Question

[iToasterHD]

So is [Burning Arrow] and [Apply Poison] effective in PvE (Mostly NM, maybe HM)?

Try not to get caught up in the other skills, just think whether or not those two skills could be used effectively.

It seems most people would prefer [Barrage] or [Broad Head Arrow]

[Taurean]

I've read [Conjure flame] + [Ignite arrows] + [Incendiary arrows] is a good pve combination.

[Archress Shayleigh]

Yes. They wouldn't definitely work in NM, and with the right build, even in HM. There are better skills, but because you asked not to get caught up with different ones, i'll stick to what i said. Hope this helps u!

[iToasterHD]

You can talk about other elites or even elites and skill combinations, but I wanted to avoid getting into a discussion about complete builds, for example D-shot, savage shot, stances, rez's, etc... Taurean is a good example.

[TheodenKing]

[burning arrow]+[apply poison] is very good. If you have a hero with [searing flames], or [they're on fire] you will breeze through most of NM, and some of HM.

[iToasterHD]

Would you use [Apply Poison] and [Burning Arrow] to just spread poison and burning among foes? Or would a ranger focus on key enemies, like monks or an elementalist to poison, burn & minor spike damage, with interruption? Or a mix of both? And is this a good role for rangers? Or do they serve better in a different support role?

[Xenomortis]

[Burning Arrow] + any other synergising skills will easily get you through most of Normal Mode and probably parts of HM.
[Barrage] is often preferred because it's area of effect and works brilliantly with skills like [Splinter Weapon] and [Mark of Pain]. BA is only single target damage but still has its uses and causes burning for a good duration.

[iToasterHD]

I always seemed to have trouble with [Barrage], I often find enemies don't clump that often so more often then not I am just hitting with +18 dmg and not helping the team. I figured [Burning Arrow] and [Apply Poison] allows for spreading of poison (which there ARE more effective skills for doing that), but I can also do a little spike damage to single targets, taking down key enemies. Still not sure which role a Ranger is supposed to fill, and saying they can fill any is just another way of saying they don't have one of their own.

[ac1inferno]

Instead of [[Burning Arrow] and [[Apply Poison], I like [[Incendiary Arrow] and Apply Poison for the AoE. [[Dwarven Stability] and [[Lightning Reflexes] is also a good combination.

[iToasterHD]

So are rangers that use poison and burning effective in PvE (effective being the key word, not doable; I am already well aware that PvE can sustain just about any gimmick build) or is Barrage still more useful? I am having trouble understanding the Ranger's place.

[ac1inferno]

AoE is better for PvE than single target, so most people think [[Barrage] for Rangers. But if you want to burn and poison, that can work too, but with [[Incendiary Arrows] and [[Apply Poison] being more effective than [[Burning Arrow] and Apply Poison.

[iToasterHD]

Does that apply poison to 3 foes, or just the first foe it?

EDIT: And this would suggest that an effective use of a Ranger is to spread poison and burning, am I correct? Often I hear Rangers are not meant for damage dealing, yet Barrage/splinter is the most common usage. And with poison, it seems Necro's can spread poison a lot faster and more easily then a ranger. Even interruption can be done better by mesmer, or is the ranger to do a little of both? Gah! I don't know why I have such trouble understanding this game.

[riceangel]

poisons all of them

[ac1inferno]

Does that apply poison to 3 foes, or just the first foe it?

EDIT: And this would suggest that an effective use of a Ranger is to spread poison and burning, am I correct? Often I hear Rangers are not meant for damage dealing, yet Barrage/splinter is the most common usage. And with poison, it seems Necro's can spread poison a lot faster and more easily then a ranger. Even interruption can be done better by mesmer, or is the ranger to do a little of both? Gah! I don't know why I have such trouble understanding this game.

It would poison all 3 foes that it hits.

Rangers are good condition pressure so spreading Poison and Burning is effective. Rangers not dealing damage were things of the past until various buffs that lead to a Turret Rangers changed what a Ranger can do. Necromancers don't really condition pressure much. They hex pressure more. Mesmers are good through disruption of casters. Most of their interrupts are for spells and chants while Ranger interrupts can interrupt anything (provided it has a cast time).

All of the above was for PvP. Now in PvE, there really shouldn't be Profession roles since just about anything can work in PvE, but I can't really say that because most PuGs won't take you in unless you have a set in stone build that has been proved to work.

[MagmaRed]

Most anything works in PvE, but my personal favorite is massive spike damage.

[glass arrows][triple shot][asuran scan][conjure frost]

Any conjure works, just depends on what you want/have.

[ac1inferno]

Most anything works in PvE, but my personal favorite is massive spike damage.

[glass arrows][triple shot][asuran scan][conjure frost]

Any conjure works, just depends on what you want/have.

Massive spike damage would only work if it recharges fast enough. With a 10 second recharge on [[Triple Shot], I feel that having AoE would result in more damage being dealt.

[iToasterHD]

So would [Incendiary Arrows] and [Apply Poison] do enough AoE damage (through burning and poison) to match that of [Barrage]? And I am still curious if Rangers could act almost as Assassins in that they take down specific targets and kill them quickly. But I suppose even Sin's have been reduced to AoE damage (in the form of [Moebius Strike]) I guess AoE is just better in PvE.

[MagmaRed]

Massive spike damage would only work if it recharges fast enough. With a 10 second recharge on [[Triple Shot], I feel that having AoE would result in more damage being dealt.

Yes, and you may notice I only listed 4 skills, not a complete bar. [dual shot] and several other skills can easily fill in for a more consistent damage output. However, when things die with 1-2 hits it doesn't need you to do more than move to the next target. And since this isn't solo farming, you certainly have damage coming from the rest of your team. Taking out that pesky Monk or Rit in the back healing the monsters your team is trying to kill is very useful. And if you can kill it before it has time to do anything but blink, it is effective.

AoE damage is by far better with a [barrage]+[splinter weapon] build than a degen build. Degen in PvE isn't terribly useful. So no, in my opinion, the degen from Incendiary and Apply wouldn't match Barrage at all. Even without Splinter, the degen is slow damage, while Barrage is instant. Toss in a weapon spell or a conjure and it jumps even higher, and if you are on a team with someone who can cast a weapon spell on you, use [barrage]+[conjure flame]+[splinter weapon] for serious damage.

[Axel Zinfandel]

If you are going to use Incendiary arrows, I highly advise the use of [Ignite Arrows] instead of [apply poison] because of the damage increase. Condition pressure sucks for PvE because degen generally sucks in PvE

I seem to go against the logic of the rest of PvE when I say that Adjacent range AoE -sucks- in PvE. there are only select areas and mobs that stick together THAT close enough to warrant it's use. It's the reason I could never understand the use of [Barrage] instead of [volley].

Unless the AoE is greater then Adjacent, I tend to go with massive single target damage.

[iToasterHD]

Well Axel, you just stated my issue with Barrage. More often then not I find that groups don't clump and at least not for very long. But it seems to be the general consensus that AoE is best in PvE, not single target take down. However, this may be, in part, due to our failure to have a proper tank. Perhaps with skill, barrage can be amazing.

I can never tell when my lack of skill is having an effect on me.

[elk]

just my 2 cents (and you hear this in other character threads/posts etc...)

degen just isn't the best way to go unless you're looking to cover something up. While [Ignite arrows] is good, it does cause scatter but you are looking to try and do as much dmg AoE as possible, which is why everyone comes back to [Barrage] ([incendiary arrows] being another acception for multiple arrows along with [volley]). Yes the groups don't always clump well or will move out of the clump but in most cases you're trying to pour out as much dmg to a group or single target (if you can reach the group with the poision spread, you should also be able to reach the group with alternate AoE dmg. DoT is just going to be slower kills therefore the AI will have more time to attack/ apply pressure etc. Considering that if the AI have "melee" shutdown, it'll effect application as well as +dmg but some groups will be able to remove conditions but won't be able to reduce +dmg again making DoT less effective.)

That and the DoT is a limited dmg output in that you can't stack additional degen with the cap limit at 10 pips whereas there are lots of additional stacking skills that can increase your +dmg (so in the case of [barrage], things like [judges insight], [great dwarf weapon] [conjure flame] [ebon battle standard of honor] [by urals hammer] [i am the strongest] [order of pain] etc. are all going to continue to add to the +dmg - just examples - all these won't work in combination w/ one another)

elk

[MasterSasori]

This is post #22 and I'm surprised that no one mentioned

[broad head arrow] + [epidemic] + [splinter weapon] on a hero.

This isn't that great in easy NM, but is awesome in HM.

Oh btw, whoever said Mesmers are better than Rangers in terms of interruption is a big, fat liar.

[iToasterHD]

Elk that is sort of what I wanted to hear. Though I am still frustrated that the game was so poorly designed in some ways. Especially since Rangers are "conditions spreaders," yet conditions are no good in PvE... makes me sad. But yes, I sort of understand now. Straight damage, or armor ignoring damage is best - especially when applied to as many foes as possible. I was having trouble with what I wanted the game to be, and what the game really is.

Oh and MasterSasori, I have tried BHA a lot in NM PvE and yeah, by the time arrow hits, the foe is dead. I don't often to HM (being how I am a perma-noob <- Copyrighted term) but I could see BHA/Epidemic being extremely useful.

If I ever decide to go back to playing GW, I will definitely experiment more with my Barrage/Pet + Hero w/ Splinter Weapon or in HM BHA/Epidemic

[MasterSasori]

Oh and MasterSasori, I have tried BHA a lot in NM PvE and yeah, by the time arrow hits, the foe is dead. I don't often to HM (being how I am a perma-noob <- Copyrighted term) but I could see BHA/Epidemic being extremely useful.

If I ever decide to go back to playing GW, I will definitely experiment more with my Barrage/Pet + Hero w/ Splinter Weapon or in HM BHA/Epidemic

Well don't give up. HM isn't really that bad, but it requires a bit of homework on what to bring and what not to. Rangers aren't particularly great in PvE, but they make it up with their ridiculous PvP abilities. Even in PvE, they are powerful. You should definitely try the build I suggested. It is incredibly powerful if played correctly. Even if you feel you are bad, with practice, you should do just fine. I firmly believe anyone with any bit of coordination and common sense can PvE almost anywhere.

[iToasterHD]

Okay, currently trying [Barrage] in NM PvE, and I find it useless. I have a Rt with [Splinter Weapon] and it still sucks. Even with the warrior tanking, as soon as we get close enough to attack, aggro breaks. I am by far hitting more single targets, then two or three. Might have just been that particular mission. But this is just strengthening my feelings that Barrage is only good in extremely specific conditions. Other AoE dmg skills are still great at single target damage, while Barrage just doesn't stand on its own. [Broad Head Arrow] takes too long to recharge for NM as well. Still not getting this.

[Axel Zinfandel]

No, you're pretty much right on the money

Barrage really isn't that good, and is only good under certain circumstances

[FoxBat]

[Prepared Shot][Penetrating Attack][Sundering Attack]

[Expert's Dexterity][Keen Arrow][Hunter's Shot][Sloth Hunter's Shot]

[Glass arrows][Conjure Flame][Dual Shot][Triple Shot][Needling Shot]

Can be improved with various skills

Prep: [Read the Wind][Expert Focus]
Interrupts: [Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Concussion Shot]
IAS: [Frenzy][Lightning Reflexes][Never Rampage Alone]
PvE: [Asuran Scan][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Dwarven Stability][Triple Shot][Save Yourselves!][Drunken Master]

I know your pain. Watching barrage do nothing everywhere sucks, and BHA isn't worth it much of the time. I spent most of my ranger's PvE carrer in NM thumping away with scythes and daggers as a result. Fortunately anet finally made some broken turret builds that make bows fun.

[_Nihilist_]

Splinter/Barrage builds work when you can guarantee that you can pull a decent amount of enemies onto a single target (Perma-SF Assassin, for example, I do this with a Guild/Alliance group in UW). When that happens, stuff blows up. Fast.

If you don't want to wait for a Tank to grab tons of aggro, though, you're going to be better off with an interrupt+spike capable build that allows you to shut down/interrupt/bend over and have your way with priority caster-type targets.

[Axel Zinfandel]

[Brutal needler;ACOSWexgJpOlLGG2Y0KJTOTidA]

Something I'd run.
Brutal Weapon is optional, and you can sub it out and raise marksmanship, though it does add considerable damage

[iToasterHD]

Yeah, I am still hitting a brick wall. Half of you guys say use this, then the other half says no, that sucks. I understand that you have to pick skills that you work best with, but man. I am getting frustrated again... AoE isn't effective most of the time. BHA isn't effective most of the time. Burning Arrow doesn't do enough damage. That's pretty much all the best PvE Ranger Elites. What exactly do rangers do in this game?!

[MagmaRed]

Rangers do a lot of things in this game. It depends on what you are doing with your team that decides what your role on that team would be. PvP or PvE? NM or HM? Facing casters that need to be interrupted? Facing physicals that need conditions (cripple, blind, poison, bleeding)? Need damage?

Ranger can do anything but heal basically. If you are running a Broad Head Arrow build and facing warriors and rangers, you will be useless. However, if you are running a Broad Head Arrow build and facing Elementalists, Monks, Necros, etc., you will serve a nice role for your team.

NOTHING works in all areas all the time. Versatility is nice, but knowing what to use and when is important.

[Axel Zinfandel]

And now you know

and knowing is half the battle

GW is boring running one build 24/7 anyway

[Aldric]

Yeah, I am still hitting a brick wall. Half of you guys say use this, then the other half says no, that sucks. I understand that you have to pick skills that you work best with, but man. I am getting frustrated again... AoE isn't effective most of the time. BHA isn't effective most of the time. Burning Arrow doesn't do enough damage. That's pretty much all the best PvE Ranger Elites. What exactly do rangers do in this game?!

At the moment I like [Asuran Scan][Distracting Shot][Penetrating Attack][Prepared Shot][Sundering Attack][Read the Wind]

I find [barrage][splinter weapon] a bit limited for alot of PvE and usually would run [BHA]/[Ebon Dust Aura] with [Volley] and micro the [Splinter Weapon] on a Hero instead

[Moonlit Azure]

It's good, but not great. Since your only targeting one thing at a time.

My main PvE build is just a splinter barrager.

[elk]

Yeah, I am still hitting a brick wall. Half of you guys say use this, then the other half says no, that sucks. I understand that you have to pick skills that you work best with, but man. I am getting frustrated again... AoE isn't effective most of the time. BHA isn't effective most of the time. Burning Arrow doesn't do enough damage. That's pretty much all the best PvE Ranger Elites. What exactly do rangers do in this game?!

well I didn't back track but are you working with H/H only or with other folks?

AoE is going to give you the greatest return when some can pull and maintain aggro. This is typically tough with H/H unless you are the one doing the maintaining. As a Ra, there are a few builds that work but you're typically built more towards that function versus doing the killing. You can get away with proper use of your surroundings to help maximize this but I'll assume that this isn't directly what you're after. Some of the PvE Nec builds such as Sabway will give you a similar effect with the minons but you just need to work on extending the minons out to ingage and hold aggro (i.e. flagging that MM hero slightly out - wait for things like the minons to circle the "master" which moves their aggro range towards your target etc.) Still though, H/H won't ever be as effective at clumping as a human team will (although you need to factor player experience). In a lot of cases with H/H, you're going to want to change your roll to aid the H/H group you create. The Broadhead suggestions often allow for your H/H group to plow through the AI versus you being the dmg source. Some of it is subjective to the area your running (i.e. no corpses). There is no "right" to the whole deal so when folks are telling you one thing or another, just soke it up and try to use it to your advantage.
Also consider that PvE is a matter of enjoyment (on some level) so playing what you want and the way you want and building around you does work (may take longer or have a lower success rate but there's no judgement from the H/H).

g/l

elk

[iToasterHD]

Very well written Elk. And I appreciate everyone's responses. More often then not I am using H/H, though I did realize having a team is much more preferred. However, like everyone else in this game it can be almost impossible to get a group together (and I am part of a guild). I try to constantly work with actual players to try out these builds, but I guess my issue is that as Elk stated, you have to soak up everyone's suggestions and make one of your own. And my problem is the more information I soak up, the less I find the Ranger to be useful in PvE. I recently reworked my use of the Heros, specifically having a warrior that I could easily control as to gather aggro in order to most effectively take advantage of Barrage even having an Rt with Splinter. Unfortunately as soon as my team and I approached, foes broke aggro. It seems this game would greatly improve having either with Humans, or without any aid. I definitely am looking forwards to GW2.

There is a build that goes something like this.

[Broad Head Arrow][Point Blank Shot][Zojun's Shot][Read the Wind] Blah blah blah

This build utilizes BHA to take down casters, and the spammability of PBS and Zojun's to effectively use BHA, as well as to hit hard against heavy armored foes. This build, albiet a bit dangerous considering distance, finds a balance in PvE. Often rangers aren't the first to be attacked, and if they do get attacked, a lot of good stances can help protect you for a reasonable amount of time.

Going back to what Magma said, I know one of my assumptions is already flawed. I am not great at this game so the idea of having multiple builds for multiple areas is too difficult for me. I am looking for a general build that I can adjust slightly if I keep failing at a goal. Each area has high armor and casters, are there really areas where you would bring anti caster over anti armor? or is it just when there are specific bosses that need interruption? How variable are these builds supposed to be?

I think I am starting to ramble now. Once again, thanks everyone for helping me so.