Ads In OP of Threads...

[Hanso Togakure]

What is with the advertisements that are in the OPs of threads. They just seemed to show up tonight and are very irritating.

[Tark Alkerk]

ermm whats with the advertisments on the side of my post?
am i going mad?
also when i use words like games in my post i get adverts as well...
i know that guru needs adverts to pay for the servers but i find it a bit intrusive..., also it slows down browsing speed 10 fold.

[Mourne]

Apparently there are new advertisements on the pages now. One in the first post of every page and then some words are highlighted either advertising or giving some sort of small definition.

Not that it is a big thing but...the advertisement in the first post is kind of annoying, and having random words highlighted is just...well random.

What is everyones thoughts on the new advertisements?

[Thom Bangalter]

So, I already dislike the ads----->

but I hate the green text more, telling me I can search for NPC on ask.com.

[Drithlan]

------------->

[Bowman Artemis]

So I haven't just got spyware or something? This is really irritating.

[JR]

It's just a test I believe, can't say at this point whether it will remain.

[Feminist Terrorist]

Ads IN the threads is/are extremely intrusive and, to me at least, very unwelcome.

[Juicey Shake]

hopefully it goes, I don't want to stop coming here >_<

[Winterclaw]

/me doesn't like this new feature

*Warks angerily

[fenix]

I thought it was just me, this is crazy. I hate the ads, especially the ones that highlight words, they just get in the way and make me even LESS interested in clicking.

[Lasareth]

Yes this was implemented as part of a site change. Please leave all types of feedback on it for us to assess.

[Tark Alkerk]

well i have seen it before on the guru home page a few times, the adverts that are highlighted in green that is, they ddn't stay for very long:),
also noticed that Guild Wiki did this at one time, theirs didn't stat for very long either...xD.

-edit it may just me but the time it takes to edit has increases by quite a bit longer than usual.

[Wrath Of Dragons]

hmmmm. is my adblocker that good? I havnt seen ANYTHING

[Lord Aro]

(lmao!! highlighted that word, search for rival products anyone? )--> Wow, I didn't know Gaile Gray supported RBC Avion Visa. I should get one now since it must be cool, seeing as she's the one next to the image.

Gaile Gray supports some random thing? (http://hosted.rsyd.com/aro/gwg/gwg_gg.gif)


Guess I'll be making generic, "I do not support the advertisement in this post." messages now on any that show one. Or pull out my trusty ad blocker again. Or the other choice.

[arcanemacabre]

I severely dislike this. So far, I have been supportive of GWG ads, and occasionally click on the banner at the top, ya know, the one out of the way but still noticeable. Now? Well, I just installed the script blocker for FF. Didn't want to do it, but I had to.

The ad in the posts, and the hotlink crap is way too intrusive and annoying, so away it goes. Get rid of it, and I'll get rid of my script blocker and go back to supporting GWG.

[kzap]

yep its a test, this is exactly what were looking for :) give us feedback suggestions, how to make it less intrusive, i know the tribal fusion ads are annoying

[Cebe]

yep its a test, this is exactly what were looking for :) give us feedback suggestions, how to make it less intrusive, i know the tribal fusion ads are annoying

You could possibly make it less intrusive by coming around to all our homes and sticking huge billboards up behind our PCs and sticking well known company logos on all our keyboard buttons! Please Please do not keep those irritating "ask.com" links. Every time I move the mouse across the screen loads pop up and it is so so irritating. It also makes me considerably less likely to click on them...therefore the adverts do not work!

[Arkantos]

Feedback - Keep ads out of posts. They get in the way, are very annoying and mess up posts.

[arcanemacabre]

I have a suggestion:

Have an option somewhere on the site where we (the forumites) can give donations for site upkeep in exchange for special titles under our name. Seriously, is this possible? I've been looking everywhere on how to contribute, but I can't find anything. So, ya know, if it's there, maybe make it a lot more noticeable.

I'd love to contribute. I seriously think a lot of us would. This is a great site, and I'm sure we all want to see it do well. I just don't think littering it with ads is going to make it any better.

[Tetris L]

The green links in forum threads are very obtrusive and annoying. For me personally it is simply unacceptable that something I wrote is altered without my approval to become an advertisement. If these green links aren't removed, I'll stop posting on the GWGuru forums and look for a new home, period. I'd hate to do so, because the GWGuru forums are clearly the best GW forums on the internet. Please, there must be other, better ways to advertise. I don't mind banners all over the place. But pop-ups and ad links in editorial content or forums are a no-no.

[Havelock]

The ads are just annoying. Keep advertising out of forum posts.

[Manic Smile]

I'm fine with asking for donations but I will stop using this site if this type of add presists. I dont' like having to worry about clicking something inadvertently.

[Tetris L]

Gaile Gray supports some random thing? (http://hosted.rsyd.com/aro/gwg/gwg_gg.gif)
OMGWTFBBQ :mad:

Didn't see that yet. That CLEARLY crosses the line!!

[Zakarr]

What ads? I don't see anything. :p

[Manic Smile]

OMGWTFBBQ :mad:

Didn't see that yet. That CLEARLY crosses the line!!

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2123748

So when I extend myself beyond my ability to repay using that credit card I can blame Gaile Gray and sue her for $10,000,000 in emotional damage.


LMAO...hey Tetris your name is an add...that's soooo lame

[Whispering Siren]

Way too intrusive and super-annoying. I vote this test ends, please.

[Kitharin]

hopefully it goes, I don't want to stop coming here >_<

QFT

eugh. those green links have to be the most annoying thing ive seen on theis forum, appart from the adds in the OPs. I hope the are removed :mad:

[Arkantos]

If these ads do stay, Many many people will probably be leaving guru.

[Vilaptca]

Aww...I don't want to go back to GWOnline...

Seriously, the ads are dumb. Its very annoying when reading threads.

If you really want me to click on the links more just make all the top banner ads those ones with the games. I'll go crazy playing those for you if it removes these stupid ones that appear in our posts.

[kzap]

what do you guys find less intrusive the rectangle ad or the green text links?

[zidergirl]

Awful sorry
I understand you may need to support the site with advertising but agree many people will be leaving because of these adverts in the forums.
I hate the pop up that appears from nowhere in the middle of the page too .
I find them intrusive and take my mind / eye off of what I am here looking at and reading.

[Ondo]

Please stop the insanity.
The adds in the first post of every page, annoying as all heck.
The green underlining of certain words in all post, very distracting.
I would even be more happy to start a paypal account and contribute money to you to take this crap off, then to stay here a continue to put up with it.

P.S. If plan on a contribution thing, please try to get something that accepts CCs. I really don't want a paypal account either.

[Tark Alkerk]

what do you guys find less intrusive the rectangle ad or the green text links?
i really can't decide, i don't like either, but i think that the rectangle is more intrusive if i yeah had to pick one, its like the video adverts on the side of videos on places like gametraillers, you try and watch the video and there is an animated ad in the corner which is slowing the whole thing down and you can't turrn it off or stop it.

[Emik]

Remove them both but if i need to choose one being less anooying it's the rectangle piece of codswallop...
That can be ignored, but the green text...
/me starts pulling his hair

[Gonzo]

The ads in the OP can be ignored more easily as the green text links which I really dislike.

[fenix]

Yeah, the hyperlinks in the middle of posts is definately the worst one. The OP ad thing isn't so bad, as you don't see it in almost EVERY SINGLE POST. I think ditch the green ones...it's real real annoying...

[strcpy]

I'm willing to bet you could mostly get along with the adds in the first post of every page.

Annoying? Yes, very much so. But it's not *that* uncommon to see it. Sometimes they can even provide some amusement when their content is ironic (say, for instance, a Microsoft add in an anti-Microsoft post).

However, the inline linking on words? Horrid. It's my writing, even if the EULA states you guys own all I write here (never really payed attention). It will drive many away - not only posters but it is irritating to readers as well. Plus it is intrusive and everywhere. At the least the adds are only at the top of each page.

My guess would be that you will loose more than you can gain from the inline word links (and given that "guild wars" links to online money purchasing agents you my even loose your status with Anet). While I'm sure you need to pay for bandwidth, that is a good way to "solve' that problem (no readers == no bandwidth issues), however I do not think that is your preferred solution.

As to the initial adds - I dunno. They do not really bother me and I figure most that are complaining will not leave.

[Manic Smile]

agreed green text must go

and this thread needs to be more visible

[Thallandor]

To the green linky text:

NO JUST NO.

[kzap]

ok inline ads are off if youre loggedin

[Tark Alkerk]

woot green things are gone :)
thank you kzap:)

[Hengis Stone]

I absolutely hate these changes. They are intrusive and in some case of very doubtful legality.

Links to sites selling in game gold for example!!

Just imagine a post from Gaile Gray about the EULA, or saying "buying in game gold is not acceptable" and that having sponsored links out to a gold selling site!

At the very least these changes should be optional and you should be able to turn them off in your preferences. At best they should be removed totally.

[Thallandor]

Thanks kzap. Clicking on banners to support GWG.

[Riesz]

hmmmm. is my adblocker that good? I havnt seen ANYTHING

I don't see anything either... but I don't think I even have an adblocker. :confused: I see "Sponsored Link:" and there's nothing beside it.

Were the green links and other ads removed too? I don't see anything!

[Lykan]

This is kinda silly. :)

Time to start adding this to my posts?

"This post is sponsored by ---->"

[SaucE]

Get rid of them. The banner at the top is more than enough. I don't come visit this site to of ads shoved in my face every 5 seconds.

[Zinger314]

On the brightside, unlike the ads at GWO, you don't get viruses and keyloggers from these ads. :D

[Sir Mad]

The green links in forum threads are very obtrusive and annoying. For me personally it is simply unacceptable that something I wrote is altered without my approval to become an advertisement. If these green links aren't removed, I'll stop posting on the GWGuru forums and look for a new home, period. I'd hate to do so, because the GWGuru forums are clearly the best GW forums on the internet. Please, there must be other, better ways to advertise. I don't mind banners all over the place. But pop-ups and ad links in editorial content or forums are a no-no.

Quoted for truth. I feel the same thing.

I own a few domains and offer free hosting with no bandwidth cap to sites I like and wanna support. Of course the server generate probably less bandwidth than guru by far, but I still pay for that. I have a politics: no advert on the sites hosted. At all. Simply because that's what internet should have remained in my mind. Of course I understand one can't afford or even don't want to do that, and I have no problem with sites like guru putting ad banners and such.

But THIS!

Ads are not on the top of the page, you haven't added a culumn of ads on the left side, but the ads are now a part of the text of random posters. Ads are one thing, but when you stop making differences between someone's words/mind/etc and commercial advertising, things are getting really bad. And that's sad. Sorry but I won't - I can't - keep posting for a long time in a forum where my own words are a pretext to generate ads, which are much more visible than what I worte. Think about it: do you have a forum so you can have ads or do you have ads to make live your forum?

EDIT - Oh they seem to have just been removed, thanks a bunch!

EDIT 2 - No, they've not :o

[skretth]

I have a suggestion:

Have an option somewhere on the site where we (the forumites) can give donations for site upkeep in exchange for special titles under our name. Seriously, is this possible? I've been looking everywhere on how to contribute, but I can't find anything. So, ya know, if it's there, maybe make it a lot more noticeable.

I'd love to contribute. I seriously think a lot of us would. This is a great site, and I'm sure we all want to see it do well. I just don't think littering it with ads is going to make it any better.

Agreed kinda like the sponsors that are on gwo

[Saraphim]

I missed the boat on the green text..

Personally, I hate the thought of any sort of ad being embedded into any post I make. I've seen plenty of forums that have a break in the topic with embedded ads (flash and text) which is, in my opinion, a necessary evil for free forums.

But inside posts... no. If it stays I won't be starting any threads. Though I will contribute as long as they don't start randomly popping up in all posts.

[Cracko]

Theyre gone for me, both the green text and the ads. GJ GWG ^^ <3

[Saraphim]

Mmmm me too.

*starts clicking the banner ads*

[Sir Mad]

Apparently they disappear after a few mins of activity on the forum. They had disappeared for me too, and now are back a few hours later.

/resign

[Inde]

No, we still don't allow the discussion of ad blockers ;) Please, this is just a test I think you can all see that we are making changes and taking your constructive and valid suggestions as we progress here. There is absolutely no reason to go over-the-top as we test this out. Please continue to leave feedback, let us know about any bugs you see. Change is never taken lightly, especially in a forum setting, and we are all very aware of that. Nowhere has anyone stated that this is permanent, that it won't be changed, that we aren't taking suggestions or listening to your feedback. :)

[Hanso Togakure]

what do you guys find less intrusive the rectangle ad or the green text links?
I hate them both. Both are annoying and in a sense can lead people to believe that we are advertising some bull like Scarface stuff for you phone or whatnot. Please remove both.

[Darcy]

I missed out on the green word links, thank goodness, but I would vote against them.

As to the block ad in the 1st post on each page, I suppose I could learn to live with it if it was a static ad instead of animated. The animation keeps drawing your eyes away from the text. It's very annoying which does not induce you to click on the ad, but to get out of the forum pages.

Of course, my first impression this morning was that the OP had included the ad in their post. I think I would be upset also.

I agree with other posters that if you had a voluntary donation method, I would donate money to keep this website operational. I have noticed that your bandwidth has been recently increased and understand it has to be paid for somehow. Old habits (never clicking on any ads) die hard, but I will click on the banner ads more often.

[Phoenix Denfer]

I have gotten use to the banner ads and even clicked on them.

I refuse to get use to ads inside of threads, pictures or links. This just looks like one of those cheap free forum sites now. :mad:

Page load is worse now then it has ever been, and I was just thinking how much more stable the forum was behaving prior to the new "test."

Either charge for a premium membership that has AD FREE viewing of the entire site and would be customizable for the user or give us a more visable donations accepted HERE link and cut the advertising down to just banner ads.

Those are my thoughts anyway.

GET RID OF IN THREAD ADS PLEASE.

[Mourne]

Yay! The picture of my warrior in the Post Your Warrior Thread has a sponsor...

As everyone has said, inthread adds are so annoying. There isn't a reason for these when you already have other ads running the place. Someone else also mentioned a donation link, is there one?

[dudehere120]

i started a thread on this subject, and saw this one, so i thought i might add my 2 cents. please, get rid of the ads. as if we aren't bombared enough with ads everywhere you go nowadays, ads creeping their way into forum threads is just annoying, and the last place they should be. i go to these forums frequently to read content, not to have ads shoved in my face. i like the idea of a contribution system. i would contribute to this site because it is quality, and i would also do it to keep these ads out of the threads. :P

[Mercury Angel]

Ay-yi-yi, I just threatened to ban a user a few days back over the ads they embedded themselves into their first post, complete with referral links. And now this o_O

I rarely create threads, preferring to post in existing ones, but I can really see how people might be offended over having their post turned into an advertisement, even if just an ad on the side.

The Gaile Gray post link is a particularly comical demonstration of how this can have some incredibly bad backlash.

Additionally, the forums, while not too bad on the loading times, hang on the first post for me until the flash banner has loaded. I really, really dislike that ><


Intermittent posts generated by adbots, even multiple ones, annoy me less than the single one actually inserted INSIDE the OP's post, or even intellitext. Whatever the final implementation is in, it's GOT to be less intrusive. Converting people's very posts into adverts is... a serious issue.


It's also something we don't allow people to do willingly and ban people for.


I know that guru isn't free to run, and that a large amount of people run adblockers as a slap in the face to any website run primarily on ad revenues, but there's got to be some kind of compromise here. I could even live with 'on the side' gamefaqs style ads, and I loathe those, as long as they're silent.

Edit:
Oh... my... goodness -_-
This won't do at all.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3739/editposthy4.jpg

[Kahlindra]

Although they have now mysteriously disappeared (yay for being logged in and active) I really dislike this change. A serious reason is that it very much increased my page load times- given the amount of data that's on here loads can be verrrry slow anyway. This just made me frustrated and I logged off. A slightly less technical reason, but still serious to me- NO I do NOT want to see pictures of baby suri......god.......

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

The intellitext just has to go. Anyone who looks at the links that it gives will realize that it's useless even from an advertiser's point of view, and it just bogs down load times for everyone.

The ads inside the OP are annoying for the same reason. I don't care if this means that Inde makes us all click on the "Baby Suri" ad a thousand times a day to keep the site going, or if we have to do it via paypal donations. Both options sound better to me than what's happened now.

EDIT:Looks like the first issue is fixed. I promise to click on the banner ad at the top three million times a day if you guys remove the OP ads. Seriously.

[Inde]

Please keep the feedback coming. We are reading every post, let me stress again that ad blocker talk gets your post deleted. We are looking for constructive criticism and feedback.

[Commander Ryker]

I have a suggestion:

Have an option somewhere on the site where we (the forumites) can give donations for site upkeep in exchange for special titles under our name. Seriously, is this possible? I've been looking everywhere on how to contribute, but I can't find anything. So, ya know, if it's there, maybe make it a lot more noticeable.

I'd love to contribute. I seriously think a lot of us would. This is a great site, and I'm sure we all want to see it do well. I just don't think littering it with ads is going to make it any better.

I really like this idea. Put me down for hating the ads, but loving the donations idea.

[SnipiousMax]

Issues with the green text aside, as Tetris already made a brilliant post on that subject. The ADs in the OP are jarring and intrusvie, but if that's what it takes to keep GwG running, I can manage it.

I would point out that text does not always line up well with the ad... especially quoted text, and it seems to take the fire out of a post to have to read around the ad... Maybe if it was on the top of the post instead of the side? or the bottom? And smaller regardless.

[zelira]

After reading this thread, I logged onto PCMech (a site I haven't been to since 6/26/06) and donated $26.99 just to get rid of the ads on that site. I probably won't log onto that website for another 3 months, however I just hate ads that much.

<-- willing to donate


http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/4743/focusju8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I'm trying to focus, but that ad is distracting.

[Sli Ander]

Panicked this morning. Thought you guys had been hacked or something when I saw the ads.
Ummm.. never saw the green text, but I agree that would have been the more annoying of the two. The in-post ads feel more intrusive(it's violating my 'personal space' you might say) but I could learn to deal with them. It would be nicer if they could be moved off to the side or something, but if they have to stay there, I'll deal.
As for donations, would love to but think about the fact that you're a forum for a bunch of people who decided to play a free online game. Even if I had the money to spare, I'm paranoid about putting credit card stuff online, even to start paypal.
I'm going to go start clicking ads now, let us know the final verdict on the test.
But thats just my two cents :ninja:

[Fungus Amongus]

The ads in the OP are tolerable albeit on the large side. I have grown accustomed to ignoring ads everywhere I go so I don't see it as that big of a deal. The text ads are just downright annoying. Really, having to dodge text ads with my mouse pointer is downright annoying.

[KamikazeChicken]

Ad Blocker does remove all the ads, but it makes the site load a hell of a lot slower. I'd vote to remove the large pictures and use the green links (I never saw the links), if it makes the site load normally again.

[Winterclaw]

I'm glad the green links are gone as they were the worst, but I'd still like to see the OP ad removed.

If you guys want to make more money, why not make a deal with NCsoft that if any referred customers from this site buy an ncsoft game, GWG will get a commision?

Another thing is maybe you guys could think about cutting costs by eliminating one or two features of the site.

[Xenex Xclame]

I would love for the in post ads to be removed,the one on top is enough.
(I even clicked on the free smilies eon and am using the smilies provided in my msn :) they are very nice, you sould try em)
I also would like the Donation or premuim membership option.

But thinking real here, i dont think the ads will go, so i thought of an idea.
Why not put ads like the one on top ( the size) in between posts, say like after the 5th post you have one of the ads.As long as its not too big ( the one on top is perfect) i dont see any problems with em.

Having the in post ad right under the top one doesnt really help ,because for me atleast they are advertising the same thing, having it somwhere in the middle means im not looking at the top one anymore meaning the ad is basicly always in view ( good for the advertisers)

But theres another issue, the load times, the one on top doesnt prevent the site from loading that slow, but for some reason the in post ones do.

So my idea : Put a ad same size as the top one after the 5th post.

[Lasareth]

I've been proposing the change in location for the ad itself. I don't mind more than one banner ad, I just think that tact lies in placement (without being overly gaudy!).

Good suggestions so far though.

[Vilaptca]

I don't mind ads, I'm used to them, they're everywhere. But they should not be located in our posts. Leave them as banners on the top, bottom and sides of pages and its fine, but when they get in the posts, then its in the way and a becomes an incredibly annoying thing to deal with.

[Astro Pubes]

it seems as though my post earlier was deleted, since i mentioned ab blocker, but what about just keeping the ads to the banners on the top??? those ads in the banners never bothered me, but ads in the top post on the page seems just like an invasion, but honestly why not just set up a pay-pal donation to help with server fees and such? this isn't the first time you guys have tried to implement ads into the forums, first time was that text when you scrolled over it'd have a website where you could "buy" things, then shortly after it was gone, guru is definitely one of the better guild wars sites out there, alot of knowledge here when the right people speak up just IMHO placing ads in someones post is wrong and it will drive alot of people away.

[Winterclaw]

Las, you mean like a banner ad at the bottom of every page as well as on top? That might work fine.

[DigitalForm]

What about text ads like the Google ones in a column OUTSIDE of the posts or in between them? A donation ability would help a lot I think. Adding a custom title or name color shouldn't add to the bandwidth. Might have to do a little ALTER TABLE stuff to keep track of who donated though.

All I know is that more pictures slows down me cause of my slow connection, and I doubt I am the only one. The pictures are easy enough to ignore unlike the IntelliText popping up unexpectedly though. Maybe have the picture in between like the first and second post on every page ???.

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

I've been proposing the change in location for the ad itself. I don't mind more than one banner ad, I just think that tact lies in placement (without being overly gaudy!).

Good suggestions so far though.
I don't know if the advertisers would appreciate the bottom of the page very much (a less viewed location), but what about under the navigation bar at the top but above the first post? Advertisers would be happy because the ad would be in about the same place, but it would be a lot less invasive.

[Lord Aro]

Sidebar or between a random post (as long as they don't start showing up between all posts or the majority) would be fine.
The sidebar would be the best.
Also the 'premium' account can work (even though I find that ironic when it deals with free games). You'd also have to give ANet reps an account that would never show green links or ads within their posts.

Bad places: While writing a reply or creating a topic, at the 'thanks for posting' redirection page (you don't spend much time there), and within posts (though most places state when you submit the info it now belongs to them).


Guess I should'a got a screenshot of the green text too.

[Akhilleus]

do what other large sites have done in the past...
post how much it costs to upkeep the sites bandwidth on a monthly basis (give it its own little page or something), and post how much has been donated (update daily or weekly or whatever).
i can almost guarantee you, if you let people know what it costs to keep guru running, and what is donated towards that cost regularly, you will pay for the bandwidth...and probably have money left over.

[Lord Sarevok]

Ads in a post are bad, really bad. Please remove ASAP. This is the sort of thing to leave over.

[Scutilla]

I really cannot stand it. Having ads at the top of a page is one thing, but in the posts themselves (particularly word-wrapping or even obscuring them) is another. Not to mention it slows down page loads even more- even before this GWG, and in particular the auction site, has always been insanely slow, one reason why I prefer GWO.

[Inde]

Wow, the last page was so constructive and now we have gone over-the-top and threatening again. Once again I stress, we are testing some things out. We are reading every post and appreciate constructive feedback and crticism.

[Refyused]

The ads are perfectly visible at the top, bottom and sides of the pages. How about keeping them in those places instead of raping our posts with them? All it does is annoy the piss out of most of us, making it even more unlikely that we'l actually spend time clicking them.

[shaolin mind trick]

Definately annoying, though bills need to be paid somehow so it's understandable...
I like the idea of a more rectangular banner at the top or bottom of a post rather then the way it is. The bottom of the post would probably be the best in my opinion.

[Xenrath]

Ugh putting it in the actual thread is really not that great positioning.

Wouldn't it be possible to put an extra advert, say, at the bottom of the page? If you must put more adverts in to support the site that's understandable but could something like that be done? Put it underneath the thread as you view it? Then you have an ad the top and one at the bottom, and untouched thread in the middle...

[Age]

The board that i work on have ad in between the posts not in them as we use PhPBB not Vb anyways is there anyway you can put them in between the posts as I find them a little annoying as well.

[cosyfiep]

dont like them at all....they add time to loading a page that already takes me near to 2 minutes to get to!
however; I do understand operating costs.....but putting these annoying things INSIDE posts is a big no-no! :mad:

keep them outside of the actual posts please!
many other sites (see guildwiki, yahoo auctions, even ebay)...keep them on the sides or between posts, not IN them!!!!
so please move them to another part of the page, not IN someones personal space!

[Beqxter]

Can you limit it to static ads and not Flash or animated GIFs? It's the animated ones that are MOST annoying (though they're all pretty ugly).

[makosi]

I don't mind them much if they'll result in improved site performance (will they?). I know this is a free service and I appreciate it greatly but occasionally the site suffers slow-downs and downtime as we all know. I presume these ads can only mean a better service, right?

[Zui]

I'm glad the green text was removed, I really hated that. I also find the add appearing in the first post on every page intrusive, and annoying. It would be really, really nice if that add could be removed too.

I really, really dislike peoples posts being turned into adds.



Instead of what you currently have, I think you could do somthing like the following to generate more revenue, without causing people to ragequit GWG:

Banner adds are fine, even animated ones. Infact, it wouldn't really bother me if you added a banner add at the bottom of all of your pages. Perhaps between the text body of the thread, and the quick reply box? I've seen several IPB boards that have done this same thing, shouldn't be that hard to do the same on a VB board. This would get people to look at it, without overly annoying anyone to the point where they stop visiting the fourms.

For the regular reply/new thread box, you could certainly place an add to the side of it. Don't think that would annoy too many people either. After all, there's already an animated banner add just above where I'm typing now, and it's not annoying me in the least. Although I'm unsure as to if doing that would actualy be possible. If it's not, simply add another banner add between the body of that box and the 'additional options' section below it. It should be visable to everyone, and it wouldn't annoy the hell out of them.

Let people donate, and make the donation link very visable, infact even set it as a global announcement. Perhaps you could even give people a special title, or name color if they donate, I think that would encourage alot more people to do so. You could even have different teirs of whatever title(perhaps even a custom title for a donation over a certain amount), or different name colors for people who donate more, thus encouraging people to donate more money.

Heck, even adding an adbot that posts an add in-between posts would be better than what you have now, IMHO. It wouldn't cause people to simply not read another users post, hurry though reading that post, or be distracted and annoyed as hell while doing so...

[Sid Soggybottom]

I dont like the ads in the OP either. It makes it hard to read and really distracting. It's like having a commercial blaring at me while I'm trying to watch a show.

There really isnt any constructive feedback that I can give other than to say that the ads should be removed from the OP. It's extremely tacky too.

[Akhilleus]

heres an idea...
instead of voicing how much you hate ads in a flaming rage, post some constructive ideas on methods of aquiring revanue that arent obstructive.

i still think my suggestion would work...
lets say for the sake of argument the site costs $100 a month to keep up...lets say that (collectivly) $30 was donated towards that, and this information was posted in a readily accessible area, it would let people know how much more is needed to keep the site up and running (at no personal monetary cost to you) for that month.
if people can think to themselves "hmmm...theres $70 left to go before this next month is covered" they will be more likely to donate. its ALWAYS easier to work towards a goal of you know what that goal is. and to be honest, i think you'd do far better with voluntary donations than with advertisements.
but, thats just my opinion.

[Sid Soggybottom]

heres an idea...
instead of voicing how much you hate ads in a flaming rage, post some constructive ideas on methods of aquiring revanue that arent obstructive.


I agree that people shouldnt go into a flaming rage about this but not everyone knows much about acquiring revenue for a website. I sure dont. However, I still feel that anyone who browses this site can give their opinion on this....as long as it's not in a vicious rage.

[Mr D J]

Ok, want my opinion on this? It sucks. Web is turning into some sort of television... don't you think people hate seeing ad every 6 minutes? It's a location that can actually make a person click the ad if he/she tries to highlight something... you know what I mean. Put it on the bottom or on the side like on youtube but not in the post.

[Shadow of Light]

Ok. I don't mind the ads at the top of the pages. Putting them into people's posts as huge blocks is annoying, but even that I can live with. Sites have to make ends meet. As has been mentioned, I'd also prefer these new adsquares were static instead of animated. But then, I'd also prefer it if they were horizontal banners at the top/bottom of posts instead of big ugly squares imposing on the text but... I figure the very idea of these things is to make them as visible as possible. :/

I suppose I'm more concerned with the less obtrusive aspect I've come to notice with this site, and that's the Hitbox (among others?) tracking cookies that seem to pop up on my system every single time I visit.

[The Dirrtiest]

I agreed with Ahk.

The End.

[Malice Black]

Doesn't bother me, site is running a bit faster then normal.



Another idea is to move the ad to the bottom of the page and insted of it being a big sqaure make it a small rectangle that fits along the bottom of the OP.

[arcanemacabre]

So who wants to /sign for the idea of donations?

Me!

/signed

[Rayzor]

Couple of points of interests. Ads need to be towards the top, cannot be at the bottom. Most ads need to be "above the fold" for the most part. Squares tend to pay more than banners. It could be worse at least you can read the forums anytime you want and there could be ads in every post. Sites cost a lot of money to run when the get huge (GWG is the biggest GW site around).

My suggestion is box off the ad with style and put the word "advertisement" under it so it doesn't appear that the individual poster is endorsing the actual ad/product.

[Akhilleus]

another extention of my former idea, to post what it costs/donations, is to enter people who donate into weekly or monthly drawings for different items in-game...
this would provide a special means of thanking those who go that extra mile to contribute to the site.

while i may not be able to afford to contribute much monetarily, i would be more than willing to offer up items for drawings for such an activity. i'm sure you'd also get others willing to donate some things here and there, in the absence of not being able to afford cash donations.

[Kidney Licker]

Any reason why the Smiley ad is always used, are they are a long time sponsor?

I can see the reason for the ads, but a bit more variety would be nice. Any chance that other companies would want to advertise here?

It is kinda overbearing the ad and detracts from the thread.

[Lasareth]

I'd like to also add that the majority of the staff of this site makes absolutely no money off of helping to run it. That includes me. The money goes straight to the site and into its upkeep and support. Hence its term "fansite." Those of us who keep things going are here for love of the community and the game, not the money.

[Guardian of the Light]

^ LIES!!!

j/k j/k


Anyways ya the ads are annoying getting rid of them would be nice.

[Neo Nugget]

Im not seeing them anymore:D

[Grasping Darkness]

as long as it isnt a pop up and it helps pay for this cool site then i dont mind the ads at all

[Terra Xin]

.. gw is loosing interest.. as a result all sites will be loosing everyday vewiers.

Source your information before you say this.

your member numbers are very high indeed.. they keep climbing..but the active member number is declining. its the same with gw..

Wrong, the active participant number is increasing in this site, I know this because I have been watching member registrations on this site and... well lets just say I keep a very close eye on member activity (shhh). I can't provide my own sources because they aren't official, but I can point you to this press release, which has numbers that point in my general direction:

This weekend's numbers shattered the previous attendance record of three million hours set during the Guild Wars FactionsTM

You also have to consider the "Long time reader - have never posted" users on this site, the number of 'guests' that are online at any time actually increases over time.

with nightfall we will see a spike in user activity.. this spike will be larger than factions.. but will fade out much faster.

Factions recieved alot of negative feedback from before the release and still recieve alot of negative feedback well after its release. With Nightfall, they have had more positive feedback, and while that chapter has recieved negative applause, the amount was not as high as Factions was. Making a prediction of this about Nightfall is pure speculation. What you can say is that Nightfall has recieved much more feedback than Factions, alot more feedback.

you as the good buisness men you are have predicted this and have started preperations for the next guru site of the next new mmorpg to be released.

Correct. Now ask yourself, would there have been a reason 'not' to open up a site for a new game?

every good thread needs a conspiricy, i guess i will play the part.

My name is Terra Xin, I will play the part of post-dismantling. Nice to meet you.

this site will have moved on to the next mmorpg.

They don't just close entire sites when a new game comes unless the game has completely died out, that wont happen for a very long time.

I am a realist.. and this is the inevitable result of any mmorpg.. at least in my opinion it is.

Anet has stated, or better yet, a few people from Anet have stated that GW is not an MMORPG, but this game does share the player-base that an MMORPG would have. Albeit GW will share the same fate and may die away slowly like other RPG games, but they aren't facing financial issues and they have looked well into the future. We as the playing community can expect to see many more things to come out of this game before any more people will claim that GW will soon be a dead game. I am a realist, I have looked and read into GuildWars, the only way they could die out in January is if some... kind of natural disaster hit them and destroyed all of their work, otherwise, they are very very strong.

[arcanemacabre]

another extention of my former idea, to post what it costs/donations, is to enter people who donate into weekly or monthly drawings for different items in-game...
this would provide a special means of thanking those who go that extra mile to contribute to the site.

while i may not be able to afford to contribute much monetarily, i would be more than willing to offer up items for drawings for such an activity. i'm sure you'd also get others willing to donate some things here and there, in the absence of not being able to afford cash donations.


Sounds great! You came up with this idea? Was it in another thread I didn't catch? Ya know, because I don't see your posts before mine in this thread where I came up with the idea. If you did, then, sweet, we're on the same wavelength!

[Akhilleus]

Sounds great! You came up with this idea? Was it in another thread I didn't catch? Ya know, because I don't see your posts before mine in this thread where I came up with the idea. If you did, then, sweet, we're on the same wavelength!

ive been proposing this particular method in fansites ive been a part of since 1998/9.

you suggested special titles on the site (which works fine too). i suggested posting a page that actually lists the monthly bill for GWG, as well as monthly donations, so people see what is still needed at any given time, then extended it further with in-game item drawings; as this is something members who are unable to contribute financially, may be able to endorse.

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

[Complete dismantling of argument]
Thank you. Can we please return to the topic at hand here? Please? Well, I guess I'll start.

The first issue I can see with placing ads to the sides of the main contents of a page is that this will create an inordinate amount of "white space" around the sides of the page. Since the advertisers probably wouldn't be open ads at the bottom of the page (since they get less viewing) the only option is to find another place at the top of the page or in the middle of the page's content.

[baz777]

as long as it isnt a pop up and it helps pay for this cool site then i dont mind the ads at all

/fully agree

Although more obvious when I have this site open at work all day ;)

[Terra Xin]

My apologies.

Another area that gets alot of viewing is around the sides of the quick reply box. Since you'll be looking at them for the entire time you post, and I can't see them as being too intrusive I think that could be a good alternative. I agree with the majority of people who dislike looking at an ad right in the way of what is being read. At least when you're typing, it's not so obvious.

Of course only members will be able to see it, and although we have a population of read-only people, most of us have joined...

[kzap]

Ok I have been reading a lot of the posts, thank you for all your feedback :)

Incase you're wondering the Intellitxt inline text ads are still there if you're not logged in, but thats ok since you guys are all loggedin :) It is also now color black, we can agree green was just ugly, also we make sure there are no gold ads but if u see any, a screenshot to webmaster@guildwarsguru.com will help remove it.

So a lot have people have stressed that they dont like the rectangle ad because it intrudes on their personal space/ post, I understand this so we will be testing other methods so that this does not happen. For one we will remove it from the inside of your post and put it outside the post and clearly label it as an advertisement.

As for the donations, thank you for all who wish to donate, such an opportunity will become available shortly and you will all see why we are testing such changes. We are all working here at Guild Wars Guru to bring you better features for you the fans who play this fantastic game.

Once again thanks for all your patronage and keep giving us feedback, if possible in constructive and helpful ways so we can keep on improving Guild Wars Guru.

[Savio]

Intellitxt is the far worse one of the two imo; it's too intrusive, and it likes to link to gold-selling sites.

[Arduinna]

Weird add...:confused: Ain't complaining though.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2656/adbl5.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=adbl5.jpg)

[fenix]

eep, I prefer the Horizontal one in the OP, rather than the HUGE one below it

[MirkoTeran]

So.. can we get rid of the adds or do we have to stop coming here?

[kzap]

ok 2 choices now for testing
Style 1B - Rectangle ad on right of first post.
Style 1A - Rectangle ad as 2nd Post.

They are both labeled and separated as Advertisements.

[arcanemacabre]

Please.... no seperate box for the ads.

I've seen some forums stick an ad inbetween posts after 10 posts. So, in other words, you have the OP, then 9 replies, then an ad that appears after the 9th reply (10th post), then 10 more replies to fill up the page. Each following page gets the same treatment of an ad every 10 posts, effectively.

This way, only the more popular threads will have ads, which will generally be the most visited as well. Plus, you only see the ad if you scroll through, reading the thread. It should catch enough attention, and not be too much of a hinderance on the posters or readers.

Re-formatting someone's post for whatever reason, be it squishing for ad-space or the hot-links, is what I consider unacceptable. I'd say leave the content of posts alone, except for moderation purposes only.

Otherwise, I still say this site will make much more money with donations than advertisements, any day. It's simpler, less trashy, and in the end would make everyone happy, I think. That I think is the way to go.

[Kidney Licker]

How about creating a thread with links to online retailers? If guru became affiliated with some, forum members could click on the links when they wanted to buy something and guru would receive royalites.

I'm intending to buy something from www.choicesuk.com in the future and would be more than happy to click on a link from guru when buying something from them.

[DJJD2006]

Yeh, I suggest the add being another banner along the bottom of the page just above the

"All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:53 AM."

[ran93r]

The in-thread ads are annoying as is the ask.com text, ads can be a necessary evil but the links are just pointless and completely unrelated to anything GW.

I would like to see however a "donation" option to remove all ads/search links (including the main banner), I for one would happily pony up an annual fee for this feature because I want to support the site but at the moment, firefox ad blocker is an easy way to kill everything you are looking at implementing.

[Theocrat]

ok 2 choices now for testing
Style 1B - Rectangle ad on right of first post.
Style 1A - Rectangle ad as 2nd Post.

They are both labeled and separated as Advertisements.
1A seems to be the less intrusive of the two, unless I misinterpret your description, from my perspective... Then again, maybe I'm biased, as it's what I used to use on my own various sites. :ninja:

[Da Scotty]

I too understand the need for advertising, even more so on a website that doesn’t charge users for its excellent service.
Also I don’t mind it, but perhaps put the advertising after the first post and before the first reply. Looks better and doesnt "invade" peoples posts. I don’t like my posts being "invaded" by ads.

But i will never stop coming back to Guru.


:ninja:

[Vilaptca]

IMO, adding a line and typing the words advertisement doesn't make it any less in the posts and part of the thread than it was before.

[Slainster]

Ads IN the threads is/are extremely intrusive and, to me at least, very unwelcome.

/agreed

[Livingston]

*VOMITS ALL OVER THE BOARD*

Sorry but if advertisements stay inside the posts, even being divided by a thin black line, I will most definitely leave this site.

They make my guides look completely ridiculous.

I would also say that as an avid GWG contributor, this one act alone could destroy the site’s status as an elite GW fan site. You may think I am joking but I have seen forums crash and burn for similar offenses.

I entirely understand the need for support as I have ran boards myself in the past, but you really need to figure out another way to do it.

As is, I consider them to be offensive.

BTW: The advertisements don't even show up for me, they are just huge blank squares with advertisement written above them. I don't have any special programs to block them either.

Livingston

[Witchblade]

i hate those new ads as well :(
pages are already awfully slow at loading, doesnt help a bit...

add banners at the bottoms of pages but in or as posts :(

[Sir Mad]

If I can use this analogy with GW, this in-post advertizing reminds me all the W.TSellers who think spamming the "all" chat will make them sell more, when it has actually the opposite effect: players who don't want to caution that won't buy if they can find the item somewhere else. That just doesn't work.

Another rant, again, yeah. But this thread is also a kind of survey to know what the members of this forum think about it. I won't repeat what I said in my 1st post, but I tried yesterday to browse the forum as I do usually. I just couldn't. I'm prolly allergic to advertizing or something, but I just can't "concentrate" on a thread with these in-post adverts. I haven't posted in any topic but this one since. I just can't. I'm not saying this to "threaten" you or anything: no one cares if I leave the forum or not, and its popularity won't decrease because *I* leave. However this thread is made to give his point of view, isn't it?

About being constructive now. The problem is we can't really be constructive as we don't know what the deal is. I'm not asking you to post how much the site costs, how much you earn from adverts, etc, if you don't want to. However, it would be quite interesting, and constructive for us to know simple facts like: "the banner on the top of the site pays x% of the site", "in-post adverts generate x% more money than side-adverts for example", etc, so we can know what the deal is.

A few very interesting suggestions have been posted in this forum, including the very original idea of posting weekly how much the site has costed, how much money has been generated by adverts, how much you still need, etc. Another idea would be to add a discret but still noticable donate button on the redirect pages (after having posted a thread or a reply for ex). That's my 2 cents...

[Skuld]

I'm for the every 10th post being an ad like suggest previously.

[Warrior Of The Toon]

Puttin a big, intrusive box in the first post just plain ruins it. Find some other way to fit the necessary advertisments in, anything that doesn't have a major detrimental affect on the threads, so in other words - no big boxes inside of posts. Even having every other post as an advert would be better! Maybe stick a box between the last post and reply box - that would get plenty of views and wouldn't generate so much hate.

[Inde]

I'm just going to copy and paste from my earlier statements in this thread:

No, we still don't allow the discussion of ad blockers :) Please, this is just a test I think you can all see that we are making changes and taking your constructive and valid suggestions as we progress here. There is absolutely no reason to go over-the-top as we test this out. Please continue to leave feedback, let us know about any bugs you see. Change is never taken lightly, especially in a forum setting, and we are all very aware of that. Nowhere has anyone stated that this is permanent, that it won't be changed, that we aren't taking suggestions or listening to your feedback.

[Rampager]

yeah that ad in the first post is really annoying i think maybe it is better to go with the an ad maybe after the first post or another banner above Post Reply/Thread. as said many times before the ad in the post is just very intrusive and it has screwed up many toturials posted around the site. my 2 cents

[Pkest]

ads in threads must stop.

[Xenrath]

There really is quite a lot of unused real estate under the "quick reply" box, but another option you might wish to consider instead of putting ads in the first post: a "layer" approach, for example the floaty ad thingies which come up on GeoCities pages.

[Inde]

I think some might be missing this as it wasn't really clarified, but if you scroll down to the bottom left-hand of any page in the forum you'll see a drop down box with different versions of the forum skin. On the Guild Wars Guru V1A version it has the ads as the 2nd post in every thread. That's currently what we are wanting feedback on versus having them in the 1st post. So if some of you could look at that :)

[Feminist Terrorist]

No, please, no floaty ad thingies. They are horribly annoying. Even worse than the Intellitxt, IMO.

Thanks for pointing out the different skins Inde. I'll go play with those straight away.


I looked, but I really don't like either option. :(

[skretth]

V1A is good
and from the areas of the forums I mostly use which is services, buy, sell and high end. This would actually be better as it is seperating the service from teh comments.

[Livingston]

Im fine with the V1A version (though I hate the skin), but that's mostly because the adds still don't show up for me, thus it simply creates a thin blank line under the OP...

Livingston

[Inde]

Some information: The majority of our traffic is not from repeat users. Growth continues. The majority of our users are guests. The majority of our traffic is not even those who directly come to this site but through search engines. And we are working on a compromise. We are taking your suggestions, we are tweaking, fixing and implementing even as we speak. Please leave the dramatics out. I want to come up with a happy medium and solution as much as all of you want to. We have many things coming down the line right now, this is a test of ads and we continue to appreciate all the construcive feedback and criticism.

[unienaule]

I vote for the V1A option, it's much less annoying in my opinion since the ads aren't right next to what you're reading. However, that might also mean the ads there are less effective.

Also, there's no fast edit in V1A, and I get null errors on every page I open.

[Xenex Xclame]

OMG , please no on the current inbetween 1st and 2nd post.
Thats is my suggestion ( inbetween 1st and 2nd) but the size has to be changed,make it longer and shorter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| | | |
| |
|_________________________________________________ _____________|

[Oofus]

V1A (under 1st post of each page) gets my vote, but it would look much better if the ads were longer and shorter, as the above poster suggested, similar to the banner ads at the top of the pages.

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

I'm assuming by "longer and shorter" (which are opposites, BTW) that you mean "wider and shorter"? I'm all for that.

[Livingston]

Some information: The majority of our traffic is not from repeat users. Growth continues. The majority of our users are guests. The majority of our traffic is not even those who directly come to this site but through search engines. And we are working on a compromise. We are taking your suggestions, we are tweaking, fixing and implementing even as we speak. Please leave the dramatics out. I want to come up with a happy medium and solution as much as all of you want to. We have many things coming down the line right now, this is a test of ads and we continue to appreciate all the construcive feedback and criticism.

I don't know exactly what the true intent of this post was, but it said to me that you don't really care about your repeat users because we don't make up the majority of the traffic and thus you can live without us. I assume that wasn't your intent, but that is how it came across to me.

Guests are always the largest source of traffic on any decent size message board. However, most guests don't post, they lurk. Repeat users are the ones who post. Thus repeat users are the ones who actually make this board what it is. If you alienate your repeat users, they leave (and will probably delete any core content they have attributed on their way out), if they leave you have no posts, if you have no posts, your guest list will plumet.

I had to learn this the hard way, as I too thought along the same lines looking at my main sources of traffic. I now have a dead board. It's as simple as that.

As for people saying that they will leave if the current add thing stays, I don't believe it's being dramatic at all, simply truthful. I would say most of the users that are 23 or older have been long time members of many different message boards over the years, as such they know the signs of when a message board is going to hell, and I can tell you that things like this never bode well. As such, most experienced message board users would want to nip it in the bud before things get too far out of hand. It’s a very messy business when a message board you visit on a consistent basis starts to bring in things that ruin your desire to return to the board. Instead of getting into a big drawn out conflict of trying to change the board to something that they can continue to support, most of us have been through it so many times, that we would simply rather cut it and move on.

Livingston

[Oofus]

I'm assuming by "longer and shorter" (which are opposites, BTW) that you mean "wider and shorter"? I'm all for that.
Actually "longer" is a reference to length whereas "shorter" is a reference to height. So I don’t understand your confusion, they are not opposites, they refer to two different dimensions. But if you prefer the term "wider" to "longer" then so be it, you seem to get the general idea. ;)

[cosyfiep]

hm, in response to the 'guest' issue--I dont sign in unless I have something to reply. I see no need to sign in when I get logged out after trying to look at 10 pages or so and then needing to sign back in (the lagg, you see, it takes forever to view pages and by the time I get there I have been logged out). SO many of the so called GUESTS are people who just havent signed on. So I guess I am messing with the stats for this site seeing as I only 'visit' maybe once a day, but I have it up and running most of the time and check it when I feel like looking at white pages, or working on my patience title.....



cant get the v1a to work--only get pages of white or the error notice. oh well

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

Actually "longer" is a reference to length whereas "shorter" is a reference to height. So I don’t understand your confusion, they are not opposites, they refer to two different dimensions. But if you prefer the term "wider" to "longer" then so be it, you seem to get the general idea. ;)
I was attempting to distinguish what exactly you meant by making the ads "longer and shorter". If you are going to argue with me for trying to clarify your poorly written post, then go ahead. I'm not taking the thread any farther off topic.

[Zui]

I think some might be missing this as it wasn't really clarified, but if you scroll down to the bottom left-hand of any page in the forum you'll see a drop down box with different versions of the forum skin. On the Guild Wars Guru V1A version it has the ads as the 2nd post in every thread. That's currently what we are wanting feedback on versus having them in the 1st post. So if some of you could look at that :)

Absolutly love the V1A add style. It's much better, and doesn't really bother me much. However, the V1A skin is not that great compared to the V1B skin.

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

Absolutly love the V1A add style. It's much better, and doesn't really bother me much. However, the V1A skin is not that great compared to the V1B skin.
I'm assuming that implementing V1A would not mean changing forum skins?

[Wrath Of Dragons]

Ok. Iv decided the 1a is preferable, as long as we get to keep the 1b skin
I find that the reformatting of peoples posts to be intrusive, as well as distracting. The 1a format just looks...cleaner. less jumbled.

[-LiamB]

Even though I don't like anyway,

I like the current one we have, seperated by a black line.


-LiamB

[Inde]

I don't know exactly what the true intent of this post was, but it said to me that you don't really care about your repeat users because we don't make up the majority of the traffic and thus you can live without us. I assume that wasn't your intent, but that is how it came across to me.

The post I was referring to was deleted :) So it's taken out of context. I was pointing out growth. What I stated was fact, guests make up the majority of our traffic. The "dramatics" was also pointed at the deleted post. I don't believe I ever implied anywhere that I don't care or take into consideration our Registered Users. I think it's quite obvious that I care as I'm here, I'm responding, we are making changes based on your suggestions and are working toward a solution. I've managed forums and fansites for more than a few number of years, I'm aware of the cycle they take.

[Amity and Truth]

Hrm. About the Online Users list.

Is it really needed? Does anyone actually use it? And if so, does it justify a plus in traffic by 71 KB? I actually went as far as to save the index file and cut the whole userlist out manually to compare the filesize. It's a whooping 128 KB versus 57 KB without the list. This list is probably even generated everytime a user refreshes the page, bombarding the Database with a myriad of querys.

If removing it is no option, then make it optional so that it doesn't load everytime someone visits the overview. And i'm doing that quite often for example.

[Inde]

Oh I believe we've taken it down before and a lot of people screamed over that as well :) We've disabled it for unregistered users and it is a tool for staff and I imagine several other forum users. If that's something you all feel you would like to do away with then please leave your thoughts.

[Amity and Truth]

Hrm...
Maybe make it an option in the CP? That should please everyone as those that want it can easily activate it and those that don't need it can save some traffic.

/edit:
Besides, Guild Wars Players are known for complaining about everything :P

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

Besides, Guild Wars Players are known for complaining about everything
Unfortunately, as much as we joke about it, it happens to be true. I would recommend taking all the criticisms here (including mine) for what they're worth, and then make the decision that you guys think is best for all of us.

[Mercury Angel]

Definitely 1A, but I'd suggest lengthening and thinning it if you aren't already going to. I'd also prefer they not be in the threads at all, but I guess that's not constructive <_<

Also, regarding the guests bit, I think people are taking it the wrong way; Intellitext is still enabled for guests. Preference is definitely angled towards logged-in users.

GWOnline seems to have had the same deal. In order to cut back on users, though, they simply upped the requirements to even VIEW anything to logged-in users. If the guest users had created accounts, they'd have the exact same problem they always had, and that's not a solution; It's a patch-job that relies on other people being too indignant and/or lazy to stick around.

The end-result is that many users simply leave, and head over to other fansites. I'm willing to bet if we forbade guest accounts from viewing as well, like GWO, most people would call Guild Wiki their home fansite, and it'd be down even more than it already tends to go down.


Guru is still growing and still working on how to handle that growth. As forums, I don't think any guild wars fansite has more regulars, including members and guests. The ads in text has never been a 'deal-breaker' for me, but even if it were, I'd stick it out for a bit to give the hard-working administration a chance to manage as best as they can.

You have to keep in mind that the ad revenues are not often as great as people paint them out to be. And ad revenue vs resource usage only goes DOWN as time goes by, because people learn to use ad blocking software, without understanding the implications it has on the free internet we all know and love.
The difference between revenue and cost always comes out of the administration's OWN pockets in the red.

And despite the above, the administration works as hard as ever for the community. Guild Wars Guru has hosted numerous promotions thanks to Inde's hard work negotiating with companies in order to give out prizes of varying values in contests.

I don't get anything out of saying the above. I don't see any particular glory in deleting people's posts and banning individuals. I don't get paid, nor do I get any particularly amazing perks above a registered user beyond the ability to always use the search engine to perform moderation functions.
I say this out of my own respect for the administration.

Even dealing with personal issues in life, certain administrators kept working hard to restore functionality to various portions of the site that had been lost in the server move. Recently, some of those efforts have been fruitful, resulting in the restoration and overhaul of the site's database system.
Other administrators have been constantly logged in to the IRC channel for Guild Wars Guru, which there is absolutely no profit to be had in, for the sole purpose of giving a place to the community to chat in real time. The moderators also often give up some of their time not moderating the forums to handle the IRC channel.

Guild Wars Guru is a labour of love, by the community, and for the community. All I mean to say is... have a little faith. Or don't. It's your choice. But judging the administration without taking a step back to look at all the things they do, not for profit or lining their pockets, but for the sake of the community, is just plain foolish.

Sorry for the long speech <_<

Edit: Forgot to mention the auction system. Sorry Dral >< Another feature the site gets nothing for created solely for the convenience of users, and managed with the time of a hard-working administrator who has real life responsibilities as well.

[Malice Black]

1A is better in apperence.

@Those of you that threaten to leave..you know where the door is, shut it behind you, thank you. ( Yes that is childish much like your "threats" )

[Doomlord_Slayermann]

1A is better in apperence.

@Those of you that threaten to leave..you know where the door is, shut it behind you, thank you. ( Yes that is childish much like your "threats" )
Annoying ads are going to drive some people away, and it is an issue to address. However, I'll agree that this discussion would be better without the whining on the part of some (and I know Inde has been keeping the thread clean, good job on that!).

[Livingston]

The post I was referring to was deleted :) So it's taken out of context. I was pointing out growth. What I stated was fact, guests make up the majority of our traffic. The "dramatics" was also pointed at the deleted post. I don't believe I ever implied anywhere that I don't care or take into consideration our Registered Users. I think it's quite obvious that I care as I'm here, I'm responding, we are making changes based on your suggestions and are working toward a solution. I've managed forums and fansites for more than a few number of years, I'm aware of the cycle they take.

Ah thank you, that makes much more sense. :)

Livingston

[shaolin mind trick]

I'm definately liking the '1A' version better.

[Lasareth]

1a Please <3

[arcanemacabre]

Agreed. 1A (now that I know how to change that) is the way to go, IMO. 1A with the 1B skin, at least.

[Stockholm]

I hav allready asked Inde how to delet my account.
I will not have an add in my posts, It looks like I personally recomend the site or product in the ad. It is not proper unless the OP can approve the ads next to his/her name.

[Thargor]

I say go with whatever gets the site the most money. I could care less if the ad is in the first post, inbetween posts or wherever. I see alot of people complaining about ads but only see a few people offering to make donations.
Usually in this situation only half of the people that say they would make a donation actually do, so stick with the ads.
Ads are part of life. You pass them on the road in your car, you pass them in every aisle of the grocery store, and they interupt every show on TV.This is not a new concept and everyone should be used to it by now.
I am surprised to find so many important people here that are too good to be a member of a site with ads on it and have to threaten to leave, personally i say good ridance to them!
Keep up as many ads as you need to, I will keep clicking on them.

[Inde]

Stockholm, I have all ready told you that vbulletin software does not allow for a user to delete their forum account. If you need any further help or would like to discuss then please respond to the PM I have sent. :)

We are still working on this everyone. I am still reading every post and responding so continue to post your thoughts and feedback.

[Livingston]

I hav allready asked Inde how to delet my account.
I will not have an add in my posts, It looks like I personally recomend the site or product in the ad. It is not proper unless the OP can approve the ads next to his/her name.

Dude... lay off the prozac and take a chill pill.

At least allow them the opportunity to weigh things up and make a final decision. If they come out and say this is how it's going to be and you still don't like it, then take a hike. Otherwise, sit back and give some constructive feedback rather than 1000 killajolts of overkill baloney.

Posts like that do more to ruin your dignity than any add attached to your name could possibly do.

If it really means so much to you simply delete the posts that have the adverts on them, edit them to blank space, or write a little message saying a "I do not support said product in any shape or manner, but I must inform you that they use kittens as their main meat stock."

:D

It is true that this is a serious situation for many people politically as well as ascetically, and you have a right to get your point across, but the bar for equal reaction only reaches so high, and you’ve done went Evel Knievel on its ass and jumped it with a motorcycle.

Livingston

[arcanemacabre]

It is true that this is a serious situation for many people politically as well as ascetically, and you have a right to get your point across, but the bar for equal reaction only reaches so high, and you’ve done went Evel Knievel on its ass and jumped it with a motorcycle.

LMAO

Dude, you are my hero. :D

[tifaRockheart]

I also favor 1a’s ad placement

And I also agree with Thargor’s point about advertisements, except I feel that there is a certain limit to how much and how far advertisements can go.

GWG has not come close to that limit for me in 1a and 1b’s designs. (meaning I’m fine with both and I'd be fine with more ads if needed).

My personal limit would probably be advertisements with sounds that activate on their own and floating ads that hover over items I wish to view/read until I click them to close (I hate when flash is used to create these :(). I’m not sure if I’d leave if these types of ads did start showing up, but I’d certainly be a bit discouraged from wanting to view the forums.

[Syklone Xaos]

If we only have a choice between the two options currently in our UserCP settings, I'll choose 1A. However, they're pretty annoying either way.

In particular, the site was pretty slow for me before the new ads, so adding to the load times by sending me more images is a big negative for visiting this forum.

I would be open to "donating" some reasonable (<=$10) annual fee that results in the complete removal of any and all advertising content from the site, a la Slashdot and similar sites.

[Bibblenorn]

I like 1A as well. 1B makes long posts too squished.

I have a suggestion. I don't know if it is possible, and it might just be too much trouble if it is, but once you guys have enough ads cycling though, it would be awesome if we could select the TYPE of ad we see. For example: I would be much more likely to click on an ad that features computer/game content, or book content, or things like that. I am seriously NOT interested in an online degree or whatever. I started playing PuzzlePirates due to an ad on RealLife Comics website, and GoPets due to an ad on the PinkPoogleToy.com website. Heck, I'd rather see shampoo ads than online degree ads. That is just me though.

I fully support the additional advertisments though. I'd kinda expected them sooner, honestly.

[Sol_Vie]

Frankly put, I really hate them. They're a distraction, not all of them are picked up by my ad blocker, and they're just... well... they're so annoying!

Keep the ads out of the posts. If they need to be in the posts... eh well I suppose there's nothing I can or will do other than be silently annoyed. =\

If I had to choose one? 1a.

[Makkert]

I don't know what to say, except that I agree that the ads are too much 'in your face' style.

[Skuld]

1A plz

[Vilaptca]

If the only choices are 1a and 1b, then 1a.

[Phoenix Denfer]

My top choice is no ads in the thread at all.

If we have to deal with it, then IA, but get rid of the block and go with a narrow banner as well as further down in the thread.

Personally, I find it annoying and intrusive to have ads for Eve Online in the middle of a GW's related thread. I REALLY find the totally unrelated ads to any game (Joke of the Day anyone?) to be on the site. ( I don't want to click the funny face, I want to hit it.)

I won't say it would drive me away just yet, because the level of information here is still very high, but I would caution that Guild Wiki has and continues to grow into an extremely invaluable wealth of information that I find I visit more and more frequently and before a fan forum. In addition, alliances have aided in creating in-game communities that were once only truly available at fan forums.

I hope that the Admins will keep this in mind when weighing costs. Livingston is speaking wisely to you that unlike the original days of GW's, the times they are changing and you may find that these tactics will in the end drive your regular posters away, and in in turn your lurkers. It won't be overnight, but it may very well be by release of the next chapter. This site which I always saw as the premiere fan forum for up to date information, is already losing ground to Guild Wiki as the one stop shop for all game related information. You see it posted here when noobies ask questions, and you see it posted in chat in world whereas before it was always the url to this forum.

Once again Inde, if you need a more solid revenue stream to keep the forum running, at least allow us the chance to donate or purchase premium memberships. We don't pay online fees to play the game so I think we can handle a one time (re: annual) membership to what is still the top fan forum for the GW's franchise.

[Malice Black]

I hope that the Admins will keep this in mind when weighing costs. Livingston is speaking wisely to you that unlike the original days of GW's, the times they are changing and you may find that these tactics will in the end drive your regular posters away.

Thats bull, a regular poster like myself and others who have been here 1 year + will NOT leave because of a few ads. GWG is my retreat from GW when I can't be bothered to play (like now). People will leave but they are the ones missing out and they will be replaced by new players who will be grateful for such a site.

The End

[Sir Mad]

^ Well let's not make this as bad as an argue about IWAY ;)

Concerning the "users online" feature: wouldn't it be possible to hide it as a default option instead of having it expanded? That won't solve the problem but that may save bandwidth.

Now concerning the ads, if I have to choose, I vote for the add under the first post (a banner instead of a square advert would be neater IMO).

[Phoenix Denfer]

Thats bull, a regular poster like myself and others who have been here 1 year + will NOT leave because of a few ads. GWG is my retreat from GW when I can't be bothered to play (like now). People will leave but they are the ones missing out and they will be replaced by new players who will be grateful for such a site.

The End

Feel better now?

And you know that regular posters will do just like you because?

I'm seeing feedback from others that have run game forums and they are offering their feedback from experience when the community was not listened too. People who work customer service know that for every 1 person that tells the company their opinion it is actually the same as 100 times more. People that don't care won't bother, they just stop using the product.

You very well may stay despite the ads as will many many others, but many that would have been here contributing and possibly donating via pay-pal or credit card may not.

Some of the biggest forums I'm aware of run these ads in posts, but they also offer a minimal fee to have the ads removed. Its a reasonable trade off and a win win situation for everyone.

I'm not sure why Inde has resisted this option. Perhaps the fees of dealing with pay-pal transactions out weight the support it would give. Credit card transactions are extremely expensive for a merchant. I just would hope that with the current sheer size of this forum, it would in fact pay for those transaction fees and still generate the revenue.

Now, as this is a thread for feed back perhaps you would offer more then scolding those you don't agree with?

editted to add: lol@ sir madd trying to point to the post by Bane and having it point to an "Eve-online" ad. Now if THAT doesn't illustrate how intrusive these ads are on the flow of discussion, I don't know what else would. :D

[Inde]

I have not resisted anything, rest assured. While we get feedback I believe I've encouraged everyone to express their opinion and crticism. Just because I can't comment on something right now doesn't mean I'm resisting any suggestion. :)

We are continuing to take suggestions and make plans. These take time to implement sometimes but we are still actively reading and taking everything into consideration.

[SnipiousMax]

I like V1A much better Inde. That fixes my main complaint.

[Phoenix Denfer]

I have not resisted anything, rest assured. While we get feedback I believe I've encouraged everyone to express their opinion and crticism. Just because I can't comment on something right now doesn't mean I'm resisting any suggestion. :)

We are continuing to take suggestions and make plans. These take time to implement sometimes but we are still actively reading and taking everything into consideration.

That is very reassuring Inde. SPEAKING FOR MYSELF ONLY (*winks at Bane*) I would definately contribute USD to keeping this site up and running as fast and often as possible. I think the very fact that Anet has given it its Elite endorsement is a testament to the level of information that is here for gamers of all levels.

The ads inside the threads are majorly bogging down my desktop system. My laptop has a duel core processor and seems to load pages faster, but I still get lots of script errors and long downloads coming from the ad service providing the ads. So that is my "technical" side issue with it, the other is just flat out, "I don't like ads within the thread." Ads on the site I can deal with, but within the thread is extremely annoying, even when placed inbetween. Again, if the choice has to be in the post or between...please put them inbetween and as banners not blocks.

[Alleji]

The only ad I see showing up right now is EVE, which isn't that bad I guess. At least it's related to this site as opposed to those idiotic "get a degree NOW!!!!11shifty!" dropdown lists that we had previously.

I suppose it's not so much of a problem if the ads are actually on-topic and not brightly flashing.

[kzap]

ok thank you everyone for your feedback, ads are now off registered users :)

[Feminist Terrorist]

I suppose it's not so much of a problem if the ads are actually on-topic and not brightly flashing.

I'm going to pick up on that one thing here, because I think it's important.
Flashing ads are extremely annoying and a health hazard. They can trigger epileptic episodes in those with epilepsy. I think it would be a good idea if those in charge make it a policy/point to not have flashing ads.

[Zui]

ok thank you everyone for your feedback, ads are now off registered users :)

/Cheer

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Sir Mad]

ok thank you everyone for your feedback, ads are now off registered users :)

/cheer :D

And thanks for the site by the way :)

[-LiamB]

I prefer 1B with 1A skin TBH ;)


-LiamB

[Malice Black]

Wtf!!!!111 No Ads!111 Im Leaving!!11 ;)

[Omega X]

I hope revenue from these ads will fix the problems with the site...like the blank php files it keeps sending...

[Malice Black]

Question: Did you keep the ads on the "lurkers" accounts?? since they can't be bothered to register you might as well put them to good use. If a few lurkers leave then no big deal, more bandwidth for the rest of us.

[Sol_Vie]

ok thank you everyone for your feedback, ads are now off registered users :)

:D Good call.

/cheer

Thank you!

[Livingston]

Wow. That makes so much sense it might actually kill me...

X_X


Might I suggest, as it seems like revenue is a problem, that you still add a donate button and give out specific titles for those who have donated certain amounts of money. It's weird but if you make the top title $1,000, I can almost guarantee that at least one person will hit it, just to have the honor of being the only person to have it.

Humans are weird.

Another suggestion is to add a short little message under the current banners at the top of the screen saying something along the lines of: Banner ads generate revenue needed to keep this site running. Please click X amount of times a day to ensure that we cover our costs. Thank you.

Another weird thing, but when I see messages like that I tend to click X amount of times. Otherwise, my mind is my own add blocker and I don't even notice their existence.

Livingston

[Xenrath]

Sell t-shirts, mugs, frisbees I dunno. Could be a variety of things to look into to help raise funds to pay for the site.

Maybe even see if you can get a deal with NCSoft to sell copies of Guild Wars even, after all GWG is listed as #1 in the fan site listings on the official site.

[Prefectus]

Well guru the in post ads (you know the green words) were annoying the rather large ad in the op pissed me off but now im quiting guru over the very large pop in window ads you have decided to deploy...:mad:

i thought you would of started akeing donations befor resorting to this well good bye all its been fun

[Inde]

Prefectus, the only reason you would be seeing any of that is if you are logged out. It's for guests. If you are logged in you won't see any of it, which you had to do to make your post. :) So none of those ads you are speaking of are there for a Registered User.

[Prefectus]

:D Thanks Inde :D

Im all calm now WooT!:D

[Lasareth]

For all you guests, that means sign up and you'll get a clean board to view. Pretty nice deal huh.

[Malice Black]

For all you guests, that means sign up and you'll get a clean board to view. Pretty nice deal huh.

It would be great to see that there is more members logged on then guests viewing BUT that will bring guru down to snails pace..

[Esprit]

I just got redirected to an ad site, with a banner:

This ad is brought to you by GuildWarsGuru.

Below the banner is the site, and in the banner to the right is a link to "Skip this ad".

[MONKEYSUGAR]

I just got redirected to an ad site, with a banner:

This ad is brought to you by GuildWarsGuru.

Below the banner is the site, and in the banner to the right is a link to "Skip this ad".

I started noticing that annoying new pop up a day or two ago, as well. Much worse then the OP ad, or underlined links. I suppose that this ad would go away, as with the others if I log in, but the whole reason I came to these forums was to view threads without having to log in every visit.

[Inde]

You won't see the ads if you are logged in. And the forums are viewable for guests.

[ducktape]

Um...not sure if this happens to anyone else, but the new full-page ad where you need to click Skip This Ad to get it out of the way, every time it has come up for me it has been a huge ad for World of Warcraft stuff. That doesn't sound right o_0

I understand the random ad links in posts sometimes being for World of Warcraft, but this new big ad for World of Warcraft that is allegedly "brought to you by Guild Wars Guru" seems odd.

[Malice Black]

Um...not sure if this happens to anyone else, but the new full-page ad where you need to click Skip This Ad to get it out of the way, every time it has come up for me it has been a huge ad for World of Warcraft stuff. That doesn't sound right o_0

I understand the random ad links in posts sometimes being for World of Warcraft, but this new big ad for World of Warcraft that is allegedly "brought to you by Guild Wars Guru" seems odd.

Never had any such ad appear...like Inde said ad's do appear if you are not logged in.

[Inde]

I understand the random ad links in posts sometimes being for World of Warcraft, but this new big ad for World of Warcraft that is allegedly "brought to you by Guild Wars Guru" seems odd.
Um, be glad it's not Viagra or Hot Sexy Singles???? LOL, at least it's a gaming related ad. So we should probably rejoice or we might just see the Senior Sizzle again. *shudder*

(Okay so there was probably too many inside jokes in that statement but I know someone will get it.)

[chris_nin00]

I don't know the exact details of the Senior Sizzle incident. I don't even think I was here yet. Oh well

Ads don't seem to be a real big problem. It just keeps paying to become a member and logging in all the time.