RtW Nerf.

[II Haruki II]

PvP

Ranger

* Read the Wind: functionality changed to: "For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast."

Why? The nerf to flail was understandable and expected, and all that was needed. I don't think anybody believed that ranger damage was too high alone, but because of flail providing a constant increase of 33% to attack speed. Why not just fix flail, leave RtW, and if rangers are still too ubersauce then nerf the skill.

Discuss/Opinions?

[tmakinen]

Because rangers are not supposed to be about DPS? RtW is there to make dodging harder and interrupting easier and neither of the two functions was affected by the nerf. Take Expert Focus if you want damage?

[FoxBat]

People run /mo mending touch turrets as split characters, so no, flail wasn't the whole story.

Their pressure is (was) awesome but overrated. The key that made them viable in GvG is the 2s->1s->1/2s spike chain. Given that is still around, I'm not sure they are truly dead, but losing supereasy interrupts and flatbow attack speed is going to hurt.

[FlexBuffchest45]

[read the wind] was fine as it was, just a version of [favorable winds] that allowed for greater mobility. If the goal was to decrease bow ranger DPS, [burning arrow] should have gotten bitch slapped with the nerf bat. It is one of two skills that at 14 att. points inflicts an unconditional 7 seconds of burning. The other one? [searing flames] , an ele skill that is only powerful when the ele specs in FIRE magic. Ok, that's understandable, but a ranger with a bow can also inflict that unconditional burning duration with an additional +29 dmg (at 14 att. again)? Just doesn't register with me.

There's a reason it was called the "BA Turret", not the "whatever elite you want turret". [burning arrow], for 4e you can unleash rediculous hell every 5 seconds. Not cool in my opinion. BA should have the burning duration decreased or made conditional.

BTW, nerf to flail was a good idea imo.

[turbo234]

if it makes you feel any better you can still turret in the all amazing pve.

[Killed u man]

Rangers shouldn't have acces to lol-wtf damage...

If only people realized spiking shit down, which is still doable, with 2 rangers and a DW isn't balanced, Rangers would recieve far more nerfs than just RtW...

Get over it, you got 50+ overpowered rangers skills to choose from, take your pick...

As for PvE, does RtW even matter? All PvE rangers do is Barrage anyways?

[Aldric]

I can see why [RTW][Flail] and Turrets in general have been nerfed as they did have a bit too much firepower combined with the other ranger benefits .

Shouldnt effect me at all though , its very rare i used either in PVE or in my brief forays into PVP


As for PvE, does RtW even matter? All PvE rangers do is Barrage anyways?

The Troll forum skill needs a buff , its pitiful how weak its become these days...

[Taurean]

If they nerf RtW, i will personally hack gw and reset it ^^ It's a most useful skill. Flatbows becomes much more effective with it.

[Thistle Berry]

Does rtw matter in pve? Why, of course it does! IN PRE! Don't be forgetting pre, man. That's some awesome stuff.

[Skyy High]

Pssh, I run Discordway with a turret ranger packing Asuran Scan, nearly instant set-up and much easier on my energy than YMLAD!, and I hit for anywhere between 100 to 150 per hit on casters in HM, depending on what other buffs I'm running. So, yeah, rangers do use RtW in PvE.

[distilledwill]

If they nerf RtW, i will personally hack gw and reset it ^^ It's a most useful skill. Flatbows becomes much more effective with it.


You had best get hacking my friend:
Read the Wind: functionality changed to: "For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast."

Its only PvP anyway, it was necassery in my opinion.

[FaiLeD]

Because rangers are not supposed to be about DPS? RtW is there to make dodging harder and interrupting easier and neither of the two functions was affected by the nerf. Take Expert Focus if you want damage?

I totaly agree with you 100%. I really don't thing the nerf was that bad for RtW.

[Gift3d]

You gotta look at what's being done here.

Mostly all of the PvP skill updates are based around GvG and GvG only. GvG meta was rawrspike - wiki it - it was nerfed to shit. Yes, izzy has his priorities straight by focusing on only gvg and leaving HA and HB broken as all hell.

[distilledwill]

You gotta look at what's being done here.

Mostly all of the PvP skill updates are based around GvG and GvG only. GvG meta was rawrspike - wiki it - it was nerfed to shit. Yes, izzy has his priorities straight by focusing on only gvg and leaving HA and HB broken as all hell.

Its not entirely true that he ignored HA, he did nerf WoW - makes protting the ghostly a little harder. Nonetheless, HB is still stupidly broken, stance monks were one of the ways to combat stupidly powerful assassin builds (palm strike particularly, but also wastrels collapse, coward and YAA). Furthermore, he pushed out PR and RtW/Flail - the only two skills that kept other players rather than the normal Mo/As and A/Ws in the HB meta.

[Killed u man]

Its not entirely true that he ignored HA, he did nerf WoW - makes protting the ghostly a little harder..

The sole reason for that nerf is the Rt/A flagger being able to to keep an intire base, and himself obv, alive against 2+ gankers due to the fact that WoW = stay alive mode...

The Rt/A was an uncounterable (Ok, Interrupts counter EVERYTHING, so if you say you can dshot it, NOTHING is overpowered. -but 0 activation skills and stances-) base defender...


HA got ignored as usual, but offcourse the update AFFECTS HA, but that's simply because some of those skills happened to get abused in HA. But the update clearly was purely GvG...

[MasterSasori]

No RTW NEEDED to be nerfed.

Rangers are not meant to be DPS. RTW with the Flatbow was ridiculous: It's instant interrupt madness, unkiteable, huge range, +DPS, more IAS compared to recurve, and the RTW allows you to not put anything into Wilderness Survival which means higher Marksmenship.

The BA Turret put way too much pressure on monks and spellcasters. Even against non-casters, they were very formidable. What you have here is a pain in the neck for non-spellcasters and a nightmare for spellcasters.

If you played one or played against one, you'd know what I'm talking about.

[Taurean]

You had best get hacking my friend:
Read the Wind: functionality changed to: "For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast."

Its only PvP anyway, it was necassery in my opinion.

Okay - I didn't realize that =) I don't play pvp.. yet, anyway..

[Fay Vert]

Who says rangers are not meant for DPS?

People keep trotting that old chestnut out time after time. Yet ignore the fact that many ranger skills do damage. Ranger isn't just about utility, its about versatility, and so long as the balance is right, there is n reason why a ranger shouldnt spec for damage if he is willing to give up some utility too.

To say rangers are not meant for DPS is just silly and has no basis in reality.

[Tyla]

Rangers were simply too versatile for their own good. This was one of many that needed to be hit.

[prepared shot][expert focus][sundering attack][penetrating attack][no skill][no skill][no skill][no skill]

Besides, that bar should do enough damage for your liking. Penetrating and Sundering each have a fair amount of +damage and recharge.

Rangers already have damage, nerfing it is a good idea considering that along with that oh-so-awesome utility (D-Shot, cheap and activel usable snares, strong condition removal, energy management with little to compare to in strength, a decent amount of damage without all of the rest...)

[MasterSasori]

Who says rangers are not meant for DPS?

People keep trotting that old chestnut out time after time. Yet ignore the fact that many ranger skills do damage. Ranger isn't just about utility, its about versatility, and so long as the balance is right, there is n reason why a ranger shouldnt spec for damage if he is willing to give up some utility too.

To say rangers are not meant for DPS is just silly and has no basis in reality.


True, a ranger can go for DPS but there should be big sacrifices that should be made. The BA turret made barely any sacrifices for that huge DPS.

A monk can go for damage too, but they'd have to spec into Smite and we all know that they are nowhere near as effective as a WoH hybrid monk in terms of healing and prot. Rangers should be making that big of a sacrifice in order to do the DPS they had originally.

[Fay Vert]

Rangers should be making that big of a sacrifice in order to do the DPS they had originally.

Absolutely. Its a shame that many can't grasp that concept but instead come out with the rangers aren't meant to do damage rubbish. The monk example is a good one, most monks in JQ are there just to exploit the imba that is Ray of Judgement, but you don't get people saying monks aren't meant for dps, yet in JQ the monks make Eles rather pointless.

[Lusciious]

yay no more rtw rangers ? monking will be much easier :)

[Balky]

[Expert Focus] [Favorable Winds] and experts dexterity, problem solved

[zling]

[Expert Focus] [Favorable Winds] and experts dexterity, problem solved

lol, [expert's dexterity] is elite, [burning arrow] and [melandru's shot] are also elites, so you cant use both :eek:
so "problem solved" just doesnt cut it :ninja:

as for the [read the wind] nerf. I dont think [read the wind] was the problem, it was [flail] which got fixed and the combination of [burning arrow]/[melandru's shot] with the 1 sec [hunter's shot] followed by the 1/2 sec [savage shot] for a huge spike. [read the wind] just added some damage to it, but the main problem is still the elites and hunter's...

[MasterSasori]

as for the [read the wind] nerf. I dont think [read the wind] was the problem

No it really is and arguably more than flail too. RTW gave absolutely no arch on bow flight time, which means more accurate interrupting, which IMO, is the biggest threat a ranger can do. Even recurve has an arch and kitable if you're good. RTW is like impossible to kite from.

RTW also affects IAS indirectly as well - with the use of the flatbow. This means more IAS at a greater range. Flail only increased IAS (which is indeed powerful) but not flight time, extra range, armor ignoring damage, more accurate interrupt and bar compression as you need a prep anyway but not another stance assuming you're using LR.