Why Beastmaster not good/great in PvE?

[whathappenus]

(new player here) I been leveling my beast master following roughly the build from the sticky (Beast Mastery: 12 + 1 + 1, Marksmanship: 8 + 1, Expertise: 10 + 1). So far so good (at level 8; original campaign). But was browsing through the great and good PvE builds in PvXwiki and found that the Beast Master is not one of them. I have seen elsewhere kind of bad comments about Beast Masters but not details. I would have thought that with skills like Comfort Animal and call of protection the pet would be a decent tank and perhaps this build would be a decent PvE farmer too. Any comment appreciated.

[Felixious]

People think that a ranger with a marksmanship based build who brings charm/comfort to use his pet is bad, however, there are dedicated BM builds that work wonders. Pets are useful, depending on what build you bring to compliment it.

[Voodoo Rage]

You know I completed all the campaigns on my original ranger running around with a pet. Yeah, maybe you won't take him to the elite areas but do whatever is enjoyable for you.

[gunster]

PvXWiki should not be ur guideline for good/bad builds. And like Felix said, dedicated BM builds can be good.

[Skyy High]

In normal PvE, if you want to run a beastmaster, go right ahead. People generally don't think it's a good idea because of the attribute spread, and the fact that just to run a pet requires the use of two skills on your bar, leaving little open for your actual build, but it's doable. Just remember to micromanage your pet's target, it'll get him on the guy you want him on much faster.

[Captain Bulldozer]

PvXWiki should not be ur guideline for good/bad builds. And like Felix said, dedicated BM builds can be good.


QFT. While PvX CAN be a really good source of builds, its also full of trolls who trash any build they don't like, usually without actually even testing it. Also, a lot of people there want to only list the "best" possible builds, not those that can simply be somewhat effective or just plain fun to play. Plenty of the "great" builds on PvX are not especially great, while some of the trashed builds can work wonders.

As for a beast master, this is one that can be quite fun to play. It can also work very well when complimented with the right hero builds, like perhaps some minion bombers or maybe a discord setup. Bottom line is, if you like playing beast master and you're able to complete whatever you set out to complete, don't let anyone tell you not to play it.

[Chthon]

1. Hybrid bow/pet (or spear/pet) builds tend towards non-optimality because of the cost in skill slots -- two skill slots just to have the pet at all -- and the attribute cost -- high investment required in a line that has no weapon and no e-management. Almost any build of this sort could be improved by using those two slots for something else and consolidating the attributes.

2. Dedicated beatmasters using enraged lunge are actually very, very good single-target damage dealers. However, being a single-target damage dealer doesn't mean a heck of a lot in PvE.

[Dagger Deathbane]

You know I completed all the campaigns on my original ranger running around with a pet. Yeah, maybe you won't take him to the elite areas but do whatever is enjoyable for you.

I haven't played GW for almost ayear now, and i only started to play it again yesterday, but I'm pretty sure that people used to do Urgoz (the kurzick elite mission i think) with rangers using pets. So they are (or atleast were) useful in elite missions too.

[Fay Vert]

Not any more they don't. It would have helped if Izzy didn't nerf the heck out of BMs time after time because of gimick PvP builds. Now that PvP is split from PvE skill wise, they are too damned lazy to un-nerf them so BMs are heavily gimped.

I too played all of prophesies with my pet, but I can't recall the last time I brough Spoof along with me.

[Faure]

QFT. While PvX CAN be a really good source of builds, its also full of trolls who trash any build they don't like, usually without actually even testing it. Also, a lot of people there want to only list the "best" possible builds, not those that can simply be somewhat effective or just plain fun to play. Plenty of the "great" builds on PvX are not especially great, while some of the trashed builds can work wonders.

As for a beast master, this is one that can be quite fun to play. It can also work very well when complimented with the right hero builds, like perhaps some minion bombers or maybe a discord setup. Bottom line is, if you like playing beast master and you're able to complete whatever you set out to complete, don't let anyone tell you not to play it.
qft again.
The most builds I played over the years are probably in the other/good sections =).

As for a beastmaster build;

I used to run http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:R/any_Tank_Master

Had great fun with it, just because you could stand far away, using a bow (or spear if you go /p) while the pet did all the work. I normally took out the wilderniss survival part to invest in a weapon attribute (as mentioned, marksmanship or spear mastery), since most of the time you'll be playing with monks aside.

It's in the outdated section, though i'm not sure why. (i haven't played for a while so there might have been updates that made this build not viable anymore)

[Skyy High]

BMs never really got nerfed skill-wise, it was the pet corpse thing that everyone complained about. Disrupting lunge is just about the only BM skill I can think of that PvE beastmasters would use that took it heavily on the nose.

[Necromas]

I'd probably go with a spear and a focus item, and split my points between BM, Expertise, and Spear Mastery, or just do a good old bunny thumper.

Not using a bow lets you bring a couple adrenaline attacks without draining the energy needed for your BM skills. [[Tiger's Fury] is a great way to fuel enraged lunge so you don't have to bring all those calls if you don't want to (it will put comfort animal, charm animal, and tiger's fury on recharge).

A thumper would probably do the most DPS, but your tank build sure can absorb a lot of damage. I would go with a spear and some adrenaline based spear attack instead of [[Troll unguent] for a little more dps, and it lets you trigger things like [[Anthem of Flame] with your spear and will trigger things like [[Barbs] or weapon spells faster with the higher attack speed. Of course with the spear you also free up a hand to take a focus item or shield for 6 more enegry or 8 more armor, and the modification slots.

And [[Enraged Lunge] thumper would go something like this...

Beast Mastery: 11+1+1
Expertise: 10+1
Hammer Mastery: 10
[Yeti Smash] [Hammer Bash] [Crushing Blow] [Optional] [Enraged Lunge] [Tiger's Fury] [Comfort Animal] [Charm Animal]

For the optional slot take whatever pet attack you want, [[Bestial Mauling] has nice synergy, or one of the shouts (but make sure you time the shout well with [[Tiger's Fury]). Like has been said this build does great single target damage, which I do not think is quite so useless in PvE, knockdowns are always good against bosses (that can be knocked down), and there is a tiny bit of AoE in there. Or if you don't mind being a little gimmicky, take an overpowered PvE skill.

One saving grace of beast mastery builds in the current metagame is that with things like [[Mark of Pain] becoming more popular, being able to provide the party with 2 sources of physical damage is a nice advantage.

[Redvex]

Beastmastery have some disadvantage:

1) Two Slot skills
2) If pet dies your abilities are disabled for certain amount of seconds
3) Slow. Pet can be body blocked or slow to reach the target and begin to attack.


It's only worth as support and fun using spear mastery + never rampage alone in pve but....he need without a dubt some buff.
Idea?
Charm animal: if you have an animal and it's dead it be teleported to your location with 10% of his health.
So you have a free slot.

[Amy Awien]

(2) is hardly an argument, on a decent bar and with H&H pets should rarely, if ever die.

Pets are ok in PvE - can tank it out quite well - and hybrid bow + pet or hybrid spear + pet beastmaster fine. Experiment and enjoy.

[BrettM]

I run a beastmaster ranger with a pure BM build -- 12+1+3 BM, 12+1 Expertise. No bow or spear, but a staff with +20e (Insightful head, Hale & Hearty inscription). So far I have completed Prophecies with this, Factions through Eternal Grove, Nightfall through Grand Court, and EotN through the Vanguard and Norn portions. Plus, I've vanquished a handful of 4- and 6-man areas in Tyria and Cantha.

Playing BM is fun and I greatly enjoy it. For my next trick I'm going to take a full team of hero beastmasters, also equipped with staves, into the Asura territories.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/BrettM/GuildWars/th_BIRDTeam20090209.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/BrettM/GuildWars/BIRDTeam20090209.jpg)

However, there are some frustrations due to slow pet reaction time and the lack of skills allowing the pet to do AoE damage. (Melee classes all have AoE skills available. Why not pets?) Single-target damage can be high, though not quite war or derv level, but ... call a target, wait 2 sec for the pet to decide to go to it, wait while the pet runs to the target, wait 2 sec while the pet decides to attack the target (if the target hasn't run away by then) ... And, once the target is down, the pet starts heading back to you instead of picking a new target. Call the new target, wait 2 sec while the pet decides to turn around, wait while the pet runs back to the fray, wait 2 sec while ... :)

If you're enjoying running a pet as a ranger, don't let anyone put you off it.

[Necromas]

Locking the pets target using their hero window thing goes a long way to avoiding downtime with them acting stupid.

[Redvex]

I run a beastmaster ranger with a pure BM build -- 12+1+3 BM, 12+1 Expertise. No bow or spear, but a staff with +20e (Insightful head, Hale & Hearty inscription). So far I have completed Prophecies with this, Factions through Eternal Grove, Nightfall through Grand Court, and EotN through the Vanguard and Norn portions. Plus, I've vanquished a handful of 4- and 6-man areas in Tyria and Cantha.

Playing BM is fun and I greatly enjoy it. For my next trick I'm going to take a full team of hero beastmasters, also equipped with staves, into the Asura territories.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/BrettM/GuildWars/th_BIRDTeam20090209.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v175/BrettM/GuildWars/BIRDTeam20090209.jpg)

However, there are some frustrations due to slow pet reaction time and the lack of skills allowing the pet to do AoE damage. (Melee classes all have AoE skills available. Why not pets?) Single-target damage can be high, though not quite war or derv level, but ... call a target, wait 2 sec for the pet to decide to go to it, wait while the pet runs to the target, wait 2 sec while the pet decides to attack the target (if the target hasn't run away by then) ... And, once the target is down, the pet starts heading back to you instead of picking a new target. Call the new target, wait 2 sec while the pet decides to turn around, wait while the pet runs back to the fray, wait 2 sec while ... :)

If you're enjoying running a pet as a ranger, don't let anyone put you off it.

One AoE Attack exist [Melandru's Assault]
[Never Rampage Alone] helps a little
but i'm agree with you

[BrettM]

One AoE Attack exist [Melandru's Assault]
[Never Rampage Alone] helps a little
but i'm agree with you
[Never Rampage Alone] doesn't help very much when you carry a staff. Wanding faster is not going to do a whole lot for you. :) [Call of Haste] or [Feral Aggression] work better in my case.

[Melandru's Assault] will have a place on my bar when they fix it to remove the condition, increasing the recharge to compensate. Otherwise it's mostly expensive dead weight. [Brutal Strike] is far more useful a way to spend 10e, IMO.

[Cirian]

Packhunters (R/P) are decent in PvE. Two PvE-only things they get in particular are Spear of Fury and Never Rampage Alone, which make a solid start to a conditions and pressure build.


A couple of skills I'd add to those would be Blazing Spear, Scavenger Strike and Run as One.


The attacks give you a bit of spike Blazing Spear->Spear of Fury+Scavenger Strike->Blazing Spear, and the run boost is to aid you and your pet in and out of combat.


Scavenger Strike isn't up to date in the mouse-over description, it's a damage and energy management attack now you can use to fuel something additional like... Brutal Strike or whatever. There are options to add bleeding, poison or deep wound.


Elite-wise, it's typically Heal as One for me if I have a pet.

[Orange Milk]

Brett I hope you use [Great Dwarf Weapon] on your pet.

That plus [Ferocious Strike] are nice combo.

I still prefer Bunny Thumper builds though when I'm with my pet.

Between [Never Rampage Alone][Hammer Bash]and [Great Dwarf Weapon] on my pet it's easy enough to perma KD a bad guy.

[BrettM]

Brett I hope you use [Great Dwarf Weapon] on your pet.
I haven't gotten that skill on my ranger yet. Now that he's reached Olafstead he needs to pick up the Battledepths quests and do some dungeons to get his Deldrimor rep up. I need one more Destroyer Core to get him Light of Deldrimor.

I really wish the UI had a command for instantly targeting your pet, or for cycling through the pets of a party, that I could bind to keys. Getting GDW on several pets would be sweet. Another thing I haven't tried yet is taking a smiting monk or rit hero with some melee buffs and see if they will cast them on a pet. Pets doing holy damage would be pretty useful when I hit SoO! :)

[Voodoo Rage]

I was playing a Mark of Pain / Assassin's Promise necro and I brought along Zenmai set up as a critical barrager w/ a pet. Other than the pet causing unwanted aggro sometimes, the pet did seem relatively effective at holding aggro and providing an additional physical attack to activate my hex. This seemed actually more effective than waiting for a minion army to eventually wander over to the enemy since in NM I was clearing most of the mobs before the minions did anything other than mop up a last remaining ranger.

[AnnonSeek]

I have always loved the Ranger class and having a pet is always a plus. I found a build the other day I really want to try.

Beastmastery 12 (10 + 2)
Expertise 9 (8 + 1)
Scythe Mastery 12

Strike as One {Elite}
Reap Impurities
Victorious Sweep
Scavenger Strike
Bestial Fury
Charm Animal
Companionship
Resurrection Signet

[infamous16]

I have always loved the Ranger class and having a pet is always a plus. I found a build the other day I really want to try.

Beastmastery 12 (10 + 2)
Expertise 9 (8 + 1)
Scythe Mastery 12

[Strike as One] {Elite}
[Reap Impurities]
[Victorious Sweep]
[Scavenger Strike]
[Bestial Fury]
[Charm Animal]
[Companionship]
[Resurrection Signet]

fixed :)

looks alright

[Lourens]

Its all about personal taste either you want to play a sniper or a lumberjacker with its loyal dog