Ranger IAS

[Chthon]

Flail is nerfed. What now?

Flail (and everything else tied to Strength) can't be maintained.
Drunken Master is only 15% without booze.
Never Rampage alone costs 3 skillslots.
Tiger's/Bestial Fury requires a large Beast spec to maintain.
Heket's has an awful end condition.
Rampage as One is elite and takes 3 skillslots.
Expert's Dexterity is elite.
Lightning Reflexes can't be maintained.
Rapid Fire eats your prep slot and means no Volley/Barrage.
Flurry reduces damage.
Frenzy is expensive with no benefit from expertise on top of energy-based attacks.

Right now I'm leaning towards Drunken Master or Frenzy.

Thoughts?

[subarucar]

Frenzy is strong, bonetti's can be usefull as a cancel stance and as energy gain if using frenzy.

[Betrayer of Wind]

dwarven stability@r10 and lightning reflexes @14 expertise,thats 22 seconds of 75% block/33% IAS,8 seconds downtime.
If you dont have 2 slots and/or dont care about the block,drunken master is ok.
Not a big fan of frenzy since im used to frontline,also no cancel stance=gg

[marthaurion]

never frenzy alone, my friend

[Bobby2]

dwarven stability@r10 and lightning reflexes @14 expertise,thats 22 seconds of 75% block/33% IAS,8 seconds downtime.
I'm going with this as it's ridiculously powerful

[zelgadissan]

Personally I just throw a pet onto my Prep Shot build and use Never Rampage Alone.

[Penetrating Attack (PvE)][Sundering Attack (PvE)][Prepared Shot][Savage Shot][Distracting Shot][Read the Wind (PvE)][Never Rampage Alone][Charm Animal]

I keep [Revive Animal] on a hero because I can. Otherwise, I usually use a Expert's Dexterity build.

[Rhamia Darigaz]

for pvp [frenzy][bonetti's defense] is pretty cool
for pve [lightning reflexes][dwarven stability] is pretty damn good.

[Skyy High]

Dwarven Stability + Lightning Reflexes = best IAS you could hope for, for PvE.

[Shayne Hawke]

Or none, because Rangers don't needs IAS to be awesome in either format.

[upier]

My build of choice:
[build=OgESc5MTPGOGnSVg8aYHiewG]
14 E, 13 Marks.
(I need to get my hands on the +damage PvE ward.)

I love it how, when I walk into a PvP outpost and pretty much all my skills get a PvP version ... ;)

[pipo]

My build of choice:
[build=OgESc5MTPGOGnSVg8aYHiewG]
14 E, 13 Marks.
(I need to get my hands on the +damage PvE ward.)

I love it how, when I walk into a PvP outpost and pretty much all my skills get a PvP version ... ;)
Rtw + favorable winds arrow speed dont stack

[zelgadissan]

Rtw + favorable winds arrow speed dont stack

True, but +damages stack. Personally to me it's not worth the 5s casting time every time I switch mobs, but to each their own. I'm also assuming Favorable would be what gets tossed for the Battle Standard of Honor.

BTW Upier, you use one interrupt and it's Dshot and not Savage (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10339470)?

[TheodenKing]

Or none, because Rangers don't needs IAS to be awesome in either format.

I agree. In pve, my ranger kills most single targets the first time through his skillbar... he doesn't need IAS. I do sometimes include [lightning reflexes] for the blocking + IAS in one skill slot. For example, if I'm vanquishing with discordway heroes, I typically run an [assassin's promise] build, and AP recharges stances nicely so I can pretty much be 75% block, +33% IAS all the time.

[Bobby2]

BTW Upier, you use one interrupt and it's Dshot and not Savage (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10339470)?

Ooh, good eye :evil:

[upier]

Rtw + favorable winds arrow speed dont stack
I run around with a bunch of rangers mostly. And the hench bars suck. :(
So I figured I'd run it until I get the ward. Plus as Zelgy pointed out - due to it's activation time, I mostly just put it down for big battles. When it's not replaced by Capture Siggy.


(Edit:
So wiki is wrong on this subject? Because it's stated there that they do stack. I never paid attention because I ran around with other guys that needed it also ... so thanks for the info!)

BTW Upier, you use one interrupt and it's Dshot and not Savage (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10339470)?
I know. :(
I REALLY want to run Savage. But the energy is an issue, so if I were to run Savage, I would be spamming Sundering/Penetrating less.
And interrupts just aren't worth that.
So yeah, it's not what I want to run, but it's price was always DShot's selling point.

[Chthon]

[lightning reflexes][dwarven stability]

This I can't agree with.

2 skillslots. That's very expensive, and I don't think LR delivers enough to justify it.

33% IAS with 1/3 downtime is really 22% IAS over the long haul. That's worse than 25%, and not terribly much better than Drunken Master's 15%. (Heck, energy cost aside, you could run Tiger's Fury + Bestial Fury at low beast spec and get better IAS for the same 2 skillslots...)

It seems the other great draw is the 75% block. That's nice, but block is only slightly more useful to a ranger than a fire drill is to an Eskimo. The combination of ranged attacks and always standing next to lower-armored casters tends to make rangers very rarely targeted. And the less targeted you are, the less valuable block is for you. I might even go so far as to say that the block is so unimportant for a ranger that one should look at LR as if it were a pure IAS skill with no secondary effect.

[_Nihilist_]

Brave Rangers use Frenzy, just like Brave Warriors.

Besides, as you pointed out, you're standing with Squishies, Frenzy or no Frenzy, you shouldn't get targeted that much. I love casters, they're good for losing aggro! ::hides::

[Chthon]

Brave Rangers use Frenzy, just like Brave Warriors.

Besides, as you pointed out, you're standing with Squishies, Frenzy or no Frenzy, you shouldn't get targeted that much. I love casters, they're good for losing aggro! ::hides::

I totally agree with you that the double damage from Frenzy is not a big concern for a ranger.

What bothers me is the energy cost. 5e every 8sec is really pricey on 3 pips. While warriors manage it on just 2 pips, most of the rest of their bars are adrenaline-based and sword/axe/multi-hit attacks allow them to get more out energy faster of a zealous weapon swap. I have trouble making ranger builds using Frenzy where energy doesn't become problem.

[Taurean]

If you wanna have [frenzy] you almost have to have a energy-gaining skill.. like [Prepared shot] or co-work with your team to inflict Cracked armor and use [Body shot]

[jackerduud]

This I can't agree with.

2 skillslots. That's very expensive, and I don't think LR delivers enough to justify it.

A normal IAS + A normal block = 2 skillslots aswell.

33% IAS with 1/3 downtime is really 22% IAS over the long haul. That's worse than 25%, and not terribly much better than Drunken Master's 15%. (Heck, energy cost aside, you could run Tiger's Fury + Bestial Fury at low beast spec and get better IAS for the same 2 skillslots...)

"Over the long haul". That is not how PvE works, you don't get a steady stream of opponents running to you all the time you're outside of an outpost. While Vanquishing, it always takes me about 10+sec to move my party to the next mob, in which case i wouldn't need perma IAS.

It seems the other great draw is the 75% block. That's nice, but block is only slightly more useful to a ranger than a fire drill is to an Eskimo. The combination of ranged attacks and always standing next to lower-armored casters tends to make rangers very rarely targeted.

Scythes are awesome. Lately i've only been vanquishing with a Wounding Strike scythe build, modded with Asuran Scan to meet Discords requirements. Frontliner - Aggroing - Lots of angry mobs swinging clubs at you.


Also, if i post my whole story inside someone's quote, i need to:
12char

[Chthon]

If you wanna have [frenzy] you almost have to have a energy-gaining skill.. like [Prepared shot] or co-work with your team to inflict Cracked armor and use [Body shot]

Prep Shot is elite. That means giving up BHA. And that in turn means giving up what is usually the only strong reason for the party to bring a ranger instead of another class.

[Edit: I think I spoke too soon. Prep Shot can support Concussion Shot spam, which is arguably on par with BHA, if you've got the recurve bow, connection speed, and reflex speed to reliably hit stuff.]


I'd been thinking about body shot too, so I gave it an extensive test last night. It didn't work so well. It works on paper, but, in practice, the timing doesn't work out often enough that you still come up short.

I also gave a long test to Drunken Master -- it works, tentatively the best option -- and Never Rampage Alone -- it works, but you basically waste 2 other skill slots to get it.

Scythes are awesome.

Riiiiiight..... OK then, I'm just going to say that this thread is about IAS for bow rangers only and not even address the rest of that post.

[jackerduud]

Riiiiiight..... OK then, I'm just going to say that this thread is about IAS for bow rangers only and not even address the rest of that post.

Yeeaaaahhh.. Discard the fact that the rest of the post concerns Bow rangers just the same...

Edit: And...

When H/H vanquishing, it doesn't matter which weapon i use, i still like to pull and pile mobs up myself, instead of sending MoW to do it. Hence, in addition to the +30AL vs Elemental damage that helps, the block is useful aswell.

[Chthon]

Yeeaaaahhh.. Discard the fact that the rest of the post concerns Bow rangers just the same...

I was trying to politely sidestep the fact that the entire post was idiotic and give you an easy way out of the conversation. But, since you insist...

A normal IAS + A normal block = 2 skillslots aswell.

Rangers don't bring block. Not worth a skillslot on a mid-high-armor backline character. Your choice to convert a mid-high-armor backline character into a frontline character (a) is dumb, and (b) doesn't apply to those of us who don't make the same dumb choice.

"Over the long haul". That is not how PvE works, you don't get a steady stream of opponents running to you all the time you're outside of an outpost.

Are you saying that you kill every mob before your 20sec IAS runs out? I find that very hard to believe. In fact, since you're running a scythe ranger with discordway, I'd hazard a guess that you're probably not killing much faster than 1foe/3sec and rarely kill a whole mob in 20sec.

If your IAS isn't maintainable for the duration of the hardest mob you expect to face, then its value needs to be discounted to account for that fact.

While Vanquishing, it always takes me about 10+sec to move my party to the next mob, in which case i wouldn't need perma IAS.

Unless you decline to recast LR mid-battle, there's no guarantee that the inter-mob move time coincides with the downtime on LR.

Scythes are awesome.

Oh yes, a weapon skilline that relies on oodles of near-worthless armor-sensitive damage with a collection of weak attack skills and a near-mandatory PvE skill that prevents it from working with 3 of the best damage buffs available is truly awesome. Oh wait, no it's not. Scythes stink. Even if they didn't stink, they're much, much more effective on a Warrior (strength and non-sucky strength-based attack skills), Sin (criticals), or Dervish (mastery > 12) than a Ranger.