Mesmers coming to an end?

[BanaXX]

Hello Guys,

I have been hearing some people saying that paragons are the new anti mesmers seeinga s they have anti hex abilities. I am not sure if this is right but this is what im saying. I know the whole mesmer class isnt going to be destroyed, but will they survive the paragon?

Thx,
BanaXX

[LordLucifer]

was Scourge healing the end of monks?

[Terra Xin]

Mesmers have anti hex abilities, the only class mesmers should be worried about is their own.

Aside... The Paragon only has 1 anti-hex skill (and it's not even that great), what are you talking about?

Dervishes have 2 anti-hex skills... um...?

[NinjaKai]

Mesmers have the ability to remove hexes, Manipulate hexes, Shutdown professions, Interrupt, etc. Yes the dervish and paragons are a real threat to the mesmers.

[Daemon Dremora]

wow i dont know who has been telling you all of that. i mean come on now think logically. the mesmer can shutdown hexes. so one more class with one or so shutdown abilities isnt going to make a world of change.

[Themis]

I would rather say that Paragons and Mesmers have one thing in common : team strategy regulation.

Paragons have the ability of regulating allies' forces while Mesmers regulate opponents' forces.

I don't consider Paragon's regulation as a replacement of (nor a threat for) the Mesmer profession, i see it rather as as complement.

[Pat_vaynard]

Just another flavor to play around with. It's nothing dramatic I assure you.

[Numa Pompilius]

Mesmer? No, mesmers have many uses beyond hexing. Hexing, in turn, was weakened with the release of Factions, I don't think Nightfall will either help or hurt any more.

No, the paragon is the end of the bow ranger.

OK, no, not that either, there's still the interrupts and barrage, but R/P w spear >> R/* for damage output. My R/P was comparable to my axe warrior for straight damage, and that's pretty fricking awesome.

[Avarre]

Avarre does not come to an end, case closed!

The class with the greatest hex defence remains mesmers themselves.

[BanaXX]

Phew, thx for the quick replys guys. I read it somewhere on guru, i guess it was just a rumour.

[Themis]

Avarre does not come to an end, case closed!.

Perhaps without an internet connexion ? :evil:

[Electric Sky]

mesmers when played right are an awesome class and will not be gone as long as guild wars exists !

[Electric Death]

To me heavy hex builds of the past are gone, there are just too many anti hex skills atm, but mesmers dont just use hexes so its not the end of mesmers, but with expel hexes, convert hexes, 2x inspired hex (these are the most common ofc not all) and now some new hex removals from the new classes, i dont think that hexes will still be in use as much as before for much longer.

But i think the anti warrior hexes will still be used, since they dont have to last all that long, just enough to put off a adren spike.

Oh an about there only being 1 or 2 hex removals on the new class, im pretty sure that the skills they gave for the beta weekend aren't all the skills that they have coming out, there were very few skills and for an example there were no Sythe Elites, to me thats like having no axe/sword/hammer elites, so i think that they are only showing about half the skills that will come out, maybe im wrong but thats what i would think.

[Hella Good]

*remembers the Assassins to be the end of Mesmers thread with a teary eye*

Yea... we seen those claims before. I think the Gamespy or whatever article was the one that started this whole confusion. They claimed that Paragons will be able to manage hexes very well. Granted there are 15 Paragon skills (10 of which are likely elites) that haven't yet been revealed, this claim seems a bit brave. I mean look at Monks. Count all the hex removers they have available. By all means, a Monk with her whole skill bar dedicated to removing hexes should be the end of all hexing. Will a Monk ever build for that? Highly unlikely. Will a Paragon ever build for anti-hexing? The answer remains the same.

Now, remember the claims that Mesmers will have to radically change their playstyle to "survive" Assasins? Just who is on the surviving end now? Heck, Sins don't even try to mess with Mesmers now, cause they get fried like moths on a lighbulb. You think Paragons will be any different? I carried my classic Surge/Shackwrack denial this weekend when I was playing on my Mesmer. Build I haven't adjusted since Prophecies. It worked perfectly fine. No Dervish or Paragon managed to survive it.

Paragons to be the end of Mesmers... heh.. right... Fear the purple cane!

[SnipiousMax]

No Dervish or Paragon managed to survive it.



What kind of losers were you playing? :p

[Terra Xin]

oh no, I used shackwrack on both the new classes, in the end, they are no different to beat. It's all about the revelation skill of the mesmer, breaking the professions down to their base, and beating them that way

[SnipiousMax]

oh no, I used shackwrack on both the new classes, in the end, they are no different to beat. It's all about the revelation skill of the mesmer, breaking the professions down to their base, and beating them that way

That's assuming that people play them like a warrior, which is not the intention. If a Paragon is geared towards dealing damage, its completely missing the point of playing a Paragon, and is at best, a secondary damage dealer. Shuting down their 'attack' ability, is really only covering 25% of a Pargon's ability. R/P's WERE primary damage dealers, and as such would be subject to shack/wrack, assuming they are not supported and they are stupid enough to attack through it.

Dervish on the other hand is another matter. Were they only able to do Physical damage through attacking with the scythe, I could see it. And no doubt you both played many many people that played them that way. But what you both apparently missed was the PBAoE DD spaming Dervishs that fueled themselves with Mysticism and CoP. They didn't even use Scythes.

Shackwrack, assumes that 1.) the person is going to be attacking constantly 2.) they have no other way of dealing damage 3.) they are unsupported. Works well on warriors and leeroy Assassins. Not so well on melee range damage dealers that don't need to attack to be effective, and ranged characters that really only attack so it looks like they are doing something.

Counter for Dervishes? Snares. If they can't get close, then they can't kill you. Counter for Paragons? Anything that attacks signets. They only have two pips of energy regen, and while Edrain hurts them, they can still retain they effectiveness with a few sigs and Adrenaline skills, but they are dependant on those skills to remain effective.

[Hella Good]

No one here is claiming that Dervishes weren't over the top- they need some tweaking and they will get a fair deal of it. The bottom line is: we will be doing the exact same thing we've always been doing and it will be just as effective as ever; which- mind you- is a bit sad- no new challenges and all, but at least we can take comfort in the rule supreme of the Mesmer class. :-)

[SnipiousMax]

...we will be doing the exact same thing we've always been doing and it will be just as effective as ever...

And warriors will still be beating people over the head with swords, Ranger's plinking people with arrows, Ele's going to counseling for their damage dealing inferiority complex, and assassins trying to not look suspicious.

That's hardly a reason not to get excited about the new classes! :) Come'on, live a little!

[Hella Good]

Mesmers have barely modified the builds being used to combat things. Just how much changed in ED, Diversion, WarHate? There is some new funky things to do (like mess around with Barbs and RI) but no dramatically different builds. I think the other professions got a little bit more dynamics from Factions, wouldn't you agree? Even when they were advertising the new Mesmer skills in Factions ANet were basically saying "and Mesmers... well, they will just stick to basics, nothing rly new here." That's what I was talking about.

I am- in fact- excited about the Dervish- I loved the idea of a melee caster. Always have (DA/AoTL Necro was a fav mess around build, and stuff like VwK Rits, PB Eles). I'm not too crazy about the Paragon (seems to me like a ranged Tactics Warrior). Neither of these positions, however, has rly much influence on my vision of more-of-the-same for Mesmers in Nightfall.

[SnipiousMax]

<snip>

I agree. They didn't really stretch the boundries of Mesmerdom did they? :(

[lightblade]

Oh no! Mesmer have way less hex than Necromancers.

Like others already said, the only thing that a mesmer need to worry about is their own kind (with a different build). And I think this is the same as Ranger.

[Jetai12]

um, mesmers also e-deny? so they dont ALWAYS use hexes

[Hella Good]

Chances are that even when ED-ing, least one hex will be involved (think Mindwrack, Diversion).

[Francis Demeules]

Hello Guys,

I have been hearing some people saying that paragons are the new anti mesmers seeinga s they have anti hex abilities. I am not sure if this is right but this is what im saying. I know the whole mesmer class isnt going to be destroyed, but will they survive the paragon?

Thx,
BanaXX

Damn yes we will survive! :D

Paragons have adrenaline based like the Warriors. Blackout can stop their shouts and remove the adrenaline from Spear's Attacks and Chants. In the meaning to resistant to conditions and hexes, they to use shout and chant, which they generally with adrenaline.

[Eragon Dragonslayer]

my new mesmer has just been made...over 100k spent on him and he isnt even lvl 4...but i doubt that any class can replace the mesmer...the mesmer rocks! and its like Francis said paragon's use adren...we have soothing images...mesmer s will prob own the paragon like they do pratically all classes.. and i will refuse to accept defeat! no new class can replace the mesmer and if one is a close contender the mesmers WILL be better than that class

[Lady Lozza]

Avarre does not come to an end, case closed!

The class with the greatest hex defence remains mesmers themselves.

lol! No I don't think Avarre does come to an end. How much xp do you have now on your mes 14 mil or so?

[Avarre]

10.3 because I stopped farming after 10. I could go for higher but there's no point spending the time :)

[Sab]

10.3 because I stopped farming after 10. I could go for higher but there's no point spending the time :)

Given up trying to beat a certain warrior? :p

[Numa Pompilius]

I still say RANGERS have the biggest overlap with paragon skills, IMO there's very little reason to run a ranger (except for the Expertise) if you can run a Paragon (and the paragon is like what we saw in the preview).

[SnipiousMax]

I still say RANGERS have the biggest overlap with paragon skills....

Only for 1/4 of the Paragon attributes. Spears vs. Bows will become a delicate issue. I really hope they don't make Marksmanship worthless.

[Hella Good]

All a Paragon is: a ranged tactics Warrior. You shouldn't compare Paragons to Rangers because apart from both being ranged, R are nrg dependent, while P are adrenal/nrg mix (same way W are). Also a spear is a 1-handed ranged weapon with shortbow range, a bow is 2-handed ranged weapon that can have a variety of different ranges, arrow flight times, and accuracy. Also a P has 2 pips like a W, not 3 like a R, and a P has a larger nrg pool. I can go on like this forever. The comparison between Rs and Ps ends with them both being ranged. Following the same logic we might as well compare Ws and Ds, which is pointless, since one is a melee fighter, the other a melee caster.

[Numa Pompilius]

Maybe. I play a ranger a lot, and in the preview event, my custom P/R build upstaged my ranger pretty heavily. He interrupted, poisoned, caused bleeding, dazed AND did axe-warrior level amounts of damage while retaining about the same self-healing and tankability as a ranger. The range wasn't much of an issue - it's not like a ranger will be firing at max range for more than one or two shots anyway - but the high firing rate & high damage capacity coupled with Tigers Fury was sweet.

I assume the paragon will be downgraded before release, but in the preview event it was a much better ranger than a ranger.

[Fantus]

Both Dervishes and Paragons will end up being quite different from what we saw in the preview weekend since many skills are going to be ner... ehm.. altered.

Expect Mesmer to shine like they always did and always will ;)

[Darcy]

IMO the people who prate about the mesmer being useless or "on the way out" have never played one long enough to appreciate their versatility. Anet would have to overpower another class to threaten mesmers.

And this is not a biased opinion. I also have a warrior, monk, ranger, and ritualist. None of them compare to my mesmer who is currently capping elites in the Southern Shiverpeaks with a few henchies.

Anet will probably never give the mesmer class skills that do more because the mesmer would then be able to solo the world in PvE.

[Terra Xin]

ooo, I can't wait for the new Mesmer skills, I hope they're good...

[Hella Good]

I doubt the 10 new elites will be any better than the Faction ones and I think we can all agree that there is perhaps 2-3 of the Faction elites that are any good, rest being mediocre. Surely, the non-elite Faction skills are pretty good but I rly want some new elites that can be the center of entirely new builds.

[NinjaKai]

I wouldn't mind some new mesmer signets for nightfall. Mesmers tend to have the best signet skills. Look at signet of humility (For some reason I always find this to be the best example of how useful signets are)