suggestions appreciated.

PvP E/R eh? Not really my expertise, but I'll take a crack at it.

For your elusive mage, evade could work, but look into Lightning Reflex's or... Hmm, can't remember the name of it, but it blocks arrows and basically throws em at close enemies. Sorry I can't remember the name.

I have a few ideas I'd like to float by you. I'm not too well-versed in Elemantalist primaries, so let me know if these wouldn't work.

First of all, you can find decent bows for Marksmanship 8. So, maybe if you find one during a fight, or see one for cheap (don't pay too much, I don't know if this will work out well, but it may be worth a try), try bumping your marksmanship to 8, and add like, a frost, fire, or lightining (depending on what your primary element is) you shouldn't take too hard of a hit on an elemantilist attribute, and put conjure *frost/fire/lighting* on your tool bar. It last for 60 seconds, and if anything could just give you a little extra damage when your just plain attacking instead of casting. I'm sure once or twice during a fight you throw your little wand sparklies of pain. This could make it a little more effective damagewise for those few seconds before you cast again, while only taking up one skill slot. The major downside I see to this is loosing your energy bonus from your second hand Chakran or whatever you use, but that's why they make secondary weapon sets. :)

The other suggestion I have is if your focusing on Earth magic instead. Have a crappy little bow you can quickly switch to for a second or two. Knock em down with your Earth magic and give em a little Hunters shot to show you care. Once again, only taking 1 spot away from your Elemantilist skills.

I honestly don't think your going to want too many bow attack skills, since you won't have expertise to bring the cost down, but I don't know how good energy storage is, so I can't speak from experience there.

Oh, more ideas I just thought of.

Elementalist with wilderness survival for traps? Surround yourself with traps so if a melee comes close kaboom? Or try some spirits. Fertile Season, or the spirit that makes your skills recharge twice as fast. From my experience in my little dabbling with my elementalist secondary, ele skills do take a little while to recharge.

Just some ideas. Like I said, I haven't tried them, so, I can't say for sure they will work.

Garrett

May 04, 2005, 08:34 AM

Epinephrine

May 04, 2005, 09:01 AM

I think serpent's quickness (which lowers your recharge time on spells by 33%) from ranger would work well with an elementalist primary. Since Serpent's Quickness is from the wilderness survival line, maybe add in troll ungent for some self healing. Another from wilderness survival that might be helpful is Barbed Trap, which has AoE cripple, making it easier to smack the other team with your AoE. Just a few suggestions, which may or may not work.

I'd agree that Wilderness is the line to go with. I'm working on a Ranger/Mesmer caster right now, planning to use wilderness and mesmer attributes (I wanted the Ranger armours, I can afford the loss of fast cast and 1 pip of regen for the better armour out of the deal) so I am essentially in the same boat as you are - a caster with a ranger secondary, though it's really my primary.

Loviatar

May 04, 2005, 09:07 AM

[QUOTE=Garrett]I think serpent's quickness (which lowers your recharge time on spells by 33%) from ranger would work well with an elementalist primary. QUOTE]

no

it is SKILLS not spells
it will not help elementalist spells at all

Description For 15-27 seconds, recharge times for your skills are lowered 33%. Serpent's Quickness ends if your health drops below 50%
Energy Cost 5
Casting Time 0 seconds
Recharge Time 45 seconds
Skill Type Stance
Linked Attribute Wilderness Survival

Epinephrine

May 04, 2005, 09:11 AM

sulos

May 04, 2005, 10:13 AM

how about a R/W with furry and Ignite Arrows. cast ignite arrows (lasts for 12 sec) then furry and you attack speed jumps like crazy and you have fire arrows. there is also another attack speed jump for the ranger so he could deal an insane amount of damage with furry and a prep. i am going to try this build out.

Epinephrine

May 04, 2005, 10:26 AM

Barnum

May 04, 2005, 01:40 PM

Thank you Jackell for all of the replies, they have improved my understanding of the game greatly :)

iczer

May 04, 2005, 03:49 PM

Considering a Ranger/Warrior with more focus on using a melee weapon instead of a bow. My question is regarding Expertise: (Expertise reduces the costs of all Attack Skills, Preparations, Traps, Stances, Rituals, Glyphs, and Shouts by 4% per attribute level.)

Are the weapon skills like Cyclone Axe, Belly Smash and Crude Swing considered attack skills to which the energy reduction of expertise will apply to? The Expertise guide here on guru doesent list specifically which attack skills it applies to. I looked over the caster profession list and it appears that any of the caster ones that are a touch range are listed as skills instead of spells.

- Iczer

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 03:56 PM

As far as I know, yes those are considered attack skills. I think it's anything that uses your weapon to do damage is considered an attack skill.

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 04:03 PM

I was under the impression that the word skills refers to all skills, and that spells are a subset of skills. I believe you are wrong...

I just logged in for two minutes to test this out, using Serpants QUickness and Phoenix.

Serpents Quickness does indeed affect spells. It was actually pretty amazing how fast Phoenix recharged.

Tyveil

May 04, 2005, 04:18 PM

Elementalist with wilderness survival for traps? Surround yourself with traps so if a melee comes close kaboom? Or try some spirits. Fertile Season, or the spirit that makes your skills recharge twice as fast. From my experience in my little dabbling with my elementalist secondary, ele skills do take a little while to recharge.

Just some ideas. Like I said, I haven't tried them, so, I can't say for sure they will work.

Thanks for your thoughts, I'll have to re-spec for awile and see if I can make a bow work for this class.

I also thought about using trap skills, I just question how effective this will be in PvP. If they know I'm laying traps, won't they just stay out of their range and use ranged attacks on me?

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 05:33 PM

I'm afraid I can't actually answer this, since I've neither used traps or been hit with one, but I have heard of people having success with trap based characters, and I can definatly see the advantage to traps in GvG, so I wouldn't rule them out entirely.

I'd say give it a try. With a little practice, this could be quite devestating if it works like I'm thinkin it would.

I don't think the trap laying animation is very complex. Probably just the standard ranger crouch, glowing circle around them, maybe I'll give it a try sometime. I'll just have to figure out what quests and trainers I have to go to first. :)

Barnum

May 04, 2005, 05:45 PM

nivek7

May 04, 2005, 06:12 PM

I have a R/E and I can't decide between Fire or Air. Could someone lay out the general differences between them?

Thanks

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 06:20 PM

I know this isn't a Ranger skill, but can I eventually buy conjure lightning or do I have to quest?

Also, for my bows dmg, what is the best dmg to have that will do the most dmg, like overall what is the weakest armor. I am going to stick with lightning but I would like to know, thanks.

You can eventually buy Conjure Lightning, not sure if there's a quest for it.

As for elemental damage, the conjure's do the same amount of damage at the same level, so it actually depends on your targets armor. If your using Conjure Fire and their wearing Drake armor, your going to be stopped. If your using Conjure Frost, and their wearing Fur, same as before. I can't remember off hand what stops lightning, but it works the same. Elementalist's do get stop all elemental damage, but, that's what the rest of your team is for. ;)

Jackell

May 04, 2005, 06:26 PM

I have a R/E and I can't decide between Fire or Air. Could someone lay out the general differences between them?

Thanks

Well, the Conjure's are pretty much the same, just based on your targets armor.

The major difference comes in when you want to use their other skills, not just the conjure (I mention the conjure's a lot becasue that's the main reason a lot of people play R/Ele. And W/Ele for that matter too.)

Lightning has armor penetration, which makes it more apt to do more damage, while Fire is more Area of Effect based, capable of hitting multiple targets.

Once again, these differences don't apply to the Conjures, but the other skills.

Barnum

May 04, 2005, 11:15 PM

Hi you said something about shocking sniper, but I have not seen that skill listed anywhere on any site.

Jackell

May 05, 2005, 02:47 AM

Shocking sniper is just an archer that uses Conjure lightning.

Barnum

May 05, 2005, 05:42 AM

Ah ok, thought it was a skill, thanks.

Sideways

May 05, 2005, 02:44 PM

So - n00b question - Rangers can dual-wield?

Epinephrine

May 05, 2005, 02:50 PM

So - n00b question - Rangers can dual-wield?

No they can't

Sideways

May 05, 2005, 03:00 PM

No they can't

That new Photics issue (#17, shown on the first page) certainly gives off that impression.

Example:

...There's Marksmanship, Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival. Those are three unique lines, which can compliment each other. It's not the same as the Warrior, where you can only hold one melee weapon at a time.

See why I was confused? It's like he's saying "Warriors can only single-wield, but Rangers aren't limited that way..."

Stryder of the Wood

May 05, 2005, 06:31 PM

I don't see where shouts that affect pets are shown as active. Am I missing something? Can 2 shouts affect my pet at the same time?

Neo-LD

May 05, 2005, 09:36 PM

I liked the shock sniper build. But Im already a R/Mo and I dont want to start another ranger cus Im pretty far in the game. Can I use J.I. in place of conjure lightning for similar effect? Or is conjure really that good?

Jackell

May 05, 2005, 09:45 PM

Oh, J.I. is by itslef almost as good as Conjure, but since you don't need specific bow strings and can use that craft spot to put something else good, the two builds basically even each other out.

Gh0sT

May 06, 2005, 04:58 AM

The main advantage of conjure would be that it is a 1 time cast every 60 seconds... and for only 10 energy you can keep it up all the time

J.I. to the contrary only lasts for about 15 seconds (IIRC) and you have to reactivate it (one of the reasons i hate preparations, is they run off soo soon and i forget to re-enable them), not to mention the cost of it, just like conjure it costs 10 energy, but then for only 1/4th of the time...

But to even that out a bit you can keep the Zealous Bowstring :D

---

Though i still think (because i havent got conjure yet) that i like conjure better, because you only have to activate it once every 60 seconds...

Barnum

May 06, 2005, 05:57 AM

Jack, If I have 2 Minor Runes of Mark, can I use both? Like 1 in each armor?

Neo-LD

May 06, 2005, 06:25 AM

Jackell

May 06, 2005, 06:59 AM

Jack, If I have 2 Minor Runes of Mark, can I use both? Like 1 in each armor?

I can't see why it wouldn't let you. I don't know if I would go that route, I think I'd rather save the armor slot for a more usefull rune and take the hp hit, personally, but everyone has a different play style.

BTW, I was estatic to learn that you can in fact enchant your boots.

I know have FEET OF VIGOR!

Jackell

May 06, 2005, 07:02 AM

But doesnt conjure X have a long recharge time of 55 seconds? Doesnt make a difference usually cus the spell lasts 60 seconds, but if it gets dispelled... At least with JI you can recast if the enemy was smart and purged it.

Ah, we have some pvp ideas formin here. Yay!

A quick Conjure Ranger will in fact have to be on his guard. If someone who has a monk primary or secondary, or necro for that matter, looks like they may be casting a debuff on you, get that distracting shot or savage shot off and stop that spell in it's tracks.

Otherwise, you'll just be a ranger. But hey, even that's not too bad.

Gh0sT

May 06, 2005, 07:17 AM

But doesnt conjure X have a long recharge time of 55 seconds? Doesnt make a difference usually cus the spell lasts 60 seconds, but if it gets dispelled... At least with JI you can recast if the enemy was smart and purged it.

WHOW ... i never thought of that... good one... :|

Well... lets hope they wont do that... and otherwise you jsut gotta make sure you have some other good skills as well...

EDIT: What i got out of experiance btw (not much just a bit) is that mesmer's and other dispellers usually dont pay much attention to rangers casting a spell, since the elementalists and necro's form a much easier, bigger target and they are more dangerous...

grimboj

May 06, 2005, 08:29 AM

What do you guys use for pvp?

Atm I have maxed wilderness survival and use a combination of Pacifiness (Im R/Mo 20) & the Bleed/Cripple trap to get people then send my bear on them but its not that amazing on tanks although you can still tank any warriors hits with traul ungeant (which is +8 w/ the wilderness survival).

For PVE, I have some stats pumped into healing and use word to give the monks a helping hand. Using ignite arrows for main damage and wind shield + the pet skills & rez.

Plus.... any hints on how to get 00ber pets? I want something better than the bear and im not afraid to work hard or look far for it if anyone knows a rumour or summit.

+ Any general improvements with my general tactics.

Barnum

May 06, 2005, 09:23 AM

Jack, you mean add a rune to your boots?

The reason I asked that is because my setup only req 3 runes; Minor Exp, Major Mark, and Minor Air. So wouldn't I have 3 pieces of armor with empty slots? What would be your suggestion for the other 3 pieces for a R/E?

Thanks again

Xellos

May 06, 2005, 09:32 AM

Jackell

May 06, 2005, 09:34 AM

Yeah, I added Vigor runes to my boots. My feet are officially leet. ;)

Well, let's see. Thinking out loud here. ;) Armor: chest arms legs feet waist. Ok, you have three, and four armor slots, that leaves you with one left.

I'd say Vigor runes to make up for the hp your loosing from the Major rune.

One more thing, I think *not sure* that you can only use runes from your primary, so your Minor air may not work. I've never tried it before, so I'm not sure if it changed for retail. Next time I happen across one for my secondary I'll see if it works.

Barnum

May 06, 2005, 10:44 AM

So, what I am getting from you is that I can't add runes to my Mask and Gloves?

This is where I got the info for the air magic rune, maybe their wrong? I don't know.

Ranger/Elementalist (http://guildwarsguru.com/content/alpha-roundtable-1-id1164.php)

Barnum

May 06, 2005, 10:44 AM

Also what is a vigor rune that you added to your feet?

sulos

May 06, 2005, 10:55 AM

I'm busy laughing at the furry ranger ;)
i tried it out, i am a machine gun haha :D

bob

May 06, 2005, 11:28 AM

That new Photics issue (#17, shown on the first page) certainly gives off that impression.

Example:

See why I was confused? It's like he's saying "Warriors can only single-wield, but Rangers aren't limited that way..."
What he means there is that a ranger would be using skills that use ALL those attributes at once, while the warrior attributes are in weapon lines. Axe, Sword, Hammer.. and logically you choose just one, since you can only use ONE weapon at a time. Not that a ranger use multiple WEAPONS, but that its attributes are not in weapon lines like that. And instead of being mutally exclusive, can complement each other.

Jackell

May 06, 2005, 11:59 AM

LOL I just noticed that furry ranger.

Yeah, my fault, for some reason the gloves and mask totally slipped my mind. Vigor runes increase your maximum health. So I'd say, Expertise Rune, Marksmanship rune, Air rune (if possible) and 3 Vigor runes. ;)

Barnum

May 06, 2005, 01:50 PM

Ok, thanks a lot Jack

sanderke

May 06, 2005, 02:29 PM

Ok here's my build for a Ranger/Warrior.
I've got no fancy name for the build but that won't matter in combat now will it? =P

Mind you I haven't been in any beta's so I'm not experienced but I feel that this is quite a solid build.

As you can see it focuses very heavily on the dodge skills as I want to stay alive.

There are no bow attack skills in here as I plan to use my sword as the weapon of choise.
Having 75% dodge at practically all times should do very well in melee thus I'll only be using a bow to soften enemies up, snipe off cliffs and/or attack from range. (when in a party with several melee characters)
When I plan to be going mostly ranged I want to bring Powershot, Hunters Shot and Dual Shot instead of the sword skills.

As for equip, druids armor for the extra SP and a Superior Vigor Rune to negate the penalty of the Major Marksmanship Rune.

199 attribute points.
1 skillpoint left, gonna throw it into beastmastery I think incase I ever decide to solo and bring a pet.

Attributes:

Swordsmanship:
LVL: 12 (97 points)
(NOTE: Might change swordsmanship to LVL 10 to free up 36 points)

Expertise:
LVL: 9 (48 points)
(+ 1 Rune of Minor Expertise = 10)

Marksmanship:
LVL: 9 (48 points)
( + 2 Rune of Major Marksmanship = 11 )
( + 1 Hunters mask = 12 )

Wilderness Survival:
LVL 3 (6 points)
(+ 1 Rune of Minor Wilderness Survival = 4)

Skills:

Expertise
1. Lightning Reflexes {10.0.60}
For 5-10 seconds, you have a 75% chance to evade melee and arrow attacks, and you attack 33% faster.

2. Throw Dirt {5.1.45}
Target touched foe and foes adjacent to your target are Blinded for 3-13 seconds.

3. Escape (E){5.0.60}
For 5-15 seconds, you move 25% faster than normal and have a 75% chance to evade attacks. This is an elite skill.

4. Whirling Defense {10.0.60}
For 8-18 seconds, you have 75% chance to block attacks. Whenever you block an arrow this way, adjacent foes take 5-10 piercing damage.

Wilderness Survival
5. Troll Unguent {5.3.10}
For 10 seconds, you gain health regeneration +3-9.

Swordmastery
6. Sever Artery {0.0.4(adrenaline)}
Description: If this attack hits, the opponent begins bleeding for 5-21 seconds, losing health over time.

7. Gash {0.0.7(adrenaline)} (either Gash OR Final Thrust)
If this attack hits a bleeding foe, you strike for 5-9 more damage and that foe suffers a deep wound, lowering that foe's maximum health by 20% for 5-17 seconds.

Final Thrust {0.0.10(adrenaline)} (either Gash OR Final Thrust)
Lose all adrenaline. If Final Thrust hits, you deal 1-32 more damage. This damage is doubled if your target was below 50% health.

8. Unsure at the moment, perhaps one of these two: (comments please)

Apply Poison {15.2.12} (Wilderness Survival)
For 12 seconds, enemies struck by your physical attacks become poisoned for 3-13 seconds.

Read the Wind {5.2.12} (Marksmanship)
For 12 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast as normal and deal 3-9 extra damage.

bluex

May 06, 2005, 06:33 PM

im still undecided for R/N or R/E

R/N seems to have good solo reviews but with R/E lots of people say there really usefull

considering i dont know anyone (yet) id like to have a good solo char i was gonna make a W/Mo but i decided to make a ranger. Not sure to go with Necro or Ele for 2ndary

does anyone here have a R/N that could tell me stuff abt them??

Jackell

May 06, 2005, 06:41 PM

R/N's can be quite good as well.

The Rangers inate damage abilities combned with the Necro's weakening and debuffing.

bluex

May 06, 2005, 06:43 PM

from ur own personal experiance who would u pick R/E or R/N ??

and u know any sites that has any R/N GuidesB ??

Jackell

May 06, 2005, 08:01 PM

My personal experience? I'd choose R/E, but that's because I always liked elemental effects.

*edit*

But don't play one because of that. Play a R/Ele if you want that play style. Don't let my personal enjoyment of shooting an arrow that shocks somebody dictate your play style.

Barnum

May 07, 2005, 12:43 PM

Jack, what is the best bow for the ranger, dmg wise?

Right now I have the rare yellow one, 14-27 dmg, is that the best or no? I am asking because I don't want to add my shocking rune to it if I am going to get a better one.

Thanks

sanderke

May 07, 2005, 01:04 PM

15-28 damage Flatbow would be as good as it gets damage wise (highest damage, range and attackspeed) however it suffers from long inflight time of arrows which thus miss easier.

Jackell

May 07, 2005, 02:25 PM

I think 15 - 28 is the highest damage so far. Anyone get stats on anything better?

I personally like a Recurve or Compound bow over the Flatbow. It's inbetween the Flatbow's range and attack speed and the SHortbows's arrow flight time. As for damage, you can get a shortbow that does the same amount.

BryanusGreyblade

May 08, 2005, 01:49 PM

hi my name is Bryanus Greyblade im currently going to be in game for the first time monday evening and am thinking of making a ranger/elementalist but im thinking of trying to make a fire sniper type of build can anyone suggest what that would look like just so i know also if anyone has suggestions about changing this build please let me know by a pm thank you :D

Jackell

May 08, 2005, 03:32 PM

Honestly, you don't need to be an Ele for a fire sniper.

Kindle arrows works almost as well. Enchantment doesn't last as long but damage is close to the same.

If you want fire sniper, take wilderness survival, and use your secondary and bow string for something else.

Barnum

May 08, 2005, 04:27 PM

Jackell

May 08, 2005, 06:00 PM

I am kind of confused as to why the recurve bow is better than half moon. I just bought a recurve and a vampiric longbow. It seems to me like the half moon does more damage it dires a lot faster. The dmg on the half bow is piercing and the dmg on the recurve is lightning. Is it because mobs have better elemental armor? I'm thinking why not just put the upgrade on a half moon, wouldnt it put out more dmg?

If there is an explanation please let me know ;)

Also is there a difference between using conjure lightning or fire?

And I have not gotten conjure lightning yet, so maybe thats why the dmg is not good? but wouldnt it be the same with all bows?

First of all, this has the stats on bows:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content/missile-weapon-properties-id1092.php

Refire rate is how long it takes you to knock an arrow and release. FLight time is how long the arrow is in the air. A longer flight time means more chance of avoidance, but bows with a longer flight time refire faster.

Damage on most bows are piercing, only elemental bows have an elemental damage to them. The damage could be lessened by armor. If something has armor to defend against your element, your damage will go down. Conjure's add extra damage to your attacks. For example, my Dual shot with my elemental bow, instead of 2 damage listings, give me 4.

The difference in Conjures is basically to get around peoples armor. If someone is wearing anti-air armor, you will want to have a fire, and vice versa.

Barnum

May 08, 2005, 06:47 PM

Ok, thanks a lot. I guess I will get a bow for each dmg.

Medaran

May 09, 2005, 11:22 AM

Fragility Ranger/Mesmer

Expertise: 12
Marksmanship: 12
Illusion Magic: 11

Incindiary Arrows (E)
Hunter's Shot
Throw Dirt
Pin Down
Fragility
Conjure Phantasm
Apply Poison
Phantom Pain

What would be gained/lost if you took Distracting Shot over hunter's shot? or does the pindown/huntershot combo with the fragility add too much damage to drop it for an interupt?

Gh0sT

May 09, 2005, 02:27 PM

What would be gained/lost if you took Distracting Shot over hunter's shot? or does the pindown/huntershot combo with the fragility add too much damage to drop it for an interupt?

Huntershot and fragility dont work great together as huntershot causes bleeding over a 20 (or so) second time period....

The Incindiary arrows are to mix with conjure (fire damage for 1 second + 2x the fragility damage for starting the condition and ending it)

The huntershot could easily be replaced by a distracting shot...

I personally like huntershot though, it does nice damage and it causes bleeding... ive had it often that i killed someone with low life that was chasing a teammate because of that bleeding...

Visser

May 10, 2005, 02:03 AM

I kind of blanked out in the middle of page 3, so something might have been mentioned since then. Now that ive actually written this post, it sort of covers a bunch of non ranger specific stuff, but hopefully people with experiance can help me out here.

I created a r/mo, which is 12 currently.

Basically, i seem to be completely useless at... just about everything. Is a r/mo a worthwhile character? Other than a short mention with no commentary or explanation in the first post, theres been no mention of them. Nothing in the builds directory either.

Cant really damage much (although favourable wind + flame arrows + duel shot is good if you can setup), cant survive anything either. Troll ulument + healing wind(?) can make a good combo on me, but its nothing compared with what the few good monks can do. Yes, i have considerable points in healing prayers.

Cant seem to manage to track down any good monk skills either. Ive bought every one of the skills on the ascalon trainer, but i have many points left. Will there be more later.

Should i even think about my pet? It seems to be irrelevent in most cases. I got rid of the skill to heal or res it from my bar, and i dont miss it if its dead.

If i were to not equip any mo skills, would it be as if i had never taken a secondary profession? IE no disadvantages?

Side note, im quite aware im not at the end game yet, but why would you set up a char for pve? Even compared with the early/mid content of other games, its completely lacking in interest or depth. Pvp seems bad too, i REALLY hope that gets better at 20. Currently im having trouble making myself play the game just to level and try get there, something not at all usual for me.

EDIT: To be more constructive, what about marksmanship, healing prayers, ????, and minor in expertise for 4 places to focus points into?

THough it seems to be i would be much better off with a different secondary, and points into wilderness survival.

Gh0sT

May 10, 2005, 06:44 AM

Well a R/Mo can be a really helpful teammember... stay in the back, you can shoot from there and always carry a good healing spell and a rez...

If you cant find any skills... there are i think around the 10 skills you could have picked up in pre-searing... then there is the ascalon skill seller, in the area around ascalon is also a trader (i believe the monk is to the south when you exit ascalon).

Also visit the courthouse, its a little outpost close the the charr flametemple, it has a skill trader as well... and i think thats about it... the rest of the skills untill LA you get from quests...

Demosthenes

May 10, 2005, 07:04 AM

This is a build I've been going with for a while now, currently I have it at level 15, but this is what I plan to do. The skills are the set that I use currently, but I plan to change if I get new ones that catch my eye. Of course, I'm always open for critiques;

Attributes

Expertise: 10
Domination Magic: 10
Marksmanship: 11

The goal here is to be able to disrupt casters with both Domination Magic and the Ranger's marksmanship skills. Expertise is there to reduce the mana cost of the ranger side Skills in order to make room for the Domination spells on the mana bar.

Runes

None yet. I haven't salvaged or done my research, or even found runes yet; (I'm still a n00b) >_<

Skills

Distracting Shot
Debilitating Shot
Pin Down
Whirling Defense
Power Spike
Energy Burn [I'm thinking this needs to be changed]
Backfire
Ressurection Signet

Equipment

Full Set of Druid's Armor
A Good Bow

roselan

May 10, 2005, 07:22 AM

I'm currently a r/w. I hesitate to put skill points and use skills in expertise+marksmanship+(OR tactics OR wilderness survival).

Basically I plan to go for the "dodge" skills that should allow me to pounce on that monk while warriors try to get me down.

Maybe be even both of them... what do you gurus think about it?

I can reroll a r/m too to become a mage-pain-in-the-ass, but I like this idea of going in the mud, and not arround it ...

Davion

May 10, 2005, 07:27 AM

So, what I am getting from you is that I can't add runes to my Mask and Gloves?

Actually you can. I personally have gloves of minor expertise. ;)

It basically goes like this for ANY runes on a character,.. (this goes for anybody else needing to know out there too)...

You have a mask,chest,gloves,leggings,boots. (mask/helm can be with or without +1 to attribute variety)

ANY piece in that setup you are wearing can have ONE rune of either your primary profession or vigor.

Now, the limits are, you can only place one rune of any given attribute in any equipment you wear with the highest value rune taking preference. (same attribute runes DON'T stack) That goes for vigor as well; three levels of vigor runes to choose from,..is best if you can get the highest value one of them.

Now.. you have those 5 armor pieces (ranger example here). That means as a ranger you can have 1 of each primary profession attribute rune and one vigor, all of which are put in the various pieces you equip.

I hope that clears up any misconceptions any new people may get from the whole rune dilema. ;)

(I miss coming here,...been spending so much in game time educating people there ) :(

Howling Wind

May 10, 2005, 01:43 PM

I am going through a time to decide on a build, I'm currently following the shock sniper build, damage wise it will be good after getting conjure lightining and a elemental bow.

But i was wondering on a build fully concentrated on as a ranger revovling around expertise, markmanship and wilderness survival and use the pin down, poison skills and hunter shot for offense and troll unergent, read the wind and whirling defense as defensive skills and along with the zealous modifier to help with energy.

So i need opinions is the poison dmg really all that (with poison arrow skill + posion bow string + kinddle arrows)? Or is the elementalists way much better?

This is in PvE btw
What build seems more effective in PvE, in terms of being able to solo if needed (like when few party members die and not having to rely too much on others to protect you and also be quite effective on the offensive side? If poison + barrage could be stacked it would have been awesome..

I'd like to try these 2 builds out but is there a limit (after reaching 20) to how much you can mess about with your attributes? I mean i could use wilderness survival build now and then switch over elementalist at 20 if that is much better at that stage.

So please give advice and opinions, i really am struggling to decide.

Thanks

sulos

May 10, 2005, 05:00 PM

lol don't bash the frenzy ranger!!! if the enemies are ignoring me i press that and my char may as well pull out a m60 and lay waste. it is not great if you are the tank but standing back with a long bow i can shoot FASTER than anyone with a short bow and it doesn't take time to cast. as long as you are careful then the frenzy ranger with the machine gun is great. also if you cast the wind spirit, ha you will start believing you have a minigun. put on some fire arrows or posion arrows and watch their heal go down to 0!
warning, do not use frenzy around dumb friends, it can get ugly. :D
until you try it you shouldn't bash it, but i guess everyone thinks a ranger with a crazy rate of fire is funny.

Jackell

May 10, 2005, 11:37 PM

(I miss coming here,...been spending so much in game time educating people there ) :(

I'm glad to have some help here. :)

Xellos

May 11, 2005, 01:40 AM

Tavenlen

May 11, 2005, 09:48 PM

Hey, I was just wondering: for a Shock Sniper, is it best to have a Shocking Bow String? I can't decide between Shocking or Sundering and wanted to get some input on the subject.

Oh, also, I have a 15-28 Longbow that I like -- this is what the String will go on. What handle would you suggest also? Right now I have a Bow Grip of Warding (5 AL) and Bow Grip of Markmanship (Mark +1). Would either of these be good, or should I find something else?

Thanks!

Jackell

May 11, 2005, 10:33 PM

Shocking bowstring is the way to go, otherwise you won't be able to use COnjure Lightning.

I would say Warding is better than Marksman, usually the marksman type of bonus's only have like, an 11% chance to work. I personally use a Enchantment grip, so my conjure last for 1:20 seconds instead of 1:00

Tavenlen

May 12, 2005, 01:26 PM

Oh, you can't use Conjure [Element] unless you have that bowstring? Good thing I asked! Thanks Jackell.

Jimbodan

May 13, 2005, 12:38 AM

Is the Shocking Sniper still a viable build with some of the Ranger nerfing? Also is that about the best R/E build for PvE? I'm mainly interested in trying to solo with this build, or worst case take a couple henchmen with me for the tougher areas.

Rajamic

May 18, 2005, 01:48 AM

roselan

May 18, 2005, 02:56 AM

Is the Shocking Sniper still a viable build with some of the Ranger nerfing?

MWHAHAHAHAHAH...

I've got 2 questions:
1) If one were to combine ignite arrows with barrage, would it be possible for a target to get hit 6 times (1 arrow and 5 explosions)?

barrage sadly removes all prepartions (poison, ignite...)

I've got 2 questions:
2) What's the best type of bow for an interruptor to use?

short bow/half moon imo, as interuption needs very (too) precise timing. those are the fastest.

Gh0sT

May 18, 2005, 03:36 AM

I've got 2 questions:

1) If one were to combine ignite arrows with barrage, would it be possible for a target to get hit 6 times (1 arrow and 5 explosions)?

2) What's the best type of bow for an interruptor to use?

1) Ignite arrows and barrage dont work together... IA is a preparation and barrage doesnt work with preparations....

2) You will want the bow with the least ammount of airtime possible

Goonter

May 19, 2005, 01:23 AM

I got a question for the forum about what it is a decisively better combo. R/E or R/Me?

Ive found in pick up groups and rangers, it only happens out of desperation.

The 4 classes that are sought after most in PUGS are, monks, warriors, elementist and mez. Never the nec or ranger.

If you had to select between a Mo/W or a R/E for a mission and all you knew about them was thier class, ..be honest..youd go for the Mo/W. So they're under appreshated...thats ok.

Ive actually learn by playing a ranger, the best way for me to contribute to the team is basically go unnoticed by not dealing damage or healing but just support, by shuting the mages and healers down.

So Im thinking my play style is R/Me, but I have a R/E.

Just curious, what do you all think? If you had to select between a R/Me or a R/E for a mission and all you know about this person is thier class, which would your prefer?

Stephen Hawking

May 19, 2005, 04:08 AM

The main thing I like is arcane echo and debilitating shot. Basically, for 2 skills, you can shutdown anyone for energy. Add in tiger's fury to fire a little faster, but that's all that's needed.

One thing I do enjoy is the conjure <whatever> spells with the appropriate elem bow. You can deal a good amount of damage, and play warrior interrupt with air spells (javelin and whirlwind) for your group as needed. I would really enjoy earth spells, but between expertise, marksmanship, another element, and beastmastery or wilderness, its a tough fit. Not to mention, dual short or barrage with conjure is kinda nice (though barrage situations are few and far between in pvp).

As for picking either... I would just hope they're a competent ranger, like warriors, there's just too many to weed the good from the bad at times regardless of secondary.

Xellos

May 19, 2005, 07:18 PM

You need echo, not arcane echo. Arcane echo doesn't work for skills I believe. Only spells. Echo works for skills.

Josephine

May 20, 2005, 02:39 PM

Weezer_Blue

May 20, 2005, 02:50 PM

hey i was just looking at some of the shock sniper builds.. i find that most people use conjure lightning...

well i just finished this mission called ice caves of sorrow.. and i end up in this area where u can "infuse" armors.. and when u infuse armor piece u get +x lightning armor or something... and people can keep infused armors for the rest of the game...

judging from that.. i find that shock snipers will get owned in pvp if ppl have infused armors..

so wud it be just the same if i pumped fire magic and use conjure flame (get fiery bow string) which has the same effect as conjure lightning?

i think ppl shud be aware that lightning armor > shock snipers...

maybe fire magic is better...... and we'll be known as "burning snipers" :D

I really doubt that. All infusion does is put the line "infused" on your armour piece and make it so that the skill Spectral Agony that all the Mursaat use is reduced to only 1 arrow of regen. I could post a screenshot of my Druid's armour right now if I wasn't so lazy to prove my point... There's no vs Lightning bonus unless they recently changed it... In which case, A) What a stupid idea, B) why hasn't my armour been automatically updated?

In any case, I prefer Air Magic to all the other elements for most builds. I find that there aren't a whole lot of good R/E anymore though. They got nerfed out of their indeniable überness which made them popular several months ago and now there are people that still think they're good. Not that they're all bad, infact, there are some great ones... but most people are like "alright! so! conjure lightning should own cause it has +25% penetration (which it DOESN'T) and so on.

Josephine

May 20, 2005, 02:53 PM

well i find fire magic u get more variety of spells.. plus some cool ae spells for pve situations.. but yeah... conjure lightning shud have armor penetration ><"

but yeah.. i didn't know if they gave lightning armor or not...just a bunch of ppl told me u get lightning armor or smth.. (stupid ppl T_T")

Weezer_Blue

May 20, 2005, 02:54 PM

that would make it a thousand times better than the other 2 conjures though. if they ever did that, you would never see a fire or an ice ranger again.

Josephine

May 20, 2005, 02:59 PM

hopefully in the new patch they change it :D

Selena

May 20, 2005, 10:16 PM

I have a r/e char going the shock sniper route. I have been putting points in marksmanship, expertise, and air. Lately I have been wondering if I would be better off dumping air and going with wilderness instead...more of a "pure" ranger. Any advice would be appreciated.

Jackell

May 20, 2005, 10:51 PM

The only air skill I used until I got my Conjure was Gale. I found a quick and easy knockdown quite handy, whether it was getting something off a party mate, another interuption when all of mine were recharging, or setting up for a Hunters Shot, and it only requires a level 5 in Air, freeing up more points for Wilderness. I use actually 4 skill set up, High Marks and high expertise, medium Wilderness and low Air attribute point distribution.

Gh0sT

May 21, 2005, 06:01 AM

I used ot be a R/E as well, i just like teh idea of doing huge ammounts of damage in short time from a distance, but that wasnt really the case...

And i started thinking things like Kindle Arrows and Ignite Arrows do more damage then conjure, the only problem is that they dont last as long, and they dont work with barrage, but on the contrary of that you can use a zealous bowstring + conjure gets dispelled easilly and it has a 55 seconds recharge time after taht...

So IMO they nerfed it a bit TOO much... so i just switched to R/Me DoT build... it suits me fine so far... Poison + Conjure Phantasm = loosing 18 health per second.. and believe me that scares the SHIT out of them..

I use it to support my warrior (give him the edge), save my own ass vs warriors (hey 18 extra DPS vs a warrior, that shift the odds in ur favor a bit :D), or to keep a monk that busy that it has to make chooices: 1 do i save my own ass, from getting beaten up by that warrior or 2 do i save my teammates from a slowly and most painful death :D

---

I'll see how far i get with this build, maybe i'll when i get that far i'll change poison arrow, for apply poison again and put in Incendinary Arrows and Fragility as well for some extra hardcore damage, but i'll have to see about that...

Howling Wind

May 21, 2005, 06:20 AM

I'm actually a R/E build as well, not finding air as useful as wilderness survival mainly because of the healing + poision + kinde/ignite arrows skills and helps to survive on your own more.

I am currently still new and i'm about to ask some of the noobiest questions so don't flame:
1) what is meant by DPS?
2) can you switch your second professions later on? like after ascention?

Gildan

May 21, 2005, 06:31 AM

DPS = Damage per second

When you reach the desert there is a ghost (I believe) that offers you the chance to change secondary, I think you get all the skill points back from your original secondary.. but you have to go back to get the required skills. So.. err, Yes!

Howling Wind

May 21, 2005, 07:38 AM

ahh i c, thanks.

So when u say go back to get the required skills u mean the quests that offer secondary skills right...if so that is going to be long..but atleast i get skill points back.

Rhianedd

May 21, 2005, 03:29 PM

Really, there is no reason NOT to take a second class even if you don't plan on using it. It just gives you a few more options and keeps you from going "I really should've..."

Kodoku

May 22, 2005, 02:55 PM

I see a lot of builds that are ranger/something but y not just ranger? They have good skills on thier own if u mix them right.
I came up with this:

Class: Ranger

Assumed items:
+2 to Expertise
+2 to Marksmanship
+2 to Wilderness Survival

One of those three stats could be split between a mask and a minor rune, but you're still looking at -100 HP from two major runes. That's a whole lot of ouchy.

Tough Girl

May 22, 2005, 06:38 PM

I'm like a level 9 ranger. Here are my skills:

Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Dodge
Dual Shot
Favorable Winds
Feral Lunge
Hunters Shot
Ignite Arrows
Penetrating Attack
Point Blank Shot
Power Shot
Quickining Zephyr
Read The Wind
Troll Unguent
:cool:
You can get a bunch of skills from Sir Bertran in Ascalon City. This guy is after the Searing. Gives almost all of the skills for rangers.

I also have a bunch of cool weapons:

Diessa Flatbow of Fortitude
piercing damage 9-13 (requires 3 markmanship)
damage +33%
attack speed -67%
health +25
damage +20%

Horn Bow
piercing damage 7-11
damage +10% (while health is below 50%)
damage +20%

Ascalon Bow
energy +5
piercing damage 9-13 (requires 3 markmanship)
damage +25% (against charr)
damage +20%

:D cool huh?
my character is Poison Archer.
I'm on the level after the Searing!

Demetrious

May 23, 2005, 11:42 AM

Well I have a lv 12 R/Mo and I think it is a reasonable combination. Sometimes I wonder if it is "the best" but in missions with other players or in PvP, I stand up pretty well. Overall, I think the game is pretty well balanced.

I approach it from a traditional ranger/healer standpoint. Damage comes soly from ranger skills and Mo is used for healing. My attribute points are Expertise and Marksmanship as "primaries" - around level 7 and my secondaries are Wilderness, Beastmastery, and Healing. I end up keeping the two primary attributes set and adjust the others depending upon the role I will take. The skills adjust to the role as well.

I think you could argue this is tooo many attributes to cover but I have tried leaving off the pet all-together and I have more trouble ( I have a level 11 cat from the first ranger mission ). Wilderness is there mainly for ignite arrows but I find that spell very useful in dealing significant damage to the mob attacking the lead fighters. As a healer I am fair, but often the best the group has so they have to make do.

I think you also have to remember that, other than a warrior, this is the class most dependant on stuff - ie good armor and bow. A good bow definitely can make a below average guy look lots better.

If I can get into a group where I play a support role and add firepower on top of someone else - it works great. In PvE it seems effective. But in exploring and messing around I am in regions with monsters far below me. I wonder if I am the only non-powerhouse sometimes but when I group up, I more than hold my own so the worries leave.

It is not always straightforward though - Quickening Zyph definitely HURTS me in a solo role - so you have to choose skills and attributes to fit your role for that adventure. This is part of the reason I like the character though.

Any suggestions?

icpmrman

May 23, 2005, 02:47 PM

I am a level 9 R/Me and i find that i dont use a lot of my skills, even the ones in my skill bar. i use ignite arrows when i can remember or when i see a large group of mobs. then i mainly use power shot, conjure phantasm, and dual shot. i use hunters shot on a the melee guys, and troll..whatever i dont use since my health never drops below half. i have that spell that creates a spirit, but it takes so long to cast that it never seems useful. penetrating attack i find doesnt do as much damage as power shot.

i guess my point is i still dont know what the useful skills are, or maybe i am not fighting effectivley.

Josephine

May 23, 2005, 03:10 PM

is there a certain bow shock snipers shud be using? shortbow? longbow?

is there a difference in attack speeds with longbow and flatbow? cuz it seems longbow is the slowest.... and that sux... why is there a drawback on the longbow?

Demetrious

May 23, 2005, 03:26 PM

Range and attack speeds differ between bows. Longer range generally will fire slower.

icpmrman - if your health never drops but the bad guys do, then I would think all is well :)

CtrlAltDel

May 23, 2005, 03:41 PM

im doing pretty well as a R/E, fire ranger

with marks and exp both around 7-9, with wilderness at 2 and fire magic at 3

Penetrating Shot
Power Shot
Kindle Arrows
Favorable Winds
Phoenix
Fire Storm
Rez Signet (yes still need this even with monks going with in PVE, usually drop in when with henches and grab another marks skill)

I have a pretty nice short and longbow i use, cant remember stats right now, but im doing 40-60 damage a shot depending on what i have active...doing pretty well.

question about tigers fury...is it more beneficial than the quick shot elite skill? or do people just pick it 'cause you can get it sooner?

Josephine

May 23, 2005, 04:29 PM

how come it seems flatbow has the same range as longbow but shoots faster o.0

Lasher Dragon

May 23, 2005, 04:54 PM

how come it seems flatbow has the same range as longbow but shoots faster o.0
It has a much higher arc in flight, increasing miss chance against moving targets. It can be a boon though, as it is easier to lob arrows over obstacles.

Josephine

May 23, 2005, 05:25 PM

so it wil still hit the target the same time a long bow will?

Gh0sT

May 24, 2005, 04:01 AM

question about tigers fury...is it more beneficial than the quick shot elite skill? or do people just pick it 'cause you can get it sooner?

Well they are 2 different skills, tigers fury just lets you shoot (much) faster for about 7 seconds (depends on the ammount of points)...

And quickshot (correct me if im wrong, because i dont use it), just lets you shoot 1 arrow immediately... I dont know if quick shot is spammable, that would make it more useful perhaps, but still... i dont think quick shot beats tigers fury..

icpmrman

May 24, 2005, 01:52 PM

quick shot actually takes 1 second to cast, and all attack skills are diasbled for 2 seconds. so for one second you cant attack (assmuing the 2 seconds start when you start to use quick shot, otherwise you cant attack for 3 seconds)

on the other hand, tiger's fury only disables non-attack skills for 5 seconds. it would seem this is more useful because you would be able to use power shot or whatever attack skill you like more often.

Josephine

May 25, 2005, 12:22 AM

so is flatbow better than longbow? cuz it seems it shoots faster o.0

Gh0sT

May 25, 2005, 04:52 AM

Totally depends on preference...

Flatbow might shoot faster, but it also has a higher arc resulting in more misses, especially when targets are moving...

I use a Longbow, and i like it...

Im waiting for a good shortbow/half-moon to drop for me, so i have something fireing faster for close range...

Josephine

May 25, 2005, 01:00 PM

lets say 2 rangers are shooting at one target at the exact same time... one has longbow the other has flatbow.. the arrow will still reach the target at the same time right? it seems flatbow takes longer to get to the target.. therefore resulting in faster shooting speed?

im just curious to know which one is better..im a shock sniper.. i know i shud be using short or halfmoon.. but i prefer to be farther back while still doing some nice dmg ^^

YCantUDie

May 25, 2005, 09:49 PM

im a barragebot and im wondering wat kinda bow i should use...debating between recurve and half-moon

The Red Knight

May 26, 2005, 05:28 AM

both are great choices get enchanting grip and zealous string. Im a barrage bot too but still need to get tiger and raise my healing stat up some :rolleyes: . I need to find a clean 15-28 recurve with 15% dmg while enchanted to put zealous and encahnt on it

Goonter

May 26, 2005, 10:46 AM

I just tried the pvp template for an r/e called flame slinger. Its a really good build and I kind of wish I thought of it. As a r/e I dont think Ive every put out the damage that this build does.

Epinephrine

May 26, 2005, 02:43 PM

Illusion 12
Expertise 8+1
Wilderness Survival 8+1
Beastmastery 7+2+1

Tiger's Fury
Illusionary Weapons
Apply Poison
Lightning Reflexes?
Throw Dirt
Illusion of Haste (Stormchaser?)
Sympathetic Visage
Conjure Phantasm?

10 in BM gets the 9 second duration, 9 in expertise drops the cost to 6 for the tiger's fury and to 10 for apply poison, making them more affordable, plus it lets one pick up Throw Dirt for vs Warriors and Lightning Reflexes, allowing you to gain a 75% block rate while maintaining the 33% increased attack rate - the poison duration is still respectable at a 9 Wilderness. Still playing with the idea - maybe Lighning reflexes isn't what I want. You can easlily tweak a few skills to fit it better to something. Take a fast sword, surprise everyone.

The Red Knight

May 26, 2005, 04:48 PM

I like whirling over light reflex honestly, dodge alot longer so you can troll and maybe deal some damage if some ranger is shooting you while w/mo tries for his life to hit you ;b

Spark

May 27, 2005, 12:52 AM

Epinephrine

May 27, 2005, 09:10 AM

In the Shock Sniper build, why doesn't it use Dual Shot instead of Hunter's Shot? First off, you are firing two arrows at -25%, so 150% normal arrow damage. If you have Read the Wind (+9?), Favorable Winds (+6), and Conjure Lightning (+11), then the benefit of firing an extra arrow is:

+50% Arrow Damage
+26 Damage

vs

+13
Bleeding if they were moving

While bleeding is a very good condition, it is a DOT and doesn't fit in with the rest of the build which is very bursty, which makes me think that Dual Shot would be the better choice.

Cost? Hunter's Shot is 5 energy for +13 damage; Dual Shot is 10 energy for +50% and the extra conjure. With a bow dealing 15-28 that's 21.5 average damage, so 50% of it is 10.75 extra damage plus the extra conjure damage, so you are paying 5 extra energy for the (13 conjure damage-2.25 damage difference). Not very cost effective.

1/2_Extreme

May 28, 2005, 06:46 PM

CtrlAltDel

Jun 03, 2005, 12:57 PM

My R/E has been doing well in PvE, but what is a good R/E, or even a good Ranger build for PvP?

My Elem, has primarily been a fire elem, due to the fact that getting to some of the lightning spells I want takes a little longer.

Would a R/Me be a better PvP build?

piercehead

Jun 03, 2005, 01:41 PM

Cost? Hunter's Shot is 5 energy for +13 damage; Dual Shot is 10 energy for +50% and the extra conjure. With a bow dealing 15-28 that's 21.5 average damage, so 50% of it is 10.75 extra damage plus the extra conjure damage, so you are paying 5 extra energy for the (13 conjure damage-2.25 damage difference). Not very cost effective.
But Winds would apply to the extra arrow too though? And surely the build has at least some points in Expertise?!?! So it's more like 2 or 3 points energy extra.

Epinephrine

Jun 03, 2005, 02:45 PM

But Winds would apply to the extra arrow too though? And surely the build has at least some points in Expertise?!?! So it's more like 2 or 3 points energy extra.

Geez, so throw in a reduction like an absorption rune, or shielding hands. Now the linear reduction affects the smaller damage and separate damage sources from the dual arrows more. a superior absorption rune subtracts 3 damage from each arrow, as well as from each of the conjure damages, while it only subtracts 3 damage total from the hunter's shot, that's a 9 damage differential to the hunter's shot. Shielding hands at a decent level will completely eliminate the fire damage from a conjure and essentially all the damage from the dual shot arrows, while the single large hit from the Hunter's shot will get damage through. We can argue little points about how it interacts with the various skills, or we can agree that the hunters shot is probably more energy efficient and leave it at that.

YCantUDie

Jun 05, 2005, 01:47 AM

i just read in that trading forum something about an eternal bow...i think it was poisoners bow of fortitude +28 health, 15-28 damage, and +13% when attacking hexed foes....just wondering is there something special about an eternal bow besides the grip?

PippinTook

Jun 05, 2005, 02:12 PM

Would this build work?

R/E

13 Expertise (Hunters Mask & +2 Rune)
11 Marksmanship (+1 Rune)
10 Air Magic
6 Wilderness Survival (+1 Rune)

Barrage
Troll Ungent OR Healing Springs
Distracting Shot
Apply Poison
Pin Down
Savage Shot
Enervating Charge OR Gale
Conjure Lightning

demo182

Jun 07, 2005, 10:28 PM

Hi I'm looking for someone to give me a good SetUp for Ranger/Mesmer Thank You!!!!(waiting for u Weezer Blue :)). Pls dont flame me that there's one at the beginning cuz i asked weezer n he said that one is out of date (dont use it).

Lo0sE

Jun 08, 2005, 08:37 PM

just to clarify from the beginning-no i have not read any other page in ranger basics thread b/c i am lazy

i have found the best build for pvp to be a r/mo and be pure interrupter ranger and ignore monk ones except vengeance(rez). This is the only way to be really effective(and get a group other than guild) in HoH with all the spike groups running around these days

To pippintook-I find using major runes(+2 to skills) is a waste, you should use superiors. You get +2 for -50, only 1 more skill point for -50hp, while u could use a superior you get 2 more skill points for only another -75hp.So another skill point for -25hp, and when skill is at 11 or 12 dumping another point into it is costly. Also is that build for pvp or pve?

YCantUDie-eternal bows have no special qualities over other bows other than the uber look

Lo0sE

Jun 08, 2005, 08:45 PM

just looking for comments on my build, u can go all out i dont care

expertise 11(+1 rune)
markmenship 12(+1rune and hat)
wilderness survival 14(+3 rune)

pvp bar:
poisen arrow
distracting shot
savage shot
frozen soil(only use if group oks it, or when monks down on other team and most of my team is alive+monks)
choking gas
troll unguent
lightning reflexes
vengeance(until the fix glitch)

pve bar:
poisen arrow
penetrating attack
distracting shot
throw dirt or hunters attack
ignite arrows
troll unguent
dust trap or barbed trap
vengeance

Traps

Jun 09, 2005, 11:18 PM

looking for help on my R/Mo build

right now my 19 R/Mo is not the best thing ive ever playen with so far.
right now i currently have the full druid set and im looking for a better bow.

I lost hope in my ranger. there not the best things in pvp(arena) and im looking for some help considering that im getting owed by warriors,Elemtalists, and basicly every other class.

if anyone has some spare builds that they have dealing with R/Mo's Please Pm me. I really want to go back to my ranger considering hes such a high level.(very close to 20)

even if u have a pure ranger PvP build id be more than happy to try it out.

Lo0sE

Jun 10, 2005, 12:24 AM

one above works great, just u have to be fast and constantly switch targets and make sure to interrupt and distract monks on heals such as healing breeze and ele's on lightning orb

u also have to spread the poisen with poisen arrow, get that -4 hp degen on all enemies

also take out vengeance because they fixed glitch and put up watever rez u want

Traps

Jun 11, 2005, 01:07 AM

heres another question. whats the best type of pvp ranger build considering the secondary skill..IE mesmer warrior monk or elementalist? the best type of ranger to invest in Ie wilderness survival, beastmastery etc etc..

ive seen some crazy builds arounds.

--Im also having trouble dealing damage.

Lo0sE

Jun 11, 2005, 01:31 PM

rangers were nerfed in beta b/c they did to much damage and the admins wanted to make the ranger class a support class

the best secondary would be mesmer or monk, mesmer for the energy taps, so the ranger can have more other than debilating shot, see the the thread posted about r/me in campfire, has a detailed account on this choice. monk for rez and heals, but im a monk secondary and i only use it for rez, nothing else, no points into any monk skills

also i edited my skill bar for to:
poisen arrow
distracting shot
hunters shot(bleed + poisen=-7hp degen)
frozen soil
choking gas
troll unguent
lightning reflexes or whirling defense
light of dwayna or rebirth

triorph

Jun 13, 2005, 05:52 AM

Here is my monk, level 20 R/Me with:

13 marksmanship (major rune + hunter's mask)
9 wilderness survivival (minor rune)
10 expertise (minor rune)

(this is for pve)

Hunter's shot (usually what i replace with SoC)
Distracting shot
Penetrating shot
Melandru's arrows (or apply poison, depends on what other people in group are using and whether i'm using SoC or not)
Troll Unguent
Lightning Reflexes
Whirling Defense
Res signet

heh, that makes my secondary mesmer pretty much obsolete for the time being, perhaps that will change once i've done those +30 attribute points quests. Anyway just looking for some general feedback. I've had quite a few nice compliments about saving the group or being a good tank with this strat.

Traps

Jun 14, 2005, 09:52 AM

loose ive been using ur build and i have to tip my hat to you.
im going to move someskills around
pvp
-poison arrow
-distracting shot
-Savage shot
-Frozen ground.(anti monk and no monkgroups. ask group before us every time)
-troll urgent
-lightning reflexes
-rebirth or light of dawyna(too much mana)

PvE
-poison arrow
-penetrating shot
-distracting shot
-throw dirt
-ignite arrows
-troll urgent
-barbed or dust trap(dust trap is 25 mana, less damage and a lower effect time)
-rebirth or light.

this is what u currently have now(or before) but im still testing it and its been great so far. im looking for more of a shot then another type of wilderness skill.

burianek

Jun 14, 2005, 11:30 AM

You guys really need to consider Tiger's fury.
Even with a very low beastmastery (either 3 or 4, I can't remember), you can get the duration up to 7 sec, and with a 10 sec recharge, that means you can have it on most of the time. There's simply no subsitute for almost continual 33% faster attacks.
I can't think of a reason not to have it unless you're planning a pure distraction / conditioner p.i.t.a. build that is not a dmg dealer (except dot) whatsoever.
Cheers.

Kurow

Jun 14, 2005, 06:20 PM

I was planning on making some sort of Bleeding/Poison build on my R/W, but it doesnt look like anyone uses both swords and bows... is this a bad idea then?

Kurow

Jun 14, 2005, 06:59 PM

Recently ive decided to dtich the sword, as i can find abilities with bleeding independent of warrior abilites. I was thinking of using this skill set:
Poison Arrow
Melandru's Arrows
Disciplined Stance
Hunter's Shot
Concussion Shot
Healing Spring
Troll Unguent
Revive Signet

Any revisions?

Traps

Jun 14, 2005, 09:56 PM

u cant have more than more elite skill in ur action bar.
a ranger warrior should try sever artry and apply poison.
thats 7bars of Health dejen

id say drop the poison arrows or Melandru's Arrows and start from there.

Casonetto

Jun 14, 2005, 10:27 PM

Just curious, what do you guys recommend as a superior ranger build for playing with a buddy and maybe arena stuff? I would like to specialize in bow and traps. Thanks for any help.

Kurow

Jun 14, 2005, 10:32 PM

Wait... so i should go for bow and sword? Cuz you can use apply poison on swords... can you?

Seth Oriath

Jun 14, 2005, 10:40 PM

Yes, Apply Poison works on any weapon you wield. Other preparations don't, IIRC. I know Kindle Arrows doesn't.

If you want to specialize in bows and traps, Casonetto, you'll need a high Marksmanship and a high Wilderness Survival. Sometimes I think that Wilderness Survival is one of the most overlooked attributes in the game. But I digress.

Casonetto

Jun 14, 2005, 10:44 PM

Cool, I will give it a whirl. What would be a fine second profession for that?

Kurow

Jun 14, 2005, 11:01 PM

Ok, decided to go with just a sword, cuz melee rangers are the hotness. So now ive got:

Sever Artery
Gash
Savage Slash*
Apply Poison
Deadly Reposte*//Shields Up!*
Gladiator's Defense
Troll Unguent
Resurrect Signet

*-Not sure, need suggestions

And with gladiator's defense, has anyone found it yet? Cuz theres no picture on the skills page.

Seth Oriath

Jun 14, 2005, 11:51 PM

Cool, I will give it a whirl. What would be a fine second profession for that?

Well, I use Mesmer, but that's because I'm a degen kinda guy ;)

The only one I really wouldn't recommend would be warrior, because most warrior skills pertain to the weapon used (and since you're wanting to use bows, that would negate most of the skills). The ones that don't are kinda small in number when you consider you only have the tactics attribute left to work from. Most of those are meant for defense, too. So, if you were going for defense, warrior might work out.

You could go a number of different ways with that. Like I was saying in another thread, it's your playstyle that you need to consider, not what you read everybody else recommend. See above: I even convinced myself that there is use for a warrior after all, depending if you wanted to play a defensive playstyle. I used to be a warrior secondary, but never used it. I didn't play that way.

That's the great thing about this game; you can pretty much do anything with your characters. It's all up to how you want to play it.

And Kurow, I believe Gladiator's Defense is an elite skill that you get from Dragon's Lair.

Traps

Jun 15, 2005, 10:10 AM

Build looks good Kurow.

i know much about rangers but im not so sure on how the warriros skills work.
if ur a ranger/warriro try to focous more on the ranger side of ur characratcer.
Put POINTS INTO EXPERTISE!!!! it lowers the mana cost of ranger AND warrior skills!

try to put alot of points into experetise and wilderness survival if ur looking for a close combat ranger.

Davin Kabak

Jun 15, 2005, 11:41 AM

I play an Ascended R/W (since WPE), since before R/Ws were 'cool' or 'popular'. IN fact, we were shunned.

Glad to see everyone finally discovering this GREAT build! :D

I was planning on making some sort of Bleeding/Poison build on my R/W, but it doesnt look like anyone uses both swords and bows... is this a bad idea then?

I have done this, and it can be quite effective, if pulled off properly. It is NOT easy, however. Generally speaking, you have four different sets of skills you can use, depending on the situation. Now you won't be changing your Attribute skills intensely unless you get lots of XP, so you need to choose what your strategy will be FIRST.

Generally, when I am not specializing in all-bow or all-sword, I will split the two about 60/40 %. 60 Sword, 40 bow.

You won't have high marksmanship, so bows really lose out on killing power, moreso than a sword does. What you'll want marksmanship for, is to make sure you dont miss your targets. This is the major fault of all-swordsmanship melee rangers. They lose all those great Bow skills, and the advantage of ranged combat.

The base strategy with a 60/40 character, is to use your bow to put conditions down on your intended target. Bleeding. Poison. Fire. Interrupt. Crippled. Etc. Since you can do this at range, you dont take damage while frustrating your enemy. Once your enemy is poisoned, bleeding, and crippled, he is at a SEVERE disadvantage, as he cannot retaliate. This also will usually draw that enemy to want to attack you, since you are the one causing them all this frustration. You then can CHOOSE when to engage him, when the conditions are most favorable to you. Make them chase you away from their group. If they go back to other targets, keep frustrating them. Eventually they'll break away. When they do, you then can pounce them with suprise melee damage by pinning them down, so they think you will run. Then, spring the trap, and pounce them with suprise melee damage.

Once you engage the target, you will need the extra boost in Swordsmanship, to put down killing power on the enemy. Since you will be trading blows, it is critical that you make him as weak as you can before you get into melee range. You will not be able to out-damage your opponent, usually, so you must kill them quickly. Keep the bleeding and poison going. With -7 Degeneration, if he is not being ganged by monks, it will negate any healing they may have for themselves. This tips the scales in your favor,

In this case, I suggest you put as many points as possible into Wilderness Survival, for the advantage it gives you in your healing skills. Troll Unguent and Healing Spring is a powerful combo, especially with lvl 12 Wilderness. Much more powerful than Heal Signet, etc. This will give you a huge advantage. When splitting 60/40, you will NOT be able to outdamage your opponent, so you must out-last them. That means lots and lots of healing for yourself. You won't have monk skills, and by this time you're probably 1 on 1 with your target, if you've manipulated them properly. Out of range of their monks, means out of range of yours too. This is where Rangers are deadly, because they have superior survivability. Don't waste time with evasion skills, they are too slow to recharge. Just out-heal your enemy. WIth maxed wilderness survival, you can potentially raise your own HP up to 3 times faster than the average warrior, and on a par with the best self-healing monk. all WHILE dealing damage and using skills while your heal-over-time skills take care of your HP.

I won't be more specific than this. I've already released enough secrets, but hopefully this gives you something to think about. Remember: your best ally is a good strategy. You are a jack of all trades. Use that flexibility to keep your opponent off-balance, and guessing about your next move. If you are not predictable, they won't be able to prepare themselves for your next move :)

Epinephrine

Jun 15, 2005, 12:32 PM

Bunch of stuff...

Right. That looks really bad - "Out heal" as the way to winning? Do you play against people who allow you to get off the Troll's Unguent or Healing Spring? A 3 second activation and it isn't getting stopped?

Don't waste time with evasion? Implying that bleeding and poison and cripple will make a warrior helpless? I'm sorry, I don't buy it. He'll just cripple you right back, bleed you right back, and heal faster than you can with his healing abilities.

Explain more if you will, but otherwise I'd say if you are trying to "outlast" an enemy you'll be destroyed by any warrior with a disrupting skill, and trounced in the "stay alive" areas by their/Mo abilities. Frankly, your statement

What you'll want marksmanship for, is to make sure you dont miss your targets

pretty much convinces me that you know little about the game.

Davin Kabak

Jun 15, 2005, 01:28 PM

I am speaking from personal experience, and I have extensive experience in this game.

As I stated, I've played this build probably longer than 95% of the people who have been playing R/W. (There may be a few players before me...but I doubt very many.)

The truth is, I did not say exactly HOW I do this. There's a few tricks I know that makes this quite viable, and I prefer to keep a few secrets and tricks to myself. As I stated above, this is DIFFICULT to do. I did not say it was easy, quite the opposite. It involves very precise timing to make it work, or you will indeed be destroyed.

And yes, Troll Unguent does have a drawback, as does Healing Spring. They ARE interruptable.

The point is that a skilled enough player can make it happen. The simple fact is, though, that I very rarely lose a 1 on 1 fight with a Warrior, using the build I described.

Do not discount the effect this strategy can have.

If you are as experienced in this game as you imply, you know that ANY strategy and ANY build in this game has some kind of counter that can render it completely ineffective. That isn't the point of these discussions. The question was whether or not such a build is effective, and I am answering that question.

"Yes it is."

That doesnt mean your opponent will KNOW how to counter your tactic, or even have the necessary skills equipped. Part of being a good Ranger, or player for that matter, is picking your targets wisely, and timing your attacks to make them most effective. Everyone knows this, and it is implied.

Epinephrine

Jun 15, 2005, 02:05 PM

The truth is, I did not say exactly HOW I do this.

That kind of thing makes me suspicious, as I am sure you understand.

And yes, Troll Unguent does have a drawback, as does Healing Spring. They ARE interruptable.

Very much so - then again, I like interrupting folks, so I always have an interrupt on my bar if possible, whether it's a knockdown, a memser spell or a distracting shot.

If you are as experienced in this game as you imply, you know that ANY strategy and ANY build in this game has some kind of counter that can render it completely ineffective. That isn't the point of these discussions. The question was whether or not such a build is effective, and I am answering that question.

I don't see it as an answer really, beyond the opinion "Yes it is." You provide only vague assertions. I will agree that R/W can be played well - I had one myself, though I chose to go melee only as I deemed it too much of a hit on my effectiveness to include a bow. I will also agree that there are always counters to a build, and that it would be foolish to try to plan around all of them, but planning around staples of PvP makes sense - warriors should all carry a snare or speed buff and an interrrupt attack.

My real objection comes from the way you say your build succeeds, which sounds more like a description of how to fail. Choosing to bring both swordmanship and marksmanship along, advising that your goal is to outlast the opponent through slow healing skills, one of which is bound to an area, advising against stances for defense, suggesting that a warrior is helpless when at -7 degen and so on all seem like bad/misinformed ideas - the warriors I can think of don't really mind a bit of degeneration. I don't understand at all why you say that Marksmanship will keep you from missing; only one ranger attack that I can think of has a miss rate contingent on skill level, and it's based on expertise. Given that I disagree with most of the points raised, you either have a very interesting approach that would be valuable to share or have been lucky in your conflicts with a less optimal build/strategy. Since you stated that Marksmanship improves your chance to hit (a fallacy, to my knowledge), I assumed that you don't know what you are talking about. You may well have a good, successful build, but it goes against my instincts for a ranger.

Blackace

Jun 15, 2005, 02:38 PM

Well being that Marksmanship has no effect on bow accuracy I doubt he has any credible experience in the game.

And R/W is a horrible PvP build.

Davin Kabak

Jun 15, 2005, 02:54 PM

Oddly enough, I have no trouble playing a R/W in PvP. Granted, I do not play balanced Sword/Bow in PvP very often, but when I do, I still don't have much of a problem.

Marksmanship by itself does not do much, when firing normal arrows, and in which case you'd be right, it makes no sense to use it. However, in my example, you would not be using normal arrows, but Skills based on Marksmanship, for a particular effect. Hunter Shot, for bleeding, for example. Penetrating Shot for armor penetration. Etc. These are skills that will work well in the stated example.

The fact that you write off the build, tells me you have no experience playing that build, or the build does not suit your style of play. In either case, you have no frame of reference to help this person with their inquiry.

I would love to hear why you think R/W is not a good PvP build. Please be very specific with your examples, and I will respond to them.

tmtracy

Jun 15, 2005, 03:39 PM

I'm happy with the way my build is thus far...

I'm a level 20 R/Mo wielding a 15-28 Zealous Storm Bow of Fortitude.

Since I am not in front of the game at the moment, my information might be a little off, but I think neverything goes as follows:

Stats:
Expertise 10 + 1 + 3
Marks 10 + 3
Wilderness 8 +1
Beast 6 + 1

And I put extra points in Healing.... I still have apx 15 poitns left since I haven't done the extra 15 point quest as of now. I will be putting those in beast to boost up the tiger fury and put the extra in health. If something doesnt add up, sorry...heh, I'm doing this from memory.

My skills usually look like:

Kindle Arrows
Tiger Fury
Poison Arrow [e]
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot
Double Shot/Throw Dirt/Interupt Shot (not sure the exact name)
Interupt Shot/Throw Dirt/Healing Breeze
Double Shot/Interupt Shot/Rebirth

I change the last three depending on the situation. If there is a hench monk I usually take rebirth and breeze. Otherwise I usually let the monk heal me...Depending on the mission I might take rebirth, I usally do unless its a short/easy mission.
Seems to work nice so far. I might start using some traps more.

Traps

Jun 15, 2005, 07:21 PM

Blackace

Jun 15, 2005, 09:13 PM

Oddly enough, I have no trouble playing a R/W in PvP. Granted, I do not play balanced Sword/Bow in PvP very often, but when I do, I still don't have much of a problem.

Doesn't matter. When you start beating good players with R/W builds and can actually put forth a good argument as to why it works then maybe it will look more credible.

Marksmanship by itself does not do much, when firing normal arrows, and in which case you'd be right, it makes no sense to use it. However, in my example, you would not be using normal arrows, but Skills based on Marksmanship, for a particular effect. Hunter Shot, for bleeding, for example. Penetrating Shot for armor penetration. Etc. These are skills that will work well in the stated example.

All Marks does is increase the damage on these skills, not the accuracy. So you're still wrong. It does the same thing for normal arrows also.

The fact that you write off the build, tells me you have no experience playing that build, or the build does not suit your style of play. In either case, you have no frame of reference to help this person with their inquiry.

Until you actually post some real evidence of the build doing well, or some numbers to back your stuff up it's all BS.

I would love to hear why you think R/W is not a good PvP build. Please be very specific with your examples, and I will respond to them.

First and foremost what is the purpose for going R/W over W/x?

You're DPS is going to suffer hard. You dont have the Strength bonus, or the speed buff of Sprint which offers way more flexibility than the Ranger speed buffs with the exception of 1.

Secondly, you dont have the physical bonus to armor. You do get better elemental protection, which I guess is something of a plus.

You cant play around with attributes higher than 12. This goes back to the first point, and the fact that you must stretch a weapon mastery to 12 to leave yourself to 12/10/8 or 12/12/3 builds without runes. You dont hit as hard as a Warrior.

Finally, you're getting the benefits of Expertise for some of the Warrior skills which mostly cost-5 or 10 energy. What's the point of playing with Expertise for an adrenal based offense?

When you post some numbers, some proof, or can actually make a strong argument for the horrible R/W builds then maybe this topic wont be a joke.

Traps

Jun 15, 2005, 11:43 PM

my curent pve build (r/mo)

barrage
penetrating shot
distracting shot
throw dirt
lightining reflexes
troll urgent
barbed trap
rebirth

marksmenship-12(face and rune)
expersise-11 (one rune)
wilderness-13(3 runes)

build great, its been working for me.

tmtracy

Jun 16, 2005, 04:51 AM

my sugestion tmtracy with is R/Mo is..

-dump all healing points. add more to bMastery or Wilderness(depends on type of ranger)

i want to know what type of ranger is more affective in pvp a wilderness ranger or Bmastery?

and ur skills spread looks good.

I just use the remaining points...so its like two... lol, they need to go somewhere. =p I will have beast up to 9 after my next at point quest...but for now its at 7.

Epinephrine

Jun 16, 2005, 08:49 AM

... When you start beating good players with R/W builds and can actually put forth a good argument as to why it works then maybe it will look more credible....

What he said. Anyone can succeed vs lousy foes, that's the joy of skill based systems - if your foes are bad enough you can make any build work.

Blackace has highlit the advantages an R/W might have: Expertise to lower costs, but most warrior builds use adrenaline, so you need to build around energy use; elemental damage armour, which can be handy, if you build around it/hit the right enemies, bigger energy pool (but again, only useful if you are using energy a lot).

If you aren't using expertise you are wasting a ranger's most valuable attribute, and most of the point of being a ranger. You already mentioned using Wilderness Survival and Marksmanship, and since you said swordsmanship as well that's 4 attributes so far, not looking good as I'd guess you want at least 9 expertise after runes, so an 8 there probably, you said to max the wilderness, so you have 12 there, that leaves an 8 and a 7 or so for your sword and bow. Doesn't sound strong enough for PvP to me.

piercehead

Jun 16, 2005, 02:48 PM

marksmenship-12(face and rune)
expersise-11 (one rune)
wilderness-13(3 runes)

Sorry to be picky, for WS 13(3 runes) do you mean you're using a superior WS rune?

Corwin

Jun 16, 2005, 02:53 PM

In my experience, R/W is mostly good for PvE. You're pretty self-sufficient, although you don't even need the warrior secondary for that, honestly.

The only warrior skill I have on my skill bar right now is Frenzy - and that's only useful because I don't have Tiger's Fury yet. Even then, I can only use Frenzy when I'm not directly under attack.

Really, the only reason I'm still running this character is because I'm having fun soloing PvE. It was my first character, created before I knew what I was doing, and I'm sentimentally attached to him ;)

My original idea was to fight from range, but be able to fight in melee when the baddies came to me, but it doesn't really work out that way. Currently, I load up on bow skills and stay as far from melee as I can.

I don't think I'd try PvP with this character - the only thing going for you would be that you'd get ignored, mostly, but you really wouldn't be helping your team much either (except as a distraction).

Davin Kabak

Jun 16, 2005, 03:09 PM

I'll just throw my build on here, and you can mull it over a while.
Yes, it has Runes, Good weapons, Good armor, etc. I dont use PvP prebuilds.

Mind you, this build changes at least every day, to fit the particular situation. This is just a snapshot of a 'normal state'.

Marksmanship: 12 (10, +1 mask, +1 Rune)
Wilderness: 12 (11, +1 Rune)
Expertise: 8 (5, +1 pants, +2 Rune)
Misc. points go into Swordmanship first, then others as situation warrants.

Bow: Storm Bow (Max -2) +11%/Ench, Poisoner's String, Grip of Fortitude
Sword: Wingblade, (Max) +10%/HP>50%, Lengthen Bleeding, Pommel of Fortitude
Shield: Canthan Targe

Bow-only Skillset:
Poison Shot
Determined Shot (or Pin Down)
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot
Kindle Arrows
Healing Spring
Troll Unguent
Res Signet

Bow-weighted Balanced Skillset:
Determined Shot (or Pin Down)
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot
Apply Poison
Sever Artery
Final Thrust
Troll Unguent
Res Signet

Sword-weighted Balanced Skillset:
Hunter Shot
Penetrating Shot (Or Pin-Down)
Apply Poison
Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Troll Unguent
Res Signet (Or Pin-Down)

Sword-Heavy Skillset:
Pin-Down
Apply Poison
Seeking Blade
Sever Artery
Gash
Final Thrust
Troll Unguent
Res Signet (or Savage Slash)

I like to keep the skills simple. I prefer cheap, fast skills, over slow powerful skills. With proper timing and order of skill-usage, skills can be chained almost indefinitely, with only maybe 10-15 seconds of cooldown after a minute or two of heavy fighting.

I will not put actual damage amounts here, because they vary. The timing and picking of your targe is more critical to success or failure than whether damage is X points or Y points.

For killing warriors:
1) Prep Poison before engaging.
2) Open with Hunter's when closing distance. -3 Bleeding, -4 Poison. Pin down works well here as well.
3) Penetrating attack to hit for larger damage. By now, they are very close.
4) Determined or Hunter to put extra damage as they hit melee range and start attacking.
5a) If the target is still bleeding, hit with Bow skills until you are near 10% energy. The moment you are down to 10% energy, or the target stops bleeding, switch to Sword and go to 5b.
5b) Adrenaline is at Sever Artery levels or higher, hit with Sever Artery. Continuing their -7 Degen. Use Gash if you have it.
6) By now, they've hit you with Sever Artery. Around 75% health at this point, and dropping. Troll Unguent to get +6 Regen (+9-3)
7) While health is going up, switch to Bow. Energy has recharged near full. Hit with Penetrating, then Hunter, then Determined, then Penetrating again. 8 seconds' worth. Troll Unguent is now gone. Try to last long enough for them to use big hits on you, like Gash. Try to time your Penetrating to hit while they are using Heal Signet, as you deal DOUBLE damage.
8) Troll Unguent to keep up the Regen, Probably between +4 and +8, depending on your condition. If timed right, they've already used big hits, and you now are gaining health, while they are depleted.
9) Energy is recharging still, so hit with Penetrating for damage. Now reapply poison which is probably gone.
10) Troll is still active, Adrenaline is up to moderate to high level, and now you have poison. Hit with Sever Artery, then Gash (if equipped). Swap back to the bow, Hit with Penetrating, Hunter, Determined, and repeat. Piling up quick +dmg skills after applying -7 Degen is devastating. If you have done this right, by now, the enemy is depleted and will try to retreat.

If they do, you shoot them dead.

This DOES depend on whether or not they interrupt your Troll Unguent. If they do, best to use Pin-Down to retreat, and then heal. There is always the chance you can die in this situation.

As far as Balanced Sword/Bow attribute levels.... It CAN be done, but it is not so simple. You don't really have killing power outright (no balanced character of any kind will), so much as stopping power. You stop an enemy, and tie them into combat. Then you can use combined killing power of other teammates to bring them down.

Falconer

Jun 16, 2005, 08:10 PM

I've been avoiding this thread... but it clearly demonstrates why I told some of the guru's why these class threads should be locked to certain posters so that they become a FAQ of sorts. Something where people could cut/paste tidbits out of other threads with gems in them rather than having to wade through 9 pages now of people arguing why their ideas work.

Davin, the problem with your build is it doesn't leverage ANY of the rangers strengths. It's not a strong build in the arena, the tombs, PvP, or even PvE. As you state yourself you are reliant on your teammates to augment your damage. But as a Ra/W your first focus is to be a primary damage dealer maybe... or to inflict conditions en masse, such as a trapper. Furthermore, these builds smack of mid-level arena as their lack of any helpfull elites really shows. You should cut your losses now and stop defending this, or create an independant thread, rather than adding more chaff to an already long thread with a lot of soso info.

Now my experience with Ra/W's.
The point of a Ra/W is that the class is what I like to term 'berserker' or 'swashbuckler'. (as in the old viking guys who'd go into battle raging and naked, or the mythical whirling dervish or Erol Flynn types who make decent tanks). Ranger armor isn't quite warrior armor but it's still pretty damned good (86 with a shield is on par with a hammer warrior). Also you traded physical armor for elemental armor, which is an arguable strength given the way that spike builds don't hesitate to target warriors with their 'weak' armor. But all in all.. in the current environment I think ranger vs. warrior armor isn't a clear win for either as best. And both are excellent picks.

Now for the real strength... your druids armor has larger reserves than a warrior primary. The real killer is you have 50% BETTER energy regen than a warrior primary. Then you've traded your strength AP and attack skills for expertise giving you a good 40 to 60% effective cost reduction on your already cheap warrior skills. If you follow this with a zealous axe or sword you become the original energizer bunny of melee combat. (literally... 13expertise, attack goes down 2 cost, +1 for the zealous... -1 net loss... which is easily offset by the natural energy regen). Properly done, no less than 75% of your melee attacks should be non-skill based attacks with a hefty +dam. With a few well picked adrenal skills to augment your energy attacks such as cleave, or finishing blow, or galrath slash... you can actually make MORE energy than you're spending! (energy denial builds worst nightmare)

The other advantage is in the battle of the attack speed buffs... tigers fury is the clear hands down winner... 7s at 4 beastmastery. Compare to flurry at 8s with it's reduced damage per swing, and to frenzy with it's take double damage when hit drawback.

To anyone playing the class... pick a single weapon and get good at it. Bows have nice range yes... but really closure times and rates in GW are such that you'll only get 2-4 shots off before things are in your face. It's not worth the loss of melee power if you're after melee range... similarly losing ranged power if that's your intended zone will hurt you even at point blank range.

For a ranged Ra/W... the only skills of note I've seen are some of the team tactics buffs such as watch yourself... (effective especially if your monks or other casters are near you... to give them those extra 20 points of armor). I've really seen VERY few reasons for a ranged bow ranger to take a warrior secondary as there's very little there to actually buff or which doesn't hinder you. The stances are largely inferior to the expertise or survival stances. It's mostly for the shouts.

Aranador

Jun 16, 2005, 09:24 PM

I play Ranger Warrior.

I defeat warriors by killing them faster than they kill me. Alas I am only halfg way through the game, so when I come across a twinked out end game armour/weapon carrying warrior - it becomes dicey as to who will win.

Anyway - I win because every swing I make can be a special attack with lots of +damage. I can spam energy using attacks and adrenal skills adnausium. My DPS is much higher, and so I overwhelm them. My pet does a fair share of the work too

Its usually other rangers that give me the greatest trouble. And then necromancers. So I like to suddenly pounce on them and take off a ton of their HP and get them panicing and then dying. No - I cant solo whole teams of baddies, but I can put someone in a world of hurt.

I cant wait till I can get some of the skills from the later half of the game

Kishin

Jun 16, 2005, 11:56 PM

I almost don't know where to begin.

You're running a shield without Tactics or Strength? How good of a shield is it?

Your Swordsmanship is algo going to be maxed out at 8, and I fail to see how your pants give +1 expertise without a rune unless I've missed some strange collector. Your Expertise is low, and your energy will suffer for it. You're running Determined Shot for damage for reasons I can't even fathom, and using Seeking Blade, whose only benefit comes from people dodging your attacks. You have no attack speed buff, which is ridiculous to leave out of a R/W build, especially since Tiger's Fury is amazing. You're trying in vain to use Troll unguent as a damage sponge instead, which it is terrible for, and in all likelihood if you're trading blows with a Warrior, he can just Savage Slash/Disrupting Chop it before you ever get its miserable 3 second activation time off. (You should be protecting yourself with something like Whirling Defense or Throw Dirt) You're not exploiting any good elites from either of your professions, and overall your build is disorganized and unfocused. You're splitting attention between two styles of combat, and you're not outputting any significant damage whatsoever. Most likely you will be ignored in any serious pvp battle and be killed last, or, if you try to go head up with a halfway decent warrior in something like random arena, you will be pummeled mercilessly. We won't even get into how condition removal can mess with your degen plans, although Apply Poison makes for nearly a constant reset of the poison (Then again, so does Poison Arrow effectively), a monk can spam Mend Ailment/Condition and will not only halt your poison, but heal who you're poisoning, basically cutting the only offensive leg your build has to stand on right out from under you.

As far as advice goes, I think Falconer covered it pretty nicely. Pick a weapon focus (preferably melee), rely on good Expertise to fuel spammable energy based skills, buff your attack speed with Tiger's Fury/Frenzy, and so on.

And for god's sake, get rid of Troll Unguent. People need to stop clinging to their self heals and learn that a Monk can keep you alive way better than you can ever hope to keep yourself alive.

Traps

Jun 17, 2005, 12:21 AM

Sorry to be picky, for WS 13(3 runes) do you mean you're using a superior WS rune?

im poor at the moment so its all minors

Davin Kabak

Jun 17, 2005, 08:39 AM

Well, where to begin....

Ok, about the shield...
It's a Canthan Targe, which is what I got from my Beta Preorder.
Don't know it's stats, or what it's good for?
Look it up and find out.

About the Leggings...I was wrong. It's not +1 Expertise, but +1 Energy and +1 Energy Regen. I checked on my Ranger. -=shrugs=- I said I was going from memory.

The Balanced swordsmanship build...
The unfocused balanced build is less for PvP than PvE. Overall it is less effective, if your team lacks Warriors for tanking. It is good for a quick-response character, but its not going to do any one particular thing very well, sacrificing real killing power, for flexibility in reacting to new situations.

Tiger Fury/Frenzy...
Not bad skills, but I find that for my particular method, they don't work well. I would rather have an additional +Dmg skill that I can spam, rather than a skill that gives me a temporary boost, then takes a while to reacharge. I will touch on this later.

Self Heals...
As far as self-heals, a Ranger is meant to be more self-sufficent than other classes. I let Monks heal me fine, but I have had MANY monks tell me that they appreciate the fact they don't have to worry about me as much as the other players. If I can take care of all but the most critical healing myself, that leaves more mana and time for the Monk to heal other people. Despite what you might think it IS one of the major strengths of the Ranger class.

I will concede one point...Rangers are meant to use the Bow. Melee is really only secondary, and something to fall back on in close quarters, when your energy is depleted. That is how I use it anyway. Adrenaline skills are great to use, once your energy is gone, or you've been hit with disruptions that make your skills recharge slower (I.E. Distracting shot).

Basically...spam the bow till your energy is gone, then switch to sword...till energy and skill recharge is back. Then switch back to Bow. Depending on the situation, Pin Down works for getting back out to range, so you can stay out of direct contact.

For most of my HoH runs, I run the All-Bow setup above, and reconfig my specs to full Expertise. One may ask..."why go Warrior Secondary then, instead of another class?"

Honestly, because once a Ranger reaches his/her full potential, they rarely need ANY skills from another class, with one, possibly two exceptions on their skill bar. Usually, I am running only Ranger skills, for the biggest/toughest battles.

The reason why I use Determined Shot for damage.... its CHEAP. 5 Energy. With high expertise, this is reduced to 3 or so. Thats made up in the time it takes to make the shot. Slow recharge means it is not a spammed skill. It's a filler skill, for when Hunter and Penetrating are unavailable. Usually this is due to bow reload time, and there are instances where you will draw a regular arrow instead of a skill arrow. IN this instance, you have to RE-Draw the skill arrow, if you havn't hit the skill button BEFORE the regular shot is drawn. That is why I use Determined shot, as a +dmg filler skill until the others are ready to be hit on my skillbar. ALSO, it has an added benefit.

If a target is moving in a way that I KNOW I will miss, and any long-recharge skills are still cycling, I will use Determined shot anyway. It recharges ALL your skills if you miss. And for only 5 energy. If it hits, it does moderately extra damage. Win-win situation. Works GREAT in combination with Incindiary arrows.

In essence, when running the all-bow setup, I am almost NEVER firing a 'regular' arrow. All Skills, all the time. That increased DoT with the bow, in the long run, and increases killing power. It's about Energy Management, more than direct damage.

I would rather use 10 bow skills with +X Dmg, than 4 skills with +2X dmg, in the same amount of time. Yes there's always going to be a counter, and Mend Ailment is my bane.....but remember this...

I am not going to be killing your Warriors first. I'm going to be killing your MONKS first. Monks can't mend ailment if they're DEAD. :D

P.S: Traps, just to let you know, Runes of the same type (I.E. Marksmanship, Expertise, etc) do not stack, so only the most powerful rune will give you the bonus. The others of that type will do nothing. (I don't think this has been changed in the last couple of builds...someone correct me if it has indeed been changed.)

Kishin

Jun 17, 2005, 12:33 PM

Well, where to begin....

I am not going to be killing your Warriors first. I'm going to be killing your MONKS first. Monks can't mend ailment if they're DEAD. :D

You're not going to be killing anything with that build. You do abysmal damage.
Like I said, you don't even have a damage speed buff. Monks will laugh at you. One cast of a 5 energy, 2-5 second recharge heal will heal more damage than you can do in twice that amount of time.

If you wanted a cheap spammable +dmg skill, why aren't you using Barrage, considering it costs 5 energy and recharges in 1 second?

Also, if you're running bow only in PvP, then that renders this whole argument about melee/bow hybrids being viable in PvP moot. Even respecced to bow though, your bow only skillset is horrible. You're carrying two heals, one of which is Troll Unguent, and the other is Healing Spring. Its great that you desire to help your team, but this isn't the way to do it. Contrary to what you may think, no monk in the HoH is really incredibly worried about you by virtue of the fact that you are a Ranger and they should know that by the time people get around to attacking you, its already too late. As for PvE, you're generally not getting attacked there either, and I'm willing to bet you'd be more helpful to your team without having something as self-interested as your own heals.

Self sufficiency in Guild Wars is born of vanity and people wanting to stand on their own rather than rely on their team. You don't need Troll Unguent except maybe in 4v4 (which counts approximately nothing except for getting the occasional kick). I'll keep saying it, and maybe you'll get it. You are not a priority target. You're not even secondary or perhaps even a tertiary. On an 8 man team, you can count on being attacked either 7th or 8th, at most 6th (In any other case your team has entirely too many warriors). By the time you need healing, its already too late.

You're not telling anyone anything new when you say a Ranger has hardly any need for skills from another profession since they have such a diverse smattering. But again, aren't we talking about Ra/Ws here? You also aren't saying anything new when you say you're almost never firing a regular arrow. That's the point of 14 Expertise.

We've ranged far off topic, anyway. The point is, your build, as far as Ra/Ws go, is very much sub par.

Davin Kabak

Jun 17, 2005, 01:34 PM

I do not debate that a Monk, healing himself, probably cannot be killed by my damage output, even with conditions. Frankly, any one single character attacking a monk who has nothing else to do but heal himself, will have difficulty doing this.

But remember, this is PvP...If I can make that monk focus on healing himself...he's NOT healing his teammates. You've mentioned that my build makes me vainly unreliant on my team. Not so. I simply take a different strategy with me into the arena. My role is to harrass and/or kill Monks, or other key targets. I also remain self-sufficient, so that my monk can focus on healing other people who need it more. OR...as you so expertly made a point of...himself. If I am self-relaint enough to survive, that means I can help keep my monk safe. If I can distract a chasing warrior from my monk for 2 seconds, that's enough for him to cast a heal, and survive as well.

I've seen a lot of situational talk here, but most of it is highly subjective, and all is directed at countering a particular tactic. As I've been stating from the beginning, there's -always- a counter, we all know this. The REAL test, though, is when the entire team uses individual and combined strategies to succeed. I take a broader view of my strategies, not just me, my build, and my damage. We all have our role. Just because I use mine, doesnt mean someone else couldn't use their own strategy even better....or worse.

I don't mind being a low priority target, because underestimating my abilities is the first flaw of a potential foe. True, I could use Barrage, but then that would end my Kindle/Apply poison prep and drain energy. I could do any NUMBER of things that you might consider effective, but would not meet my style of play, and therefore be less effective for me. This game is just flexible enough to allow such a variety of viable combinations.

Quite frankly, I don't mind at all that even after explaining my build to everyone here, some of you continue to underestimate it. That, in my mind, is PERFECT. That is how this character was built to be. I could spend many more hours explaining how everything about my build works to my advantage, tactics, strategies, and the like...but I won't.

I'll keep using my build, and everyone else can use theirs. Opinions will vary, but eventually, results speak for themselves. The opinions that truly do matter the most, though, are those of my teammates. I've always had really good feedback on my results..

I've offered my perspective on rangering, based on my experiences in playing the betas and beyond. The rest of the readers of this thread can take from it what they need. That is, after all, the point of this entire discussion.

Kishin

Jun 17, 2005, 03:21 PM

I could spend just as many hours explaining why your build is an Arena build that will get you nowhere against competent guilds or Tombs teams, but you wouldn't listen anyway.

Your build plays to none of the Ranger strengths, as said above. Your conditioning is weak, you don't have good DPS or even burst damage, you waste slots on healing, you have no interrupts, nothing to help with denial/shutdown....You're just plinking away doing insignificant damage and being a warm body. Your teammates are basically carrying you.

Davin Kabak

Jun 17, 2005, 04:00 PM

I realize that is what you believe, because you have skills you think are more effective than others, but it is simply untrue. Perhapse it will not work in -your- team strategy. it works quite well in mine. The Ranger's flexibility and ability to take care of themselves (and yes, heal themselves) IS a stregth, that can be exploited very well by someone who knows how.

Your view is narrow-minded, and you are wrong on many counts. Since you did not take the hint from my previous post, I will make it very clear. I will no longer respond to comments about this subject, to allow the rest of this thread to continue.

ICURADik

Jun 17, 2005, 04:38 PM

I vote to delete all his post. He has some decent assumptions... Degens are better than people think. Throwing a poison arrow on all members of the other team is 64 dps. Ignoring your normal attacks. But his other ideas about Troll Ungent with dual weapons are absolutely inane and useless.

Blackace

Jun 17, 2005, 04:39 PM

Actually no, his view pretty much outlined everything wrong with the build. In short, it does nothing. It doesn't work in his team strategy because obviously it will work in no one's team strategy(that's trying to win).

A Ranger with no attack speed buff that's trying to do damage is usually useless.
A Ranger with no disruption strong enough to shut down a caster is also useless.

Like the guy said, you're build plays to none of the Rangers strengths. To put this into a clearer perspective: Rangers and Warriors are the last to be targetted. The reason is because of their armor and the fact that they can be hated out somewhat easily. Good Rangers and Warriors become priority targets because they are doing something so well that they have to be focused. Your build just doesn't do anything, and allows teams to play 8v7. It may sound harsh but that's the reality of the build. The dps is poor, the disruption doesn't exist and you dont even know how the skills work to correctly estimate what the build actually does(which is nothing).

Traps

Jun 17, 2005, 05:04 PM

i think thats what my ranger basicly is what blackace just said :(

i cant do damage and i cant stop casters. im a ranger monk and im losing hope again in my ranger.

my current stats

expertise-10(rune)
wilderness surival-10(minor runes)
marksmenship-12(mask+minor rune)

i cant seem to use anyskills well :mad:
current build
-----
barrage
disrupiting shot
throw dirt
Nature's Renewal
Favourable Winds
troll urgent
barbed trap
rebirth
----
help!!

Blackace

Jun 17, 2005, 05:12 PM

Too much in one build and not enough focus. 2 Nature Rituals and 2 traps? Barrage can easily be the only pure attack skill in a build, but it needs to be supported by something. Distracting shot is the only thing there. Why not Pin Down, Power shot(depending on bow), Tiger's Fury, Judge's Insight, Strength of Honor+Vamp Bow in extreme cases or something to either boost damage, or add in more focus+utility.

Traps

Jun 17, 2005, 05:29 PM

strenght is honor looks like it can help but i was going to pick up insindary arrows today

ICURADik

Jun 17, 2005, 05:42 PM

Actually no, his view pretty much outlined everything wrong with the build. In short, it does nothing. It doesn't work in his team strategy because obviously it will work in no one's team strategy(that's trying to win).

A Ranger with no attack speed buff that's trying to do damage is usually useless.
A Ranger with no disruption strong enough to shut down a caster is also useless.

The quote tool if very useful. Not sure if you talking to me or someone else. All I was pointing out is that poisons are highly underated. 8 health loss a second for 20 seconds is not exactly amazing, but for the cost of one skill slot, negligible energy, and the ability to apply to multiple people makes it great for overwhelming a healer. Of course you will be using other skills such as throw dirt, distrating shot, tiger's fury, and the normal Penetrating Shot for added damage.

Once again, every other point he makes is absolutely useless. But poisons are powerful when used correctly.

ICURADik

Jun 17, 2005, 05:43 PM

Blackace

Jun 17, 2005, 06:37 PM

The quote tool if very useful. Not sure if you talking to me or someone else. All I was pointing out is that poisons are highly underated. 8 health loss a second for 20 seconds is not exactly amazing, but for the cost of one skill slot, negligible energy, and the ability to apply to multiple people makes it great for overwhelming a healer. Of course you will be using other skills such as throw dirt, distrating shot, tiger's fury, and the normal Penetrating Shot for added damage.

Once again, every other point he makes is absolutely useless. But poisons are powerful when used correctly.

I was talking to someone else. Just so happens that when I was writing you posted just before me.

My take on poison is that it of course works best when you hit the whole team. However, you need to combine it with something else to actually make it a huge threat. Dumping a bunch of Dots on a team is ok but easily beatable, throwing some masking conditions or hexes on top is extremely painful.

Power Shot is very weak in comparison to Penetrating attack.

Yea sub PA. I actually like that alot more than PS, even if the bonus vs Casters isn't all that much.

UsagiNoSenshi

Jun 17, 2005, 10:47 PM

i would just like to say... I am a Beast Master...

:: prepares to be flamed::

So many people say how useless my build is T_T it makes me sad beacuse i think i've done rather well, i mean i've acended already. I've only had to take my pet out for fighting my mirror self, that's it. I'm not big on PvP so i'm not worried about that.
I have a pet strider, named Mr. Feathers.

Beast Mastery- 13
Marksmanship- 13
Expertise - 8
Wilderness Survival- 2

Power shot
Call of Haste
Feral Lunge
Predator's Pounce
Troll Ungent
Comfort Animal
Charm Animal
(random res or capture signet)

and no i have no clue why i have the random 2 Wilderness. Any suggestions? should i mess with some more runes?

caveman6686

Jun 18, 2005, 12:32 AM

small question
can u apply psn then use a psn arrow? will it stack?
or am i just dreaming

Seth Oriath

Jun 18, 2005, 01:13 AM

No, there are no stacking of conditions like that. Just as bleeding doesn't stack with bleeding, Poison doesn't stack with poison.

However, you can stack different conditions together, such as Bleeding, Poison, and On Fire, plus any hexes that do health degen (only one hex per, though). It'll stop at -10 degen, but all degen beyond -10 goes into a retroactive state; if someone tries to give them, let's say, Healing Breeze (and let's say +8 health regen), and they already have a -14 health degen (even though they're only taking a -10 degen damage), then the degen will only go down to -6. Annoys the dickens out of Monks when that happens. :p

burianek

Jun 18, 2005, 02:32 AM

Ok, I've almost got this one fine tuned. Wouldn't mind suggestions. Went on a 14 game winning streak in the team arena with this one with the rest of my team:

1 W/Mo
1 Mo/Me
1 Me (yup, no 2ndry)

and me:

R/Me: Energy drain dominatrix :)

Domination 11
Expertise 10 + 3 + 1
Marksman 10 + 1
Beast Mastery 1 + 1

Tiger's Fury
Echo {E}
Debilitating shot
Pin Down
Empathy
Distracting Shot
Mind Wrack
Rez Signet

I used a half moon, but you can suit to taste. You need to hit though. I wouldn't recommend a flatbow or high arc bow for this build.

This is kind of how I played:
Depending on the other team, if it's warrior heavy, echo pin down and try to take them out of the conflict, this worked marginally, but what worked better was:

Find the enemy Me if there is one, allow the rest of the team to target someone else. If no Me, target the Mo. Throw up echo before you engage to give your energy a chance to recup. When they get in range, echo debilitating. two quick debilitatings, and then while you're waiting for recharge, toss on a mind wrack. Two more debilitatings. while they're recharging, run to a better vantage point. Two more debilitatings, at this point most Mes will be out of energy. Watch for the spike the mind wrack puts on him. You're not too interested in damage, you just need a tell that he's dry. If you see the spike early, stop. If not by this time, you proly missed a shot. Just stick on him and finish the energy drain. Echos probably gone by now, so you'll have to take it slower.

Once you see the spike that mind wrack hit, switch to the monk and start the same thing. With a Me greatly diminshed in his capacity to hurt your Mo, your team is probably doing ok. The Mo has probably tapped quite a bit of his reserves by this point in the fight, so depending on the situation, you can hold echo as an ace in the hole for something else later, or continue to echo debil. I actually had one fight where I echo'd tiger's fury and had it running constantly while we were trying to spike the enemy resurrect priest. (hate that map)

If you get hit by a spirit shackle or pacifism or something nasty, you have empathy to fall back on and spam. If the team is concentrating fire on a guy, flick on tiger's fury or start chaining mind wrack, debil, mind wrack, debil. It's not efficient at all, and there are better ways for others to deal dmg, but if you need a quick spike, it works ok in a pinch. Try not to abuse Tiger's though. I found myself running out of energy with this build. I didn't need Tiger's to sequence my attacks either, you may find that a lot of enemies start running when their energy gets low, so you'll be doing some running yourself for positioning.

If you really don't have any casters to harrass, you can always fall back on empathy to help out the melee conflicts. There were a number of times where empathy on a single warrior beating on our Mo (who was self healing) worked pretty well.

Using distracting shot when needed and scanning the field for long casting animations or resurrects goes without saying. I'm terrible at switching targets, but I'm getting slightly better.

Again, this guy is kind of a flexible support tool, that you can tailor on the fly vs the other team.

Here are a few of my considerations:

I'm thinking of swapping out domination for inspiration. I found myself running out of energy, even at 14 expertise regularly. Mind wrack isn't all that useful, I'm just using it as a crutch for when to switch targets, so I could probably ditch that for some sort of energy tap for when i get low. And there are some nice spells in inspiration that could replace empathy.
That's one thought.

If I did decide to stay with domination, perhaps a power leak or power spike. But I can't see these stacking too well with distracting. So I decided against them.

If I went insp, I also thought about getting rid of tiger's in favor of something like hex breaker or some other stance. Spirit shackle is just downright ugly when you throw it on a Ranger. I dunno, seems like a waste though. Still searching for the perfect fluff to throw around the echo, debil, pin down core.

Any comments?

Traps

Jun 18, 2005, 12:42 PM

for the other rangers other there heres some tips

-use preprations and rituals for damage +'s durying battle
-traps never hurt...you :)
-sugesting elite skills for pvp. 1 poison arrow and insindary arrows(anti-caster)

i was p/oed before at my ranger build,but now ive finally figured out on how rangers work. A Master was one an Apprintice remember that.

Magic Gan Man

Jun 18, 2005, 09:01 PM

Can anyone think of a good build for a R/ME that has a good balance between anti-cast and defense so i dont have to worry about dieing the whole time and mabe a lil dmg to but i think that down with high marksmanship

Nidhogg

Jun 19, 2005, 09:15 AM

Valerius

Jun 19, 2005, 03:44 PM

how's this build? :

Ranger / Monk

Expertise : 11 + 3
Marksmanship : 6 + 1
Wilderness Survival : 12 + 3 + 1

- Poison Arrow {E}
- Distracting Shot
- Troll Unguent
- Whirling Defence
- Storm Chaser
- Flame Trap
- Barbed Trap
- Dust Trap

( btw... is max damage for a bow at req. 7 14-27 ? i ask because i have never seen a 15-28 req. 7 bow... just wonderin'... )

UsagiNoSenshi

Jun 19, 2005, 04:13 PM

To UsagiNoSenshi:
I just wanted to say good luck to you and Mr. Feathers :) I have always wanted to try a beast mastery build and now I think I will. I hear pets become more powerful if you have more pet skills on your skill bar so I am going to try that. Also if you are having fun in PvE dont let anyone try to ruin that for you! P.S. Give Mr. Feathers a hug for me (I love that name!) XD

Thank you so much ^^ means a lot. Lol Mr. Feathers has a lot of fans, he got quite well known in the ascalon arena way back when. I don't see why everyone is always dissing beast master, my pet holds up better than whatever lvl 20 warrior is tanking for our team, plus he doesn't sponge heals from the monks. If you make you build around your pet a beast master is a very good build! I hope to see more fellow beast masters out there! <3

Traps

Jun 19, 2005, 11:00 PM

im going to try an lean my ranger to a PVp beast master,

my curent stats(ranger/monk)
wilderness-11
marksmen-11
expertise-10

i cant change the build really because the troll urgent is a wilderness skill :(
im going to be getting my new pet and i really want to convert to bmastery.

i dont see alot of "good" rangers that use pets.

any sugestions?

UsagiNoSenshi

Jun 19, 2005, 11:56 PM

im going to be getting my new pet and i really want to convert to bmastery.

i dont see alot of "good" rangers that use pets.

any sugestions?
You have to give everything to your pet. It's the only way to be good at it, your skills are for your pet not you, you will not be dealing the damage you pet will. Most people can't live with that, that's why you don't see many good beastmasters.

Traps

Jun 20, 2005, 05:54 AM

Most people can't live with that, that's why you don't see many good beastmasters.

your right i cant live with that :p

idk yet im so fickle with rpgs ill try and stick with my current build.

piercehead

Jun 20, 2005, 06:05 AM

how's this build? :

Ranger / Monk

Marksmanship : 6 + 1

( btw... is max damage for a bow at req. 7 14-27 ? i ask because i have never seen a 15-28 req. 7 bow... just wonderin'... )

Yes 15-28 is max for any bow.....however you'll only be doing 64.8% (at level 20) of that because of your low Marksmanship.

This link shows the combat mechanics in case you haven't read it:

Combat Mechanics (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content/game-mechanics-id674.php)

Warlord Teriel

Jun 20, 2005, 05:36 PM

Im currently trying out different ideas in the Conjure Flame build for PvP mostly. Here is what I have writen down so far. Its untested because im still working on unlocking some ranger skills.

If I could get some advice or even a "WTF are you thinking that sucks!"... then that would be great :) Thanks.

Favorable Winds
Conjure Flame
Kindle Arrows
Glyph of Energy {Elite}
Mark of Rodgort
Hunter’s Shot
Penetrating Attack
Resurrection Signet

I tried to put them in the order they will be used.

.................................................. ..........

Maybe?

Favorable Winds
Conjure Flame
Ignite Arrows
Dual Shot
Hunter’s Shot
Crippling Shot {Elite}
Troll Unguent
Resurrection Signet

Im unsure if it would be better using dual shot everytime it pops up or using skills like Hunter’s Shot and Penetrating Attack over and over while using Ignite Arrows.

Was thinking that dual shot shoots 2 arrows so that gives double benefit from ignite arrows but not sure it would be more damage.

If I could get a little advice on these then that would be great :) And no I havent tried them yet. Still working on getting the skills.