Skills - Nature's Renewal

[Guild Wars Guru]

You can view this database entry at: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/422-nature-s-renewal.
You may add your comments in this thread.

[Aehron]

Anyone know which trainer, if any, offers this skill? Thanks in advance.

-Aehron Telemnar

[xpuppetmaster]

I think Camp Rankor.

[Klaus Barnabas]

Yes, it is in Camp Rankor. This was the last non-elite ranger skill I didn't have and I checked Camp Rankor (thought I did before) and sure enough he had it.

[Disoblige]

This skill is too powerful !

[Makkert]

This skill is too powerful !
yes, quite powerfull indeed.
but if it wasn't around, enchantment stacking would probably be rampant...
and that prospect doesn't sound fun either.

[Entropius]

Then run Rend Enchantments, Well of the Profane, or whatever else, but Nature's Renewal has a huge effect that's too much even for an elite.

[Haung Yu]

It's absolutely annoying for Mesmers too.

[roboky]

How is it powerful? It effects both teams in the area and it's one of the only counters for a spell breaker casted I can think of.

[Disoblige]

How is it powerful? It effects both teams in the area and it's one of the only counters for a spell breaker casted I can think of.

I doesn't affect your team if they know that they will spam nature's renewal every seconds.


-it removes elementarist attunements and ether skills.
-monk skills are made of 60% enchaments.
-mesmer skills will take 2x long to cast and hexes are instantly removed.
-Almost all buffs are remove. (armor earth, balt aura , channeling)
-Most enchaments are costly and it's hard to recast again.
-It gives a huge advantage to primary attackers. (particulary ranger build)

I think this skill should become elite

"it's one of the only counters for a spell breaker casted I can think of."
mesmer(2) and necro(3) have anti-enchament spells.

[roboky]

Those two mesmer and necromancy anti-enchantments don't work on spell breaker because they're spells

[Disoblige]

Ok.. i'm wrong

[knives]

*Swings TEH Nerf-bat*

[Rajamic]

Those two mesmer and necromancy anti-enchantments don't work on spell breaker because they're spells

Spell Breaker prevents the monk from being the target of enemy spells. Chilibans targets the caster with an AoE, so it would still work. Though you'd probably need 2-3 necros hitting this at the same to cut through cover enchantments, particularly if one of them is Divine Boon.

[Dac Vin]

and it's one of the only counters for a spell breaker casted I can think of.


It's fun how an overpowered skill has to be used to counter ANOTHER overpowered skill... :rolleyes:

[Timoz]

Leave the skill alone ;)

Counter it if you have a problem don't just try to get it nerfed :p there are plenty of counters especially for spirits and for NR

[Como Fort]

Just another nerf on ranger teams because no one can be bothered to do anything about it. I'm seeing so many of these they are beginning to bore me. Spirits die very easily, so just kill the spirit? Oh wait, your not good enough to be targetting spirits....

[Timoz]

;) he is giving you a rather big hint there ey :D

Spirits need no nerfing. end of imo.

It is getting quite annoying people criticising ranger teams lately, 'o look it's another crappy spirit team cus its all they know they cant do anything else' This coming from a smiting team i played today, yesterday and a few days previous to that. If people are going to criticise leave out ranger teams please.
As for the smiting teams i had a burial mounds match today, yes ok we won, 5/6 teams were smiting, leave ranger teams alone and criticise smiting if your gonna criticise some for following crouds etc. please.

[Rajamic]

If you nerf this, then the Healing Ball comes back into fashion.

[Disoblige]

if a player with spirit has oath shot, they can spam it very fast. no matter if u nuke the spirits. it would be replace easily

[username]

this spell is a lyer

[Disoblige]

The spirit works the moment it is placed on the area. it does not remove your enchaments/hexes when u leave and enter it's range

[Dark Kanaye]

Hmm...heres an idea...interrupt the ranger thats trying to cast this if you hate it so much. Cry of Frustration, anyone?

[BigTru]

Warrior with Wild Blow + Interrupt Ranger = No Nature's Renewal spam.

[Disoblige]

You know that R/Me are usually spamming it. i doubt u can interrupt them because they have anti-interrupt stance.

[BigTru]

You know that R/Me are usually spamming it. i doubt u can interrupt them because they have anti-interrupt stance.

Dur... That's the reason why you bring a Warrior with Wild Blow.

[Zeru]

You can design a character to make sure that a ranger never completes a spirit cast.

However, what's the point? Good teams won't have just one person with spirits they need.

[Dark Kanaye]

Then make sure you have more than one person that can interrupt it.

[Disoblige]

People think u can interrupt a ranger team from dropping a bunch of renewal. they r probably haven't fought a decent ranger group

[michaeldt]

unfortunately, these are usually cast when the enemy is out of aggro range, but within the spirits range. few rangers cast during battle unless they are getting a beating, so interupts are useless.

this spell would be a lot "fairer" if it removed all conditions too :) no more poison arrow spam :)

[Disoblige]

yes, quite powerfull indeed.
but if it wasn't around, enchantment stacking would probably be rampant...
and that prospect doesn't sound fun either.

Think of it this way, elementarist , mesmer and necro needs hex and enchantments to beat warrior/ranger. enchanments and hex are important for spell casters


Quicken ziper+ oath shot+ nature renewal
every 10 sec u can cast another nature renewal.
This is how fast ranger group spam their sprits.

[Resin]

Is that a fact that if you are not in the area when it was dropped, and then you enter its range, you keep your enchantment?

[Disoblige]

Is that a fact that if you are not in the area when it was dropped, and then you enter its range, you keep your enchantment?

yes. i'm positive.

[Tarot Ribos]

I've got a Primary mesmer that loves his hexes, and I don't have too much to complain against Nature's Renewal except this:

Does it really have to remove ALL Hexes and Enchantments? 2x Casting Time I can deal with. Removing some of them, I can deal with. But seriously... it's a MASSIVE effect. And it can be spammed.

So... possible solutions without completely nerfing it...

1) Increase the recharge time to something less spammable.
2) Increase the energy cost to something that can't be spammed for too long
3) Change the effect to only remove 1 hex and 1 enchantment from each character when it's cast.

#3 isn't likely. And even I don't like it. #1 seems like the most reasonable solution... if you want to build a team of NR-spamming rangers, go ahead. You've stopped the 1-2 mesmers and the 2-3 monks with your whole team. Those other guys just got a little annoyed. The problem with #2 is the Ranger Expertise attribute... since that would decrease the energy cost anyways.

NR is overpowered in PvP. Not too much so, but enough to merit some changes. That's my view, as a hexing mesmer.

[Kampfkeks]

The problem is not the recharge time, it is the use of oath shot.
You can boost the recharge time up to 3600 seconds. Yet a single mere oath shot could just recharge it.

However, Natures Renewal Spam is relying on Energy. So why not try to shut it down with heavy energy denial? Ooops, that would actually require you to bring your mesmer or a few Warriors with Fear Me!. Or as they rely on oath shot just prevent getting hit. A bad placed oath shot in fact blocks out the ranger spamming spirits for a few seconds (10 seconds atleast, more probably up to 20 seconds).
About allready placed spirits. You can go all suicide with edge of extinction. Or you could simply focus on the spirits until they are gone. When your energy denial is set up good enough they won't be pumping out one spirit after the other. And as they are at least one member short, more likely 2-3 members... you stand a good chance.
This is not 100 % chance on winning but nothing is 100 % in competition.

The problem is not the missing counter, the problem is the people neglecting certain classes and skills because they are either gimp/newbish/alien to them.

[Tarot Ribos]

*smacks self*

How did I forget Oath Shot?

Right. So scratch the increase of recharge time.

Yep. Upped energy cost is the way to go. Or decrease the number of hexes/enchantments it removes.

[False Prophet]

I completely agree this is far too powerful in PvP, especially in coordinated fighting class-heavy teams. Gear up a group with only quick cast enchantments or signet builds and only take warriors and rangers and with some decent secondary choices, the other team doesn't stand a chance. Countering? Forget about it - this thing has one of the largest area affects in the game and if it goes down, rangers will just run away and recast it from a safe distance (using storm chaser, dodge, and/or escape to pull the distance).

This spell is the single reason I don't play elementalists in PvP anymore - the only real elementalist counter (aside from running out of power LONG before anyone is dead) is ether prodigy and that spell causes exhaustion, does damage at the end, isn't really as effective at a prolonged attack as an attunement (not to mention leaves you exhausted very quickly), and it can be still be interrupted or shattered after it's cast, where the spirit has to be slain and is usually so far away that nobody can hit it or get to it. Most of the time, I played an ice mage or earth mage with wards, though I've tried the offensive route, too (I like air/earth with elemental attunement, but this spell completely counters it).

[Flowah]

If you nerf this, then the Healing Ball comes back into fashion. <<

Yeah, let's see them healing ball with an ele or two with maelstrom. Every damn "build" has a viable counter except spirit spammers. Every time I've gone to HoH it's just my team vs however many spirit spammers. It's just a race really, to see which spirit team can get to the altar first and spam the most spirits and heal area. Yay....

[icecomet]

Yes, this skill is completely overpowered - it should AT LEAST be made elite, if not nerfed further.

Everyone who says "kill the spirit" or "interrupt the ranger" obviously hasn't tried to do that themselves - its damn hard for several reasons to keep nr off the ground:

1.hard to find in the first place
2. oath shot
3. if you dont ever target players cos you're finding spirits, you're dead.

Think about it, how is it balanced? - the enemy team gives 1 ranger a job of pressing 2 different buttons - pretty much effortlessly, and your whole team has to run around searching for spirits and trying to kill the ranger who has probably got several different stances for different situations. It renders your team pretty much useless if you have to kill a spirit that keeps popping up constantly..

[clonmac]

I agree that this spell is extremely powerful in PvP, almost to the point where I think it is borderline being elite (if only for the fact that you can't combine it with Oath Shot).

But really when you think about it, the reason why some spirits have some pretty powerful effects to them is because of the fact that they effect BOTH teams! People sometimes don't realize this. If you want to win in HoH and you are coming across a lot of spirit spamming groups, then customize your group's build to play on the terms that the common spirits that are being used are no longer effective.

If you build a team that isn't heavy with enchantments and hexes, then you have nothing to worry about. To have a well balanced team you need a little of everything. These flavor of the month teams like the Air ele's, the smiting monks, the NR spammers, the reason why they only last for a little while is because people adjust to their usage. It's the well balanced teams that adjust to their surroundings that stay for the long haul. By balanced team I mean one that covers the all the bases, like energy denial, interruptions, degens, healing, spike damage, etc.

When you get all those things in a group, depending on what you are faced with, one of those roles will become more important that the other. Then that is the area that you must concentrate on as you charge into the fray.

If they are spamming NR, they lay low with the enchantments for a bit in the battle, and concentrate on the energy denial of the monk so that he can't use his skills that are tailored for the use of NR. Then you can take out the Ranger with your damage dealers. Once the ranger is down you can cast your enchantments and hexes to really take charge because those will obviously be their weakness because of the fact that they probably were relying on NR for their hex removal.

The game is all about strategy and being able to adjust while in battle.


On a side note, I think a good change that wouldn't imbalance things would be for spirits to be affected by hexes. I think they should be affected by hexes like Conjure phantasm and life siphon, etc. Not conditions like bleeding/poison/disease because they are not fleshy. But I don't see why degen hexes shouldn't effect them. Correct me if I am out of place there.

Or if that change isn't made, then maybe change it so that spirits are like Horrors and fiends. In the sense that when they are made, they slowly lose health until their time is up. And the higher level the spirit, they lose health at a much slower rate. This will prevent spirit spammers from atleast not putting some points into their wilderness survival, making them less effecient at markmenship or whatever. Maybe you could have spirits with a set number at 2 health degen. So then when you spam a low level spirit, they will lose health quicker than a higher level spirit that would have more health.

...my 2 cents

[Kashrlyyk]

A single none elite spell for 5 energy that removes hexes and enchantments from PvP? Seriously that should be at least an elite!

[GranDeWun]

Suppose NR, when dropped, killed all other spirits in addition to removing hexes and enchantments. Then, you could run NR OR spam spirits, but not both....

[Sofia Sofia Sofia]

You don't need to elite NR. All you have to do it make it so that when it is created, it does not remove all enchantments and hexes. The 2X casting time effect still applies. The true NR spammer teams are CONSTANTLY casting it with the Oath Shot combo so that not only are enchants and hexes hard to cast (the difference between a 1 and 2 second casting time is very overstated), but that when they are cast, they are subject to periodic removal. This constant casting of it is the real abuse, not the use of the spell.

Personally I like the philosophy behind the skill. Unlike with some other action based MMORPGs, a player does not have to chain cast in order to be effective. NR gives the non-casting classes a much needed advantage.

[Mavrik]

I'm gonna have to go get this... sounds good to have.

[wbaldwin67]

My Ranger uses this skill, it works BE' yout' FULLY againts mesmers. I deliberately took this on the Mission from the Mines where you rescue the girl SAIDA then have to take her to the boat. There is a level 28 Warrior / Mez Dwarf their that is vicious. Not only that but they put that Doyak right their by him.
We lured the Doyak and killed it .. then I dropped that Natures renewal down.. it was all over. He killed himself with his casting.. The AI has him set up to keep trying to HEX you and he keep taking damage. That battle didnt last 20 seconds.
Its a great investment if you know your going against a Mez boss... just make sure you tell your party (if you have MEZ on your team) your dropping it. Because it will punish them as well.

[Mavrik]

Sounds like a very good skill if the enemy uses nothing but or mostly hex spells. I'm tired of those damn hex casters lol. Of course I have not done the mission from the mines yet with my ranger so I'll have to remember your tip.

Now would this prevent you from casting poison?

[Kashrlyyk]

Apply poison is a preparation not an enchantment!

You don't need to elite NR. All you have to do it make it so that when it is created, it does not remove all enchantments and hexes. The 2X casting time effect still applies. The true NR spammer teams are CONSTANTLY casting it with the Oath Shot combo so that not only are enchants and hexes hard to cast (the difference between a 1 and 2 second casting time is very overstated), but that when they are cast, they are subject to periodic removal. This constant casting of it is the real abuse, not the use of the spell.

Personally I like the philosophy behind the skill. Unlike with some other action based MMORPGs, a player does not have to chain cast in order to be effective. NR gives the non-casting classes a much needed advantage.

As long as the spirit is cast fast enough it will keep the amount of active enchantments at zero, even if it only removes 1 or 2 at a time! So that wouldn´t change much.

[Zanaso Firelance]

Why not just make it an elite, while making the recharge time a little higher?
That would solve the people using Oath Shot to spam it, and people won't always want to waste their elite slot with this skill.
Edit: Why not make it cost.. oh say.. 20-25 energy?
Even with 12 Expertise, that's still a good hunk of energy.

[Disoblige]

If this get nerfed ether renewal will be popping all over the place lol. nerf ether renewal too :)

[Leddy]

The nerf hammer just hit this skill.

/roflmao

[Wignasty]

I don't think it needs to be nerfed. I think that things are already balanced, but nobody wants to play on the terms the spirit groups set. If they're a good spirit group they're probably laying down Greater Confliguration and Winter too and they should all have mantra of frost. So now all physical and elemental damage is cold damage and they reduce that by about 50% w/ mantra of frost.

So why not run with a group that takes advantage of the spirits the other team lays down and sneaks damage in around the side. Everyone in the anti-spirit group could have mantra of frost too. Then deal damage that isn't physical or elemental. Holy Damage is a good one, and so is the necro's health stealing. Lay spinal shivers on your main target (although this will get removed evertime they spam NR) and have a warrior hit them for it's damage bonus. Dot's are a good way around this too but they are usually part of a hex and will get removed with NR.

[Kishin]

I don't think it needs to be nerfed. I think that things are already balanced, but nobody wants to play on the terms the spirit groups set. If they're a good spirit group they're probably laying down Greater Confliguration and Winter too and they should all have mantra of frost. So now all physical and elemental damage is cold damage and they reduce that by about 50% w/ mantra of frost.

So why not run with a group that takes advantage of the spirits the other team lays down and sneaks damage in around the side. Everyone in the anti-spirit group could have mantra of frost too. Then deal damage that isn't physical or elemental. Holy Damage is a good one, and so is the necro's health stealing. Lay spinal shivers on your main target (although this will get removed evertime they spam NR) and have a warrior hit them for it's damage bonus. Dot's are a good way around this too but they are usually part of a hex and will get removed with NR.

No one wants to play in a game environment where 1/4th of the skills are useless.

Not every spirit team uses Conflag/Winter, either.

[Mavrik]

why not just attack the spirit if someone uses it? Personally myself I think its grand in PvE but of course... its not about fairness to all, its only what the PvP wants...

[Disoblige]

This skill has been changed :) http://www.guildwars.com/news/gameupdates.html

[Rajamic]

why not just attack the spirit if someone uses it? Personally myself I think its grand in PvE but of course... its not about fairness to all, its only what the PvP wants...


It needed to change because, unlike every other spirit in the game, it had an effect that occured when it came into play that couldn't be fixed by killing it. And this effect removed 1/2 the spells in the game from the field of play. And if combined with Oath Shot and Quickening Zephyr, it made those same spells completely and utterly worthless to try to recast, because they'd take twice as long to cast and would be removed in 10 seconds anyway. It wasn't elite, it was so far beyond elite it wasn't funny!

Organized PvP had degenerated to the point where Nature's Renewal Team > Normal Team > Anti-Nature's Renewal Team > Nature's Renewal Team. It was one big game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, because the advantage one type of team had over another type of team was just too huge.


That change was good. The overall change to spirits was bad, because it needed some balance to make spirits more durable and easier to replace. SO as of right now, I wouldn't recommend using Nature's Renewal or any other spirit.

As for using NR in PvE before, most creatures aren't strong enough to need their enchantments stripped. Meanwhile, your Protection Monks, Curse Necros, and Elementalists (due to their energy management options) become worthless, while Healing Monks, Smiting Monks, and Mesmers become crippled because their enchantments and hexes refuse to stick.