about warrior weapon choice

[Neo-LD]

I realize that most people use swords, and nearly all those who dont use axes. Not many at all use hammers. The only reason I see for that is that its two handed, so you cant hold a focus or shield.

Well, Warriors are rarly targeted in pvp, so a sheild isnt necesary. Focuses are nice, but warriors hardly use their energy at all. So the two-handed disadvantage isnt so bad after all?

I find hammer skills to be much more useful in pvp: bleeding is nice, but monks notice alot more when you knock them down for 5 seconds straight.

[wingedcoyote]

The biggest handicap of hammers isn't the two-handedness, it's the slow attack speed. Because of their low Energy most warriors rely largely on Adrenaline skills, and hitting half as often means you have half as much Adrenaline (except for the small amount you get from being hit).

In general I think hammers might work better for secondary Warriors who still fight on the front lines, but have enough Energy to use that for most of their tactics. The obvious example is the classic Earth-Elementalist/Warrior knockdown beast.

[Dametrus]

I started my W/Nec with an hammer and when I got to about lvl 7 I realized that the DPS did not seem right. I then tried an axe and my damage sky rocketed. The skills that I have unlocked really made the difference. I use dismember every chance I get. Very Nice Skill. Now, if you were just straight attacking the hammer would do more damage per hit. But, the problem is, the hammer swings about one time every 2 seconds while the sword or axe is swinging every second. Just to show let's say that the hammer did 20 damage every hit (every 2 seconds). The sword/axe would be doing about 15 damage every hit (every second). The damage is increased a lot and you get the benefit of a shield.

Just my 2 cents

[Neo-LD]

I realize you can use those with swords/axes too, but even with frenzy/tigers fury/just about any attack rate boosting skill, the adrenaline buildup/ damage rate is still low?

What about skill comparisons? Personally I think hammer warriors are 10x more of a threat in pvp becasue of knockdown spamming.

[xakia]

I realize you can use those with swords/axes too, but even with frenzy/tigers fury/just about any attack rate boosting skill, the adrenaline buildup/ damage rate is still low?

What about skill comparisons? Personally I think hammer warriors are 10x more of a threat in pvp becasue of knockdown spamming.


His words are true. I can take out any sword or axe user with ease. Think I can't? You'll be thinking that on your ass because thats where you'll be. Most hammer users don't take the effort to go skill hunting. Having all the knockdowns and status effects is where its at. You won't do squat without them.

[zeox]

I played a Hammer build from level 1 to the final mission in PvE, meanwhile doing PvP resonably often with the same weapon. Hammer builds are certainly interesting, and can be very frustrating for PvP opponents due to all the knockdowns. However, you have to realise that compared to a sword, the killing power of the hammer is significantly less, and killing power in itself is a good way to disrupt what people are doing (what hammers are good at).

So say a monk is hanging around healing his buddies and generally making trouble for your team. In a way a you might think this is an ideal situation for a hammer, but in a way a sword can be just as effective. In the hammer situation, you're stopping the monk healing his teammates for a small period of time by knocking him down. In the sword sitation, you're doing damage to him that forces him to heal himself instead. So really, both weapon styles are result in a similar effect of disabling the monk's teammate-healing in some way, even though they went about it in different ways. However, if you get lucky, the result in the case of swords attacks will probably be the death of the monk, whereas in the case of the hammer it's more likely to be the death of a teammate.

It's also important to remember that ALL the hammer knockdowns are based on adrenaline, and and hammer has no other interrupts at all unless you can get the 10-energy elite Dwarven Battle Stance. And if you do pick that as elite, you lose access to knockdown-specific elites. And, of the 4 'guaranteed' knockdowns hammer has, 3 of those are elite, and the one that isn't elite is a 100% adrenaline drain. All the other knockdowns are conditional in some way, and may require set-ups to add weakness or not really work on spellcasters (counter blow). So in practice, you can't really chain knockdowns constantly, and after the end of a chain you tend to be left with 0 adrenaline, needing 7 at least to start knocking people down again. If you run up to a monk casting a resurrect with a hammer, and have little adrenaline, chances are you won't be able to stop that raise. With a sword, you need only 5 energy to interrupt.

Hammer is certainly an interesting build, more interesting I think than the generic sword. But sadly I'm not really conviced it's more powerful or useful in most situations. Perhaps there's a hammer build out there that will change my mind, but right now I've switched to boring old swords. Maybe when more hammer elite skill locations are discovered I'll go back to the drawing boards--right now 2 of the 3 are still a complete mystery.

[Lord Malikai]

Everyone forgets that this game is purely situational. That hammer warrior would probably never fight a sword wielding warrior because the calls will point towards casters and healers. And "what if" he goes to swing a knockdown strike on a monk who happens to be Mo/Wa with balanced stance ? Uh-oh!

There is no better build. This is purely a game of circumstances being either right or wrong for what you bought to that particular fight.

[sanderke]

This thread has gotten me quite interested in the whole Hammer vs Sword thing.

Can anyone point out some pro's and con's?

[Volarian]

you also have to consider some of the Warrior inherent skills - Strength/Tactics/Stances, they either prevent being knocked down, or as in the case of Sheild Bash can block the Hammer Knock down and lock a skill-based attack for 15secs.
Like previously said, it's situational and you'll never know what your opponent is throwing at you. They may enter the fight using a defensive stance or skill, blocking what you throw at them and gaining additional adrenaline or as stated above....knocking you down in defense & keeping you from using a crucial skill.

[Ishamael Sedai]

one thing to remember though is while hammer adrenaline doesn't charge as fast a sword guy's adrenaline doesn't charge as fast when he is knocked down. being knocked down is annoying when I have my sword w/mo. it is super annoying when i am about to do 100 blades and i get knocked down.

[xakia]

You wouldn't see a knockdown from me until i have the adren to keep you down till your dead. Stances are beautiful to build up the adren.

[Volarian]

You may as well be looking at the world from you back by then.....against it's situational and Ishamel said.....you may get interupted when you go for it, or may be on YOUR back getting a razor close shave :-)

[Azreal911]

I've mainly chosen my N/War character with a hammer cause of the future knockdown skills but all these discussions about pros and cons are very valid. So then I just decided to use the hammer cause it looked really cool smashing my enemies with it and hearing a loud thud. How can that not be cool? instead of being poked by someone with a pointed metal stick.

[Vangor]

Personally, I've fought quite a few hammer warriors and never been defeated. Granted I would love to use my knockdown build, I really find it alot less useful than my current which can deal with many at a time. Of course, if a Hammer ever faces a soothing images, price of failure, spirit of failure, most tend to overcompensate for the Hammer skills and get taken out, I always use Ward Against Melee whenever possible, that is already 50%.

[Neo-LD]

Crushing Blow
Devastating Hammer
Heavy Blow
Sprint
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Ferocios Strike
Tigers Fury

Just an idea. Tigers Fury and Ferocious Strike to deal damage and build Adrenaline Fast. Sprint to catch up the the targeted monk/mes/ele. Devastating Hammer, Crushing Blow, Heavy Blow, in that order, make for a nasty combo. Pets are rare (for a good reason) in pvp, but ferocious strike really helps rack the adrenaline.

[wingedcoyote]

Quick question -- independent of skills and such, are swords faster than axes? What's the fastest melee weapon of all?

I'm asking this because I'm planning an Illusionary Weaponry user who won't have any weapon skills at all, and thus the attack rate is really the only thing that matters. But if they're equal, I'll take an axe 'cause they look cool. :)

[ChristopherKee]

Everyone forgets that this game is purely situational. That hammer warrior would probably never fight a sword wielding warrior because the calls will point towards casters and healers. And "what if" he goes to swing a knockdown strike on a monk who happens to be Mo/Wa with balanced stance ? Uh-oh!

There is no better build. This is purely a game of circumstances being either right or wrong for what you bought to that particular fight.


agreed.

If I have water trident and disrupt chop on my bar, 1v1 on a hammer warr goes pretty fast for me. If I don't then I chose a different target. It's situational :)

[Cordub]

Im a Necro/War, and the only thing a knock down warrior is going to do is prolong his death by about 2 sec. All my spells are instance so a knock down only stops it for the time im knocked down and i have never found a warrior to keep me knocked down to death.

[The Red Knight]

hmm hammer vs sword
standard issue hammer build
dev hammer crushing blow mighty blow heavy blow

standard issue sword
sever gash galrath final thrust

I did the above hammer build with judges insite and destroyed alot of stuff :b but you cannot denie the standard issue sword build for its effectiveness>

[BashBashem]

All i have to say is that crap you said about warriors not being targeted first in pvp is bull .. if the casters arent paying any attention to me the warriors are dead :) but then again im talkin ascalon city arena not the last arena with the lvl 20s :P

[Hell Marauder]

I've been playing W/Mo using hammer since lvl 1, and I have found some changes needed to make a hammerer on equal footing with a swordman. Either knockdown needs to be one second longer or damage needs to go up a bit more, or adrenaline requirement should be reduced. As for now, you only get one free swing at a knockdown opponent before he/she gets up, even with knockdown lengthening gloves, it's still not long enough.

[Epinephrine]

Hammers may well need adjusting. The hammer swings every 1.75 seconds, while the sword/axe both swing every 1.33 seconds. In most games, if you go to a 2 handed weapon, giving up energy or armour to do so you get a boost in damage, but not here really, and for a few reasons. The base weapon does do more - in 28 seconds you get 16 swings with a hammer, and 21 with a sword axe - at 27 average damage per hammer blow and 18.5 average for sword axe, that's 432 for a hammer vs 388.5 for the sword, or an 11.2% edge. This will hold with any overall boost to attack speed.

The sword wielder gets a shield let's say, for up to 16 AL; this reduces damage taken by enough (about 24%) that it is actually balanced towards swords at this point.

All the bonuses to attack damage in the game are linear. This is true of Strength of honour, the conjures as well as the strength based skills, order of pain/vampire etc... - they all add to the damage by adding a constant - as such, the frequency with which you use them determines how beneficial they are, so they all benefit swords and axes more. There are some boosts that are percentages, Judge's Insight for example, or using Weaken armour on the opponent - these boost the actual damage inflicted by a percentage, but that results in equal gains for all weapon types, again, no actual advantage for the hammer.

Add to this fact that one gains adrenaline for attacking and we have the case that even the skills for hammer take longer to charge up, as the hammer swings slower. Less adrenaline means fewer adrenaline based attacks, which also corresponds to less damage.

In summary, hammers do slightly more damage (11.2%) at the expense of 24% damage reduction, so without healing and all things equal, the hammer is in trouble. They then lose out on the majority of skills and damage buffs, as they don't benefit from them as much, they gain less adrenaline due to swing rate for their skill use and they suffer taking a secondary that requires energy, as they don't get a focus.

When do hammers have an edge? Well, versus skills like shielding hands, healing hands and so on, it is better to hit less frequently for more damage, and versus foes with absorption type effects it is also an edge, albeit a small one given that the absorption seems to be up to 3 damage or so. They also have knockdown - now, I have not gotten far with my warrior, but I'd like to know from those with the experience - are hammers weaker overall because of these deficiencies, or do they make up for it eventually?

[kalaris]

And Epinephrine for teh Win.

Perfect post as to why hammer < Sword / Axe

Knockdowns are the only reason to go hammer, period.

[The Red Knight]

What are you smoking? o.O

berserker stance with judges insite dev hammer crushing blow mighty blow heavy blow is like 300 ish dmg. Hammers are fine, first two sword skills can be stopped with purge conditions so its not as beastly as you all make it out to be.

[Yukito Kunisaki]

You want adrenaline really badly?

Frenzy/Flurry + "For Great Justice!"

I used this combo with my axe user and he did exe strike like 3x as often... This IS the adrenaline engine... However, that leaves about 2 hammer skills to use so I'm guessing they'll be Hammer Bash + something else... Counter Blow?

It won't chain knockdowns, but if you're earth ele/Warrior, then u can use stoning + Staggering Blow for some hilarious consequences... :D

[Dakor]

Your all on drugs! Why has no one mentioned belly smash ? the best, goddamn, frikken melee skill in the game!.
AoE Blind for 9 seconds!

And here is how its used every time i pvp to devistating effect:
1) I run up to the called terget Monk
2) Frenzy on him to get my adrenalin up.
3) By now i have attracted all his warriors into bashing me in the back of the head...
4) Knockdown monk.
5) Bellsmash .... every single person round me in blind! ... sword and Axe have feck all DPS when they miss 95% of the time.
6) Switch to sword & Chakram
7) Illusionary Weapon
8) Flurry into "the dance of swiftest death"

Knockdown into belly smash is THE reason to pick hammer i can tank 2 tanks like this and another if i take the mesmer defence stance: distortion i think its called (which i tend not to as PvP IS a team game and if im taking on 3 guys my teams not worth playing with)

[MasterDinadan]

More "traditional" warrior builds don't involve hammers because hit for hit, they simply don't seem to be as good as swords and axes. However, there are some strategies that involve the use of hammer skills that work quite well. Hammers are not a very popular weapon choice, but they are not useless either.

[Dakor]

Hammer is becomming a lot more popular on european servers though so many playeres have not caught on to the awesome power of belly-smash... landing it on a gorup chasing down your healer is damage mitigation you can bank on.

Hammers only weaknessis no snare... but so any secondaries (all??) have some form of snare so that is easily dealt with.

Blow for blow you will not match Sword or Axe... manily because hammers best moves dont all have +dmg on them.

But there is a con to each weapons pro, and GW is never about 1V1 or one spec in direct copetition of another... sword might do potential more damage but bleeds and deep wounds dont stack so a cluster of sword warriors are made quite redundant by the first warrior in the group to Sever + Gash combo.
Axe has its wildly varying damage leading to a very mixed bag of damage out put.

Pick and choose what works for you out of each wepons pro's... like my build for example I spec in hammer and use it for its knockdows and blind and when i need storming DPS i pull out a sword and cast illusionary weopon to get the best of both worlds.

[The Red Knight]

Theres a reason hammer skills dont as high damage as axe and sword, its because hammer has HIGHER DAMAGE THEN AXE OR SWORD. Even though you will be swinging slower you will be dealing more damage blow for blow then they will to you. Has nobody ever seen berserker stance with a hammer and then unleashing your full hammer combo on 1 target?

Not to mention the possiblites of W/E with hammer stoning,aftershock and earthquake

god im tired if people whining how hammer sucks :/

might just have to make a hammer warrior for pvp -.-

I did this build in a bwe on a PVP char
Mighty blow
berserker stance
devestating hammer
crushing blow
heavy blow
sprint
Judges insite
Banish

Destroyed warriors monks anything that i could land the 4 hit wonder on with judges died. Unless they got healing off that I failed to interupt. You could also go w/e with dev hammer and stoning for perm knockdown for 5 energy =/.

[crazy coyote]

so what is the final outcome of this? from what I can tell, most people think swords are better but in PvP the hammer knockdown is more effective, sometimes at least. Should we have a poll or something, or can someone sum this up?

[Dakor]

Nope in PvP hammer is always better Vs other tanks. Knockdowns and blind = tank cant do anything.
And swords vs soft targets that are easily hamstrung (conditions are harder then hexes to purge) and can be Final thrusted as their health yo-yo's... dependig on healers to bring them back from the brink.. which final thrust can so easily pursh them over.

[kalaris]

I think the main problem with hammer is hit-for hit, it needs to generate more Adrenaline then Axe/Sword do...

Someone mentioned using Flurry/Frenzy + For Great justice, you realize thats 2 slots off your bar just to cure the inherit problem with hammer...

The AoE Blind is pretty awesome, when there are people in range...

I wasn't saying that hammer was terrible, its just it needs some more energy based skills, like axe and sword have... If all you're doing is knocking down people, yeah its great, Knockdown lock for the win...