Mesmer

[mushy]

Hey there, i created a mesmer 2weeks ago in prophecies...as i started the missions and primary quests people wouldn't add me to their groups...only 'new' ppl to the game who i guess don't know too much about professions added me.

Eventually i went to ToA - got some ob armour and capped an elite for which i needed for this build....

I went thro the desert and jungle missions and people wouldn't want a mesmer in their group...eventually i jumped from the desert to southern shiverpeaks...It wasn't untill i got from ice caves..thk...iron mines etc that people would add me, or accept my invitation - thro to the fire islands, where people added me also, and dragon's lair. :p

Now i'm just wondering what do people feel about mesmer's, from about 70% of my game play in prophecies i had to resort to henchies and friends helping out..(shows that most of the missions you can henchie...)

The build i'm using is a high dmg...i can deal dmg faster to a single target than most of builds with maybe the exception of ele...and with my energy management i can use the skills over and over again on the next target..with one healing spell i often on the outside of the action yet a real high dmg dealer... :D

I guess i figured that the further in the story line i got, the more people added me...maybe the more 'experienced players' feel that a mesmer can be an asset to the team. What do you feel? :o

[Ray]

Yeah, sure.

[XvArchonvX]

ok, first of all, is this your first character? If so, how did you get Obsidian Armor in 2 weeks? As for your questions, it's hard to find a group with almost any profession in Prophecies nowadays, unless you happen to be on at a good time (although the same could be said of Factions. Unwaking anyone?). The reason you might have had more success end game missions may have been because mesmers are seen by many as more effective against higher level enemies/bosses than in earlier in the game. Anyone who has gotten stuck hacking away at a monk boss, watching it constantly heal itself will realize that more than pure damage and healing is needed for later missions. This is when people learn the effectiveness of being able to shutdown certain enemies. Even if you aren't built to shutdown monks, people generally see Mesmers as more of a shutdown class than a damage class since much of their damage potential is situational.

[mushy]

Please don't question how i get armour etc..i've been playing gw for a long time, i've just never thought of creating a mesmer. Stay on topic :p

[broodijzer]

how did you get obsidian armor without ascending anyway?

I always take mesmers since I have played one myself. They are great, but other people don't see it.
They see that warrior taking aggro, they see all those flames from the ele, they see the health ticking away from enemies because of spiteful, they see the monk healing, but they don't see the energy of some insane boss going to 0.

[BlackBinary]

(woo-hoo first post, lol.)

IMO, mesmers arnt viewed as an important part of a team, until the later areas. for a good chunk of the missions, shutdown, interupt, dot, all arent as needed as damage or healing. In my experience, teams would opt to have monks and eles over mes's and even eles are feeling the hurt. I think damage mesmers, like yours are getting picked so rarely because damage isnt what most teams look for; hexes, shutdowns, interrupts, are all more popular, thats not to say damage is a bad build, its just people assume it can be attained more easily by more damage oriented profs (e.g. warrior,or ele)

Well, thats my two cents anyways.
EDIT: Spelling

[Azagoth]

Eventually i went to ToA - got some ob armour and capped an elite for which i needed for this build....

I went thro the desert and jungle missions and people wouldn't want a mesmer in their group...

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to explain just how you managed to get FoW armour before going to the desert? You have to complete all three desert missions before you can kill your doppleganger and ascend which in turn allows you to enter the FoW!

[led-zep]

i always welcome a mes to my team or a team i'm in, i like em, always have always will.

[Skuld]

And the point of this is?

[Franco]

Thats because most new players dont know how good a mesmer can be, in fact even old players dont know how good a mesmer is :). I used to charr hunt solo at level 8 with my mesmer in pre searing, while the warrior was looking for a monk to help him just so you can see ;), People say mesmers are good in pvp and not in pve but they are wrong about that, why is a mesmer good in pvp? Because he already knows what he is going to face and can tweak his build to counter it? lol better in pve then when the monsters are always the same thing, Mesmer was my first character and still the most fun to play with :) , By the way, Im not gonna ask you about the obsidian armor because its pretty obvious how you got it but, What elite mesmer skill near TOA ? :s i thought there wasnt any elite skills until the desert missions.

[The truth itself]

And the point of this is?

Discussing the Mesmer's role in parties.

[zwei2stein]

In early (sub L20) game, playes new to messmer profession suck badly - most poeple dont get point of profession and they try to create damage builds, or they fall to Me/E nuker and such stuff. So, they are highly undesiable to pugs

In middle game, those people usually learned a bit about being messmer, but still cant be trusted to be competent enough to warant their usefullness in certain areas. and since missions are designed to benefit way more from pure damage class that shutdown/support class, there is no reall reason to want them.

In late game, they are quite fair, but as with every class, people are more wary. and sucky messmer is worse disaster for team than any other class, as it means wasted slot, maybe except monk. making you somewhat desirable for pugs.

[Legolas Ravenwood]

how did you get obsidian armor without ascending anyway?
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to explain just how you managed to get FoW armour before going to the desert? You have to complete all three desert missions before you can kill your doppleganger and ascend which in turn allows you to enter the FoW!
Now then let's look at the OP's choice of words:

Eventually i went to ToA - got some ob armour and capped an elite for which i needed for this build....

Oh would you look at that. He said eventually. Now lets looks at dictionary.com's definition of the word eventually shall we?

finally; ultimately; at some later time: Eventually we will own the house free and clear.
It seems that a few people should read properly before judging or questioning others.

[Ole Man Bourbon]

Most groups don't want mesmers. Then again, most groups are full of incompentent crap noobs. Do the math.

[Maika Boila Radovu]

In late game, they are quite fair, but as with every class, people are more wary. and sucky messmer is worse disaster for team than any other class, as it means wasted slot, maybe except monk. making you somewhat desirable for pugs.

I'd definately agree that most mesmer players for some reason try to do damage rather what they were designed for. I remeber when I first made my Mesmer back in the beta's it came with a little warning on the character selection screen. It said it was an advanced class and only experienced players should create them. I guess this holds true.

As far as a poor mesmer being a the worst for a team I'd disagree. A bad mesmer is just one empty spot on the list basically. A bad warrior is by far the worst for a team. If you get a warrior who constanly rushes ahead he will quite pull the monks too far forward, split the group into two so the monks have to run back and forth, and use up an insane amount of the monks energy healing him. So a bad warrior is more than just one empty slot on the list.

[Legolas Ravenwood]

Let's create an instance.

"Hello my name is John. I'm a fairly experienced player with fair knowledge of skills, conditions and a few spells. I'm creating a group for the quest The Way Is Blocked. My party so far consists of me, a Ranger, two Warriors, one Elementalist and a Healer. I have 3 invitations from people wanting to join this group. They are from a Mesmer, a Warrior and a Ranger."

"I need to choose from one of those guys or gals to be in my team. My first thought is that three is a croud, so the Warrior isn't my favourite choice since we have two already. He will be using Sever and Gash no doubt for maximum Warrior effectiveness with ease. Atleast one of our Warriors here will have the Sever and Gash combo so they will collide. Let's check out this Ranger."

"I think to myself he will be using Power Shot and Penetrating Shot, both costing 10 energy. However at this early stage of the game he cannot possibly maintain energy without attribute points into Expertise. He might have an interrupt such as Savage Shot or Distracting shot but I have an interrupt too. We can't be having me and him wasting interrupts for the same spell on the same target. Let's not take the Ranger. "

"Last on the list, the Mesmer. I don't know too much about the Mesmer apart from the basic popular skills such as Distortion and Conjure Phantasm. My guess is that she is an Illusionist with Conjure Phantasm. However, she doesn't have many Illusion skills yet so she must have some other skills in another attribute chain. Could be a few healing spells since she is a Monk too. Her main damage skill is Conjure Phantasm. She might have Empathy or Backfire but then he would need points in Domination. He has 3 attribute chains to spread her points in so her skills will not be effective. Let's drop her."

"The party is waiting, so I'll grab the Healer Henchman. They will never know because if my party is full they cannot invite themselves to see who is in the group!"

My point is that every class is looked over, but the Mesmer is looked over without knowledge. People don't take time to remember what the Hexes do. If they see that Power Shot does +10-25 damage, they will remember that because it's simple. If they see that Shatter Delusions removes a Mesmer Hex and does damage, they will forget that it is a Mesmer Hex that needs to be removed. The skills involve thinking about more than the basic attacks. This is my opinion but I guess it could be wrong.

:)

[BohemianKeith]

A bad ranger can still spam barrage, a bad warrior can still take dmg, a bad ele can still doe some dmg to groups but a bad mesmer is as usefull as tits on a bull.
Personally i always try and take a mesmer, they do their part in the battle quietly and subtle which is why its so hard for them to get into a group. The mesmers part in a fight isnt a blaringly obvious as a meteor shower so it will always be hard to get into a group.

[Darl]

..(shows that most of the missions you can henchie...)

Actualy, all GW: P missions can be hencied ;) (i have not finished GW:F yet, so i cant tell you if all of them can be hencied, but the ones up to the joining of a faction are easy to do with your loyal NPC friends).

People dont pic mesmers, because they dont know what they do, and when they do something, its not as noticable as when a warrior smacks someone with a big hammer, or a meteor hits the target.

Also, when compairing mesmers to necros:
if you were an idiot, would you
A: Pick the person who can make the enemy healthbar purple, and have some purple sparkle around you
or
B: pick the person who can make the enemy healthbar purple, and have a vast undead army
?

[mushy]

thx for your comments, i read the forums alot...but i hardly post...Legolas Ravenwood and the moderator, do you have to write posts like that? i just just asking people's oppinions about the matter, that is what the forum is for? i just wanted to know if i was in the same boat...
i'm sorry if my post sounded odd, i am not english therefore my puncuation and grammer is not very good. so sentences may be in the wrong place.

''Maika Boila Radovu'' and ''zwei2stein'' thank you for answering my question, i understand now. i apprechiate your posts. :)

as for the armour, i've been playing since the start of gw, tho, still to this day i haven't tried out 2 professions, excluding mesmer. i got the armour through merchanting, and 55ing..i guess like that's how everyone gets it?

[lightblade]

...The mesmers part in a fight isnt a blaringly obvious as a meteor shower so it will always be hard to get into a group.

I think that part also holds true for SS nec. But how come they get accepted into groups?

[Paperfly]

I think that part also holds true for SS nec. But how come they get accepted into groups?
...because a SS necro can genuinely out-damage every elementalist in the game with ease (they don't even need to echo it). The word's gone around just enough that they can get into groups (though their acceptance still isn't automatic).

Additionally, necromancers are the most powerful class in PvE to such an extent that people are willing to take chances on them. It's unfair, but there you go. :p

[Valkyries]

...because a SS necro can genuinely out-damage every elementalist in the game with ease (they don't even need to echo it). The word's gone around just enough that they can get into groups (though their acceptance still isn't automatic).

Additionally, necromancers are the most powerful class in PvE to such an extent that people are willing to take chances on them. It's unfair, but there you go. :p

QFT

@OP

The problem as what most people said is that Mesmers are a complex class.... and people simply don't understand them. So they just reject them because they don't understand what they do. Its funny, whenever I play my Mes Im the one dishing out more damage than the Warriors but no one ever says boo. No one ever says anything about Mesmers because they don't see it. They don't notice that those Mobs are all completely blind.... they don't notice that the boss can't get their spells off because they are being interupted. People are ignorant for the most part and if you aren't wielding a sword/Axe + Shield or making pretty meteor looking things fly off the screen then its no good.

The thing about SS is people KNOW what a Necro does. You most likely are either SS or MM if you are Necro (I said most likely before someone chews my head off).... so people know what kind of power SS does. People don't know what kind of power a Mesmer can bring unless they have one themselves. New/early levels mean more noobs who know nothing, which explains why you can't get groups there but CAN in the late missions.

[Trakata]

My first character was a Mesmer. Back then I never had any problems with groups but we've gotten an influx of ingnorance in GW and now I have trouble grouping for anything.

Not all newbs are noobs, remember that.

[Franco]

Same most people in pve never heard of Ineptitude, E-surge, Migraine, but with necros most people know what a SS,MM or battery necro is, which are the most builds used in PvE.

[LouAl]

It is basic human reaction - the confused mind says no

Think back on all the RPGs you have ever seen...what classes did they have? Warriors, elementalists (mages/wizards/whatever), Rangers/elfs/etc, Necromancers, Monks/healers, but, but, but, what about the mesmer? That is a big part of the problem, that people don't know where mesmers fit or what mesmers do or why they should give them a second look. They see a mesmer invite and think "how would this person help the group? well they...umm, they do something I am sure...whatever, screw it. I'll pick that fifth elementalist and we'll head out..."

Now, it is correct that when you get to later mission you will get more invites as a mesmer and it is for a few reasons. 1) There are fewer people and groups want anyone and everyone so that they can set out with a full group 2) They have had some experience in a group with mesmers that did just fine 3) They have fought against some of the high lvl mesmer mobs and been totally and completely worked over by them

@OP, you should have been a little less rude to Legolas Ravenwood. Legolas' first point was telling everyone to back off you and your FoW armor It seems that a few people should read properly before judging or questioning others.

and Legolas' second point answered the exact question you asked in your first post. My point is that every class is looked over, but the Mesmer is looked over without knowledge. People don't take time to remember what the Hexes do...

[Dean Harper]

The problem with most people in this game is that they dont take the time to learn what each profession is about, especially the mesmer. All ppl want to see is ppl killing enemies, and the mesmer isnt about that. The mesmer is about waiting on the sidelines until it is most beneficial to strike, at which point, they have an incredible impact on the enemy. Whether it be loss of enery, loss of health, or hexing the enemy so they cant do something. Many people take these powerful attributes for granted, since they dont understand them, and therefore dont invite mesmers to their party. Of course, most of the time, only one mesmer is needed in a group. However, the mesmer dominates in pvp, and really isnt meant for pve, though it can be done. Overall, anyone who does not like the mesmer, will not invite them into a group becasue they are "a stupid profession that cant do anything," or just doesnt know what they do and why they do it is a noob, and needs to learn this, or they will be ridiculed in the later game and in pvp.

[Mared Text]

Or maybe everyone knows what mesmers can do and they realize that having another warrior, elementalist, monk, or necro is better. I'm sure it makes you guys feel all warm and fuzzy to claim that people don't want you in their pve group because they don't know what the memser is capable of, but the fact is that even after people learn what the mesmer can do they still don't want you in their group.

For the most part mesmers are all about disrupting and disabling the enemy, if there was actually an enemy in pve that was so tough that it couldn't be defeated through straight up brute force I'm sure that mesmers would serve a roll, however, since pve has no enemy of this kind there is really no need for the mesmer at all when you can just add more brute force to your group.

PvP is an entirely different story for mesmers.

[Cirian]

For the most part mesmers are all about disrupting and disabling the enemy, if there was actually an enemy in pve that was so tough that it couldn't be defeated through straight up brute force I'm sure that mesmers would serve a roll, however, since pve has no enemy of this kind there is really no need for the mesmer at all when you can just add more brute force to your group.
Anet clones Wila the Unpleasant and scatters her throughout Nightfall...

Fixed. :p

I find the group takes less damage with a good mesmer around, but then they can dish some AoE damage with Shatter Hex and Cry of Frustration too - not to mention the hex cleaning they do.

I've only ever had good experiences playing the mesmer in PvE and if people don't take them, well... their loss. Maybe mesmers need flashier spell effects :p Hmm... come to think of it, Shatter Hex's effect is rather underwhelming considering it's a 126 damage "nearby foes" sized blastwave that bypasses armour... how about something like this?

http://astrial.orcon.net.nz/tn_pbaoe2.jpg

Boom! :D One thing I loved about Dark Age of Camelot (where that screenie comes from) was that the spell effects looked as good as the damage numbers :p I miss that with mesmer magic :(

[jesh]

Yeah, I think that would land mesmers some more PuG invites. :D
Funny I've made that suggestion before, but never found a picture like that. =P

[Darcy]

Occasionally my mes will get invited into a PUG and I will accept because I have nothing better to do at the time. I love it when the mission/quest is finished and the group starts commenting something similar to "I don't know why people say that is a hard mission/quest."

[Xandreus]

i think mesmers are really underrated, they can shutdown most different enemies one way or another and can help things move along a lot faster. I didn't find it too hard taking my mesmer through factions pve, and people seemed to be pleased of what it was able to do. I just hope that more people can become more receptive to it.
the problem is most parties like a similar setup with 2 warriors and 2 monks and specific things like nukers and SS's, which dusnt leave much room for mesmers. But if u can find a slot for one your mission/run/quest will be a lot easier, IF the mesmer knows what to do.

[Aleks]

Actualy, all GW: P missions can be hencied ;) (i have not finished GW:F yet, so i cant tell you if all of them can be hencied, but the ones up to the joining of a faction are easy to do with your loyal NPC friends).

People dont pic mesmers, because they dont know what they do, and when they do something, its not as noticable as when a warrior smacks someone with a big hammer, or a meteor hits the target.

Also, when compairing mesmers to necros:
if you were an idiot, would you
A: Pick the person who can make the enemy healthbar purple, and have some purple sparkle around you
or
B: pick the person who can make the enemy healthbar purple, and have a vast undead army
?

Congrats, you have shown your unintelligible ignorance. I don't think I even need to say anything.

Purple health bar...? Dude..... I can tell you are new to the game. I suggest you get aquainted with the mesmer profession before deciding to post. Remember, if you don't know something for sure, you should always look it up first!

I'll show you the ropes. I am generally very nice towards people who just bought guild wars.

[Paperfly]

Congrats, you have shown your unintelligible ignorance. I don't think I even need to say anything.
Nope, he's just conclusively proven that his use of light irony is too sophisticated for you.

And even if you weren't wrong (and you were, oh so very wrong), that statement would've been unnecessary.

[Dragannia]

Congrats, you have shown your unintelligible ignorance. I don't think I even need to say anything.

Purple health bar...? Dude..... I can tell you are new to the game. I suggest you get aquainted with the mesmer profession before deciding to post. Remember, if you don't know something for sure, you should always look it up first!

I'll show you the ropes. I am generally very nice towards people who just bought guild wars.
Uhm. Purple Health bar...degen? You know, the Illusion line and all.

[Darcy]

@OP

Newer players don't look for mesmers because, as Cirian said, they don't have flashy spell effects. They would rather recruit a class that is obviously doing something. This is exacerbated by even a low-level mesmer with only basic skills being able to hench all that area's quests, so they don't hang around for long.

As you go through the game and encounter players who have been exposed to mesmer foes and PvP, you find invites coming very quickly.

The bad-mouthing of mesmers has two main causes: 1) player tried a mesmer character and couldn't learn to play it and 2) player got wiped out by a mesmer.

[the_jos]

There is one reason for the dislike of mesmers that I have not read about (could be that I have missed that one).
Mesmers shine when it comes to shutting down or heavy damaging a single target.
And GW mobs tend to stick together, so many people want to have AoE damage.
Of cource, there's E-surge and the various scatters, but that's not where mesmers are at their best.

The only time I've been asked to join a team was on the Aborstone mission Masters attempt, they wanted Ineptitude (and I added Epidemic to make them even more happy) to shut down the Oni.

And, you really need to know your skills with mesmer, more than other characters.
For example, on my mesmer I have only Vizunah Square and Raisu Palace open for masters. My Monk, Ne and R where able to get masters on these missions quite easily, but I still have to figure out the best way to play those missions with my mesmer.
I know it's team effort, but I'm still not happy with the domination or illusions builds I've used up to now.

[JoeKnowMo]

AoE dmg works best in PvE in the majority of situations, especially in disorganized pugs. For example, Barrage > Punishing shot in most of PvE. 'Nuff said.

I think the ignorance about the Mesmer class gets overstated. I think ignorance is part of the reason for the discrimination, but many players who are aware of what the Mes can do will still pick another profession just based on damage output. Also, as Jos said above, the Mesmer builds need to be situational, and I can't tell how skilled players are until we've started the mission. I know what an SS, or MM, or tank, or nuker, or boon prot, etc. is running. Do I know what the mes is running? Even if they say "E-surge mes" or "Ineptitude mes" or "Shutdown Mes" that really doesn't tell me much about the rest of their bar.

[Gururian]

Do I know what the mes is running? Even if they say "E-surge mes" or "Ineptitude mes" or "Shutdown Mes" that really doesn't tell me much about the rest of their bar.

Well, now you can thank A-Net for adding that little control-click on the skill bar to call your build. All you need to do is ask. On the topic.. I made a mesmer 8 days ago, second one since my first char(that was a mesmer), and I've had no trouble whatsoever finding groups for absolutely anything in Tyria almost completing every mission and bonus. IMO.. Mesmers are dominate in PvP and one of the best in PvE. Depending on the person of course.. My advice, for the people new to mesmers. Look at your skills accordingly before choosing your build if you want to be the most effective.