New Mesmer Skills!!

[Terra Xin]

Here are the new Mesmer skills. Their skill descriptions wont be confirmed until tomorrow, but until then, lets rant on about how cool these names are shall we^^?

General thread about this topic can be found here (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1995693)

--Domination Magic--

Mystic Inversion - 15e 2c 30r
Elite Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe casts Enchantments 100% slower. When this Hex ends, that foe takes 15...75 damage if not under the effects of an Enchantment Spell.

Negative Karma - 15e 1c 10r
Elite Spell. Remove a Hex from target ally. If a Hex is removed in this way, foes near that ally take 30...102 damage and lose one Enchantment.

Power Flux - 10e 1/4c 15r
Elite Hex Spell. If target foe is casting a spell, that Spell is interrupted and for 4...9 seconds, that foe has -2 Energy degeneration.

Thievery - 10e 1c 20r
Elite Spell. For 10...30 seconds, one random non-Spell is disabled for target foe, and Thievery is replaced by that Skill

Blacklash - 25e 1c 20r
Spell. Remove one Enchantment from target foe. All of that foe's party members also lose that same enchantment

Visions of Regret 10e 2c 20r
Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17 seconds, target foe takes 30...102 damage whenever that foe uses an adrenal skill.

Humble 10e 2c 15r
Hex Spell. For 5...17 seconds, the next time target foe uses an elite Skill, that foe loses 4...9 energy

Blame 10e 2c 20r
Hex Spell. For 4...9 seconds, the next time target foe casts a Spell that targets a foe, the spell fails and all nearby allies take 15...63 damage

Unnatural Pain 10e 1c 30r
Spell. Target foe takes 10...82 damage, and all nearby foes take 15...63 damage. This skill recharges instantly if it hits a spirit.

Wastrel's Demise 5e 1/4c 8r
Spell. Target foe takes 5...25 damage. If that foe is not casting a Spell, that foe takes an additional 3...6 damage for each equipped Spell.

--Fast Casting-- (NB: I couldn't get rank 12 stats for this attribute class because I transcribed using a Rt/Me. The information will give rank 0 stats instead)

Tinker - 10e 1c 30r
Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5... seconds, whenever you use a Signet, you gain 1... Energy

Chaotic Guidance - 10e 1c 20r
Enchantment Spell. For 5... seconds, whenever a Spell you cast is interrupted, that Spell is instantly recharged.

Simplify - Fast Casting - 10e 1c 20r
Enchantment Spell. For 5... seconds, all of your Signets activate 20...% faster.

Mantra of Impression - Fast Casting - 10e 20r
Stance. For 5... seconds, the next Signet you activate recharges 20...% faster.

--Illusion Magic--

Air of Disenchantment 10e, 1c, 20r
Elite Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe and all adjacent foes cast Enchantments 10...82% slower. When Air of Disenchantment ends, it removes one Enchantment from each affected foe.

Frustration - 10e 1c 15r
Hex Spell. For 5...17 seconds, target foe casts Spells 50% slower and takes 5...41 damage whenever interrupted while casting a Spell.

Signet of Uncouth - 1/4c 15r
Signet. If target foe is attacking, that foe is interrupted and takes 5...41 damage.

--Inspiration Magic--

Extend Condition - 5e 1/4c 20r
Elite Spell. All Conditions on target foe last 5...81% longer (Maximum 30 seconds)

Tease - 10e, 3/4c, 15r
Elite Hex Spell. For 20 seconds, Skills used by target touched foe take 20...84% longer to recharge. This skill ends if that foe hits you.

Discharge Enchantment - (Forgot to write the stats)
Spell. Remove one Enchantment from target foe. If that foe is Hexed, this Skill recharges 20...44% faster.

Drain Delisions - 5e 1/4c 10r
Spell. Remove one Mesmer Hex from target foe. If a Hex was removed in this way, that foe loses 1...4 energy and you gain 2 energy for each point lost.

Ether Phantom - 5e 1c 10r
Hex Spell. For 10 seconds, target foe has -1 Energy degeneration. If this hex is removed prematurely, that foe loses 1...4 Energy

--No Attribute--

Signet of Illusions - 2c 5r (oh my god...power anyone?)
Elite Signet. Your next Spell uses your Illusion attribute instead of its normal attribute.

Immune Deficiency - 5e 1c 10r
Spell. All Conditions on foes in the area of the target foe are transferred to that foe.

Web of Disruption - 10e 1/4c 15r
Hex Spell. Interrupt target foe. For 10 seconds, target foe is hexed with Web of Disruption. When this hex ends, that foe is interrupted again.

Stats:
3 Illusion Skills
10 Domination Skills
5 Inspiration Skills
3 No Attribute Skills
4 Fast Casting Skills

[Tartagan]

Discharge Enchantment (sounds like another Inspired Enchantment :P)


Or a shatter enchant per chance ?

[HolyHawk]

I'm really looking forward to the new mesmer skills; already saved the skill points to get them all as soon as nightfall is oficially released. Gonna unlock them in the preview event. Blame and Frustration sound real nice.

[Avarre]

Sound interesting, but lets wait to see the effects :)

[Dragannia]

Backlash= Backfire? Maybe...though 2 Backfires will absolutely rip through PvE casters (and to a lesser extent, idiots in RA).

Names which are AWESOME:

Mystic Inversion
Negative Karma
Immune Deficiency

BTW, to the OP, "Trickery" doesn't exist. I think you mean the Elite skill "Thievery."

[Hella Good]

And it's Backlash not Blacklash. Blacklash doesnt make sense, Backlash does. And I would guess it is something along the lines of BFire, if not a dupe... Altho they wouldnt count the dupe as a new skill, would they? Least they didn't count them as new skills in Factions.

Negative Karma sounds awesome. I hope it's not one of those completely useless filler elites. "I'm using Negative Karma!" just sounds cool. :-) I can tell you that when I saw Extend Condition I was like... oh, no, another Fevered Dreams.. We'll have to wait and see but it sounds pretty stupid.

Thevery sounds interesting. I think with NF they are really trying to make Me very very versatile. Not like Me need any versatility but I'm very happy for this- I would love playing a Thief build using all kinds of Thevery-like skills and Inspires/Reveals and coming up with all these weird spells out of nowhere. Altho to tell you the truth, it seems Sig of Illusions is a better elite to use than something that sounds like an elite form of Arcane Thevery/Larceny.

[Terra Xin]

Well they haven't made duplicates of elite skills yet, but if they had... oh... no

*EDITED* (Blacklash... typo, erm... typo... yes :P)

Oh they didn't count duplicates as part of the new factions skills? Well that would make alot of sence then. If they're saying there's 350 new skills, then there are already 200 new skills across the 8 professions, which would leave 150 for NF characters. But that leaves the nightfall characters with 25 less skills than factions, so theres bound to be some more duplicate skills lurking around each class. (Im guessing, 6 or 7 skills per class are duplicates)

[Hella Good]

Well, there is a lot of things that sound generic. Reversal of Damage (Reversal of Fortune), Wild Frenzy (Frenzy), Backlash (Backfire), etc. But these skills are all part of the 350 count... AND there is no additional skills showing in the character creation screen. What I am saying is they might have decided not to use dupes this time. They did say that it was a Factions specific decision, doesnt mean they will keep on doing it. So... but yea, some of the stuff sounds extremely similar.

I rly cant think of what Backlash could be like... maybe like Backfire for fighter profs? For 10s, every time a character uses an attack skill, that character takes X amount of damage.

[twicky_kid]

I rly cant think of what Backlash could be like... maybe like Backfire for fighter profs? For 10s, every time a character uses an attack skill, that character takes X amount of damage.

Hella I know you play mes often......that's emapthy.

I'm more afraid of having a RoF dupe. 4 RoFs on a 2 monk backline.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Hella Good]

Backfire:

For 10 seconds, whenever target foe casts a spell, that foe takes 35...119 damage.

Empathy:

For 8..18 seconds, whenever target foe attacks, that foe takes 10...26 damage.

Now read again what I wrote:

For 10s, every time a character uses an attack skill, that character takes X amount of damage.

Empathy is damage per attack, I was talkinga bout something that does BFire kind of damage when they use an attack SKILL. Like they take 140 damage for using Eviscerate! *evil* Ah, dream on, dream on...

[Saphatorael]

I'm thinking Backlash and Blame will be Guilt/Shame duplicates, since those are proph only... but we'll see :)

[Terra Xin]

The skill description for blame will really be interesting to see, but I dont think it would be related to guilt or shame, because that's self-afflicted. You blame another person, not youself.

[Terra Xin]

Update!!

[Hella Good]

Update!!
Not yet?

[Dragannia]

Where did you get the information from...?

[Terra Xin]

There was a short period of time when anet accidentally released the skills and the new professions (that's what resulted in the delay). I originally got the information from the priest of balthazar himself, but the skills have since been removed.

[TeeGee]

Hmm seems that wastrels demise can do some pressure damage. 25 + 42(6x7 on typical monk) every 8 seconds is quite good. And you had only 10 dom. If it goes to 7 conditional damage then it's quite damaging spell.

Frustration sounds like new better, non-elite migraine. With some elite interrupt packed it can be devastating I guess.

Ether phantom is also quite nice.

Most other skills seems fun but worthless imho.

[Buzzer]

Ether Phantom: amazing cover hex

Thanks for the list.

[Terra Xin]

Hmm seems that wastrels demise can do some pressure damage. 25 + 42(6x7 on typical monk) every 8 seconds is quite good. And you had only 10 dom. If it goes to 7 conditional damage then it's quite damaging spell.

nah I'm sure I had 12 when I wrote the max values... if only I could check :P

[Avarre]

Mesmergasm.

SO many nice skills..

Mainly liking Power Flux (decent energy pressure in HA), Unnatural Pain (spiritballs!), Frustration (so much better than migrane), Tease (it's like a touch of diversion. Poke them and run).

[TeeGee]

Oh yeah forgot to mention tease - that skill is funny as hell. But as it is hex it will just get removed quickly i fear.

@ Terra Xin:

Anyway 14/16 is more than 12 and that means that conditional damage could get to 7. Having in mind that this is armor-ignoring damage I guess it can deal some pressure on monk.

[Avarre]

Immune Deficiency - 5e 1c 10r
Spell. All Conditions on foes in the area of the target foe are transferred to that foe.

This is a little ambiguous... does this transfer conditions from foes of the target foe, or from foes, to the target foe?

Either way it seems a little useless.

[Terra Xin]

Immune Deficiency - 5e 1c 10r
Spell. All Conditions on foes in the area of the target foe are transferred to that foe.

Yeah, the same thing can be said about blame... but it's what they wrote. For blame I had to double-check it to make sure I wasnt seeing things, it's a relly really really bad skill if the description was true.

[HolyHawk]

It's the inverse of epidemic; suppose you target someone without conditions but there's someone else crippled near him, the conditions will move from everyone else to the one without conditions at first. Now I just want to know if it works like epidemic, transfer as in copying (epidemic copies conditions from a foe to adjacent foes), or transfer as in sending all condition from foes in the area to the targeted foe (induced martyr, in other words).

[TeeGee]

What's so weir about Blame?

It works exactly like Guilt but deals AoE damage instead of energy drain. It's worded almost exactly the same, even name is similiar.

[Terra Xin]

No, because the description says that when a spell fails, all nearby 'allies' take damage. All of the other skills that would have a similar effect either say "all nearby foes" or "All nearby allies of that foe".

It's probrably just a written flaw, but I can't tell unless this skill is tested.

[Dragannia]

Immune Deficiency - 5e 1c 10r
Spell. All Conditions on foes in the area of the target foe are transferred to that foe.

This is a little ambiguous... does this transfer conditions from foes of the target foe, or from foes, to the target foe?

Either way it seems a little useless.
Such a pity, for a skill with such a good name to be so useless.

[TeeGee]

Well I'm 99% sure it's minor wording error. Still I guess that this skill will not see much of use. Guilt is better anyway and it's still underused.

Actually I think most of the new mesmer skills will rarely get used (with exception of the ones I've mentioned before). Too bad - they are all funny.

[yazaga]

Immune deficiency worthless ? What aboout using fevered dreams and that skill that extends conditions and THEN immune deficiency on that guy. Isnt that nasty ?

[Dragannia]

Immune deficiency worthless ? What aboout using fevered dreams and that skill that extends conditions and THEN immune deficiency on that guy. Isnt that nasty ?
...Then that requires you to use Fevered Dreams, the worst Mesmer elite ever. Yes, worse than Keystone signet.

[TeeGee]

Using three skills including elite to just spam conditions (and still worse than normal trapper or necro) is more than worthless.

[Avarre]

...Then that requires you to use Fevered Dreams, the worst Mesmer elite ever. Yes, worse than Keystone signet.

Oh shut up, keystone signet kicks ass and you know it. Mesmer bonders are the way of the future! ;)

[xDusT II]

Ether Phantom + Drain Delusions looks like an awesome combo. You drain 8 for only 2 energy? sign me up.

[Terra Xin]

With the higher number of signets being introduced, hopefully Keystone Signet will be more favourable... But then again, I said that before factions came out, so...

[llsektorll]

drain delusions + ether phantom at 9secs = GG boon prots

[TeeGee]

Erm isn't shatter/drain ench + diversion enough "GG boonprots" already?

Now boonprots often carry hex breaker since cop isn't that good anymore and even cop would make this tactic not worth it.

[LightningHell]

Web of Disruption + Shatter Delusions? It might be nice if you already have PP/SD on your bar. Other condition is if they don't strip it right away...which makes it not very attractive, but what the hell.

[Sab]

Signet of Illusions <3

[Terra Xin]

Signet of Illusions

Thanks to its short recharge, you can pretty much become any Necro/Ele/Monk with that skill

[Avarre]

Now boonprots often carry hex breaker since cop isn't that good anymore and even cop would make this tactic not worth it.

How is cop not that good anymore on a boonprot, who's highest attribute is DF? ;) It still is able to rip away decent hex piles and conditions.

Anyways... I don't really like signet of illusion. Sure, you can cast max ele skills, but there are eles for that and mesmer energy isn't built to keep up with those spells. For necros... stealing something useful on it's own is quite unlikely, and the only real use is tossing back necro hexes. However, then what's the point of your own hexes.. sure, you can balance them, but it seems too gimmicky to me when you could just spec into it yourself.

Only real way I could see running it effectively is by 4-attrib skill splitting, and using Sig of illusions to fire off a high power skill that you put no points in.

[Hella Good]

<accidental double post>

[Hella Good]

The different names throw me off, I should proly edit Wiki.

[TeeGee]

How is cop not that good anymore on a boonprot, who's highest attribute is DF? It still is able to rip away decent hex piles and conditions.


It's not because change to CoP Avarre, but because recharge on Divine Boon. In typical PvP situation when you have your DB removed by mesmer's constantly you don't want to remove it yourself when you finaly get it. That's why CoP is not THAT good now (but still more than viable anyway) and many BP tend to use Hex Breaker instead.

[Siddious]

Visions of Regret 10e 2c 20r
Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17 seconds, target foe takes 30...102 damage whenever that foe uses an adrenal skill.


This is an amazing elite! At 16 domination it lasts for about 21seconds and does around 128dmg! It is the warrior version of backfire!
Signet Of Illusion is another fantastic elite, has a wide variety of uses.
Another skill I really like is Frustration, this skill is way better than migraine.

Overally I think mesmers got a really nice selection of skills and elites. My only concern is why did mesmers not get an anti-shout skill, but necro's and ranger's did....I mean come on...

[TeeGee]

This is an amazing elite! At 16 domination it lasts for about 21seconds and does around 128dmg! It is the warrior version of backfire!


Erm elite version of rather mediocre hex and works only on adrenal skills which are fewer than spells. What to be excited about... It would be good for PvE if non elite.

I'm a bit dissapointed of new mesmer skills. They are funny but worthless - compare it to what monk got...

[Hella Good]

Yes, I tried it. I was very excited as well, and it was worthwhile just for the pure pleasure of a War dying to his/her own spike, BUT it is very situational and TeeGee said, and def not worthwhile for an elite.

[TeeGee]

Hmm after some testing I must say that Wastrel's Demise is nice skill. It usualy deals plain 70 points of armor-ignoring damage every 8 seconds (or more frequent with HSR mods and/or MoR). Nice for pressure, nice for spiking. If I only could find a place for it in my domination build...

Also Tease seems to be very funny and maybe even good. I don't have FB right now to test it? Maybe anyone did and want to share his thoughts?

[HolyHawk]

...Then that requires you to use Fevered Dreams, the worst Mesmer elite ever. Yes, worse than Keystone signet.

We are using fevered dreams instead of tainted flesh in our build (we just inspired tainted from others when necessary). It's just wonderfull for condition pressure, and the range is pretty big. A cripple poisoned shot hitting 4 targets at once is no where to be bad. Keystone has very limited uses, might work now with some of the signet stances.

[HolyHawk]

How is cop not that good anymore on a boonprot, who's highest attribute is DF? ;) It still is able to rip away decent hex piles and conditions.

Anyways... I don't really like signet of illusion. Sure, you can cast max ele skills, but there are eles for that and mesmer energy isn't built to keep up with those spells. For necros... stealing something useful on it's own is quite unlikely, and the only real use is tossing back necro hexes. However, then what's the point of your own hexes.. sure, you can balance them, but it seems too gimmicky to me when you could just spec into it yourself.

Only real way I could see running it effectively is by 4-attrib skill splitting, and using Sig of illusions to fire off a high power skill that you put no points in.

*sarcasm* we can make high level minions now lawl

seriously, the builds will be kinda conditional, but I can see potential in arcane lacerny/thievery builds with that. Again, you can have some of your own attibutes set to 0 (like inspiration), and max power onto domination + illusion. Sure it's linked to illusion, but it's a really powerfull signet. Or you can use meteor shower at full power =P At least some fun with it we will have.

[Effigy]

I won't disagree that the new monk skills outshine the mesmers', but there seems to be some real potential in these new additions.

Sig of Illusion will allow us to use skills linked to primary attributes of our secondary profession at full power, not to mention all the other skills you could use effectively without having to invest any points in the linked attribute. If nothing else, it will allow mesmers to diversify more, even taking skills for 4-5 different attributes without having to spread attribute points thin. Divine Boon anyone?

Tease sounds like a really fun way to piss off anyone that spams skills, like monks. :D Assuming they have the good sense to attack you, you always have Distortion to further rain on their parade. True, it can be removed, but it can also be covered. I wonder how Tease+Diversion will play out...

Wastrel's Demise looks fun too. I can see it working well with things like Diversion, Guilt, Shame, etc.

Backlash sounds like a good answer to Aegis, Orders, Tainted, etc.

Too many options. I can't say I'm disappointed.

[Hella Good]

Backlash aka Mirror of Disenchantment. Yes, this skill will rule supreme vs mass enchantments like Aegis and Orders, and vs stuff like Bonds, Tainted. I expect to see a lot of it in HA.

To be honest tho, most of the new Me elites seem unimpressive. Much like Factions, the good stuff is non-elite; the majority of elites seem to be filler skills. Sig of Illusions is by far the best looking elite. The rest seems way too situational. But will have to test more be4 coming to conclusions.

I like the following skills tho:

Mirror of Disenchantment (as explained above)
Spiritual Pain (my fav new Me skill so far)
Frustration (better than either AC and Migraine impo)
Sig of Clumsiness (nice free spike skill in WarHate builds)
Drain Delusions (it's a nice utility skill)
Ether Phantom (fits well in ED builds)
Web of Disruption (2 inters at the price of 1, universal, and makes skills like Shatter Del and Drain Del much more useful)

[Effigy]

I mostly agree with you on the elites, but really this strikes me as being a good thing. Since 7/8 of your skillbar is non-elite, having powerful skills to fill those slots is awesome. I'd rather have a handful of nice skills than one good elite and a lot of garbage. We already have a number of useful elites, like EDrain, ESurge, Expel Hexes, etc. Sig of Illusion is a nice option as well, and I certainly plan to mess around with it in the future.

[Avarre]

Or you can use meteor shower at full power =P

A horrifying waste of energy for a chacter not built to cast those kind of spells =/


Divine Boon anyone? Except that skill has no real use to mesmers. As we've both mentioned, the only good use I can see right now is being able to bring all attribute skills.

[Apocrypha]

Few of those names are off, they might have changed them now. I've seeing Hypochondriac instead of immune deficiency as well as a few others, Simple Thievery, Price of Pride (humble) to name a few.

Looking very nice, more straight damage in the dom line WW + WD + Mistrust/Guilt and/or Diversion.

[HolyHawk]

Not quite, some eles are copying the iq fire nuker from the game vs evil. I didn't mean that I was bringing meteor shower in my bar, but praying to steal from theirs and nuking the npc rangers =P

[Dragannia]

I just looked at Extend Conditions. It's not a hex, and has, from the description, infinite duration. 30 second Daze, anyone?

[Hella Good]

I did in fact just kill a Fire Ele by stealing her Meteor Shower and SoI casting it on her. Then I borrowed a hex or two from a Me brother. All the while keeping my self alive with SoI + SoDevotion, of course, and spamming random Enchantments like Blood Renewal which a Necro was kind enough to give me through Inspired Enchantment. Was fun. Really fun. Spell Thief is probably the most exciting thing to play... you never know whats gonna be on your skill bar. :-)

[TeeGee]

Spell thief is sure funny. Probably the most crazy build ever. Still I would like to recieve some more practical skills in NF.

So? Anybody have tried Tease yet?

[Avarre]

I did in fact just kill a Fire Ele by stealing her Meteor Shower and SoI casting it on her. Then I borrowed a hex or two from a Me brother. All the while keeping my self alive with SoI + SoDevotion, of course, and spamming random Enchantments like Blood Renewal which a Necro was kind enough to give me through Inspired Enchantment. Was fun. Really fun. Spell Thief is probably the most exciting thing to play... you never know whats gonna be on your skill bar. :-)

The downside being that your effectiveness depends on what you can steal, and you lack the synergy of a constructed build.

[Terra Xin]

Playing a SoI build will be entirely possible, but you're playstyle is going to be the most difficult to master compared to most mesmer builds, it's not a simple matter of predicting interrupts or casting diversion at the right time, you're gonna have to have a third eye to keep track of what goes on around you, so that what you steal is what you expect to steal.

My favourite build uses the 4 quickfire spells Wastrel's Worry, Wastrel's Demse, Drain Delusions, Ether Phantom. Drain + Phantom is a really nice combo to take out a person's energy, very very nice.

Enchanter's Connundrum + Shatter Delusions spike ^^

[Dragannia]

Extend Conditions is bugged.

Cast a condition on someone, then Extend it. IT DOESN'T END! XD

At 3 mins and 50 seconds my friend and I stopped timing the Weakness from Enervating Charge.

[Hella Good]

Oh, Spell Thief isnt really one of the most stable things you can play but I am a huge fan of versatility and having fun. And Spell Thief offers both. Surely, it's rather chaotic, but hey, we are Mesmers, we utilize chaos. :-) It probably only works in RA and AB but that's good enough for me. I wish thevery spells had a bit more synergy- that is they know another thief spell has already stolen a skill and they steal another one, rather than being completely random, but it's funny. Moments like killing that Ele with Meteor Shower or stealing the Blood Renewal of a Necro to heal myself are well worth it. Sometimes you dont worry too much about practicality, you just have some fun. Spell Thief is that- don't hope to always win, but be certain to always have a good time.

[Themis]

I've been busy for the past days and when i'm back to gwg forums... wow !

First, i'd like to thank Terra Xin for great work about copying all skills' descriptions. ;) I did the same thing on another forum, i know it's long and hard work...

Then, here are my impressions about the skills:
- Life bond prots and tainted N are dead and buried. Mirror is just one skill in a team. Boon prots are over, equally.
- There will be a "before" and an "after" Nightfall. I doubt any serious PvP build can be made without any Nightfall skills. They're just too powerfull.
- Ether+DrainDel drain 8 energy every 11secs! And they're not even elite!
- Now it should be easy to make a signet build. A bit too easy, even.

[TeeGee]

Bonds were pretty dead before but Mirror might kick Tainted necroes from meta. Although 25 energy might be too steep for poor messy.

It's obvious that there will be "pre" and "post NF. Even if new skills wouldn't be so powerfull (new monkie skills - ouch.)

Ether + DrainDel is nice but not much better than usual surging (no to mention damage). I guess that Ether will be used more as cover hex - it's awesome at that.

Signet builds will be only gimmicks - same as now. New skills doesn't make them much better anyway.

Still no comments on Tease? I can't believe that noone tried it.

[What if...]

My Observations:

- Something going to have to be done about hypochodria or fragility, for obvious reasons.
- ether phantom + drain delusions is alot of fun
- Wastrel's Demise and Wastrel's Worry work well in tandem with other shut down skills.
- Frustration looks better than migraine

I'm looking forward to using these new skills, they've more obvious uses than the majority of the factions mesmer skillset in my opinion.

[Hella Good]

I don't see myself using any of the new elites tho... that makes me a bit concerned. Sure the non-elites are great but if we pull back the elite rating thread I doubt the NF ones will even get a rating above avg. A lot of stuff that sounds good but is not (Visions of Regret, Hex Eater Vortex, etc.) and a lot of stuff that simply doesn't impress me. Nothing comes any close to PD or Expell Hexes in terms of usablity. Some new chant removers which are ok but to be honest the Necro NF elites that handle enchantments are way better. Even Sig of Illusions which is fun and all isn't really all that usable because of how thevery spells overlap. And Symbols of Inspiration is outright ridiculous. Yea, there is a few regular skills that are amazing but the elites are not worthwhile.

[Dragannia]

Agreed. There are heaps of modifications which CAN make the new elites worthwhile. Making Hex Eater Vortex, for instance, 5 or 10 energy to cast. Simple Thievery should be steal ANY skill, not just non-spells. Visions of Regret...I dunno about that, doesn't seem usable in PvP terms. If it were non-elite it would be okay.

[HolyHawk]

The bright side of Simple Thievery is that it could steal, eviscerates, signets in general, including ress; I'm not sure on elite forms, do they count as skills?

[Hella Good]

I tried several of the elites, they are horrible. Even the ones that actually sound good in theory. Least we get all these wonderful non-elite skills (I can't get over how good some of those are). Here is what I suggest gets changed in these elites to make them worthwhile.

Enchanter's Conundrum:
For 10 seconds, target foe casts Enchantments 100% slower. When this Hex ends, that foe loses all Enchantments.

Power Flux:
If target foe is casting a spell, that spell is interrupted and for 5...10 seconds, that foe has -1..3 Energy degeneration.

Simple Thievery:
For 10...30 seconds, one random non-Spell is disabled for target foe, and Thievery is replaced by that Skill. The Skill can be used at that foe's attribute level.

Visions of Regret:
For 5..17 seconds, target foe takes 30...102 damage whenever that foe uses an attack skill.

Symbols of Inspiration
cost: 5, recharge 20
For 5..13 seconds, the next time you use a Signet, it recharges instantly and you gain 1...8 energy.

Air of Disenchantment:
cost: 15
For 10 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes cast Enchantments 10...82% slower. When Air of Disenchantment ends, it removes one Enchantment from each affected foe.

Extend Conditions
recharge: 10

Tease:
For 20 seconds, Skills used by target touched foe take 20...84% longer to recharge. This skill ends if you attack.

Sig of Illusions:
cast time: 1

Hex Eater is I think fine.

[TeeGee]

Agreed in almost 100%

New elites are crappy - have fun value for first few runs but that's it.

Generally I don't like what ANert devs are doing to mesmer lately. I guess they want it to be Interrupter/Degener. Now Rangers are almost more "mesmerish" than mesmers itself (no nerf on debil shot O.o). Mesmers see less and less use in all forms of PvP and new elites will certainly not change that.

Too bad... I wonder if mesmers were actually that overpowered to treat them like that.

[Dragannia]

Agreed in almost 100%

New elites are crappy - have fun value for first few runs but that's it.

Generally I don't like what ANert devs are doing to mesmer lately. I guess they want it to be Interrupter/Degener. Now Rangers are almost more "mesmerish" than mesmers itself (no nerf on debil shot O.o). Mesmers see less and less use in all forms of PvP and new elites will certainly not change that.

Too bad... I wonder if mesmers were actually that overpowered to treat them like that.
Uh...Mesmers are even more powerful now with the new skills. The Elites have nothing to do with it, but skills like Hypochondria and its affinity with Fragility (whether this is a bug is debatable), Spiritual Pain, Mirror of Disenchantment and skills like those, are the ones which will make the difference. Mesmers still have a huge place in the metagame; as Hex removers, enchantment removers and supplementary spikers. With the new gank-based metagame, lots of teams are using Mesmers for ganking too, which are, frankly, faster and more efficient at ganking than Rangers are (compare the set up time of Barbed Arrows and Poison arrow, and if you want, Toxicity, with Conjure Phantasm and Images of Remorse).

@ Hella good

I think Hex Eater Vortex is a bit expensive for an Elite. If it cost 10 it would be decent.

[TeeGee]

I think Hex Eater Vortex is a bit expensive for an Elite. If it cost 10 it would be decent.

Agreed - still no one would use elite version of shatter hex. Frankly noone uses non-elite in PvP, although it's awesome PvE skill.

Mesmer aren't any more powerful than before - cause they were left behind comparing to new professions. They got some nice skills for existing builds, but nothing great/new/refreshing. FE: ether phantom is good cover hex but mass hex was viable without it. SP can spike nicely but so can EBurn and (especially) Shatter Ench. Actually I wouldn't drop any of theese two cause they are more versatile, and spiking with 3 skills is not really spiking.

What I mean is that mesmers should get some entirely new possibilities with their new elites (once again - compare it to what monk got - there will be many new builds now). New elites are only expansions of already existing skills (like ShatHex -> Hex Eater, A Thievery -> Thievery) which don't get much use anyway. Other elites are just funny, gimmick skills with no real use. With new professions, new builds and possibilities for old classes there could be no place fo messys in teams. Especially that such tendences are seen already. Rangers tend to push mesmers out (NR/tr, debil shot, interrupts, magebane strike, Toxicity). If mesmer will stay spike/hex(ench) managment then it will be replaced by paragons and rangers who can do basically the same thing (and even more) and aren't squishies.

The only new skill that could give mesmer new place in team is Mirror, but it costs steep 25 energy. And bonds are dead anyway so it's only counter to builds with Tainted necroes (which are not that hard anyway).

With this and lately tendence to nerf domination line spells other than interupts, mesmers are seen less and less. I'm not complaining - I'm observing a fact (which doesn't mean I'm happy with what I see).

Don't get me wrong - I don't think it's some mesmergeddon -people will still play mesmers on smaller scale. Even if only reason for that is cause someone in their team likes to play mesmer more than something else. Also we will still see them in hex overload teams (which is simple and somewhat primitive). Still I fear the moment when I will have to kick messy from my team's build cause it's not as effective as X. Actually I had such proposals from my guild before NF skills came out. Now I fear I will have to agree with them.

[Hella Good]

Lets just compare Mesmer elites usefulness to say Necro elites usefulness (NF-wise). Necro elites are incredible, wonderful skills that complement good non-elite skills. A few need a tag of tweaking and 1 or 2 are situational but on the whole Necros got it yum yum with NF- Ravenous Gaze (needs a lil bit of tweaking but is otherwise massive health stealing damage), Corrupt Enchantment (this skill outperforms any degen in the current metagame in terms of overall cost/damage efficiency), Sig of Suffering (simply incredible finishing move on a hex heavy build), Tattered Bonds (altho not versatile this skill has it's place and usefulness to counter chant spammers), Contagion (great elite for farming), Jagged Bones (hands down one of the best new elites), Order of Undeath (just think about the dps... enough said), Reaper's Mark (this skill is a Conjure Phantasm that last 30s!!!, but costs 5nrg, and gives you as much nrg as a Offering of Blood if the foe dies, waaaay to go). Depravity and Toxic Chill are the only 2 elites that are so so but STILL good.

We have nothing like that... not ONE of the new elites is rly worth a rating above avg, and most barely even make it that far. If the new metagame is going to involve a lot of enchantments then at least the 2 enchantment-related elites should be powerful. Enchanter's Conundrum should not only slow the casting of chants but it should remove all when it ends, and maybe do damage instead if there is no chants on target. Air of Disenchantment needs a bigger area, adjecent foes in an extremely unefficient area for PvP, and I doubt that this skill would matter anyhow in PvE. These 2 skills should at least measure up to the effectiveness of Expell Hexes in handling hexes.

Visions of Regret has a great potential, too, now all they need to do is remove the stupid adrenal requirement and switch it to attack skill requirement. If they do that, this skill will be one of the best Physicals Hate skills in the game.

And yes, it is all about the elites. Surely we have all these skills but what do we base our builds on? These elites dont even command enough respect to be the centerpiece of a build. And if they are telling us that we should just keep on using things we used before, with a little bit of twitch for NF, I'm not impressed, really.

[BaconSoda]

Immune Deficiency could be a way of unorganized groups with a mesmer to collect conditions and then send them to everyone with epidemic.:p just bringin that up, sincew we seem to need a use for it.

[Dragannia]

Lets just compare Mesmer elites usefulness to say Necro elites usefulness (NF-wise). Necro elites are incredible, wonderful skills that complement good non-elite skills. A few need a tag of tweaking and 1 or 2 are situational but on the whole Necros got it yum yum with NF- Ravenous Gaze (needs a lil bit of tweaking but is otherwise massive health stealing damage), Corrupt Enchantment (this skill outperforms any degen in the current metagame in terms of overall cost/damage efficiency), Sig of Suffering (simply incredible finishing move on a hex heavy build), Tattered Bonds (altho not versatile this skill has it's place and usefulness to counter chant spammers), Contagion (great elite for farming), Jagged Bones (hands down one of the best new elites), Order of Undeath (just think about the dps... enough said), Reaper's Mark (this skill is a Conjure Phantasm that last 30s!!!, but costs 5nrg, and gives you as much nrg as a Offering of Blood if the foe dies, waaaay to go). Depravity and Toxic Chill are the only 2 elites that are so so but STILL good.

We have nothing like that... not ONE of the new elites is rly worth a rating above avg, and most barely even make it that far. If the new metagame is going to involve a lot of enchantments then at least the 2 enchantment-related elites should be powerful. Enchanter's Conundrum should not only slow the casting of chants but it should remove all when it ends, and maybe do damage instead if there is no chants on target. Air of Disenchantment needs a bigger area, adjecent foes in an extremely unefficient area for PvP, and I doubt that this skill would matter anyhow in PvE. These 2 skills should at least measure up to the effectiveness of Expell Hexes in handling hexes.

Visions of Regret has a great potential, too, now all they need to do is remove the stupid adrenal requirement and switch it to attack skill requirement. If they do that, this skill will be one of the best Physicals Hate skills in the game.

And yes, it is all about the elites. Surely we have all these skills but what do we base our builds on? These elites dont even command enough respect to be the centerpiece of a build. And if they are telling us that we should just keep on using things we used before, with a little bit of twitch for NF, I'm not impressed, really.
I agree, but honestly, nothing will replace Mesmers until they dredge up another FC class. Mesmer non-elites are great, however, nothing really game-changing, but complementing existing Mesmer skills well. Except Spiritual Pain, which is rather good.

[Siddious]

Too me Visions Of Regret seems like a very useful spell in PVE, but I do agree that in PVP it does not have as much use.
I do agree that necro's got a way better selection of elites though. Thankfully mesmers aren't about the elites but are mostly about the non-elites and we have some awesome ones in NF.
All in all I don't think we got bad elites and they are better than the factions elites (apart from Expel Hexes and possibly Phychic Distraction).

[Hella Good]

It's not a matter of being replaced, altho already other prof are taking on traditionally Me roles (R started doing ED with Deb Shot and have always been better at interrupts, Necros and Sins chant management, etc.). I am simply saying that I expect reasonable buffs to these elites. I can see some of them as very useful if only they are tweaked a bit. Namely Enchanter's Conundrum (lose all enchantments if enchanted, or take damage if not), Air of Disenchantment (nearby instead of adjacent foes), and Visions of Regret (attack skill instead of adrenal skill). If at least those 3 skills are made into wonderful elites (which- mind you- does not requre major changes) I'll be happy with what we get in NF, otherwise, I don't see any of these elite skills ending up on my skill bar, not one of them.

[Master Fuhon]

Playing a SoI build will be entirely possible, but you're playstyle is going to be the most difficult to master compared to most mesmer builds, it's not a simple matter of predicting interrupts or casting diversion at the right time, you're gonna have to have a third eye to keep track of what goes on around you, so that what you steal is what you expect to steal.

Arcane Mimicry on your Ritualist with Attuned Was Songkai. You will have an unweidly casting time for Arcane Mimicry --> Signet of Illusion --> Attuned Was Songkai (2+2+2+aftercasts) as well as a 25 energy cost (assuming you didn't glyph of lesser energy Arcane Mimicry ;) ), but you could have 45 seconds of energy management (item holding issues included). So much downtime, however, makes it seem like a PvE build. This is probably the skill combination that is limiting the true use of the skill, with regular skill stealing.

SoI looks like a gimmick, unfortunately.

Edit: Fast Casting helps...

[Gedrand]

While I'm not the most experienced mezzer out there, I'm very excited about Signet of Illusions. I can already tell that it will be my new favorite skill! :D It's not only going to power the current mimicry lineup, but it's also adding the ability to bring along a big helper spell and play some interesting 'chameleon' builds. Having that level of versatility is definitely going to be worth using the sig as my Elite, and I think the idea really goes along with the image of the Mesmer.

I'm looking forward to doing something like I used to do with my Elementalist when I used Water. I'd like to play a 'utility' sort of role using Signet of Illusions followed by Blurred Vision for a 21 second period of 50% miss, and follow it up with Spirit of Failure to gain back a large amount of that energy while you go on to other things. It may not end up being as awesome as I'm thinking, but it's an interesting idea I plan to pursue.

Some of the big Elementalist spells could prove very handy to bring along. Heck, many primary attribute spells from other caster professions could be very interesting: Aura of Restoration for a nice bit of healing, for example, and if you're already playing a thief/mimic/Illusion-heavy setup, you're not going too far out of your way.

I might be wrong on that, but I think it will be a fun skill to play with. Also, I'm not PvP oriented, so I unfortunately can't comment on that aspect of it.

[Terra Xin]

Visions of Regret:
For 5..17 seconds, target foe takes 30...102 damage whenever that foe uses an attack skill.

No, you would most definately have to reduce the damage on this to make it around about twice as powerful as Empathy, but equally so, the damage would occur half as often. At least this way, "weakness" may play a slightly more important role.

[Hella Good]

Double posting 4tw! You gotta love the lag on this server.

[Hella Good]

I'm disappointed by this skill. I wanted a good new fighter hate hex and instead we got this- a prolonged Backfire on adrenal skills, which tho does less damage than BF does per trigger. And then the number of spells versus the number of adrenal skillls... lets just say that 5 professions use spells- Eles, Necros, Mesmers, Ritualists, and Dervishes; while only 2 prof use adrenal skills- Warriors and Paragons. If the skill triggered on attack skill, Rangers, Sins, and Dervishes will be included in the count. Such a skill will be a wonderful fighter hate- Domination fighter hate, as opposed to Illusion; equally as effective, viable, and deadly. I'd take such a skill even if it's duration was reduced to 15s at 16 Domi. I'm not going to bother bilding so niche tho with the current version.

[Siddious]

Visions of Regret:
For 5..17 seconds, target foe takes 30...102 damage whenever that foe uses an attack skill.

No, you would most definately have to reduce the damage on this to make it around about twice as powerful as Empathy, but equally so, the damage would occur half as often. At least this way, "weakness" may play a slightly more important role.

Agreed. If they changed it to this it would be way overpowered. I personally think this skill is fine the way it is...

[Hella Good]

Agreed. If they changed it to this it would be way overpowered. I personally think this skill is fine the way it is...
Not really. Backfire does essentially the same, altho BF's duration is always at 10s (and does more damage per trigger), which I did say that duration of this new VoR might have to be capped at about 15s. In fact if you count all attack skills and count all spells you will find out that spells outnumber attack skills. In other words, the scope of BF is bigger than the scope of the suggested skill. AND the scope of BF is far far bigger than the scope of the current skill. I am suggesting an elite BF for attacking things, nothing more, nothing overpowered about it.

Having an adrenal BF is pathtic to say the least, if I ever wanted to bother with countering adrenaline, I'd simply take Sympathtic Visage/Soothing Images, thank you very much. I don't need a clumsy elite to do that.

Plus all attacking things can simply do what all spellcasting things do when they get BF-ed- wait it out, heal up, use proto skills to cap the damage and simply keep attacking, or, of course, remove the hex... I betcha when BF 1st came on the scene people thought it was ridiculously overpowered. Yea right...

[TeeGee]

I would never call Backfire overpowered, so elite, adrenal-only version of it cannot be too good.

If VoR would be overpowered with the buff Hella Good suggested, then BF would be something like old Energy Tap/Drain...

I sadly must agree that all NF mesmer elites need some buffing to see the game at all. Actually most Factions elites could use a buff or two too.

[Former Ruling]

Elite Analysis:

Enchanter's Con.:
Weak anti-Dervish? Naw...dmg is ONLY if they arent under enchant?

Hex Eater Vortex:
Elite Shatter Hex - with alittle bit about removing enchants on it. Guess what? Guess what enchants it will hit? dervish ones that they WANT removed..so its effectiveness is that of Shatter Hex..

Power Flux:
Power Block LOOKS good too, but who uses it? Noone? Thats right.

Simple Theivery:
AT first I was WTF is this, get an attack skill or something? Then I thought...on a Caster, you are likely getting their rez sig!!! Which gives you two rez sigs and them none...Then thought, is rez sig taking worth an elite?

Visions of Regret:
Elite adrenaline backfire >_> It'll be taken off alot...

Symbols of In:
Worse than Boon of Signets >_> They are REALLY pushing signet builds with the mesmer, without giving them us real incentive to make all signet builds (the underpowered keystone, this...)

Air of Disenchantment:
An AoE (small AoE) Enchanters Con...without dmg, but it removes one enchant on end. WOW...not...see my review of Enchanters.

Extend conditions:
This would be HAX if Restore Condition, Extinguish, etc, etc didnt exist. But they do. So no.

Tease:
Ends if they hit you, and its touch range, so how hard is it >_> I dont get it.

Sig of Illusion:
Wow, alot of possibilities here, that I cant think of right now :)

[Dragannia]

Reguarding Simple Thievery...

Is it possible to steal Victory or Death? Or Oath of Healing?

[TeeGee]

Reguarding Simple Thievery...

Is it possible to steal Victory or Death? Or Oath of Healing?

Nah, It's not possible to steal monster skills or even disable them in any way (diversion and stuff).

[Dragannia]

Nah, It's not possible to steal monster skills or even disable them in any way (diversion and stuff).
I'm pretty sure you can Diversion "Base Defense." And Distracting Shot it.

[Claudia Starlight]

I don't really see the usefulness of Simple Thievery... I mean, what if you steal totally random stuff like Res Sig or Sprint?

I think would be more useful to let it steal a spell/skill of your choice (think cap sig interface). Now that's sorta worthy of being considered an elite.

Think i'm gonna love web of disruption though

[Avarre]

I'm pretty sure you can Diversion "Base Defense."

I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

[Franco]

quote Power Flux:
Power Block LOOKS good too, but who uses it? Noone? Thats right. /quote


lol i need to tell my friend this, he thinks im noob because I use migraine and he is better because he uses power block :P

[Hella Good]

And in truth both are pathetic. :-p

Simple Thevery is worthless, because the skill you gain you can't do jack with. It's absolutely not worth the elite status. It is inferior to Arcane Thevery/Larceny. Now if you could use the skill at the attribute level your foe had it at, that could be interesting. Otherwise this elite is not even worth capping.

[Xasew]

But Z0MG you can steal a Res Sig?!?!

Making a thief build would prolly be funny...
...but hardly effective.

[Claudia Starlight]

is there any way to contact ANet and see if any changes can be made before the release of NF? :p

[Hella Good]

Not directly. What happens is you complain a ton and then maybe, just maybe 6 months later they make some changes. I am very happy tho, least my Necro gets a load of 8 superb, and 2 above avg elites. I'll just do what I have been planning on doing for awhile now- cap/buy the new Me skills on my N, and get rid of my PvE Me. Unless they have some awesomely looking armor that I simply have to have.

[Lady Lozza]

quote Power Flux:
Power Block LOOKS good too, but who uses it? Noone? Thats right. /quote


lol i need to tell my friend this, he thinks im noob because I use migraine and he is better because he uses power block :P

I am continually amazed by this forum.

After countless discussion on designing a build for a map area to get the most effect, people come up with things like this. I would think you a "noob" if you took migrane instead of powerblock into Perdition Rock or UW. Powerblock is godly when used in the RIGHT situations. Granted the maps where it is useful are limited, but they DO exist.