Why are mesmar so god in pve again?

[Song Rui]

i noe they god for pvp for support or intrupting etc. but i see all theis ppl ingame and here saying mesmer is good for pve. whai???? you hav eles/necros for dmg,war for tankig,and monks for healing.rits and ranger can support, while assasain suck. can someone tell m3 why mesmar so good in pve?

[Song Rui]

onli thing i see dat good iz shatter hax. nice dmg spike when the war iz taknings

[Opeth]

what's a mesmar ?

[joncoish]

Probably for the same reasons they're so good in pvp, they can shut you down. Mesmers can play pretty much any type of build, damage, degen, interrupt, etc, etc, they're just a bit difficult to get a grasp on.

Also, assassins do not suck. The class rules if played right. I'm having an easier time henching the Factions missions with my assassin then I've had with any other class of mine.

[Song Rui]

Probably for the same reasons they're so good in pvp, they can shut you down. Mesmers can play pretty much any type of build, damage, degen, interrupt, etc, etc, they're just a bit difficult to get a grasp on.

Also, assassins do not suck. The class rules if played right. I'm having an easier time henching the Factions missions with my assassin then I've had with any other class of mine.

but mesmar can onli shut down ONE THING. eles/necro can do a load of aoe dmg.

i just dont see whai.

[Mesmer in Need]

ok i play a mesmer, bot in pvp and pve. i love mine. a mesmer can play almost any role, basted opon not only the mesmer skills, but also the secondary skills. my current build is a fast cast nuker- one of the most destructive builds in pve. i have also played degen, interrupt and e-denial, and they all work. u say that a mesmer can ony shut down one person at a time. well- thats why mesmers in pvp target monks. shutdown the monk, u shut down the entire team. most pvp teams rely on their monks alot. have 2 oppsoing monks? bring two mesmers. add degen + backfire + shatter/drain enchantment +some damage or interrupt skills, you will take down a monk pretty quickly. in pve, you can play rolls like my nuker, degen, fc healer, etc, etc.

[shawatsies]

what kind of spelling is this crap? Please learn how to correctly use the english language and use spell check

[Sol_Vie]

Lies. Mesmers can shut down multiple targets in PvE. My mesmer can usually task about 3-4 of anything. Backfire, Empathy, Conjure Phantasm + Clumsiness, etc etc...

[Hella Good]

mesmar so goo in pve cous dei rock the boat like dat.

I hope this gets the message across.

[luxor9]

i noe they god for pvp for support or intrupting etc. but i see all theis ppl ingame and here saying mesmer is good for pve. whai???? you hav eles/necros for dmg,war for tankig,and monks for healing.rits and ranger can support, while assasain suck. can someone tell m3 why mesmar so good in pve?

your opinions so far are bordering on insanity. I'll admit an assassin would probably suck if you made one but in general assassins only suck if the person playing them sucks. they are deadly damage dealers who can escape from any fight. Why are mesmers so good in pve? who said that? sure they can be good like all the other charcters. They can interupt or punish the opposition for the damage they attempt. They are great boss killers, and generally stay out of the way enough not to be a burden on your monks. They aren't pve gods and you rarely see GLF mesmers!! but they are effective in what they do.

[Excal]

When I read your post I begun crying on the inside :(

[Mesmer in Need]

They aren't pve gods and you rarely see GLF mesmers!! but they are effective in what they do.
actually... in thk i saw a guy spamming "glf a primary mesmer"
i joined and we beat it.

[Yukito Kunisaki]

My mesmer is my only PvP slot but in PvE, I've seen some nasty AoE hex mesmers that allow a party to survive some obscene odds.

Virulence Mesmers [with the new Factions update skills] can really take mobs to hell with their new way of playing...

Empathy, Backfire, and other 'punish' skills can easily slam 3-5 foes before the mesmer has to wait to regen energy [which is bad if he doesn't have any inspiration skills, wtf? lol]

My mesmer I play in RA and CA just for kicks and well, let's just say he gets cussed out a lot...

Good mesmers can break an enemy pc team or pve team, depends on the player...

[Ulivious The Reaper]

mesmers are pretty good, people don't give them enough leiniency (i butchered that word) when it comes to builds because its not AOE enough, however, a good mesmer can equal the damage output of a Ele any day


Also, one of the rules in this forum is DON'T butcher the english language

[Amok Affinity]

what the hell? isn't this (OP) sort of crap moderator-worthy? it's sincerely disgraceful...

[lightblade]

Why am I hearing people talking about this suck that suck?

No prof suck in PvE or PvP....if you think they suck...thats because you suck too much to play it right...

[Song Rui]

but aoe is all that matters in pve.

[Terra Xin]

but aoe is all that matters in pve.


yeah... AoE... that's why elementalists are sitting in their forum complaining about how little damage they do...

[Song Rui]

wtf? eles do decent damage in pve already. what are these people talking about?

[lightblade]

Really, PuG usually don't specifically "lf mesmer". But they'll invite mesmer when they see one is looking for group.

Shatter Hex is one of the highest damaging spell in the game. Only second to Balthazar's Aura, which...recharges slower than Shatter Hex and cost more energy.

Empathy do 30 dmg at rank 15. You can use arcane echo and hex 4 foes at once. That's 120 dmg per second.

Illusion also does good damage. Conjure Phantasm causes -5 degen. That's 10 (dmg/sec) * 14 seconds = 140 damage.

[Song Rui]

But an ele or a necro is more effective. SS deals more damage than empathy, is aoe and has quick recharge too.

[Hella Good]

As the wise man said "you can bring a horse to the water but you cant make it drink."

[Effigy]

The major difference between ele and mesmer damage is resistance. Eles' nukes do pitiful damage against enemies with high level/armor, while mesmers' spells always deal the listed damage. So that Meteor Shower that says it's going to be doing 90+ may only end up dealing ~30dmg against a high level mob, whereas Backfire, Empathy, Clumsiness, etc will all be delivering as expected. The same goes for Spiteful Spirit, but you can certainly use it on a mesmer; Fast Casting cuts that 2 sec cast down considerably, same with Meteor Shower, Res Chant, etc. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

[Mesmer in Need]

fcing really helps with ALOT of skills. anyone remember rezmers? 16 fc and all rez skills. useless but atleast no one would stay dead 4 long..
smae goes with nuking, spamming, etc etc.

[Mindflash]

I play a lot of professions and I can say that a SS necro is not better than a mesmer. The SS necro shines when there is a lot of melee enemies in PVE, you can certainly spam 4 SS's in a mob and they will pretty much destroy the mob. But that's it, it won't work very good against casters or enemies that aren't really close to each other. And the necro won't be able to survive well if he get's targeted.

The mesmer is more independent and can bring skills to deal with any situation. He won't destroy a melee mob like the SS necro, but he can shutdown and quickly kill casters, can disable and do AoE damage to melee mobs (Energy Surge, Shatter Hex), and at the same time he is helping the team by removing a hex and reducing the damage that the enemy can do to his team.

All professions are made to complete each other, if there was a better profession like Necros and Eles we would only see 3 necros/3 eles/2 monks in pve parties. There is always a good use to every profession and each mission or area are particularly more interesting to certain professions.

[Claudia Starlight]

and you're hoping that ANet will read this and decide to delete the mesmars?

[Avarre]

I've been called overpowered before. It's been a long road since we were laughed at...

[Song Rui]

and you're hoping that ANet will read this and decide to delete the mesmars?


....If you'd read the thread, you'd realize your.............................

[Song Rui]

I've been called overpowered before. It's been a long road since we were laughed at...

Then they were either ignorant, or delusional. What are mesmers going to do for massive damage? Oh. they'll shut down ONE enemy.

[Scourgey]

Shatter hex, backfire, cry, enchantment removal.

Mesmers aren't that powerful in PvE apart from these skills. I play mesmer a lot and I freely admit that other classes excel in damage and their roles.

In a 3 man party, I would never take a mesmer primary over say a SS necro or ele for damage.

However that said, if there are small number of powerful foes, mesmers are great, e.g. against titans they are great.

[Song Rui]

Shatter hex, backfire, cry, enchantment removal.

Mesmers aren't that powerful in PvE apart from these skills. I play mesmer a lot and I freely admit that other classes excel in damage and their roles.

In a 3 man party, I would never take a mesmer primary over say a SS necro or ele for damage.

However that said, if there are small number of powerful foes, mesmers are great, e.g. against titans they are great.

Finally. Someone who knows what they're talking about.

[Dragannia]

Then they were either ignorant, or delusional. What are mesmers going to do for massive damage? Oh. they'll shut down ONE enemy.
Mantra of Recovery. Backfire. Empathy. Spam, spam, spam, while interrupting with Power Drain. That's multiple targets not exactly shutdown, but taking massive damage. In the case of casters, sometimes a single Backfire will kill it outright as enemy AIs cast through it. A good interrupt Mesmer can also skim through enemy targets looking for key interrupts/targets of opportunity. Mesmers also keep your team clean with things like Shatter Hex, dealing massive damage to surrounding enemies. Shutdown, in PvE, means nothing. So don't bother talking about it. Pure Mesmers in PvE are about interrupts and caster/melee punishment.

[Song Rui]

Mantra of Recovery. Backfire. Empathy. Spam, spam, spam, while interrupting with Power Drain. That's multiple targets not exactly shutdown, but taking massive damage. In the case of casters, sometimes a single Backfire will kill it outright as enemy AIs cast through it. A good interrupt Mesmer can also skim through enemy targets looking for key interrupts/targets of opportunity. Mesmers also keep your team clean with things like Shatter Hex, dealing massive damage to surrounding enemies. Shutdown, in PvE, means nothing. So don't bother talking about it. Pure Mesmers in PvE are about interrupts and caster/melee punishment.

AI doesn't always cast through backfire. Infact, quite rarely.

[Akuma]

It's Song Rui, you can't possibly take him seriously.

GameFAQs boards come into mind here....

[Avarre]

Then they were either ignorant, or delusional. What are mesmers going to do for massive damage? Oh. they'll shut down ONE enemy.

I shudder to think what kind of mesmers you've played with if they only shut down one enemy.

You also miss the fact of all the other things mesmers can do... I can drok run, solo monk Thunderhead, farm, deal powerful damage in most zones, and the list goes on...

Anyways, I don't really feel like pulling out the data again.. but in a heavy hex endgame area (urgoz etc), echo/glyph shatter hex has more damage potential than meteor shower, dealt faster (factoring in things like recharge time). Meteor shower hits later with knockdowns, which is why mesmers and eles are best used together rather than having many of only one.

There are quite a few mobs that DO cast through backfire on occasion, and every time they do you've dealt roughly the damage of two ele fireballs - on top of discouraging AI casts, acting as pseudo-shutdown.

[Song Rui]

Meteor Shower is scrub.

And congrats on being able to solo all those places...proof post haste.

mon i n33d teh info

[Avarre]

I didn't actually mention any soloing (defining as 1-person exploration and killing). Your ability to read is matched only by your ability to spell.

You've had plenty of info, you just pointedly disadknowledge it.

Interrupts
Prevent and deal damage
Domination spells
Huge potential dps, armor ignoring
Semi-shutdown of backfire
Heavy caster damage
Hex removal
Quick hex removal for damage/energy

[xDusT II]

Mesmer = Indirect Damage
Indirect Damage = Takes some THOUGHT to be effective.

Emptahy vs SS

SS is an elite. Nuff said.


My Mesmer is Anti-everything and I love it. You need to KNOW how to play a mesmer to be a good msmer. And the first thing to know about mesmers in PVE is that all those simple damage only skills generally blow (Energy burn)

WW is a great spam skill that if combined with say, arcane conundrum, can REALLY rack up insane damage.

Fragility spikes with Virulence cause pain.

Shatter Hex, Shatter Delusions, all sweet.

LTP or Go Home Please.

[Song Rui]

I didn't actually mention any soloing (defining as 1-person exploration and killing). Your ability to read is matched only by your ability to spell.


Oh yeah go and make personal attacks. My spelling is fine. I did that earlier in the topic on purpose to test if people would argue the point or do what you just did. hah.

[Claudia Starlight]

And what is your purpose of starting this thread?
To make people angry by thinking they're playing a useless class?

Mesmers help to kill things faster, they're damage amplifiers in PvE.
Toss Backfire on a stupid healer mob and watch him die, or cast empathy on a war, or echo-energy surge to *nuke* the hell out of a group, and also they DEGEN the crap out of stuff

Go to Nahpui Quarters (mission) and take out Hai Ji (mesmer boss) first and see if it's easier than doing it the other way around

SS is an elite, Empathy is a normal skill. Go figure.


Again, i question your rationale on making this topic. Using retarded spelling while making poorly justified opinions just does not make any sense to me.

[Song Rui]

flame more.

I never said Mesmers were useless. I said they were useless in pve. And I've already been over empathy. What elite would you use over SS anyway?

Surge is good but the recharge is bad when Rodgorts invocation will do alot more + burning.

[Claudia Starlight]

...Energy surge? haha
Oh and that's one good thing about mesmer i guess, you don't have to rely on an elite to define your build... which could also mean that mesmer elites are no better than normal skills, but that really doesn't bother me

Anyway, you seem to imply that mesmers ARE useless, when they are NOT.
Every class has its use in different ways, that's why ANet made them anyway, or it's just a big waste of time and money and the game would be better off having only 2 or 3 classes.

Also, it's important to take into account the skill of the person who plays the mesmer. A monk would be considered *useless* if he only uses Orison of Healing and Vengeance to heal his often dead allies, no?

And surge is CHAOS based and will do solid 80 or 90 damage when used in the beginning of an encounter.

Rodgorts is flame based, try casting Rodgort on fiery enemies without the aid Winter.

[Effigy]

flame more.

I never said Mesmers were useless. I said they were useless in pve. And I've already been over empathy. What elite would you use over SS anyway?

Surge is good but the recharge is bad when Rodgorts invocation will do alot more + burning.

Funny how you choose to ignore any point that you can't argue with. I've already explained that mesmer skills do armor ignoring damage, which is more than I can say for Rodgort's. Against high level mobs, the AoE from RI will be dealing laughable damage and the 3 sec burning only amounts to 21 damage. Not to mention the 25e cost.

Give it up. You don't have a valid argument; you just keep making the same point over and over without any logical justification and you ignore feedback from anyone who has half a clue. You might want to review the following term:

trolling - n. 2. Posting derogatory messages about sensitive subjects on newsgroups and chat rooms to bait users into responding.

[LightningHell]

I will slap anyone who says they will bring an Elementalist over a Mesmer for damage.

And I'm saying this as an Elly prime.

[lightblade]

Backfire - AI does cast through Backfire...and very often...if you know which profession AI cast through Backfire a lot. Mesmer and Necromancers usually cast faster and a lot more than Monk and Elementists, thus will trigger Backfire a lot.

Empathy - it's a non-elite skill that can pretty much do damage to all.

And shutdown...appearantly OP never played with a good mesmer, that can shutdown 2 or even 3 enemies.

[Avarre]

Oh yeah go and make personal attacks. My spelling is fine. I did that earlier in the topic on purpose to test if people would argue the point or do what you just did. hah.

Essentially, in that case, you're trolling. My commendations, but it doesn't make you right.

A myriad of elites for PvE is better than surge. Unfortunately, to see the reasoning for this you would have had to read other parts of the forum that are buried after long debates with people that seem to think taking on the entire forum makes them smarter.

Ineptitude, Energy Drain, Expel Hexes, Mantras of Recall and Recovery are all examples of these.

[yesitsrob]

To be quite honest, mesmers aren't that great in pve.... there's very little they can do in pve that another class cannot do simply by exploiting the terrible AI. eg. nuking. I don't need to shut down mobs with empathy and clumsiness when I could just shit a meteor shower on them which they all fail to move out of.

I like having a mesmer around to deal with bosses. Watrel's Spam, and shutting a boss down actually means something

[Hollerith]

Ineptitude+Clumsiness can probably deal more damage than SS when the MS comes out. There are several different ways mesmers can spread Deep Wound. Degen can be spread to foes even easier (can have 3 foes at -8 before the first meteor hits).

Those are just offensive guidelines. Defensively, there's the easily spreadable blind, the snoozefest that Powerblock causes pve casters, along with the normal caster interrupts/screws.

At any rate, pve with henchies goes a lot smoother on my mesmer. I get far more masters than on my ele.

edit re: the ele: their damage sucks against anything other than cloth casters in pve.

[the_jos]

A good mesmer can make killing the enemies easier.

Shutting down the monk (and remove Mark of Protection while the others keep attacking the enemy and wonder why it's health is going up....).

Degen all enemies that are not taking direct damage from nukers/tank.

Protect the backline with blinding skills (Ineptitude / epidemic)

Making life easier for tank (Sympathetic/Ancestor's visage on tank and melee enemies are shut down very fast). Also the blinding here.

Shutting down bosses or kill them faster.

All can be done by other characters (interrupt Ranger, curses /death (non-mm) Necro).
Interrupt Rangers are somewhat slower and cannot stop a cast like shame/guilt and Necro's have to take a somewhat less favored build, but it's possible.

I think the mesmer shines when he/she knows the enemies' skills and their counters.
And it's hard to constantly think about the right skills, while you can do most of PvE with a default set of skills on other characters.
My SS, boon-prot, Rit Lord, Barrager all have the same basic builds about 90% of the time. The only chars on which I keep shifting skills are my Sin and Me.
Perhaps the reason many people 'hate' Sin and Me is because you have to think about the build and most GW players seem to ignore that.

I once had a W, but found out I could finish the game faster and with less thinking than any other char (it was my 3th or 4th char).
No fun, so delete.

[Song Rui]

Ineptitude+Clumsiness can probably deal more damage than SS when the MS comes out. There are several different ways mesmers can spread Deep Wound. Degen can be spread to foes even easier (can have 3 foes at -8 before the first meteor hits).

Those are just offensive guidelines. Defensively, there's the easily spreadable blind, the snoozefest that Powerblock causes pve casters, along with the normal caster interrupts/screws.

At any rate, pve with henchies goes a lot smoother on my mesmer. I get far more masters than on my ele.

edit re: the ele: their damage sucks against anything other than cloth casters in pve.

and then have to wait forever for them to recharge.

What are you guys on about? RI does tonne of damage + degen no matter wut.

[TeeGee]

Mesmer makes enemies easier to kill...

Mesmer makes enemies deal much less damage to you...

Mesmer does a lot of armor ignoring damage...

Mesmer removes hexes from you...

Mesmer makes good PvE character...

[Claudia Starlight]

and then have to wait forever for them to recharge.

What are you guys on about? RI does tonne of damage + degen no matter wut.

No matter what what? It's fire elemental and only burns the enemy for like 3 seconds

-Conjure Nightmare recharges for 5 secs.. sure it's single target but it's -8 degen for 15 seconds with max Illusion
-Enemy spellcasters cast away while Backfired


Have you tried doing Nahpui and beating the mesmer boss last yet?

By the way, you still didn't state your purpose of making this thread, and you did not consider opinions that are valid.
A good critic acknowledges valid arguments instead of avoiding them.

EDIT: That is, if you made this thread for criticizing purposes.

[NinjaKai]

Finally. Someone who knows what they're talking about. Why did you even bother making this thread? You aren't even taking in the feedback you've been given. Your just dismissing everything thats been posted. Stop wasting peoples time if you can't be bothered to listen what you asked for.

[Icepic]

Song Rui, until about a month ago I also looked at the mesmer as usless in PvE. In my case it was a misconception that I based on nothing more than my unfamiliarity with them. I finally tried a mesmer and found it not only a lot more fun to play than I had expected, but I was able to move farther through the game faster than I did with my other chars (even when I was henching it). If you havn't already tried playing one give it a try. Maybe you will be pleasantly suprised like I was. As for the origional question, I think what makes the mesmer so good in PvE is the ability to fill so many rolls based on your needs for that zone/mission or group at the time.

[NinjaKai]

I think what makes the mesmer so good in PvE is the ability to fill so many rolls based on your needs for that zone/mission or group at the time. As the saying goes knowledge is power. If you have knowledge of the monsters in the area your enterting, attack types, etc. Like a good mesmer, i'm not you need to be smart to be a mesmer. But there is a definitive level of difference in performance depending on ones knowledge of the game.

[capblueberry]

i personally consider them a better damage dealer then an ele just cuz of the aoe that ele's rely on

[Lady Lozza]

You know somewhere around here is hidden a skill called mantra of flame, I'm sure also find one called mantra of flame-bait too if we looked hard enough.

[LightningHell]

and then have to wait forever for them to recharge.

What are you guys on about? RI does tonne of damage + degen no matter wut.

Clumsiness has 10 recharge.
Ineptitude has 20 recharge.

In contrast...

Meteor Shower has 60 recharge.

[Song Rui]

Clumsiness has 10 recharge.
Ineptitude has 20 recharge.

In contrast...

Meteor Shower has 60 recharge.

except that ms isnt your main damage dealer. RI is. You also have fireball, meteor and immolate....among others. They are high damaging, and much more dangerous than ineptitude and clumsiness.

Anyway.

backfire, ai dont always cast through it.

energy surge = pitiful damage on a long recharge. RI does a tonne more.

[SnipiousMax]

wtf? eles do decent damage in pve already. what are these people talking about?

I stopped reading at this point.

Since a Warrior can outdamage an Ele blindfolded, with an arm and a pinky toe tied behind their back, you've destroyed your credibilty by implying that they are 'teh damage dealers of choice'. You've obviously ignored much of what has been said in the forums of late, much less this thread. Look at something through the eyes of someone that thinks the only things a party needs is a warrior with 7 defensive skills and mending, a Elementalist with Echo and Meteor Shower, and a monk with heal breeze... and you'll miss alot of what Mesmers have to offer. Unfortunate for you that you will never experience the most of what this game has to offer, and it's pointless to argue this further, as you've made it clear you'll not have any intrest in listening to anyone.

[Song Rui]

I stopped reading at this point.

Since a Warrior can outdamage an Ele blindfolded, with an arm and a pinky toe tied behind their back, you've destroyed your credibilty by implying that they are 'teh damage dealers of choice'. You've obviously ignored much of what has been said in the forums of late, much less this thread. Look at something through the eyes of someone that thinks the only things a party needs is a warrior with 7 defensive skills and mending, a Elementalist with Echo and Meteor Shower, and a monk with heal breeze... and you'll miss alot of what Mesmers have to offer. Unfortunate for you that you will never experience the most of what this game has to offer, and it's pointless to argue this further, as you've made it clear you'll not have any intrest in listening to anyone.

tch. KEYWORD PVE. You think I'm some sorta scrub huh? An ele will easily outdamage a warrior in pve.

[Tsunami Rain]

closed.