Variable hero?

[Railin]

I'm seeing a lot of posts about people wanting Razah to be a variable hero, or to make another hero that can have different primary professions. When Razah was announced to be Ritualist a lot of people were dissapointed because they wanted a variable hero.

What I'm wondering.. what's so GOOD about having a hero that can change his primary profession? If you can already have 2 heroes for almost every profession, why need a third one? Wouldn't that bring a lot of trouble with it?

You would have to change his weapon every time you change his primary profession, and probably the runes too.. since they won't work with another profession. And since you can't take off/craft hero armors.. you'd have to keep salvaging the runes from them after you changed it... and then change back. Basically if you quickly wanted a necromancer you could've just used Master of Whispers or Olias instead of changing Razah's runes, weapons, etc just because you wanted to use him.

The only thing about a variable hero I can think of that's good is that it makes you look cool for having one. Until everyone gets them and it's just another hero that everyone uses. Having 50 attributes extra for example for being an "elite" hero would be cool, but that would unbalance the game and that's not going to happen.

So.. anyone know what's actually so great about a "variable" hero?

[Knightsaber Sith]

I think one of the main reason would be just for being able to run niche builds. Like you could make him a third ranger or something. That and the general novelty of it.

[MithranArkanere]

That's it.

If you are ele, you have 2 eles, with the variable as another ele... you can make a 4 ele Searing Flames spike army, XD

[Nimrod EX]

yeah...like you could make a trapper team and not be a ranger :P

[Coridan]

What i think is bad about him being a Rit is for people (like me) that don't have factions...so basically the "elite" hero is worthless to me....total BS if you ask me. What they should do is allow you to have a ONE time pick of his primary profession...once u pick it you are stuck with it...

[Haggard]

Now that you mention it, I can't see any real advantages. Just seemed cool at the time.

[Shadis]

I kinda wondered if "Variable" only meant he'd be a clone of your character. Since he's "formed from the mists" and such things need a "suitable human template" or something to that effect.

[reetkever]

It's good because you can change it to your likings. If you need a third monk, Razah could become one, after that you need a second mesmer (I really need a second mesmer btw), Razah could just change.


The one profession that my Razah would NEVER be, is a Ritualist... Except now then...

[Maria The Princess]

im kind of happy with the Rit hero. i felt like rits were a class that was "forgotten" in NF, i feel bad for all those rits who came to NF and saw that there is only 2 armor sets (i love buying armors, and i know many other do as well) and kind of weak elites.

they deserve their own hero (heck, we have assassin hero!)

about the primary profession changing hero... would be handy, but ya... runes and armor chnaging would be such a hassle i would just make him 1 permanent profession (never change) cuz most of the time you dont need more then 2 characters on the same class in a party, unless you are runing some farming thing (only 1 i can think of is B/P teams and searing flames eles atm)

oh ya, there is 2 heroes of each class availble btw...

[Lets Get to Healing]

oh ya, there is 2 heroes of each class availble btw...

There's only one Assassin and Mesmer hero.

[Eviance]

Point is, why NOT a variable hero? He STILL could have been a rit when you wanted him to be or something else when you didn't.

[crimsonfilms]

Not variable because how would you manage the armor, the runes, the inscriptions, the insignias, the weapons, etc?

Anet would need to write some kind of system just to manage one NPC. Creating skin is easy - but writing code is very difficult and time consuming.

[Arkantos]

Whats not good about a variable hero?

[gamecube187]

oh ya, there is 2 heroes of each class availble btw...

There's only one Assassin and Mesmer hero.

And (before Razah) no ritualists. Now, we have only one assassin, mesmer, and rit.

Oh ya, there is only one dervish and one paragon hero too.

Man, a variable Razah just keeps seeming better and better...

Oh ya, OP, the point of a variable hero is so we can have more variable of builds, as in, at least two heros for every class (except rit) (and even three heros for some classes)

[CyberNigma]

yeah my guess is that was the idea but they couldn't get it to work. with the backlash from part of the vocal community over not releasing the full game at once, I'm sure they were under pressure to get him out one way or another. the interface doeszn't really support a variable class hero I suppose.

[Etrik]

3 Monk heroes so I'm sure I won't die because Khim drained her E spamming ZB on people @ 95 health. Please. Give. Me. A. Variable. Hero. [Not for free, ofc]

[mlandry]

meh, just happy to finally get a rit hero... or the possibility to get it i should say...

[Curse You]

I want my necro to be able to form a 4 man B-Spike team! :p

Also, having 3 elementalists is always fun :D

[Hand of Ruin]

What i think is bad about him being a Rit is for people (like me) that don't have factions...so basically the "elite" hero is worthless to me....total BS if you ask me. What they should do is allow you to have a ONE time pick of his primary profession...once u pick it you are stuck with it...

There are ritualist skills in Elona, but I agree. It's a real problem that was over-looked and one more reason to make him variable.

[Mr_T_bot]

It wouldn't have been impossible to make him variable, but it would have required changing a good bit of stuff, and he is a plain Ritualist. And as the only Ritualist he should be made easier get imo

[countesscorpula]

Razah as rit = not such a great idea.

If one doesn't own factions, and there are a few out there who don't, Razah is suddenly extremely limited. For example, there are only 2 non elite communing skills s/he can equip. And as s/he can only use one elite, that means no more than 3 communing skills on his/her bar ever. THere are only three restoration skills (not including elites), and four channelling. S/He is a permanently stunted "elite prize" in his/her current state. REMEMBER: There are no CORE skills for rits and sins.

If you didn't have factions you would have no Sin hero, and with no factions, you shouldn't be saddled with a Rit hero either. Making Razah a rit hero was ill-conceived. Clearly slapped together at the last minute in a hack kneed fashion. The manual said Razah was to be variable. I think that is one of the principal beefs. "This is what you will get with the game... (sshhh wait for them to buy it)... JUST KIDDING!!! Ha ha ha. Wasn't that funny kids? You thought you were getting something really neat, but instead you get something you can't effectively use unless you buy or have bought this other product. What do you mean you don't get it?"

so i guess the yolks on us.

[ValaOfTheFens]

Being able to change a hero's primary profession would be invaluble because you'd have access to that primary's primary attribute. Example, you need an Elementalist Searing Flames spammer but can't find one. You could just change your hero's primary attribute to Ele, set the Fire Magic and Energy Storage to 12, and you're in business. The thing is that you wouldn't be able to put runes or insignia on that hero's armor because you'd constantly be changing their primary profession.

[countesscorpula]

Sup Vigor, Attunement, Vitae, Reduce poison and dease 20%, reduce bleeding and crip 20%. There you have it, five runes you can permanently leave on Raz. There are generic insignias too.

Also, changing runes isn't that big of a deal. I am forever changing Norgu from Dom to Ill, which means peal one rune off his head and stick on another.

[Angel Netherborn]

Point is, why NOT a variable hero? He STILL could have been a rit when you wanted him to be or something else when you didn't.
Whats not good about a variable hero?
What about it being a waste of developers' time and resources? The whole of GW codebase probably doesn't allow for and does not expect a variable primary profession for a character. Refactoring it something that does, plus all the necessary supporting changes (armor, attributes, handling equipment, animation, etc.), could likely too much work. Not to mention all the potential bugs this might cause, and all for ONE hero, since I doubt Anet's going to consider allowing all our characters to change primary prof.

[generik]

What about it being a waste of developers' time and resources? The whole of GW codebase probably doesn't allow for and does not expect a variable primary profession for a character. Refactoring it something that does, plus all the necessary supporting changes (armor, attributes, handling equipment, animation, etc.), could likely too much work. Not to mention all the potential bugs this might cause, and all for ONE hero, since I doubt Anet's going to consider allowing all our characters to change primary prof.

If that is the case why not just ship an empty box?

Because actually including a game in the box is *gasp* a waste of developers' time and resources! Time that they can better spend in Cajun basking in the sun and eating caviar! If there is so much contention for developers' time, perhaps Anet should do something like actually, you know, hiring more developers? I don't see a single construction worker building a skyscraper, why is Anet doing that?

I don't see how this is hard to implement really, probably just a weekend's effort. And the best path for them to take would be to implement the suggested "Smart armor system" and it would be trivially easy. Of course Anet being so anal is probably worried about how our smart armors is going to cost them 0.01 cents of storage space per account.

Which part of false advertising do you know read? The manual clearly says it is variable, it is not. Duh... So the game is not what it is touted to be. Hmmm, is it really so hard to comprehend?

[frojack]

So what? Someone doesn't own Factions so a Rit hero is pointless. Last I checked, same goes for the assassin. Don't see anyone complaining about that, and who said you needed to use all of your heroes anyway? Last I checked, this one is actually an 'extra' in a stupidly hard special area. This is just Pokemon in GW...
Fair enough, a 'variable' hero might have been more interesting, but come on, it's still just a cheap gimmick. I'm sure Anet 'did' actually change their minds on this one, as soon as they realized how much of a joke the idea actually was. This isn't as big a deal as you people are making it out to be.
The level of petulance within the community is astounding. I want, I want, I want...

[Curse You]

I see no problem with the changing of armour from one profession's to another (runes and insignias are a different thing). They have proven that they can make the armour level of a hero change depending on their level, why not their profession? Also, about the looks, just make all the armour look the same, just change the stats.

From what I can see, it seems to be just about as troublesome as programing a huge realm with high level enemies with complex drop patterns, spawn patterns and quests. Oh wait, they just did that...

So what? Someone doesn't own Factions so a Rit hero is pointless. Last I checked, same goes for the assassin. Don't see anyone complaining about that, and who said you needed to use all of your heroes anyway? Last I checked, this one is actually an 'extra' in a stupidly hard special area. This is just Pokemon in GW...
Fair enough, a 'variable' hero might have been more interesting, but come on, it's still just a cheap gimmick. I'm sure Anet 'did' actually change their minds on this one, as soon as they realized how much of a joke the idea actually was. This isn't as big a deal as you people are making it out to be.
The level of petulance within the community is astounding. I want, I want, I want... I want you to get a clue.

You can only get Zanmai if you have BOTH Factions and Nightfall.

How exactly is the only ritualist hero "extra?"

[floppinghog]

bottom line is, he needs to be able to change his primary profession.

if it wasnt ready to be released and they rushed it out.. then wtf
Gaile had said this update would come along with Razah december right? well i believe she also said as late at mid-december, we got it on the 1st. sounds rushed, no?

all i can say myself is, they best speak up on an update to "finish" this hero, if anything.

[ubermancer]

If that is the case why not just ship an empty box?

QFFT. You can guess why the extra F is in there.

If they have time to code in DANCING HENCHMEN that for some reason TALK TO ME MID COMBAT then they have time to give us some of the core things they promise (some from the Prophecies Beta!). Those being:

Reconnects
Auction House
Variable Hero
etc

[4ssassin]

Hes not variable? dude...worthless. how effective can a rit hero be anyways? i seem to recall my rit henchman in factions being the first ones down anyways. Im not even going to bother getting this guy if hes not changable..but if he was....

I can see i now: me, koss, goren, and Razah charging along the country side forming huge mobs behind us cause of the new Adumb...err....AI.

[frojack]

I see no problem with the changing of armour from one profession's to another (runes and insignias are a different thing). They have proven that they can make the armour level of a hero change depending on their level, why not their profession? Also, about the looks, just make all the armour look the same, just change the stats.

From what I can see, it seems to be just about as troublesome as programing a huge realm with high level enemies with complex drop patterns, spawn patterns and quests. Oh wait, they just did that...

I want you to get a clue.

You can only get Zanmai if you have BOTH Factions and Nightfall.

How exactly is the only ritualist hero "extra?"

... And you can only have heroes full-stop if you buy Nightfall. Big deal. A known quantity. A useless comment.

The whole damn thing is 'extra'! Just like a lot of other people you seem to be lost in this quagmire of heroes. Ask yourself, how important they are to the game? Is it some big tragedy that your not getting 'exactly' what you want from these drones? Who simply amount to suped-up henchmen, and still possess the same intellect as that of a broken toy that just constantly rams itself into the nearest wall. People are forgetting themselves with these 'machines'. These toys.

Go play with real people. All of you, as patronising as it sounds (apologies for the sensitive types, but it needs saying). This is a team game (supposedly). Playing on your own with bot's makes playing online virtually pointless. In my opinion, heroes are to the detriment of Guild Wars...

Also, most of the presumptions about 'programming' I've read in these forums are akin to me saying "what's the big deal about sending some dudes to the moon?".
The thing is see I know f-all about astronomy and I'm talking complete and utter nonsense...

[freekedoutfish]

As already said, its just a novality idea.

Its not a necessity, its just something people want because they think its a cool idea.

Im guessing Anet didnt do it because they realised the obvious over-powerment of having 4 ele's or 4 necros and so on.

We dont need an adjustable hero. At the end of the day you can have up to 3 of each class now in your party, so what use would they be?

Plus you would need to create a completely unique armor set to them. You couldnt change armor from one profession to another, because the model frame wouldnt fit it.

You couldnt strech the texture for an elemental around a Hero with a frame like a warrior, it would distort. And you couldnt put a warrior texture onto a frame as slim as an elemental, because it wouldnt fit.

These armors are designed for set model shapes.

[N E D M]

Plus you would need to create a completely unique armor set to them. You couldnt change armor from one profession to another, because the model frame wouldnt fit it.

You couldnt strech the texture for an elemental around a Hero with a frame like a warrior, it would distort. And you couldnt put a warrior texture onto a frame as slim as an elemental, because it wouldnt fit.

These armors are designed for set model shapes.
Why would the appearance of the hero's armor need to change with his profession?

[freekedoutfish]

Why would the appearance of the hero's armor need to change with his profession?

Im not saying it would.

But some people would obviously expect or want it to, if your going to change its profession.

I was saying such a thing wouldnt be possible.

But if it was done in that way, we would need to create whole new profession armors unique to this character. Alot of un-needed time and effort for a Hero we dont need.

I personally dont even see why we need a changable hero. Its pointless.

So as to why we would need to or want to change its armor; You would have to ask someone who wants this hero to exist.

I was just pointing out an issue with the idea.

[Pkest]

A variable primary hero would have been very nice. I had several ideas for that going round in my head.

Now I am reserving judgement until we hear from Anet as to whether they are still working on completing this or whether it was just an empty promise.

If it turns out they are still working on it then I will wait patiently and actually have a reason to do DOA.

If it turns out to be the latter then I will be severely disappointed but life will go on.

Unfortunately if they don't tell us one way or the other then I fear this thread will continue to degenerate into just another name-calling flamefest.

[Emik]

I personally dont even see why we need a changable hero. Its pointless.

Don't generalise your point of view.
I don't have to point out that people are very disappointed not to have a rit at first and now they add him in a place that for common gamers is almost impossible to do.
Should he in fact be variable most people (yes MOST) would like to make an affert.
As of now i do'nt see it happen.
Also Why a rit in NF endgame?
That's like adding a dervish hero as Factions hero: equally pointless

[Mr_T_bot]

If there is so much contention for developers' time, perhaps Anet should do something like actually, you know, hiring more developers?
Thread over. He wins.

[Eviance]

What about it being a waste of developers' time and resources? The whole of GW codebase probably doesn't allow for and does not expect a variable primary profession for a character. Refactoring it something that does, plus all the necessary supporting changes (armor, attributes, handling equipment, animation, etc.), could likely too much work. Not to mention all the potential bugs this might cause, and all for ONE hero, since I doubt Anet's going to consider allowing all our characters to change primary prof.

My comment was more dirrected at those who said: "But we didn't have a rit hero!" I thought it kinda silly to be fussing that we didn't have a rit hero when it could have potentially been changed to one. Some were acting as if by getting a variable you wouldn't get a rit hero. That was my point.

I have no argument against how difficult it would be to implement. Only way I could see it happening is if they gave it a middle based armor, health and magic that didn't change and the armor could hold whatever rune based on its current primary. *shrugs* Otherwise there would be a lot of armor shopping.

[lakeland]

If that is the case why not just ship an empty box?

Because actually including a game in the box is *gasp* a waste of developers' time and resources! Time that they can better spend in Cajun basking in the sun and eating caviar! If there is so much contention for developers' time, perhaps Anet should do something like actually, you know, hiring more developers? I don't see a single construction worker building a skyscraper, why is Anet doing that?

I don't see how this is hard to implement really, probably just a weekend's effort. And the best path for them to take would be to implement the suggested "Smart armor system" and it would be trivially easy. Of course Anet being so anal is probably worried about how our smart armors is going to cost them 0.01 cents of storage space per account.

Which part of false advertising do you know read? The manual clearly says it is variable, it is not. Duh... So the game is not what it is touted to be. Hmmm, is it really so hard to comprehend?

QFT.

gg.

[freekedoutfish]

Don't generalise your point of view.
I don't have to point out that people are very disappointed not to have a rit at first and now they add him in a place that for common gamers is almost impossible to do.
Should he in fact be variable most people (yes MOST) would like to make an affert.
As of now i do'nt see it happen.
Also Why a rit in NF endgame?
That's like adding a dervish hero as Factions hero: equally pointless

If you noticed, or look.

Ive actually made a thread saying to add a Rit Hero to cantha, for those who dont want to trek to get Razah in DoA. I agree Razah is a bad thing and a pointless Hero and in a very bad place. I agree a Rit belongs in factions, and should only be attainable there.

But he exists, so there it is.

Plus if he wasnt a Ritualist, what else could he be? Everyother profession exists.

And I dont remember saying I wouldnt like the idea of a variable Hero. It would be weird, but I wouldnt complain.

I just said I didnt see it working. Everything about it would have to be unique.

Its weapons and armor. It would all have to be adjustable to wich profession he/she was.

Weapons would have to be generic and adjust to which professions he was, otherwise youd have to own countless weapons for him/her.

Armor would have to be generic and change stats automatically, otherwise you would need countless insignias for him/her.

Stuff which said "armor +10 against....[adjust]",
Or "Half casting time of [adjust] spells 20% chance",
etc etc etc....

He or she would be a very expensive and fiddly Hero to use and it wouldn be a simple thing to impliment.

But if they can do it, then cool.

If it was to happen, I also rather it wasnt a human. Perhaps make it some strange DoA humanoid creature which is able to possess many abilities.

[MithranArkanere]

If they can't make a really variable hero, they can still make one Razah of each class, and make it so you an use only one of them at the same time, something like adding an NPC to talk to so Razah changes between classes.

[Crazyvietguy]

Maybe all heros should be variable! :D

Honestly i have no preference either way to Razah being a Rit or not. I LOVE rits. My rit has razah. So far i've found that his channeling machinegunning is pretty swell. I'm pretty sure the reason there is only 2 of E,M,R,W,N is because normally you'll have 2 of any of those professions in a given group (before NF). I dont see 2 mesmers in my group often, 2 rits, or 2 assassins. As for the One dervish and 1 paragon, a LARGE precentage of players will be using either one as their own character.

I think you folks should live with it, its not that hard to just say "Hey Razah, your never joining my group because i hate ritualists." As naive as that is, its your own decision.

[MrTwisted]

Thank god for that someone said it... It took long enough (page 3) but thats it right there...

If they can't make a really variable hero, they can still make one Razah of each class, and make it so you an use only one of them at the same time, something like adding an NPC to talk to so Razah changes between classes.

Thankyou MithranArkanere :) I was reading through these posts and almost shouting at the screen lol...


We already have the workings for this in game now!!.
The drop down where we choose heros from..
Koss (Warrior)
Tahlkora (Monk)
Acolyte Jin (Ranger)

Simply add a second dropdown with each class as Razah
Razah (Warrior)
Razah (Monk)
Razah (Ranger)

This would be far easier to add than it was to add the heros in the first place... and would not reqire swapping runes etc..

As for those posting that "he isnt needed" and "who case about it" they said it was going to be there and it isnt. It should be so now ppl want it.

I see enough posts in threads where ppl want something in game in that isnt there and ppl add "Anet didnt say it was coming" ect.. well this is different!..

[Thallandor]

because having more Options > having less Options.