Dervishes= More hated by monks than sins.

[LifeInfusion]

Mystic Regeneration: When this Enchantment ends, you lose one Enchantment.
Mystic Sandstorm: Lose all Enchantments.
Pious Concentration: you lose 1 Enchantment or Pious Concentration ends.
Signet of Piety:Lose one Enchantment.
Eremite's Zeal: Lose one Enchantment for each adjacent foe. You gain 1...4 Energy for each Enchantment removed in this way.
Extend Enchantments: Lose all Enchantments.
Meditation: Lose one Enchantment.
Pious Haste: When this Stance ends, you lose 1 Enchantment
Irresistable Sweep: You lose one Enchantment.
Twin Moon Sweep: You lose one Enchantment.
Pious Restoration: Lose one Enchantment
Rending Touch: You and target touched foe lose one Enchantment
Winds of Disenchantment: Lose all Enchantments
================================================== =======
Mysticism (Primary) : Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 3 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 2 ranks of Mysticism.
...16* 3HP =48 HP per enchant lost if you max the primary attribute
================================================== ====
Basically a detriment to bonders, boonprots and all enchantment users that buff the team.
Even in the PvP event I saw monking was a pain unless you went pure heal...

[Zinger314]

Boon Prots?!

Boon Prots heal an extra 48 HP for each Enchantment they cast on a Dervish. Definaltely not anti-Monk.

[unholy guardian]

Yes add reveral of fortune and you and the dervish will be happy...less healing needed for them, so bonders may have a slight problem, the dervish can handle themself pretty well with just themselves, hand them a couple enchants to use and it will be awesome.

[Plushie Penguin]

don't forget skills are going to get changed before the release, they could be changed to removing dervish enchantments only

[Katari]

Boon Prot monks generally have a bunch of fairly short duration enchantments, Myst will only help in that area. It's not like half of the dervish skills wern't enchantments. Carefull managment of enchantments would allow a dervish to be bonded, since all of their enchants would be on top of the bonds, and they'd be the first enchants removed.

[TheAmaizingDave]

Maybe we may see more resto Rt's around.

[Terra Xin]

I don't get it, how does a boon prot have trouble healing a dervish again? Most of the monks spells dont even last that long.

[ubermancer]

Each of the Dervish attributes has a self heal. Not even monks can boast that.

Compare that to that crap of a heal Shadow Refuge, and compare Mirage Cloak with the ELITE Flashing Blades...

[fallot]

Basically a detriment to bonders, boonprots and all enchantment users that buff the team.
Even in the PvP event I saw monking was a pain unless you went pure heal...

No offense but that's pretty stupid. They gain energy and health when enchants end on them. How you managed to delude yourself into believing that was bad is beyond my knowledge.

[0mar]

wait what? Unless you use garbage healing spells like healing breeze, monks should welcome the new dervish if the changes stay in place.

For a boon prot, a single ROF will heal ~200 damage. 48 + 70 from the divine favor + divine boon. Up to 67 from damage --> health conversion and on top of that, 35ish (not to mention energy) health from mysticism triggering on enchantment end.

[Ezekial Bain]

Looks like Dervishes will get on well with Ritualists and their Weapon Spells then.

I'm looking forward to taking my Resto. Rit into Elona.

[Shadowfrost]

I reckon D/Mo will just take ROF as a heal, because it ends so easily and often, and it recharges and casts so quickly it could be a lifesaver. And all those dervish enchantments.... *drool*

AoE damage enchants that don't scare away the enemy FTW!

[mega_jamie]

Dervish arnt going to be hated imo, as everyone has said, these enchant enders are a good thing really, as long as it's ending the right enchants, so careful stacking if your that bothered.

IMO these guys, under the mechanics we saw at PvP event are going to be highly highly appreciated, A D/W will probably be able to both tank and dish out some major major damage, I mean, think of how quickly you would raise adrenaline. I can see FoW teams made up on Rit, Mo and dervishes only doing extremely well.

I think people who arnt good monks, or can't adapt will end up screaming "stop knocking my enchants off", especially if they think their breeze just saved you, but most people I feel will enjoy a Dervish in the party, ALOT more than they do an assassin.

[Kabale]

I'm not worried about healing Dervishes, I'm more worried about enemy Dervishes taking away MY enchantments. Not to mention other classes doing so...

Rending Touch: You and target touched foe lose one Enchantment

Forget Shock Warriors, this is the new metagame...

[urbnatr]

nah not going to be a problem

[Horseman Of War]

Well basically, enchantment management (i.e. layering) will be the definitive line between a 'pro' and a 'noob'

I dont think a monk should worry about the dervishes too much, they are too easy to self-heal.

[unienaule]

Dervishes are probably going to get nerfed, so, wait until they're changed, THEN complain? Not that this isn't a good point, but as other people have pointed out, it's not like ending the enchant doesn't do anything. That's what their primary attribute/energy management is BASED off of. So some other form of monking might be better because dervishes end enchants all the time! Big deal! As I recall, people didn't just drop over dead every second before the boonprot became popular.

[Quid Pro Quo]

I hope they don't nerf the stuff people didn't play like the scythe skills. I was one of the few people using a different build then everyone else and found that the Dervishes were quite balanced and fun to play if you used them for other then the builds being exploited which mostly consisted of enchantment managing.

[unholy guardian]

yeah the syche skills were fun... they didn't seem to mesh with the other skills enough though.

[LifeInfusion]

When I say boon prot and bonders I mean maintained maintained enchants or those with significant duration, specifically Life Bond/Life Barrier in addition to Protective Spirit, Vigorous Spirit, Aegis, Shielding Hands, Judge's Insight, Healing Breeze, Healng Seed, Shield Guardian, Spirit Bond, Shield of Regen... basically anything > 10 seconds.

I didn't mean RoF and Guardian... those are only about 5-6 seconds as it is.

Seriously, they ought to make the skills end enchantments that are from the Dervish profession only.

Another thing is how will this work with Orders Necros and other team buffs...

[Guardian of the Light]

I'm not worried about healing Dervishes, I'm more worried about enemy Dervishes taking away MY enchantments. Not to mention other classes doing so...

Rending Touch: You and target touched foe lose one Enchantment

Forget Shock Warriors, this is the new metagame...

lol TOUCH WARRIORS run.

[NinjaKai]

Not all dervish will use skills that lose enchantments. Why does no one focus on the positive things.

[Horseman Of War]

oh no, poor metagame... suddenly dervish has no opponent with enchantments on their skillbars and gets to spin around like an idiot for 3 minutes.... cause and effect-

too many people run around with the same old builds that are on guildwiki, maybe people will get more creative.

nerf mesmer cuz he kills your dervishes zomg seriously i think people just like using the word 'nerf'

[mega_jamie]

When I say boon prot and bonders I mean maintained maintained enchants or those with significant duration, specifically Life Bond/Life Barrier in addition to Protective Spirit, Vigorous Spirit, Aegis, Shielding Hands, Judge's Insight, Healing Breeze, Healng Seed, Shield Guardian, Spirit Bond, Shield of Regen... basically anything > 10 seconds.

I didn't mean RoF and Guardian... those are only about 5-6 seconds as it is.

Seriously, they ought to make the skills end enchantments that are from the Dervish profession only.

Another thing is how will this work with Orders Necros and other team buffs...

All of those Big casts / recharge times can be covered by a Rit Lord easily, people really need to consider Rit Lords as a excelent replacement to the second monk, and I think this will make them do so

Shelter > Union > Displacement > recoup Dervish cant sack these bonuses so feel free to enchant them to you hearts content.

[lightblade]

"Mysticism (Primary) : Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 3 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 2 ranks of Mysticism."

Yes...it does sound good, but it only works on enchantments that is casted on the Dervish itself...unlike Soul Reaping

[LifeInfusion]

mega jamie,

1. you do realize there is an extremely high probability there will be few primary ritualists going over there since they are most likely not getting any new skills.

2. ritualists cannot start in Nightfall, they have to start in Factions only

3. not every ritualist is a Rit Lord spirit spammer

4. some ritualists may not have capped Rit Lord

5. More people ask for monks than ritualists, despite some of them being Rit Lord spirit spammers

================================================== =====
This is my concern when NOT playing my monk, who uses only one enchant, Prot Spirit. When I play my other characters, I see many monk enchantment users...Healing Breeze/Healing Seed/Vigorous Spirit is common among new heal monks while Prot Spirit/Spirit bond/ Aegis/ Shield of Regen/Shielding Hands/Life Sheath are common among new prot monks.

Surely, people on this forum are more knowledgeable than the monks ingame. I've had monks use mending on the party (!), so my hope is really dwindling.

[LightningHell]

When I say boon prot and bonders I mean maintained maintained enchants or those with significant duration, specifically Life Bond/Life Barrier in addition to Protective Spirit, Vigorous Spirit, Aegis, Shielding Hands, Judge's Insight, Healing Breeze, Healng Seed, Shield Guardian, Spirit Bond, Shield of Regen... basically anything > 10 seconds.

Talking from a non-HA perspective:

Vigorous Spirit, Shielding Hands, Healing Breeze (except for Emos), Healing Seed, Shield of Regeneration aren't used anyway - and I haven't seen Shield Guardian, and non-Factions-ownership-ftl.

So that leaves Prot Spirit, (Healing Breeze,) and Spirit Bond - and Spirit Bond lasts for 8 seconds only anyway.

[carpethair]

D/me? any good there that you guys can suggest?

[Franco]

lol, Boon Prot monk enchantments last like 5 seconds, and only cost like 5 energy to cast, what are you stressing about.

[SnipiousMax]

^ Mantra or Boon getting stripped would suck.

[sccrjamie]

mega jamie,

1. you do realize there is an extremely high probability there will be few primary ritualists going over there since they are most likely not getting any new skills.




Have you not looked at the 25 new Rit skills on guildwiki? And btw, if you have a character you like and can play well, you'll try to take it anywhere new.

[Solar_Takfar]

Another thing is how will this work with Orders Necros and other team buffs...

Dervish with continual orders in it is going to be pretty good... if they have 12 mysticism and good scythe mastery, they'll be able to deliver pious attack basically for free (4 energy gained back, plus the time it takes to swing, the 5 energy cost is paid) every 5 seconds, and get 24 health every time. that small heal alone is equivalent to over 2 pips of health regen; even more if they have OotV on them. Then of course there's the extra damage awarded by orders when not discharging the enchantment, and the extra damage dealt by pious assault when discharging it.

A team of dervishes backed up by an orders necro, a monk, and perhaps a good paragon with "watch yourself!", mending refrain, and then cautery sig for condition control sounds pretty damn strong (and they won't fall to the weakness I expect many dervs will have, which is having to cast enchantments while in combat to be effective - a backfire will easily kill this type of Derv).

[SpookyTaco]

I really don't see the problem... every enchantment that ends on the dervish is a self heal... kocking off enchantments is how they stay alive, it makes it so they require almost no additional healing from the monks in the party, you can almost completely ignore them and they function just fine.

Why your getting upset about that is beyond my ability to conceive. and as was said by someone else already, its not like everybody was just droping dead everywhere before boonprot was popular, beleive it or not, we did manage without them.

[Farcry Deathblade]

All those dervish enchantments plus dwayna's kiss= healing for 200+ at only 5 energy... *drool*

[draxynnic]

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far - I don't think a dervish is really able to survive on it's own purely from Mysticism without a healer on call, especially if the Dervish starts to get spiked - but it is a nice little extra benefit to survivability that the Assassin doesn't have. Whether the Dervish is quite as durable as the Warrior I don't know (I would guess not), but I think it will be better able to withstand damage than the Assassin despite having the same 70 armour.

[Sinborn]

The day I see myself canceling a RoF before it's stripped by damage, I'll. . . Well, I'll accuse the opposing side for not hitting me.

[Cirian]

I wonder - if a Dervish has OotV on them and uses pious attack, does the enchant drop before they reap the lifesteal bonus or immediately after?

I imagine an D/Me with mesmer enchants might be amusing too... chanelling, arcane echo, IW, arcane mimicry and so on

[SpookyTaco]

played correctly i really think a dervish could tank better than a warrior can currently, despite the fact that theyve been given the 70 AL I really think we'll see many prominant Dervish tanks around after the full release.

But.

The warrior still has a slightly higher capacity for dealing damadge due to the fact that they have the strengh attribute, but take into consideration the dervish has enchantments that make theyre attacks deal holy damadge (effectivly giving theyre attacks 100% armor penetration) That said, I would most likely play as a supporting damadge dealer... much like an assasin, however, unlike an assasin, you can actually defend yourself with the many defensive skills available to the dervish.

What i'm seeing gentleman, Is an assasin who can opperate with little attention from monks.

I'd love to hear some other thoughts about this...

[Etrik]

I wonder - if a Dervish has OotV on them and uses pious attack, does the enchant drop before they reap the lifesteal bonus or immediately after?

I imagine an D/Me with mesmer enchants might be amusing too... chanelling, arcane echo, IW, arcane mimicry and so on
The skill description starts with 'Lose one enchantment.', so you lose the enchantment first. And a D/Me with IW should be fun.. if it's the first enchant you cast. Also makes me wonder if IW hits 3 targets.. it's awfully imba then (daggers may still outdamage, as scythes are very situational - only useful when mobs are clustered).

played correctly i really think a dervish could tank better than a warrior can currently, despite the fact that theyve been given the 70 AL I really think we'll see many prominant Dervish tanks around after the full release.
Avatar of Balthazar + that stance that gives you regen when not enchanted/24 armor while enchanted. That amasses to over 150 armor, which is huge.

The warrior still has a slightly higher capacity for dealing damadge due to the fact that they have the strengh attribute, but take into consideration the dervish has enchantments that make theyre attacks deal holy damadge (effectivly giving theyre attacks 100% armor penetration) That said, I would most likely play as a supporting damadge dealer... much like an assasin, however, unlike an assasin, you can actually defend yourself with the many defensive skills available to the dervish.
I beg to differ, warriors have more damage potential because of adren spikes, not strength. Eviscerate saves the day, again. And holy damage does not give you 100% armor penetration. The only skills that gives you 100% armor penetration are Obsidian Flame and holy damage smiting spells. 100% armor penetration means ignoring armor, holy damage doesn't do that. The armor on your armor sets (60-100) applies to everything that is not elemental or Obisidan Flame, including holy damage (it's not elemental and it's not OF). I'm talking about holy damage from melee/ranged attacks here, of course. Holy spells ignore all armor, always. Thing is, you only have your basic armor as defense against holy. +20 against Physical or +30 Elemental won't help you, since holy partains to neither of those 2 categories. And 'Sins have tons of defensive skills. Check a Priest of Balthazar for more info on that.

That said, I'll most likely be playing as an Avatar of Balthazar/Sand Shards + SoM solo AoE farmer.
What i'm seeing gentleman, Is an assasin who can opperate with little attention from monks.

I'd love to hear some other thoughts about this...
Not even close. Dervishes have nowhere near the spiking power of sins, especially with Signet of Toxicity getting added. 500 damage + constant KD anyone?

[Horseman Of War]

all i know is that a monk better be careful which heals she will be using on my dervish.

during the event I had to bitch-slap donkoro a few times for messing up my style with stupid healing breeze (self-learned lesson) and mending. So i popped on Dwayna's Kiss and heaven's delight instead...

Not all dervish builds rely on Dropping the enchants... some builds built around mystic sweep for one example would easily benefit from monk enchantments.

So, if youre a monk and reading this- take this into consideration, and ask your dervish teammate what kind of build hes running.


BTW- lets see your dervish RoF something other than nukers and tanks. Mesmer > Dervish.

Just to let you know, D/Mo is going to be about as popular as A/Mo when its all said and done. Dont gimp yourself.

[XvArchonvX]

*sigh* double post sry. For some reason Guru loads really slow for me. Sometimes after I hit submit the page doesn't load. When this happens sometimes my post isn't completed and sometimes it is. =(

[XvArchonvX]

during the event I had to bitch-slap donkoro a few times for messing up my style with stupid healing breeze (self-learned lesson) and mending. So i popped on Dwayna's Kiss and heaven's delight instead...


....you gave Donkoro mending? wtf?!?!? I think he should have slapped you.

As for healing breeze, I gave him that skill and he almost never used it.

[Str0b0]

yeah the syche skills were fun... they didn't seem to mesh with the other skills enough though.

Actually I found that they meshed in quite well. To me the key to the dervish will be the enchants but with proper layering a scythe based dervish can dish out huge damage by ending enchants for extra oomph in their strikes. I too predict that D/W will be popular as well as D/Rit for the weapon enchants.

[twighlightwordzhu]

what i say is for the monk to only cast non maintained enchants on dervish
when i was playing i could pretty much take care of myself with my enchants(excluding the healing spells my monk henchy or hero casted on me) i dont beleive that dervish will be worse than a TANKING sin. more or less i think the dervish will be able to over power(MAYBE) a sin with the right knowledge.
what ppl dont realize is that the newest classes(ritualist,assasin,dervish,and paragon) are strategy classes, u have to learn to use them correctly and learn how to chain skills to keep urself and others alive.
but i do understand what u mean since thers such a low armor count for both the sin and dervish. but i truly think that the dervish will be able to pull through just wait and see.

[Lord Oranos]

From what I have seen at the event, the Dervish will be pretty tough(hope they dont nerf it).

If you want to tank... just use Conviction, really, people think warriors are tanking gods, wait till they see a Dervish have 94 al and be able to heal him/herself for upwards of 250hp. Stack that on top of aoe attacks and they are a powerhouse.

Not to say they will beat warriors, but they will not be as weak as sins, far from it.

[Guardian of the Light]

From what I have seen at the event, the Dervish will be pretty tough(hope they dont nerf it).

If you want to tank... just use Conviction, really, people think warriors are tanking gods, wait till they see a Dervish have 94 al and be able to heal him/herself for upwards of 250hp. Stack that on top of aoe attacks and they are a powerhouse.

Not to say they will beat warriors, but they will not be as weak as sins, far from it.

Dervishs definitely are good at tanking if you bring tanking skills. However not as good as warrior. Even with my favorite tanking skill Conviction then you still don't have good armor to warriors (sword and axe).

Warrior(with glads): 80 base armor +16 for shield= 96 (106 or 116 against physical)

Extra factors: Absorbtion -3, -2.-1 against physical

Dervish: 70 Base armor + 24 conviction= 94 against all sources.

Extra factors: +health armor from chest piece.

So really letting your warrior partner go take the agro first is probably a good idea still.

[Lord Oranos]

Dervishs definitely are good at tanking if you bring tanking skills. However not as good as warrior. Even with my favorite tanking skill Conviction then you still don't have good armor to warriors (sword and axe).

Warrior(with glads): 80 base armor +16 for shield= 96 (106 or 116 against physical)

Extra factors: Absorbtion -3, -2.-1 against physical

Dervish: 70 Base armor + 24 conviction= 94 against all sources.

Extra factors: +health armor from chest piece.

So really letting your warrior partner go take the agro first is probably a good idea still.

Thats true, warriors can have 100 base al and have +16 from the shield. Warriors will always be the best at tanking, but, in terms of self heals, the Dervish has more capabilities, which kinda makes up for the lack of al, I think.

[Khift]

I'm not worried about healing Dervishes, I'm more worried about enemy Dervishes taking away MY enchantments. Not to mention other classes doing so...

Rending Touch: You and target touched foe lose one Enchantment

Forget Shock Warriors, this is the new metagame...I highly doubt that. Shock is one of the scariest skills a warrior can bring, assuming he uses it well. Rending Touch is good, but for the most part inferior to a KD or even to Plague Touch. It's nice to power through a guardian or strip a prot pre-spike, but that's about it.

[Guardian of the Light]

I highly doubt that. Shock is one of the scariest skills a warrior can bring, assuming he uses it well. Rending Touch is good, but for the most part inferior to a KD or even to Plague Touch. It's nice to power through a guardian or strip a prot pre-spike, but that's about it.


What about it on a Hammer W/D?

[Longasc]

I think the problem of monks hating certain professions in PvE has been solved:

Heroes


Even better for those who already prefered Henchway to PuGs.

Let's see how Dervish do on Elonian Mainland. The Tutorial Island did not bring you much further than level 16/17, but in this environment I could not complain about them at all.

[Esprit]

Don't forget that Dervish load themselves up with their own enchants. A build typically revolves around them bringing enchantments and skills that strip them.

With a little coordination between a Dervish and Monk, you can typically cover most cases where the Dervish might accidentally strips one.

[NinjaKai]

If your a decent monk then you need to use coimmon sense. There are other spells available apart from enchantments. You just need to be creative.

[Heros Warrior]

Lets just say i don't care to kill Dervishes in Nightfall and i'm level 20. Don't really care to be slcied to peices by a scyth.

[Celestial Beaver]

Heh, cool! Maybe my Restoration Ritualist will have a better chance of getting into a party in Elona! Shame I was going to start a monk over there though! Maybe I'll have to make her smiting! :D

"Monk LFG!"

"Hi, I'm Smiting BTW"

"Hey, Why did I get kicked?"

Hmmm...on second thoughts...

[Desires]

Well I won't be partying D or P for a weeks after the release gives the noobs time to move on and some decent builds to set in. If that means I only party with henchies it will be faster then strugling with a group of dervs and paragons with no monks or rits.

[Spirit Of Azrael]

Its like assassins. Now I party with em all the time, because most of the asshats have been rooted out of my second-favorite prof. But when Factions came out, I group with (I kid you not) "Nahrootoh Uzymahky" or something to that effect. I was playing my monk. I never healed him,and told him to Alt+F4 and uninstall GW. He left, and the party celebrated.

[Priest Of Sin]

See you in hell, bonding monks.

DERVISH SUPER TANK FTW!!!!!!

[Red_Dragon56]

It's fun with Dervishes and Monks. during event I use a pure enchantment monk (constants) in RA.

Dervishes have "you do +whatever damage with each enchantment on you" skills too. so already they have 6 enchants on 'em (one res sig and one energy manager on my monk) so as long as they do not remove them they work EXTEMELY well. I remember making a Dervish near invincible and him taking on 3-4 opponents at once while doing "MASSIVE DAMAGE" (mind you this is RA, but still fun)

I think Monks and Dervs get along quite well.

[Mary Maiden]

i just think that necros with enchant manipulation are going to be very popular anti d suport chars

[A_Muppet]

IRt OP:

The ponit your missing is, it's unusal for a dervish not to have at least two enchants they've put onto themselves by themselves. I've found playing the dervish that I usually die because a monk's put an enchantment on me-I'm about to remove an enchant and give myself 160 health, only for a monk to slap 'Healing Breeze' on me and I remove that instead!

If you're a monk and you want to heal a dervish, two words: Dwayna's Kiss.

[Str0b0]

See this is why I use the monk Hero instead of real player monks. Heros FTW!

[Chilly Ress]

2 words: Dervish Smite.

[Sidra]

Well... I'm lv8, close to lv9... My build works pretty damn well. Got 2 enchantments, one which I run constantly, and one which I cast in the center of mobs (Grenth's Fingers FTW!). My max health is raised (guess the first enchant, hah), and I get the 15% dmg bonus from my preorder weapons. Once I hit lv7 and finally got my scythe mastery to 9, I started destroying the plants/insects. Hitting for at least 30 dmg each time, on backswings sometimes upwards of 70, and taking on the Drakes and other random hexing-ibogas that were over 3 lvls higher than me. And my monk hero (dunkoro) doesn't even work right. I don't have mysticism up much, but I can see your point about the heal/destruction thing. Will have to look into that.

All I have to say, is that a De/Rt would probably kick some SERIOUS ass.

[Canius]

My derv and 2 hero monks are farming along just fine....;)

[Talonz]

Well, playing my nub Dervish with the heroes and all, I find it fairly easy to pay attention to what enchantments are on me before I begin to remove them. If I see a pro spirit or heeling breeze on top, I just cast out another enchantment to stack on it and then remove that one.

Of course not all people are brilliant enough to do this (that is, they care enough about the monks' enchants).

[LiamR]

I'd like to say my view on this. For some reason, i seem to take less damage from foes being a Dervish than an assassin. Both have same AL.. But i get targetted less and have less damage done to me, more selfheals, and can do more damage outright, and look way cooler :D

Screw you monks, I'm going home.